Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[Valmanway]

Hmm... These rankings seem really good. Its a bit hard to rank things while we are in suspect, too :p.

The more I look at it, however, I just feel like Weavile should be put to B+. Having little switchins, this guy is a true monster. It's one of the most anti meta mons we ever got. Dark/Fight coverage is godly itself, now pair that shit with Ice? Basically every anti meta mon is Ice Type, and Weavile is no short of that. Of course, its weak against basically every form of Priority, but it also has priority itself, making it a great revenge killer and a great "last resort" tactic. Knock Off and Low Kick combine with support and the ability to check basically every Bulky Steel. Easily is Offense's bane after Priority is handled. It has a few checks/counters here and there, but this is overshadowed because you can form cores to stop this flaw. This guy defines a High B ranked mon imo.

You're kind of overselling Weavile's offensive abilities here. There are a ton of offensive and defensive switch-ins, such as Keldeo, Mega Sableye, Azumarill, Clefable, Mega Slowbro, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Klefki, Skarmory, Mega Swampert, Quagsire, and Suicune, and most of them can either stall out Weavile by taking advantage of its Life Orb recoil or can cleanly KO it. But those were just counters that could take its attacks, and there are so many checks that can force Weavile out, such as Bullet Punch Mega Metagross, Mega Charizard X, Mega Diancie, Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Mega Lopunny, offensive Talonflame, Thundurus, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Gallade, Mega Manectric, and Gyarados before Mega Evolving, just to name everything from S to A-. Weavile also needs a good deal of team support to fix its flaws, such as hazard removal, a wall/stallbreaker, possibly a U-turn/Volt Switch user to get a safe switch, and defensive Pokemon that can take repeated hits for it. I'll admit that Weavile's really good at revenge killing and late-game sweeping, and getting the right team support can make Weavile seem like a monster, but the amount of team support it needs is a little much for a B+ nomination. I think Weavile is just fine chilling with Conkeldurr and co. in B.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Ok so in response to Rainbow + yeah I agree that Mega Absol is sort of anti-meta rn, and at +2 it beats all of the Pokemon residing in S and A bar Azumarill, Lopunny, Mega Slowbro and Bisharp (unless running Superpower) The problem with Absol however is that it can't setup on anything. Ferrothorn OHKOs with Gyro Ball, Skarmory's BB takes a nice chunk away, Sableye's Foul Play OHKOs at +2 etc, the only things it can set-up on are stuff like choice-locked Psychics/Ghosts, which are nonexistent bar Gothitelle, scarf Latios and the occasional Specs/scarf gengar, as well as passive stuff like Chansey. Thats it. Absol is a 'mon that is incredibly underrated for good reason: it's high risk but high reward.

The mixed set is decent I guess, but lacks the power of SD Absol wishes it had using this set. I've only used it like a few times so I don't have the most experience with it.

TL;DR Keep Absol in C, the meta is unkind to it and yeah as I said extremely high risk and high opportunity cost really do stop Absol from moving up, much less being a top-tier threat.

 

[Kurona]

What facilitated a move down for Mega Scizor from A+ to A? Not sure how long ago this happened but it... doesn't seem quite right. There doesn't seem to be anything that made it particularly worse in ORAS aside from maybe opportunity cost, it can still run it's large and varied pool of sets efficiently, and hell, Magnezone got less common and M-Sciz counters many of the new threats; even being the only true counter to Mega Metagross. Honestly thinking it should go back to A+.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

I really don't know, Mega Sciz seems to be as good as ever, countering Megagross nicely. The only reason I could think of might be popularity of subcm keldeo, though scizor was a+ rank in xy and keldeo was everywhere, popularity of both zards as well as bulky altaria with fire blast. Tbh I'd like to see Scizor back in a+, great typing, great priority, great offenses, reliable recovery, as well as the ability to revenge kill fairies like altaria and diancie, and unless someone comes up with a valid reason I guess A+ seems about right.

 

[AM]

Ok let me speak on some of these because the circular arguments and the overselling of some mons is sort of baffling for me.

What facilitated a move down for Mega Scizor from A+ to A? Not sure how long ago this happened but it... doesn't seem quite right. There doesn't seem to be anything that made it particularly worse in ORAS aside from maybe opportunity cost, it can still run it's large and varied pool of sets efficiently, and hell, Magnezone got less common and M-Sciz counters many of the new threats; even being the only true counter to Mega Metagross. Honestly thinking it should go back to A+.

M-Scizor dropped due to the rise of fast Heatran, the Zards on balanced, Keldeo usage and other meta-game trends that did not favor M-Scizor. You can't really say it runs its "large and varied pool of sets efficiently" when these are really common occurrences on many teams. Also its movepool isn't really that varied granted that doesn't stop Keldeo from being S rank considering it runs maybe 10 or so moves altogether so yeah in a Metagross metagame people highly oversell it tremendously for being an A+ threat. This position may or may not be momentary cause we're not going to be changing the votes we already have right away just for someone elses case, just thought I'd let you all know before you guys bring up these rankings you feel so strongly about.

