Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Jaroda]

No you're right. I said Greninja, but I meant the next one down which would me Mega Manectric. Good catch.

Personally I do run max speed, because I don't find the extra HP helps terribly. But fact is many people still choose not to. Whatever, just means my Sceptile outspeeds there's and gets the Dragon Pulse KO.

 

[Srn]

Well the thing with that is you have to literally run max speed to outspeed timid sceptile at +1 and have to run 240 atk EVs to OHKO Sceptile at +1 with jolly nature so you have to sacrifice some bulk just to take on 1 more mon, I dont think its worth it but that's just my opinion.

You don't just take on one more mon lol, you take on mega sceptile, mega lopunny, mega beedrill, adamant scarf lando-t, adamant mega aerodactyl, and modest Mega zam all for sacrificing a little power; it's DEFINITELY worth running Jolly max speed now.
Besides, its not as if there are any key hits you survive with some extra hp evs, and you're still very bulky with no investment.

 

[Solar4lyfe]

I think I speak for everybody when I say I'm extremely pleased that the OU Council banned Mega Salamence and in doing so, Pokémon is not only more fun, many Pokémon themselves have become more viable.

Mega Sceptile; I've noticed more Mega Sceptile's and this is with good reason, that monstrous Speed (no paralyze either) with an equally good Special Attack is a scary sight on the OU field. I could see this one moving up to the A rank, but I'm not completely sure yet, a 4x weakness to Ice can be a crippling problem.

Mega Altaria; Mega Altaria's great typing, good offenses and good defenses make it a worthy Pokémon of your mega slot, you wouldn't want one of your dragons to take a Pixilate Hyper Voice from this guy/gal. An immunity to Dragon is a big plus as well.

Mega Charizard X; Mega Charizard X is once again one of the best Dragon Dancers in the entire game, Mega Gyarados and Mega Altaria are also verg potent Dragon Dancers, though all 3 fill different team rolls (Mega Gyarados can fill basically the same role, albeit not quite as fast and with different typing.) While the Speed creep has hurt many XY Mega Evolutions, Mega Charizard X is unfazed by this. After a single Dragon Dance, Mega Charizard X's base Attack stat soars to a more-than-capable 195 and its speed hits the healthy base 150. Only a select few Scarfed Pokémon can outspeed and OHKO this monster. If Mega Charizard X is allowed to set-up, even speed demons like Timid Mega Sceptile can't outspeed it AS LONG AS Sceptile Mega Evolved that turn, a Modest one is outsped regardless. Mega Charizard X can safely sit in the S rank yet again.

Mega Gyarados; We FINALLY have access to a great Dark STAB move and with Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados has become a true monster in the OU meta. I'm glad to see Gyarados do as well as I've always wanted it to.

Dragalge; This doesn't really have much to do with Mega Salamence being banned, but it should have more attention. Dragalge is a very capable Pokémon in the OU as of ORAS due to its hidden ability Adabtability finally being obtainable, and a neutrality to Fairy helps too. I haven't seen enough use to justify a rank as of now, but I can't see it going any lower than a B, we finally have a useful Poison type Pokémon that hits hard.

 

[wolfenstein]

As an avid user of mega Gyarados myself, I can confirm that Jolly max speed mega gyara is the best if you don't want to get smacked by sceptile, beedrill and lopunny to name a few. It's already bulky as hell and has a great typing so there is no reason to invest in bulk, and I'm pretty sure there isn't a non super effective hit that OHKO's gyara anyway. Anyway to justify it's ranking, I can definitely see mega Gyara pushing for A+ rank. It just sets up on so much standard things in the tier and beats majority of the new megas as said above, and we all know how amazing this thing's stats are, and dragon dance makes it a complete monster that is actually hard to revenge kill, even with priority. It's not quite on charizard X level in terms of setting up and sweeping, but it's damn close and as such I think it should go to A+

In fact, I'm pretty sure MGyarados sets up on more of the new megas than Charizard X, so that's cool.

 

[Snowmonkey24]

Why is Mega Aerodactyl so highly ranked?

 

[heritage]

Why is Mega Aerodactyl so highly ranked?

It outspeeds a lot of the meta and has the power to back it up. It's one of the few things that can check Greninja, since it outspeeds and OHKO's after Stealth Rocks. (That's why I think it's up there, at least. I might be wrong.)
I personally think it should be at a lower ranking too, but I understand why it's up there.

 

[Karxrida]

It outspeeds a lot of the meta and has the power to back it up. It's one of the few things that can check Greninja, since it outspeeds and OHKO's after Stealth Rocks. (That's why I think it's up there, at least. I might be wrong.)
I personally think it should be at a lower ranking too, but I understand why it's up there.

It's also one of the best offensive Birdspam checks, has a great movepool that lets it beat many of the new Megas, and is pretty anti-meta in general.

EDIT: Oh look, 1800 posts.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

...Mega Charizard X is once again the best Dragon Dancer in the entire game...

sorry to burst your bubble, but this title belongs to altaria now

 

[Karxrida]

sorry to burst your bubble, but this title belongs to altaria now

Zard X is stronger, Altaria is bulkier. I wouldn't say either is the best regardless, especially since Mega Gyarados has Crunch now.

