Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)

[Aragorn the King]

Can someone compare the pros and cons of CM rain dance manaphy and crocune? I'm working on a stall team and I'd like to have a win condition, not just win by status stalling and such. Just curious why I should use one over the other for whatever reason.

Suicune
- Bulkier: Manaphy's 100/100/100 defenses are great, it's just that 100/115/115 is a lot better. They let it avoid the 2hko from super effective hits at +1, while Manaphy somewhat struggles to take Thunderbolts.
- More reliable against sand: Suicune can function in sand, since its only problem with it is the chip damage. Suicune can use rest whenever it wants v. a sand team, while manaphy cannot, since it's deadweight if uses rest outside of rain.
- Not on a timer: Manaphy can only use rest up to four turns after using rain dance, while suicune can heal whenever it wants.

Manaphy
- More powerful: Suicune's Scald at +6 coming will hurt, but it can't break thinks like +6 manaphy's scald in the rain.
- Faster: Manaphy outspeeds Adamant bisharp, while suicune doesn't. Thanks to manaphy's lesser bulk, this is relatively important.
- No reliance on sleep talk: When asleep, Suciune has a 1/3 chance to use the move it wants. However, if manaphy uses rest in the rain, it heals itself from sleep on that turn, and thus doesn't rely on 1/3 chances.
- Status isn't as bothersome: suicune needs to rest to get rid of status, which isn't ideal in most scenarios. However, as long as manaphy is in rain, paralysis/burn/poison will never hurt you.

I probably missed some stuff, but that's all I can think of now. Suicune is the standard choice, but if you desire more power/speed, or if you hate sleep talk as much as i do, manaphy is also a great choice.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Suicune
- Bulkier: Manaphy's 100/100/100 defenses are great, it's just that 100/115/115 is a lot better. They let it avoid the 2hko from super effective hits at +1, while Manaphy somewhat struggles to take Thunderbolts.
- More reliable against sand: Suicune can function in sand, since its only problem with it is the chip damage. Suicune can use rest whenever it wants v. a sand team, while manaphy cannot, since it's deadweight if uses rest outside of rain.
- Not on a timer: Manaphy can only use rest up to four turns after using rain dance, while suicune can heal whenever it wants.

Manaphy
- More powerful: Suicune's Scald at +6 coming will hurt, but it can't break thinks like +6 manaphy's scald in the rain.
- Faster: Manaphy outspeeds Adamant bisharp, while suicune doesn't. Thanks to manaphy's lesser bulk, this is relatively important.
- No reliance on sleep talk: When asleep, Suciune has a 1/3 chance to use the move it wants. However, if manaphy uses rest in the rain, it heals itself from sleep on that turn, and thus doesn't rely on 1/3 chances.
- Status isn't as bothersome: suicune needs to rest to get rid of status, which isn't ideal in most scenarios. However, as long as manaphy is in rain, paralysis/burn/poison will never hurt you.

I probably missed some stuff, but that's all I can think of now. Suicune is the standard choice, but if you desire more power/speed, or if you hate sleep talk as much as i do, manaphy is also a great choice.

Thanks! Really appreciate the input ^_^

 

[TyranitarKnight]

This is just a supposition, but what woud OU be like if Mewtwo was allowed in OU (without Mega Stones) for a week or two? Would it kill stall for good?

 

[mootl33t]

Probably some limitation with Dream World (Sap Sipper being a DW ability, or Whirlpool being a DW only move or something like that).

Ow..that is the same reason I can't use sap sipper + whirlpool on miltank. ty

 

[garchomp11111]

Can anyone show their favourite offensive cores?Explanation aboit the core and sets are needed.

 

[Prinz]

Just give a look at that thread : http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/good-cores-v2.3505075/

 

[WideTomato]

This is just a supposition, but what woud OU be like if Mewtwo was allowed in OU (without Mega Stones) for a week or two? Would it kill stall for good?