M-Absol shouldn't rise and even the fact it "checks" M-Sableye, it's actually extremely mediocre if not outright garbage in a lot of situations. The only time it realistically sets up an SD is against slower builds that can't threaten it immediately and it's so frail that it needs to net the KO or it straight up loses. It's funny how people say it's anti-meta when it can't even handle the metagame due to it's pretty obvious flaws lol so yeah leave that in C it's more on the verge of dropping and the only saving grace right now is that people are overhyping its abilities to handle M-Sableye when a Fairy type is usually paired up with M-Sableye so it'll never be worried about this at all.

This was discussed for a good 2 pages or so with the inclusion of deleted one liners.....but M-Sceptile is fine where it's at. Pain for offense, does relatively well against Balanced as a cleaner, will never actually break stall but w/e it's not suppose to be doing this anyways under normal circumstances. Also granted this might not be the exact words but it's pretty obvious a x4 resist from Grass isn't going to do shit to M-Beedrill so it's a terrible argument to talk about M-Bee v M-Scep. Stating the obvious does zero.

Weavile, unlike M-Absol, is an actual anti-meta mon but shouldn't rise due to similar problems it has like M-Absol. Frailty, limitations, slight 4mss although at this point I think 4mss is one of the most garbage arguments ever brought up so this is an argument that is more or less falling under its limitations. It excels mostly as a cleaner but Valmanways post above pretty much summed up a lot of the cons Weavile has to contend with.

Looking at the lower rankings, I found that there are way more mons in C that there is in C+ (20 compared to 11). I don't know if there was any discussion about that mon, but I would like to nominate Porygon2 to C+.

It can Trace many useful abilities such as Gliscor's Poison Heal, Heatran's Flash Fire, Lando-T's Intimidate, etc. Also, it can beat every relevant trapper by switching in from a Shed Shell mon (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, you name 'em) and trapping them (and itself!). Still, Magnezone/ton are trapped only if they're not using Volt Switch as P2 switches in and the latter has to be wary of Trick from Gothitelle.

Speaking of Trick, P2 loves its Eviolite as much as Chansey loves hers, maybe even more, and is as vulnerable to losing its item, but then, which mon (aside from Megas) loves having its item Tricked of Knocked Off?

Furthermore, depending on its set (specially/physically defensive and TR), it can check/counter many mons such as the mons mentionned in the second paragraph, Gyarados (and his Mega counterpart if P2 switches in when he Megaevolves), [Mega] Garchomp without SD, M-Aerodactyl, M-Sceptile, M-Houndoom, M-Swampert, Diggersby, Mamoswine (Superpower fails to 2HKO due to the Atk drop), Skarmory, Tentacruel and others.

P2 has also many tools at its disposal. T-Wave and Toxic for status spreading, Magic Coat to bounce back statuses, Taunts, entry hazards and other stuff, Conversion 2 is great against Choice-locked mons. Oh and btw, P2 can also have Foul Play to deal with M-Metagross. That's right. It has a way of dealing substantial damage to the single best OU mon (Hammer Arm has a slim chance to 2HKO though):

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
0- Atk Tough Claws Porygon2 Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, yeah. Certain new threats from the ORAS metagame are checked/countered by P2 and therefore, I think we should rise Porygon2 to C+.

(First time posting here, so I may be missing something very important)

This falls under the lower rank clean up when the votes are up which is bringing down and removing a ton of stuff so I'm not going to really address that aspect of too many C mons. C+ is too high though for something that is easily taken advantage of by any efficient stall-breaker and against offense loses to legitimate offensive pressure that utilize Knock Off, which is a given on just about any offensive team. P2's role hasn't changed at all and in reality it doesn't do anything more efficiently to warrant a raise.

Maybe I'm missing some stuff but that's all I noticed for now.

 

[Pent]

Totally support Mega Scizor in A+ due to him being able to function as a wall or simply typical Scizor, destroy everything in your path. But, I kinda feel like Mega Scizor is similiar to Mega Lati@s, since in it's normal form, it can do much more with a Choice Band, or get residual Recovery from Leftovers. But none the less, it still is hella more viable than those twins.

Another cool thing you forgot to mention is that Mega Scizor is insanely good on Rain Teams due to the Fire Weakness halved.

TL;DR Cool ass Pokemon needs a bump.