 

[Jaroda]

It's a tough call between Char X and Altaria. Both have phenomenal typing, but Altaria's is better defensively and Charizard's is better offensively. Charizard is immune to burn but is weak to Stealth Rock. Altaria can bypass Substitutes with Hyper Voice. Both have Roost. Charizard has a higher initial speed, but Altaria can get by with mono STAB for coverage if it wanted. Altaria is weak to Bullet Punch, Charizard has no priority weakness. Altaria is better capable of going mixed.

Honestly you can't go wrong picking either, they're both phenomenal and have numerous interchangeable benefits.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

I'm nominating Mega Gyarados for A+ rank. MeGyarados beats almost all the new megas with this set I've been using:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 88 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Metagross: The safest play is to intimidate it then mega evolve and d-dance up, then OHKO with crunch. Brick break/thunderpunch is not even a 2HKO after intimidate if it is jolly.

Remember that Gross had Clear body before mega evolving, and I have a few calcs to keep in mind:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 294-346 (83.2 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 194-230 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 206-244 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 384-456 (108.7 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Simply put, MegaShrimp does not beat MegaGross unless you're against AgilityGross or low ladder players, as Hammer Arm is super common on 4atk and I've seen quite a few T-punch and Grass knot ones aswell.

I also support Houndoom for B, It is pretty cool atm and is a great answer to stall for Offensive teams, while not becoming deadweight against other offensive teams because of that lovely base 115 speed. It also has a few niche tools which can come in handy, as Sludge bomb deals with Azu and M-altaria, D-Bond gives you a free kill, HP Ice helps with dragons in general, Flame charge gives you an edge over faster mons and scarfers like Damaged ScarfChomp and Scarf Lando and lets not forget Taunt being Taunt.

 

[Solar4lyfe]

sorry to burst your bubble, but this title belongs to altaria now

Base 80 Speed says otherwise. Mega Charizard X has a more offensive typing in my opinion anyways. Either way, I actually prefer the Special Attacking Altaria, Hyper Voice + Dragon Pulse is potent when used correctly. Honestly the top two Dragon Dancers imo are Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados, they're much better offensively with superior offensive typing to match. I also expect many more Dragalges due to Adaptability, which will cause serious problems for Mega Altaria. I'm not saying Mega Charizard X is perfect, but it's not so easy to dismiss his top rank in the Dragon Dance department, his +1 Flare Blitz will annihilate most of the meta. I prefer using Mega Altaria as a Defensive Pokémon, because it obviously does that better.

 

[wolfenstein]

Remember that Gross had Clear body before mega evolving, and I have a few calcs to keep in mind:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 294-346 (83.2 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 194-230 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 206-244 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 384-456 (108.7 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Simply put, MegaShrimp does not beat MegaGross unless you're against AgilityGross or low ladder players, as Hammer Arm is super common on 4atk and I've seen quite a few T-punch and Grass knot ones aswell.

I also support Houndoom for B, It is pretty cool atm and is a great answer to stall for Offensive teams, while not becoming deadweight against other offensive teams because of that lovely base 115 speed. It also has a few niche tools which can come in handy, as Sludge bomb deals with Azu and M-altaria, D-Bond gives you a free kill, HP Ice helps with dragons in general, Flame charge gives you an edge over faster mons and scarfers like Damaged ScarfChomp and Scarf Lando and lets not forget Taunt being Taunt.

Did you take into account how much Gyarados can do back with crunch at +1? .-. if it can ohko, it beats metagross.

 

[Karxrida]

I don't know man, Mega Gyarados is definitely scary but Mega Charizard X has Tough Claws and an immunity to Burn. It also doesn't have an annoying weakness to Fairy like the other two. That Burn immunity may actually be the deciding factor, I cannot tell you how annoying Rotom-W is for the other two.

Mega Gyarados runs Taunt or Substitute so burns aren't a problem, plus +1 Crunch can 2HKO.

 

[Solar4lyfe]

Mega Gyarados runs Taunt or Substitute so burns aren't a problem, plus +1 Crunch can 2HKO.

That's a good point actually, thanks for the input. I definitely think those two are top choices for DDers, it really depends on personal preference. Altaria is a different Pokémon, more of a defensive one imo, I'd use the other two as DDers more comfortably if I'm being completely honest.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Did you take into account how much Gyarados can do back with crunch at +1? .-. if it can ohko, it beats metagross.

Just showing that Megashrimp does not 100% beat MegaGross, something which it seemed that Rustyy implied, as it has next to no way of switching in (Also figured out that AgilityGross often run Hammer arm too, so it cannot switchin to that either.)

 

[Solar4lyfe]

Just showing that Megashrimp does not 100% beat MegaGross, something which it seemed that Rustyy implied, as it has next to no way of switching in (Also figured out that AgilityGross often run Hammer arm too, so it cannot switchin to that either.)

While I agree that Mega Gyarados is by no means the definite winner, both can only emerge victorious under certain, different situations. Neither is perfect, and both have their own drawbacks, like most other Pokémon.