It would kill everything. With base 130 speed it Outspeeds almost the entire ou metagame. It hits 12 types super effectively, and the rest, with the exception of psychic is hit neutral with its STAB move. It would take over the meta, it's uncountedable and even uncheckable for almost every pokemon!

 

[Solsar]

I looked around for a while trying to find the best place to say this but it seemed like this was the best place, I apologize in advance if it isn't. The Mega-Gengar analysis on the XY Strategy Pokédex falsely claims that it is able to learn Sludge Wave. However after looking around for quite a while I have realized it cannot learn it and there is no way for it to learn it, short of hacking.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I looked around for a while trying to find the best place to say this but it seemed like this was the best place, I apologize in advance if it isn't. The Mega-Gengar analysis on the XY Strategy Pokédex falsely claims that it is able to learn Sludge Wave. However after looking around for quite a while I have realized it cannot learn it and there is no way for it to learn it, short of hacking.

Gastly was learn able to learn Sludge Wave due to the B/W Dream World. Since it was taken iirc, I can see why you'd come to that conclusion, but it was, and still is, a viable and legal option for Gengar.

 

[WideTomato]

I looked around for a while trying to find the best place to say this but it seemed like this was the best place, I apologize in advance if it isn't. The Mega-Gengar analysis on the XY Strategy Pokédex falsely claims that it is able to learn Sludge Wave. However after looking around for quite a while I have realized it cannot learn it and there is no way for it to learn it, short of hacking.

You can, from a dream world gastly n_n

 

[Solsar]

Gastly was learn able to learn Sludge Wave due to the B/W Dream World. Since it was taken iirc, I can see why you'd come to that conclusion, but it was, and still is, a viable and legal option for Gengar.

Ok thank-you, I thought I was going crazy for the longest time.

 

[Mega Ampharos]

On the XY OU Viability Ranking Thread, what are blacklisted Pokemon and why are some Pokemon blacklisted?

 

[Aragorn the King]

On the XY OU Viability Ranking Thread, what are blacklisted Pokemon and why are some Pokemon blacklisted?

• Florges is 99% outclassed by Clefable and Sylveon, so when people try to rank it, discussion gets terrible. Thus it's blacklisted.

• Donphan isn't outclassed by anything, but it's a very mediocre mon with no completely defined niche, and is thus unranked. For some reason people insisted on ranking it, so it was blacklisted to avoid terrible discussion.

• Heliolisk likewise isn't 100% outclassed, but it isn't worth ranking. Someone insisted on it being ranked, so it was blacklisted to prevent him + others from being dumb.

• Darmanitan is 99% outclassed by Charizard-X, Victini, and Entei, and yet the same dude insisted on it being ranked, so it was blacklisted to prevent him + others from being dumb.

 

[RyanKoopa]

Good checks&counters to Azumarill on a HO team?

 

[boltsandbombers]

Good checks&counters to Azumarill on a HO team?

Offensive mega venusaur serves as good glue for sponging up hits on HO, as well as stopping azumarill pretty well. Thundurus can greatly hinder azu with prankster t wave if it's necessary. Kyurem black can usually take an aqua jet and deal massive damage with fusion bolt, but can't switch in due to play rough.

 

[Celticpride]

Good checks&counters to Azumarill on a HO team?

Second Mega Venusaur. It's one of the few things that can take a hit from standard BD Azu, assuming it's not running something odd like Return. Ferrothorn is another one, but Superpower is a somewhat frequent option on some Azumarills. Physically defensive Tentacruel could be an option that also provides spin support. Tentacruel does have a somewhat rough time in OU, but it could work if you only need an Azu check and spin support.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Second Mega Venusaur. It's one of the few things that can take a hit from standard BD Azu, assuming it's not running something odd like Return. Ferrothorn is another one, but Superpower is a somewhat frequent option on some Azumarills. Physically defensive Tentacruel could be an option that also provides spin support. Tentacruel does have a somewhat rough time in OU, but it could work if you only need an Azu check and spin support.

Ferrothorn really doesn't belong on a hyper offense team IMO. It works best on stall, balance, or defensive teams. Yes, it hard counters belly drum azumarill, but not on that playstyle.