 

[ChipButty]

In my personal opinion, Mega Scizor deserves to be moved back up to its former rank of A+. It is a very threatening Pokemon late-game with Swords Dance and Technician Bug Bite and Bullet Punch, and it is also fairly underrated defensively as it helps versus some threats in the tier such as Mega Metagross, Landorus-T and Sub 3 attacks Kyurem-B. The only thing that is kinda bad for it is opportunity cost and Pokemon like Keldeo becoming more popular, which I will admit does hinder it a bit.
Also, first post so feedback is welcome :]

 

[NotSoClutch]

In my personal opinion, Mega Scizor deserves to be moved back up to its former rank of A+. It is a very threatening Pokemon late-game with Swords Dance and Technician Bug Bite and Bullet Punch, and it is also fairly underrated defensively as it helps versus some threats in the tier such as Mega Metagross, Landorus-T and Sub 3 attacks Kyurem-B. The only thing that is kinda bad for it is opportunity cost and Pokemon like Keldeo becoming more popular, which I will admit does hinder it a bit.
Also, first post so feedback is welcome :]

Not only that, but it both counters Metagross and checks Diancie and Altaria. All three of these things are huge threats in the meta that mega scizor checks as well as anything making it a really important anti meta Pokemon.

 

[pika pal]

Not only that, but it both counters Metagross and checks Diancie and Altaria. All three of these things are huge threats in the meta that mega scizor checks as well as anything making it a really important anti meta Pokemon.

Should be noted that Scizor requires a hefty amount of damage on Altaria if it's a FB variant
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 260-308 (75.8 - 89.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 182-216 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 222-264 (72.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously OHKO's everytime if it's the Special attacker.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Should be noted that Scizor requires a hefty amount of damage on Altaria if it's a FB variant
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Scizor: 260-308 (75.8 - 89.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 182-216 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 308-364 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 222-264 (72.3 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously OHKO's everytime if it's the Special attacker.

Hence the check statement. It needs only a little damage to revenge kill and can switch in on anything other than a fire blast (if the altaria is even running it).

 

[bludz]

So I have a nomination: Mega Gallade A -> A-

It's not a bad pokemon by any means but just isn't that great in the current meta. I'm not going to delve deeply into the obvious traits like the great speed tier and attack stat but meh defense and typing. My argument is simpler: I believe Mega Gallade is more on the level of stuff like Starmie, Tornadus-T and regular Gyarados (A- mons) than the A rank mons like Latias, Ferrothorn and Tyranitar. While it's quite possibly better than the 2 A- megas, it's also the worst of the A rank megas imo

I'm not really adamant about this but I figure it's something to possibly discuss.

 

[Kurona]

So I have a nomination: Mega Gallade A -> A-

It's not a bad pokemon by any means but just isn't that great in the current meta. I'm not going to delve deeply into the obvious traits like the great speed tier and attack stat but meh defense and typing. My argument is simpler: I believe Mega Gallade is more on the level of stuff like Starmie, Tornadus-T and regular Gyarados (A- mons) than the A rank mons like Latias, Ferrothorn and Tyranitar. While it's quite possibly better than the 2 A- megas, it's also the worst of the A rank megas imo

I'm not really adamant about this but I figure it's something to possibly discuss.

This is actually something I was thinking about today and I'm kind of inclined to agree; if only because the amount of support it requires is pretty immense. It wants Sableye and other defensive 'mon gone, it wants birdspam gone, it appreciates fairies being gone... this is a little bare bones I am aware; but for a set-up sweeper I think it requires a little too much support at least atm.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Keep MGallade at A.

You guys are underrating it. MGallade is stopped by MSab, yes... but you guys are expecting that MGallade is the only pokemon in the team and MSab is in every match.

| 28 | Sableye | 6.876% |

Sableye isnt THAT common. Also, saying that it isnt on the level of Latias and Ferro is extremely laughable. Ferrothorn sets up Rocks and walls shit (that usually have Fire/Fight coverage in the first place) while Latias is just overshadowed by its much more offensive version, Latios, being weaker. MGallade also fares against Offense and Bulky Offense very well.

It also has access to Swords Dance and Sub, meaning it can possibly set up on things and sweep. 165 Atk with decent SpDef and 110 speed is great, too!

It also forms an absolutely amazing core with Bisharp and loves to shit on MSab with Sylveon or Unaware Clef. Seriously: Just because its weak to MSab doesnt mean it should go down. MSab isnt even super common, as it is 28th most common.

Usually most teams center around the Mega. No, not 100% build around it, but center it. Saying that it requires support is therefore somewhat ineffective.

Resisting SR, not being able to flinch, having great attack, etc. doesnt make it as bad as Gyara and Torn T imo. Gyara is weak to Rocks and in general isnt amazingly threatening while Torn T really is only good with Rain Support. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Keep MGallade at A.

