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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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If you're nominating something for a new ranking, you need a hell of a lot more than one throwaway line. At the very least provide a good replay of it in action and at least actually say why you'd use it rather than "secondary sand rusher". Hell, explain why you need a secondary sand rusher.
I don't think this will work out. Stoutland is pretty good in lower tiers with Hippopotas, but as Kurona noted there's really not a good reason to have a secondary Sand Rush mon. I'm not 100% sure that it is useless, but the burden of proof is on you to show that it's viable, and it really doesn't look like it is intuitively. It stacks a Fighting weakness with both Excadrill and Tyranitar, and isn't that bulky. Its coverage is feh, Normal is not a great STAB, Stoutland doesn't have any priority that I know of, and "dedicated [weather] teams" (I'm guessing you mean a team full of weather abusers) have been pretty hard to build since XY, Rain teams notwithstanding.
Speaking of things that make people wet, let's talk about Starmie (segue of the week). I think the consensus is a rise from A- to A based on
1) Starmie's access to Rapid Spin
2) The re-emergence of 115 as the "really good" speed tier; the banning of Greninja and the introduction of a crowd of 110 Speed Megas are the main reasons for this.
3) Starmie's ability to force painful decisions for the opponent with the combination of Analytic Hydro Pumps, which are more powerful (albeit less bankable) than Greninja's, and Rapid Spin. Analytic constricts switching and creates 50/50s in the Starmie user's favor. If the user switches to a bulky mon that can take the Hydro Pump/Psyshock, it will either give Starmie a free spin, or Starmie will take ~35% off of their Chansey. I know that this is a prediction-dependent argument, but the prediction is generally a win/win for the Starmie user.
4) The Reflect Type/Defensive Spinner set, which can turn Bisharp and Ferrothorn into liabilities/burn bait while avoiding status with Natural Cure.
5) Performance vs. spinblockers bar Scarfgar.
6) Gen 1 Coverage Attack movepool.
I also support Raikou B+ to A- for the sole reason that the 115 speed tier is fantastically important right now and Raikou generally does what it needs to: pivot and revenge kill. Resistance to BirdSpam, although not quite as important as it used to be, is still crucial for Offense. I think someone posted a few pages ago that the response to Raikou is largely dependent on the playstyle you're using; even though it doesn't give Stall or Balance a lot of trouble, it's a really great mon for Offense and against opposing offense.
Cheers!
EDIT: Bolded some things.
To expand on the nomination, Stoutland is a secondary sweeper whos only real purpose is to hit Skarm, rotom, and cress quite a bit harder. To do this effectively, it needs a choice band in my honest opinion or it doesnt get the guaranteed 2HKO on skarm after rocks. Honestly I think there are better options on most teams, but if you are a hyper offensively oriented sand team: having a second sand sweeper with normal, dark, fighting, electric coverage (which I believe is at least perfect neutral) can be very beneficial.
I think D is a fitting rank and will try to expand my thoughts in a future post when I have access to something other than this phone.
Fine. Doubled Speed in the sand allows Stoutland to outpace most of the meta, (barely gets beaten by base 108 scarfers when running Adamant nature). This combined with a decent Attack stat and respectable movepool including Play Rough, Superpower, Crunch, Fire Fang and Wild Charge makes it a decent revenge killer or late game cleaner. It falls short of Exca in terms of typing, utility, power, Speed and reliable setup. However, it can be a decent partner to sand sweeper Exca, who can severely damage both offensive and bulky teams but can nevertheless be worn down by priority, LO recoil, etc. Sand offense typically relies heavily on Exca to sweep and therefore seeks to keep it healthy until a chance for a sweep arises. Stoutland takes some pressure off Exca as it is able to finish off teams weakened by it.
Basically, Stoutland's pretty bad and should only be used as a partner for Exca but sand doesn't have access to a plethora of great abusers like rain does. Therefore, I think it's at least worth considering for D rank.
I'll try to get some replays in the near future.
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Stoutland requires immense team support in order for it to have any use. The fact that a team needs to put a lot of effort into even getting stoutland the chance to sweep, the fact that it's outclassed by excadrill, and the crippling fact that many physical walls can stop it dead in its track just ruins any chance of even being viable in OU it had.