 

[Jaroda]

If Metagross is megavolved first, then normal Gyarados gets an Intimidate off and is immune to Earthquake, resists Hammer Arm and Meteor Mash, and is neutral to Grass Knot. Gyarados is actually probably better off staying in that form in that case. This is a way more situational match up than you would expect, but in general Gyarados has the advantage with his typing, Intimidate and STAB Crunch. It largely depends on what Metagross runs to come out on top

 

[paradeschool]

Mega Glalie C ---> B

Yeah, dumb-sounding at first, but think about it. Its priority in Ice Shard can decimate any occasional Mence, and with decent setup it can sweep with Refrigerate Return and Earthquake. Also, dat Explosion tho. The Explosion alone makes t an extremely potent wallbreaker for pretty much anything. As long as they don't resist Ice, Mega Glalie's Explosion can get past pretty much ALL fully invested defensive walls. Ferrothorn is almost to a faint.

AND it can set up Spikes? WHA...

 

[Jaroda]

Salamence is banned so that's irrelevant. Anyway I posted a much more in depth response a few pages back and even I only thought it should go to C+ for now.

 

[Rustyy]

Remember that Gross had Clear body before mega evolving, and I have a few calcs to keep in mind:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 294-346 (83.2 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 194-230 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 206-244 (58.3 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 384-456 (108.7 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Simply put, MegaShrimp does not beat MegaGross unless you're against AgilityGross or low ladder players, as Hammer Arm is super common on 4atk and I've seen quite a few T-punch and Grass knot ones aswell.

I also support Houndoom for B, It is pretty cool atm and is a great answer to stall for Offensive teams, while not becoming deadweight against other offensive teams because of that lovely base 115 speed. It also has a few niche tools which can come in handy, as Sludge bomb deals with Azu and M-altaria, D-Bond gives you a free kill, HP Ice helps with dragons in general, Flame charge gives you an edge over faster mons and scarfers like Damaged ScarfChomp and Scarf Lando and lets not forget Taunt being Taunt.

I see your point, Megagross would win in a straight up 1v1, but I can use your logic against you because only people low on the ladder would mega-evolve their Gyarados before Megagross comes in. In a real battle, Gyarados would come in after Megagross gets a kill to fire off an intimidate so he can set up.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Base 80 Speed says otherwise. Mega Charizard X has a more offensive typing in my opinion anyways. Either way, I actually prefer the Special Attacking Altaria, Hyper Voice + Dragon Pulse is potent when used correctly. Honestly the top two Dragon Dancers imo are Mega Charizard X and Mega Gyarados, they're much better offensively with superior offensive typing to match. I also expect many more Dragalges due to Adaptability, which will cause serious problems for Mega Altaria. I'm not saying Mega Charizard X is perfect, but it's not so easy to dismiss his top rank in the Dragon Dance department, his +1 Flare Blitz will annihilate most of the meta. I prefer using Mega Altaria as a Defensive Pokémon, because it obviously does that better.

Base 80 speed hardly matters when you have the bulk to get off multiple dances, and the versatility to put the opponent in two minds as to which 'counter' to switch in. The burn immunity is handy, but given the proliferation of DD Facade right now, you find opponents are hesitant to try burning Altaria. Zard X has its distinct advantages, but Mega Alt simply has a much easier time coming in and boosting - especially in the current meta, where Zard X has to worry about being walled by defensive M-Alt variants and Megabros. Which is 'better' depends on your team's composition.

Dragalge causing problems for Mega Alt is a laugh, when Mega Alt is faster, OHKOs at +1 with Return or Earthquake, and only fears a predicted Sludge Bomb on the switch. The -only- situation in which Dragalge would be even remotely threatening to M-Altaria is if Trick Room were in play.

 

[Kurona]

It's not a laugh, im talking about a switch in.

Why would Altaria ever switch into Dragalge?

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

It's not a laugh, im

talking about a switch in. Dragalge can definitely cause problems in certain situations. Also, that's part of what makes Megazard X a better Dragon Dancer, it only needs one DD and most Pokémon are ruined. Mega Altaria doesn't have that advantage, and although it's bulkier, that by no means makes it better because as I said, one could use a +2 and one really only needs a +1. Mega Altaria also gets walled by the now common Mega Metagross who is faster without a +1, while Mega Charizard X has Flare Blitz on its side.

And Zard X gets walled by the common Mega Slowbro and defensive Mega Altaria variants - what's the point?

Further, re: Dragalge - neither Zard X -nor- Altaria want to switch into it, since it has the capability of OHKOing both Pokemon.

 

[Karxrida]

And Zard X gets walled by the common Mega Slowbro and defensive Mega Altaria variants - what's the point?

It can theoretically get past both if it wanted. A +2 Outrage will always 2HKO Mega Bro while +2 Iron Tail can OHKO Mega Altaria after Rocks (assuming Altaria takes the damage before Mega Evolving).

EDIT: Forgot to give Altaria HP Investment, but +2 Iron Tail (or even Flare Blitz) can potentially muscle past variants that aren't fully invested in bulk.