You guys are underrating it. MGallade is stopped by MSab, yes... but you guys are expecting that MGallade is the only pokemon in the team and MSab is in every match.

| 28 | Sableye | 6.876% |

Sableye isnt THAT common. Also, saying that it isnt on the level of Latias and Ferro is extremely laughable. Ferrothorn sets up Rocks and walls shit (that usually have Fire/Fight coverage in the first place) while Latias is just overshadowed by its much more offensive version, Latios, being weaker. MGallade also fares against Offense and Bulky Offense very well.

It also has access to Swords Dance and Sub, meaning it can possibly set up on things and sweep. 165 Atk with decent SpDef and 110 speed is great, too!

It also forms an absolutely amazing core with Bisharp and loves to shit on MSab with Sylveon or Unaware Clef. Seriously: Just because its weak to MSab doesnt mean it should go down. MSab isnt even super common, as it is 28th most common.

Usually most teams center around the Mega. No, not 100% build around it, but center it. Saying that it requires support is therefore somewhat ineffective.

Resisting SR, not being able to flinch, having great attack, etc. doesnt make it as bad as Gyara and Torn T imo. Gyara is weak to Rocks and in general isnt amazingly threatening while Torn T really is only good with Rain Support. Just my 2 cents.

I'm inclined to stick with Richie on this one. Mega Gallade isn't all that tough to support and between its decent bulk, nice speed, amazing attack and great movepool, Mega Gallade is an absolute beast. Mega Gallade also has a massive support movepool including things like taunt, will-o-wisp, destiny bond, skill swap (really niche, but can be helpful as a sableye lure), memento, encore, etc. which can all help it to break stall or support the rest of the team. The SD set is also downright scary when it comes to smashing walls into pieces as a +2 close combat coming from a mega Gallade is able to OHKO a lot of Pokemon regardless of whether or not it's resisted and its coverage options essentially allow it to pick and choose checks.

Yes, it has its faults, but these faults aren't so damning as to say that mega Gallade isn't at least A worthy. It's such a versatile wall/stallbreaker that it's hard to imagine it being relegated to A- territory with Gyarados.

 

[Roxachronic]

Keep MGallade at A.

You guys are underrating it. MGallade is stopped by MSab, yes... but you guys are expecting that MGallade is the only pokemon in the team and MSab is in every match.

| 28 | Sableye | 6.876% |

Sableye isnt THAT common. Also, saying that it isnt on the level of Latias and Ferro is extremely laughable. Ferrothorn sets up Rocks and walls shit (that usually have Fire/Fight coverage in the first place) while Latias is just overshadowed by its much more offensive version, Latios, being weaker. MGallade also fares against Offense and Bulky Offense very well.

It also has access to Swords Dance and Sub, meaning it can possibly set up on things and sweep. 165 Atk with decent SpDef and 110 speed is great, too!

It also forms an absolutely amazing core with Bisharp and loves to shit on MSab with Sylveon or Unaware Clef. Seriously: Just because its weak to MSab doesnt mean it should go down. MSab isnt even super common, as it is 28th most common.

Usually most teams center around the Mega. No, not 100% build around it, but center it. Saying that it requires support is therefore somewhat ineffective.

Resisting SR, not being able to flinch, having great attack, etc. doesnt make it as bad as Gyara and Torn T imo. Gyara is weak to Rocks and in general isnt amazingly threatening while Torn T really is only good with Rain Support. Just my 2 cents.

M-Gallade is such a cool mon,I am unsure if it need to be lower, but I disagree on a couple of things of your post(well basically all of it tbh).

Latias unlike M-Gallade does not rely on his Mevolution, which lowers his cost, and is not overshadowed by Latios, it lacks power but actually finds abit more moments to use Defog and can help with Healing wish support, and Ferrothorn is a great mon because it walss physical walls, and not every mon is capable of having every time HP Fire, and can support with SR and Spikes.

Magnezone also forms and amazing core with every Fairy ,it is B+ because there are mons who are better than him for Volt Switching,faster or more powerful(or both), it is kinda similar to M-Gallade in that it faces competition for Megagross,CharX,Altaria for the Mega spot.

I find funny that you mention Gyara and Torna-T, since those mons actually shit on M-Gallade(well not that hard, but they are good checks to it.), underselling mons that actually beat the mon you are trying to make look good might not be the best idea.Just my 2 cents.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

M-Gallade is such a cool mon,I am unsure if it need to be lower, but I disagree on a couple of things of your post(well basically all of it tbh).

Latias unlike M-Gallade does not rely on his Mevolution, which lowers his cost, and is not overshadowed by Latios, it lacks power but actually finds abit more moments to use Defog and can help with Healing wish support, and Ferrothorn is a great mon because it walss physical walls, and not every mon is capable of having every time HP Fire, and can support with SR and Spikes.

