And no Spore. Not saying it's bad, but that's a really poor comparison given Toxic Heal and Spore are the two things that make Toxicheal Breloom used at all.Virizion is currently untested in OU; I wouldn't be surprised if it follows the footsteps of Cobalion, and go from untested to C+ or something; it's basically a SpDef Toxic Heal Breloom with more SpDef/Speed and no Toxic Heal.
Psyshock is very, very commong on MegaBro from what I've seen... On non CroBro anyway, it's usually Scald / Ice Beam / Psyshock | Fire-type move / Slack Off, right? Verizion is not only weak to Psyshock AND Ice Beam, but Psyshock doesn't care about how many Calm Minds Veriz has and hits its weaker Defense. I don't see how Verizion is really a counter at all... Also, with Chesnaught and Breloom filling the "cool Grass/Fighting type" niche, Verizion doesn't have even a very good niche to fill... Cool Pokemon, but not really that great in OU; opportunity cost is too great.LO/CB Black Kyurem and CM Virizion deal with mega slowbro pretty easily, as does Mega Charizard Y
We're only discussing the B rank and anything above right now.I want to nominate Diancie to go up from C- to C+. Apart from steel type moves, it's really, really hard to OHKO, and it has rocks and screens it can set up. While it isn't designed to be an attacker, it has two reliable STABs that cover plenty of important stuff. For example, Gren dies if it switches in on Moonblast, and Talonflame loses 100% of the time to Diamond Storm. Speaking of Diamond Storm, after a few boosts it becomes really hard to beat on the physical side if your opponent lacks Bisharp, Megagross or the rare and subpar flash cannon Heatran.
Also, Mega-Amp should move up to B-. Remember all the Rampardos hype in gen 4? This is a special Rampardos with bulk, a better offensive and defensive typing, doesn't care about burn or paralysis and has good coverage. In raw power it fails to stallbreak, but it rips apart so much of offensive teams after a single turn of set up. Oh, and did I mention that it can't be thunder waved by Thundurus or revenge killed by Talonflame? B- for Mega-Amp.
I think you are missing the point of why Mega Zam is where it is. It's not a stallbreaker by any means, and it doesn't break down walls by itself either. It's in B+ because it outspeeds the entire unScarfed meta and can revenge Weather sweepers. If anything it got more valuable in ORAS because it can take on Beedrill, Sceptile and Lopunny on addition to everything in could in XY. Dropping Zam for it's loss of stallbreaking ability isn't the correct course of action imo, if anything the case for it staying where it is now is stronger due to it's value against HO and the resurgence in Rain teams.I don't usually post much in this thread but I think I'll make an exception
Alakazam (Mega): With the advent of Mega Sableye, this thing got quite a bit worse vs stall, as we all know. It can technically get past both Chansey and Sableye with a moveset of CM / Dazzling Gleam / Psyshock / Focus Blast but dropping Shadow Ball means that psychic types will wall it. It gained utility against offense with all the new super-fast stuff running around, but let's not forget that it has to run Timid to actually perform as a revenge killer against the new threats, which means it suffers from an unpleasant drop of power. So I'd say this thing has become slightly worse overall with ORAS. It can drop to B imo, but I don't mind if it stays B+
Diancie can lose to +2 Talonflame if it misses one diamond storm and has some chip damage.I want to nominate Diancie to go up from C- to C+. Apart from steel type moves, it's really, really hard to OHKO, and it has rocks and screens it can set up. While it isn't designed to be an attacker, it has two reliable STABs that cover plenty of important stuff. For example, Gren dies if it switches in on Moonblast, and Talonflame loses 100% of the time to Diamond Storm. Speaking of Diamond Storm, after a few boosts it becomes really hard to beat on the physical side if your opponent lacks Bisharp, Megagross or the rare and subpar flash cannon Heatran.
Also, Mega-Amp should move up to B-. Remember all the Rampardos hype in gen 4? This is a special Rampardos with bulk, a better offensive and defensive typing, doesn't care about burn or paralysis and has good coverage. In raw power it fails to stallbreak, but it rips apart so much of offensive teams after a single turn of set up. Oh, and did I mention that it can't be thunder waved by Thundurus or revenge killed by Talonflame? B- for Mega-Amp.
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryA couple of nominations.
B --> B+ / A-
Improved in ORAS. CB Bullet Punch OHKOes common Pokemon like Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria lacking defensive investment, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Beedrill, and Gengar and deals a large amount of damage to Mega Gallade, Latios, Latias, and Mega Sceptile. U-Turn and Pursuit are great tools to capitalize on the large amount of switches scizor forces, allowing scizor to escape from its counters and create mind games with pokemon such as Mega Gardevoir, mega Alakazam, Greninja, Beedrill, etc. respectively. It also has a couple of other viable sets such as Bulky and offensive SD.
B --> B-
Mega Latios isn't terrible, but it has a number of flaws that push it down to B- Rank in my opinion. One of Latios's is biggest advantages over Latias is its extra firepower. However Mega Latios does not have this advantage at all as it pretty much hits just as hard as LO Latias and still carries most disadvantages that Latios has over Latias along with an absurd amount of opportunity cost. I guess offensive Calm Mind and lack of LO recoil are two advantages it has over Regular Latios and Latias, but I really don't think that's enough to keep it in B.
It doesn't really make sense when everything needs to be taken into account with each other in how they fair in the meta as a whole. Making two lists is jut unrealistic and that would be like making two ladders since you're basically representing different metagames. Unless I'm missing your point though.I feel like there should 2 different tier section where one is for the MEGA and one for the rest.