 

[Celticpride]

Ferrothorn really doesn't belong on a hyper offense team IMO. It works best on stall, balance, or defensive teams. Yes, it hard counters belly drum azumarill, but not on that playstyle.

Completely missed the HO part. Mega Venusaur doesn't really fit either. Most HO mons are too frail to take more then one hit from Azu, so you're probably left with a series of checks based on the set. Toxicroak could be a solid check. It has decent speed, can absorb every Aqua Jet and Waterfall, and has strong Poison STAB. Not many HO OU mons can reliably switch into Azu.

 

[Apeirohaon]

On the XY OU Viability Ranking Thread, what are blacklisted Pokemon and why are some Pokemon blacklisted?

alexwolf answered the near-same question a few pages back:

Every blacklisted Pokemon is there because besides of not being good enough to get a rank, its mention sparks shitty discussions constantly. The conclusion reached list is for Pokemon that have reached their ideal ranking decisively. Mantine got there because it made the thread lose focus, as a lot of people were asking why it was ranked and similar stuff, derailing the thread from more important discussion points. Once the metagame settles down, you can expect to see more Pokemon in this list.

Good checks&counters to Azumarill on a HO team?

Hyper Offense doesn't really check or counter things, and isn't supposed to most of the time. It's generally just "set up hazards, wallbreak/lure the things you need down, and sweep with your sweeper".
Although if you really want a azu check on an offensive team, rotom-w can check it, venu can usually check/counter it, thundy can hinder it with t-wave, ferro can wall it pretty well (it can set hazards for offensive, not too bad), and some more obscure things like the aforementioned toxicroak

 

[Gr3gory]

how long is it until the next test?

 

[D-Ssain]

how long is it until the next test?

I think Haunter said a couple of weeks. The time between Aegi and Mawile tests was really short so I'm assuming the Council will want to let the meta settle a little bit.

 

[Celticpride]

Figure I'll drop this here before I go off and build a whole team around it, anyone here think Tyraniboah could be revived? Was thinking about using Mega TTar, to keep up with power creep.

 

[Famicom3DS]

Is it allowed to use unreleased megas and items in OU on X/Y?

 

[s_aman]

Is it allowed to use unreleased megas and items in OU on X/Y?

unfortunately no ;-;

 

[Midtek]

Figure I'll drop this here before I go off and build a whole team around it, anyone here think Tyraniboah could be revived? Was thinking about using Mega TTar, to keep up with power creep.

Tyraniboah, IIRC, was used in gen 3 and was essentially just a mixed Tyranitar set: Dark Pulse/Flamethrower/Focus Punch/Substitute. Alternatives were Tbolt instead of Flamethrower or Crunch instead of Dark Pulse. The EVs were 252 HP and then some mix of Atk, SpA, and Spe. Sub-Punch was meant specifically for Blissey and Tbolt/Flamethrower was meant for Steel-types like Jirachi, Skarmory, Scizor, Magnezone, Forretress, and Bronzong. (This was a time when SkarmBliss was a common defensive core. Salamence was also in Ubers I think.)

I don't really think such a set would work in XY OU. For one, if you plan on using Mega-Ttar, then he's best used as a DDer since he becomes one of the most powerful sweepers in the metagame. Also, the set just targets pokemon that are no longer threats or as common as they once were, or are now checked/countered by better pokemon. The ADV OU metagame was much different. (As an example of how different it was, I think the only dragon in the meta was Flygon since Salamence and Lati twins were banned to Ubers.) The set will also struggle with Fairy-types since they resist both Dark and Fighting. The filler Flamethrower/Tbolt would have to serve as coverage, and even AV Azumarill counters the set quite well:

176+ SpA Tyranitar Thunderbolt vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 102-120 (29.5 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So AV Azumarill would be able to hard switch in and win (Play Rough then Aqua Jet), even if you run Tbolt. (The next best option is Focus Punch, which has a 31.3% to 4HKO.)