Magnezone also forms and amazing core with every Fairy ,it is B+ because there are mons who are better than him for Volt Switching,faster or more powerful(or both), it is kinda similar to M-Gallade in that it faces competition for Megagross,CharX,Altaria for the Mega spot.

I find funny that you mention Gyara and Torna-T, since those mons actually shit on M-Gallade(well not that hard, but they are good checks to it.), underselling mons that actually beat the mon you are trying to make look good might not be the best idea.Just my 2 cents.

I was comparing their viability. Someone noted something about Gyara and Torn T so i explained what they did. Of course they shit on MGallade, but that wasnt the point.

So basically being a mega pokemon lowers his cost? Do you lose 10 dollars of Viability if you run a mega? Damn. Lopunny is unreliable before mega, A- anyone?

Ferro cant even check Azu at times: It just OHKO's with Superpower. The only thing it reliably walls now is usually Bulky/offensive Grounds. Its definetly lost viability and much better SR setters are out there, like Bulky Lando T and such.

You arent running Spikes and SR on the same set with Ferro, because afterwards you are easy bait. However, in terms of viability, I honestly think MGallade is better. With the infamous Dark/Fight/Psychic coverage that hits nearly everything except Fairies, Knock Off availibility (to hit those Lando T's coming in) and a wide variety of sets.


The reason why Mag is B+ is because trapping steels is awesome and Steel coverage is always good coverage, but its slow and relies on power to break through. Also it needs a bit of support and shit with Heatran and others. Honestly it should go to A- imo but thats another discussion. But, nothing is more powerful than Magnezone. Ill show you calcs if you really are interested.

Really a few things check MGallade, like TFlame, some flying types, etc. and fares great against all playstyles (once checks/counters are removed, the very few amounts, that is, when it runs cores) with its sheer power and speed. I dont think that defines an A- mon.

 

[Roxachronic]

I was comparing their viability. Someone noted something about Gyara and Torn T so i explained what they did. Of course they shit on MGallade, but that wasnt the point.

So basically being a mega pokemon lowers his cost? Do you lose 10 dollars of Viability if you run a mega? Damn. Lopunny is unreliable before mega, A- anyone?

Ferro cant even check Azu at times: It just OHKO's with Superpower. The only thing it reliably walls now is usually Bulky/offensive Grounds. Its definetly lost viability and much better SR setters are out there, like Bulky Lando T and such.

You arent running Spikes and SR on the same set with Ferro, because afterwards you are easy bait. However, in terms of viability, I honestly think MGallade is better. With the infamous Dark/Fight/Psychic coverage that hits nearly everything except Fairies, Knock Off availibility (to hit those Lando T's coming in) and a wide variety of sets.


The reason why Mag is B+ is because trapping steels is awesome and Steel coverage is always good coverage, but its slow and relies on power to break through. Also it needs a bit of support and shit with Heatran and others. Honestly it should go to A- imo but thats another discussion. But, nothing is more powerful than Magnezone. Ill show you calcs if you really are interested.

Really a few things check MGallade, like TFlame, some flying types, etc. and fares great against all playstyles (once checks/counters are removed, the very few amounts, that is, when it runs cores) with its sheer power and speed. I dont think that defines an A- mon.

Being a a mega has its cost, becuase that means you cannot run other megas, I tought that was pretty clear.

But it can check Gyara,Suicune,Slowbro(or bulky water mons in general), put Spikes/SR and also discourage physical mons into attacking.

I never said it had SR and Spikes on the same set, no idea why are you bringing that up, Charizard X can set up on you unboosted, as does every releevant DD, Fairies destroy it, M-Metagross wins on a 1 vs1, weak to Talonflame and mons like Starmie,Raikou,Serperior are having more usage which outrun him and can deal with him sometimes even with no prior damage at all, now add its speed ties.

I don't know why in the world you said that nothing is more powerful than Magnezone(?),Specs Raikou is more powerful than Scarf Magnezone,in case you got somewhat confused I will pretent you meant M-Gallade, and in that situation you need to remember that actually M-Medicham outpowers it(it is less viable because of the speed, but the statement itself is false).

Everything relies on power through break through in reality, that is kinda obvious.

A few things? You mean like Lando-T,Talonflame,Tornadus-T,Gliscor,M-Crobro,M-Sableye,Gyara,etc.? I don't see how it fares well against Offense, 90% of the time he needs to come after a mon died or with a slow w-turn/volt switch because he is easy to 2OHKO or even sometimes OHKO, unlike M-Metagross who can resist a hit from its checks and retaliate back.


He is a good mon, great coverage, nice speed tier(lets face it is is not so incredible when you are tied with like 5 other mons and there are like other 8 mons who outrun you and this is not taken into account priority or Scarf users), nice power, it just find it difficult to begin doing his job.