The amount of oppurtunities that you get to sweep with Protean megazam are absurd.just something i wanted to say
Stay at B+
Mega Alakazam is actually really fun to use. It has good offensive stats, and is amazing at outspeeding the majority of all the new mega evolutions, which is absolutely great, considering it holds one of the best Speed tiers right now, beating the common 110 Speed tier and even outspeeding Greninja. This, itself, is enough to warrant a high ranking. It hits reasonably hard - a bit outdamaged by its LO mega form, but that's not too major - and it also has the right coverage, in Focus Blast and Shadow Ball, not to mention that STAB Psyshock / Psychic are really strong.
Mega Alakazam also is one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that can outspeed 252+ Mega Altaria after a Dragon Dance, I'd say that's very major and in itself warrants a high rank.
Of course, this isn't a bad of good things given that mega alakazam loses to priority and heavily relies on OHKOing the opponent but I also want to mention how great and underrated its ability is. With trace, you copy sand rush from excadrill, protean from greninja, and even levitate from latios. These seem like gimmicks, but i have used this to my advantage and have won multiple games because of these.
These are all very basic things, but the combination of high Special Attack and high Speed is an easy B+ rank in my mind.
What do you mean with LO mega form? If you are Mega you CANT carry LO.just something i wanted to say
Stay at B+
Mega Alakazam is actually really fun to use. It has good offensive stats, and is amazing at outspeeding the majority of all the new mega evolutions, which is absolutely great, considering it holds one of the best Speed tiers right now, beating the common 110 Speed tier and even outspeeding Greninja. This, itself, is enough to warrant a high ranking. It hits reasonably hard - a bit outdamaged by its LO mega form, but that's not too major - and it also has the right coverage, in Focus Blast and Shadow Ball, not to mention that STAB Psyshock / Psychic are really strong.
Mega Alakazam also is one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that can outspeed 252+ Mega Altaria after a Dragon Dance, I'd say that's very major and in itself warrants a high rank.
Of course, this isn't a bad of good things given that mega alakazam loses to priority and heavily relies on OHKOing the opponent but I also want to mention how great and underrated its ability is. With trace, you copy sand rush from excadrill, protean from greninja, and even levitate from latios. These seem like gimmicks, but i have used this to my advantage and have won multiple games because of these.
These are all very basic things, but the combination of high Special Attack and high Speed is an easy B+ rank in my mind.
Typo D:What do you mean with LO mega form? If you are Mega you CANT carry LO.
I'll repeat why Mamoswine drop? Is the best Ice pokemon in all the whole game, I don't know why drop him...I might've missed it, but why exactly did Mamoswine drop? While some new megas threated it?
Mamoswine dropped because its lead set got worse, as Mega Sableye hard counters it, and Mega Lopunny can also anti-lead Mamoswine with Fake Out + HJK. This basically leaves Mamoswine with only one effective set, the all out attacker.I'll repeat why Mamoswine drop? Is the best Ice pokemon in all the whole game, I don't know why drop him...
Gyarados can't set up on Greninja because it gets 2HKOd by multiple moves.Ok I realize that I've been absent from OU for a while, but someone is going to have to explain to me what Gyarados is doing in B+ while Mega Aerodactyl and Manaphy are sitting pretty in A-. We're talking about one of the most amazing sweepers in the tier with the ability to set up on the broken frog and crush offensive teams in Moxie-induced sweeps, or set up on Ferrothorn without Power Whip and have them never be able to break your sub with Intimidate. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. With Intimidate, you set up on Ferrothorn and it can't break your sub. How amazing is that? A Pokemon that gets a free sub and boost off one of the most common switch-ins to its mega forme. Not to mention the ability to gain 12% of your health back at any time thanks to Bounce + Leftovers. But the thing that makes Gyarados so good is how splashable it is. It checks Keldeo, Greninja, Landorus, Heatran, Mega Gallade, and that's just with the lefties DD set. If moxie sets get a free turn, you may as well click x because Gyarados is going to sweep you. The only thing that is even kind of a problem for Gyarados is the rise in Rotom-W's viability. But even then, against sub sets, it is forced to keep taking rocks damage and potentially Waterfall/Bounce damage since its only move to hit you forces it to switch out. So yeah please move Gyarados to at least A- if not A right next to its Mega.
what he means is that gyarados can come in on a revenge kill, set up, and sweep from there.Gyarados can't set up on Greninja because it gets 2HKOd by multiple moves.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 218-257 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 247-292 (69.9 - 82.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 244 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 165-195 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
A) 4/10 Greninjas run grass knot for suicune. (Trust me, my suicune always gets fucked by these on the ladder.)Offensive spreads can setup at least once and KO anyway. Defensive (specially) spreads always avoid the 2hko.
How many ninjas run grass knot?
Who runs physical sets?
Why don't you calc for the same spread or is it a 12 speed ev ninja?
Ok, but don't you have to sacrifice a Pokemon to do that? That would be a pretty high cost for a Pokemon who's sweep is stopped by the fastest megas even at +1, he's outsped by the base 150+ megas if he's running jolly and the base 145+ if he's running adamant.what he means is that gyarados can come in on a revenge kill, set up, and sweep from there.
But not every team have an Mega Lopunny or Mega Sableye, That happen only in that "situational" cases, Also I din't see a Mega Lopunny with Fake Out + HJK, the set that I always see is HJK, Return, HW, AND IceP... you can build your team to cover that Fake Out + HJK with a simple "Protect" and retain intact the Focus Sash, In any case thanks by the answer...Mamoswine dropped because its lead set got worse, as Mega Sableye hard counters it, and Mega Lopunny can also anti-lead Mamoswine with Fake Out + HJK. This basically leaves Mamoswine with only one effective set, the all out attacker.