I am unsure if he should drop, but overselling it with bring no help to it aside from getting moree counter arguments when you do it.

 

[Albacore]

I can't really see Gallade going any lower than A simply on the basis that it is extremely potent against what is probably the most common playstyle atm, balance, the only common things really stopping it on there being Clefable who, if it runs Magic Guard, needs Thunder Wave to check it, and if it runs Unaware it gets pressured pretty badly by hazards; Slowbro, who can take a hit paralyze it (which can still be blocked by Substitute which is a pretty legitimate option on Gallade if it has the right team support to afford dropping Zen Headbutt); Mega-Slowbro, who needs a Scald burn to even switch in after rocks assuming it runs the standard spread (though if it runs Iron Defense it wins regardless), and Mega-Altaria, which is definitely a thorn in its side, but the only set that takes it on, the physically defensive set, isn't really that difficult to switch into, at least compared to the offensive sets. Otherwise, it threatens and can set up on up on balance staples like Tyranitar, Celebi, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Kedleo to a lesser extent. Being walled by Sableye is definitely a problem, and the fact that most of Sableye's checks are also megas is a shame too, however there are still a bunch of very good ways to take advantage of it : CM Clefable, SD Gliscor, Sub CM Keldeo, NP Togekiss, TG Manaphy, SD Talonflame to name a few. And regardless, fitting something on your team that can take care of Sableye is usually a no-brainer so running Mega Gallade doesn't really squander the rest of your teambuilding most of the time.
But the main reason I don't think it makes sense to drop it is because that would basically put it on the same level as Mega Heracross and Diggersby, and Gallade is pretty clearly superior to them despite its inability to break Sableye (which is becoming less and less of a big deal as the metagame progresses). Whether or not these two still deserve to stay A- is debatable, but for now, I can't see Gallade sharing a rank with them.

Speaking of wallbreakers, I'd like to bring up Landorus-I again, the more I use it the more like I feel it belongs in S rank. It is just ridiculously affective at what it does which is completely annihilate bulkier teams. The Rock Polish set is fantastic, not only does it just steamroll balanced teams thanks to Modest Earth Power hitting everything like a truck, it's also pretty solid against offensive teams, it's able to set up on stuff like Landorus-T, Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, Magnezone, and although it loses to most priority users, the threat that Landorus-I poses often forces the opponent into making a certain play which Landorus-I can switch out of into something else, for example the opponent has to keep his Latios in on a +2 Lando-I even if he knows you can just switch to your Pursuit TTar. Switching a boosted Landorus out honestly isn't too big a deal since its immunity to ground and actually decent bulk enables it to set up multiple times per battle (ie whenever the opposing Landorus-T locks itself into EQ) so it actually has multiple shots to sweep unlike, say, Diancie or even Volcarona. I guess the RP set kinda has 4MSS since it wants Knock Off, Sludge Wave, HP Ice, Psychic and Focus Blast, but this really depends on the team, besides Psyshic is mainly a luxury and Focus Blast isn't that great of an option since Mandibuzz and Skarmory are passive enough to take advantage of in other ways and relying on a 70% acc move to clean is meh. Anyway, Landorus-I is a ridiculous threat every team needs to prepare for, matches up really well to a lot of common threats, and is easy to fit on teams. Remember the "Lando-T is my best check to Lando-T" era? Same thing is going on right now, just with a different Landorus (seriously run HP Ice it's good).

 

[Sochlo]

So I've used Megallade a lot in ORAS. Like, a LOT. And if you were to bring up it dropping a few weeks ago where Sableye stall was the name of the game (I kind of take back what I said about Sableye needing to be suspected btw, the more I play with/against it), I would agree with you indefinitely.

But the metagame trend right now revolves around balance, which is the playstyle I feel Gallade has the best matchup against. At +2 Gallade cuts through most defensive cores on balanced, with Unaware Clefable being an exception, and it's relatively easy to find set up opportunities against that playstyle factoring in its decent bulk. Support for Gallade isn't too demanding, since it forms great offensive cores with a fair number of potent mons like Bisharp and Manaphy, hazards don't really hinder it as much as it does other mons, and birdspam is something you should prepare for naturally.

The biggest problem for Gallade by far is its ass defensive typing. Psychic/Fighting gives it no useful resistances, resisiting Rock and Fighting is meh especially since you don't take physical hits very well. This means that Gallade needs support getting into the field, and it makes getting off a mega evolution something you have to set up since it starts at 80 speed, that's not a problem against balance but against offense it shows.

It's not a metagame defining threat right now (though I definitely think it's underutilized considering how it fares vs the currently most popular playstyle) but I definitely think it's much more relevant in the current metagame than say, Mega Heracross.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Being a a mega has its cost, becuase that means you cannot run other megas, I tought that was pretty clear.

But it can check Gyara,Suicune,Slowbro(or bulky water mons in general), put Spikes/SR and also discourage physical mons into attacking.

I never said it had SR and Spikes on the same set, no idea why are you bringing that up, Charizard X can set up on you unboosted, as does every releevant DD, Fairies destroy it, M-Metagross wins on a 1 vs1, weak to Talonflame and mons like Starmie,Raikou,Serperior are having more usage which outrun him and can deal with him sometimes even with no prior damage at all, now add its speed ties.

I don't know why in the world you said that nothing is more powerful than Magnezone(?),Specs Raikou is more powerful than Scarf Magnezone,in case you got somewhat confused I will pretent you meant M-Gallade, and in that situation you need to remember that actually M-Medicham outpowers it(it is less viable because of the speed, but the statement itself is false).

Everything relies on power through break through in reality, that is kinda obvious.

A few things? You mean like Lando-T,Talonflame,Tornadus-T,Gliscor,M-Crobro,M-Sableye,Gyara,etc.? I don't see how it fares well against Offense, 90% of the time he needs to come after a mon died or with a slow w-turn/volt switch because he is easy to 2OHKO or even sometimes OHKO, unlike M-Metagross who can resist a hit from its checks and retaliate back.


He is a good mon, great coverage, nice speed tier(lets face it is is not so incredible when you are tied with like 5 other mons and there are like other 8 mons who outrun you and this is not taken into account priority or Scarf users), nice power, it just find it difficult to begin doing his job.

I am unsure if he should drop, but overselling it with bring no help to it aside from getting moree counter arguments when you do it.

Yes, because everyone would want to run two megas on a team, because that wouldnt be broken. If you run the MLatias set, then regular Latias is basically useless, as iirc i dont remember MLatias running Defog, and it likes more bulk.

You clearly said SR and spikes, which means you would run it on the same set; from your words, not mine.

Yes, MMeta wins on a 1vs1, but it also beats a plethora of other mons, so thats to be expected. Every pokemon has its checks/counters. Not saying MGallade is gonna beat everything. Talonflame is a great revenge killer, but it does lose to Sub sets with a bit of damage taken.

252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 207-244 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also all the mons you listed lose to its Sub set, too.

252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 213-252 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Outspeeds then it sets up DD. Problem is is that You're expecting there arent 5 other mons on the other team. Bulky Lando T and many scarf users+Fairies tank some hits from DDance Zard X. There are much more, but thats an example.

MGallade has more sets than its SD set, too. Again, it cant handle everything. Im not expecting a Fighting type to take out Gliscor, thats why i have other team members. Torn T is only seen on rain teams.

Did you just say that its bad because it revenge kills? Do you even know the basis of HO? If you have a pokemon you can sack, revenge kill and sweep, do it to gain momentum! It really only fares badly against the new Stall megas, and really puts the pressure on Stall otherwise, bar shit like Gliscor. Seriously, TFlames main purpose for its CB and even SD sets are to revenge kill. Most viable pokemon are only viable because they can revenge kill at most times!

Tied with 5 things and 8 things that outspeed it... MLop does shit against its Sub set, basically almost every scarfer and thing that outspeeds it loses to its Sub set.

Hey, how am i overrating this thing by keeping it in its current rank? Thats like saying im underrating Mega Metagross because i dont want it to be banned...

 

[bludz]

Just wanna re-state that I never felt strongly about M-Gallade dropping, I made the nomination primarily to promote a discussion. I'm not against it staying in A rank and was hoping to see some nice arguments for it to stay.

Also, saying that it isnt on the level of Latias and Ferro is extremely laughable.

Latias was A+ rank fairly recently. Calling this extremely laughable is also pretty rude. BTW, this post didn't really make an argument for why M-Gallade should be in A rank. You just stated some well-known stuff about it such as its stats, movepool and synergy with Bisharp + Fairy cores. I could tell you that Skarmory is an amazing defensive wall with awesome typing and a nice support movepool, but that doesn't give you an idea of where it should be ranked. Also FYI Tornadus-T is not only seen on rain teams, it's an excellent speedy pivot with nice utility moves such as U-Turn, Knock Off and Taunt. If you were correct in your assumption about it, I doubt it would be A- rank.

Albacore and Sochlo make some nice points, reading these posts makes me glad I made the nomination.

As for Albacore's mention of Landorus-I possibly moving up to S-rank; I support it. Not much to add that he didn't already say, it's just a really versatile mon with 2 different types of setup that smack different playstyles (RP for offense, CM for balance/stall). Setup is also completely optional and its checks and counters are pretty variable based on the moveset making it one of the hardest threats to switch into.

 

[Teeny Victory]

Yes, because everyone would want to run two megas on a team, because that wouldnt be broken. If you run the MLatias set, then regular Latias is basically useless, as iirc i dont remember MLatias running Defog, and it likes more bulk.

Actually Richie, one of mega latias' better sets(well, it's second out of two) is a reflect type/defog/recover/stab move filler etc set that is flying around on a couple of semi stall teams atm, for the fact that it uses m-latis amazing bulk and typing to basically get a guaranteed Defog off, and beat alot of common hazard setters with a speedy reflect type, while being way bulkier than Starmie. So no, mega latias is not useless at deffoging and can do it very successfully (even though opportunity cost and stuff, but it's still a very cool set that is extremely hard to stop deffoging)

 

[Roxachronic]

Yes, because everyone would want to run two megas on a team, because that wouldnt be broken. If you run the MLatias set, then regular Latias is basically useless, as iirc i dont remember MLatias running Defog, and it likes more bulk.

You clearly said SR and spikes, which means you would run it on the same set; from your words, not mine.

Yes, MMeta wins on a 1vs1, but it also beats a plethora of other mons, so thats to be expected. Every pokemon has its checks/counters. Not saying MGallade is gonna beat everything. Talonflame is a great revenge killer, but it does lose to Sub sets with a bit of damage taken.

252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 207-244 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also all the mons you listed lose to its Sub set, too.

252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 213-252 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Outspeeds then it sets up DD. Problem is is that You're expecting there arent 5 other mons on the other team. Bulky Lando T and many scarf users+Fairies tank some hits from DDance Zard X. There are much more, but thats an example.

MGallade has more sets than its SD set, too. Again, it cant handle everything. Im not expecting a Fighting type to take out Gliscor, thats why i have other team members. Torn T is only seen on rain teams.

Did you just say that its bad because it revenge kills? Do you even know the basis of HO? If you have a pokemon you can sack, revenge kill and sweep, do it to gain momentum! It really only fares badly against the new Stall megas, and really puts the pressure on Stall otherwise, bar shit like Gliscor. Seriously, TFlames main purpose for its CB and even SD sets are to revenge kill. Most viable pokemon are only viable because they can revenge kill at most times!

Tied with 5 things and 8 things that outspeed it... MLop does shit against its Sub set, basically almost every scarfer and thing that outspeeds it loses to its Sub set.

Hey, how am i overrating this thing by keeping it in its current rank? Thats like saying im underrating Mega Metagross because i dont want it to be banned...

Reread it again, I said he can learn/use SR and Spikes, which lets you choose whatever one fits you better.

I say it is not ''incredible'' against offense because he is easy to RK and find it a little hard begin to do his job, I never said is bad because it can RK, not trying to be rude or anything, but is not my problem that you cannot understand what I am saying.

You are overrating it by saying it does incredible and is hella difficult to stop, which only aplies against Balance(I have not played lately, but the good part for him is that it seems to be the most common playstyle atm.) if you ask me, he is a good mon, has great movepoll , his speed is nice.

If you are running Sub you are either not running Knock Off or Swords Dance, and you are relying on the opponent not doing a hit to you previously, which is not reliable against Offense, you are implying that I don't know a thing about Offense and your counter argument is a set that is explotaible against it because you will be hard pressed to do it effectively and be in constant need to be switching,and before you say ''then why M-Lopunny can also run a sub set?'' that is because she has much more speed which lets her only be worried about priority or scarfers breaking it instead of the 5 and 8 mons that you claim that M-Gallade ''shits''.


I don't think tbh that it should drop anyway, but underselling other A rank mons and overselling him(which in case you did knot know is overstating facts and making they seem to be greater than they actually are, which is not limited only to when you say a mon should drop/raise) did not seem fair to me.

 

[ChipButty]

I'm not sure what to think about Mega Gallade at the moment. On the one hand, the meta has adapted to it; Clefable is on the rise and Mega Sableye, while not the most common Mega, is a big problem for it. It also needs some team support to help against certain playstyles such as Birdspam. However, as mentioned by others, Mega Gallade can easily demolish an unprepared balance team, which is a very common playstyle right now, after a Swords Dance boost. Sure, a balance team is bound to have some kind of answer to it, but when they're out of the picture Gallade can go on a rampage if it is allowed to set up. I also don't see Mega Gallade on the same level as things like Mega Heracross, at least right now. I'm leaning towards keeping it at A rank, but as I said I'm not completely sure.

 

[Kurona]

On the statement of not seeing Gallade 'on the level of Mega Heracross'; I honestly don't feel Mega Heracross is on the level of the other 'mon in A- any longer. The metagame got bulkier and faster with a far harsher opportunity cost, and while it is possible for Hera to beat Sableye, it fails to break through other new threats like Altaria. I feel it's much weaker and less splashable of a Pokémon than the others in A-.