I don't think he's saying use stoutland over excadrill, but use them togeather. One breaks through teams, while the other cleans. Like rain teams, you have a swift swimmer who breaks mid game, then have another clean up. Yes it does stack weaknesses, but so do swift swimmers, and I think being another sand rush sweeper (the ONLY other one) that can be used in a dual sand rush core, is enough to be placed in D rank.
I mean the logic that Sand Offense is so pressured by Excadrill to sweep to be successful is sort of an exaggeration if the teams means in gaining a win condition is heavily reliant on maintaining both the sand setter and Excadrill, hint it isn't and shouldn't be. Sand Offense is a form of offense that utilizes the sand core in an efficient manner, it is part of the team as a central point of the team, not necessarily the means as to which you would secure yourself a win in every situation. Most sand offense teams have secondary win conditions such as Serperior or Dragon Dance Altaria. With this being said you guys are using some sort of illusion that sand offense necessitates a secondary sand sweeper when that is far from the case, the case being that Stoutland is just some random mon you throw on a team for shits and giggles. The comparison of rain being brought is not fair and in all honesty shouldn't be used. In regards to rain the playstyle itself relies on completely different dynamics. In what world does Rain stack weaknesses to the point that it's such a burden to accommodate for? The wall-breakers and sweepers themselves on rain have much more synergy based on the utilization of dual typing and for example M-Swampert + Kingdra, net both sides of the defensive spectrum much more efficiently. Rain benefits from multiple users of Scald, a move that not only is enhanced by the power of rain but has the powerful effect of burn rate as well. I can go on and on but my point being is that the utilization of two swift swimmers in comparison to two sand rush users is extremely faulty logic when you consider how both playstyles function, what's being utilized in an actual effective manner, and the tools at their disposal which in practice actually work, not some idea that Excadrill is so burdened it needs an extra sand rush user to help it out.
That's the thing New Light, it doesn't need to, at all. You're trying to compare sand offense and rain offense, apples and oranges, a core and a team, when the only thing similar is the seed that can be considered the fact they utilize weather cleaners. That last point is the only true comparison you and everyone else should take into account and with that being said if it's bad, it's simply bad, so there's no point in putting Stoutland on the rankings.
Breloom is fine where it's at. The limitations of Breloom are not really present when you take into account the different variations and tools it has at its disposal. Spore, Toxic Orb attacker, Sash, Life Orb variants, priority, technician that ties in with non Poison Heal variants. These are all effective on a variety of teams on both balance minded and offensive ones.
Ok I'm just putting this out there, but does Reuniclus warrant a rise to C+ rank? I've used it quite a bit the past few weeks, and it's been a great answer to many Pokemon such as Heatran, Keldeo, Lopunny, Manectric, Diancie, and if running Shadow Ball, beats Sableye, Slowbro, Metagross, Gallade. It also stallbreaks really well once Sableye is removed, and it's bulk allows it to live a Knock Off from Jolly Bisharp and retaliate with Focus Blast.
I know a lot of you will compare it to Clefable, a big competitor with Reuniclus, but Reuniclus has some things over Clefable in the form of more bulk, more power, the power to break Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Heatran. Reuniclus also does well against bulkier balance builds since it steamrolls through Pokemon like Hippowdon, Rotom-W etc.
Not sure if you'll agree with me, but I think Reuniclus deserves to be on the same level as 'mons like Seismitoad and Mega Ampharos.
EDIT: I meant C+
I know a lot of you will compare it to Clefable, a big competitor with Reuniclus, but Reuniclus has some things over Clefable in the form of more bulk, more power, the power to break Chansey, Mega Venusaur, Heatran. Reuniclus also does well against bulkier balance builds since it steamrolls through Pokemon like Hippowdon, Rotom-W etc.
Not sure if you'll agree with me, but I think Reuniclus deserves to be on the same level as 'mons like Seismitoad and Mega Ampharos.
EDIT: I meant C+
I said like 30 pages ago that when the meta settled Raikou will need to rise A- because of his traits, and now is the time for my biased dream come true!
I think all about Raikou has been said, great pivot, great speed tier, nice special attack, the best offensive volt turn user(alongisde M-Manectric, but costing a Megaslot and that stuff, which makes Raikou the easiest one to use into a voltturn core), usable movepool, relying on an item and needing prediction are his cons(pretty similar to all choice mons, tough Raikou is more affected IMO.), with Starmie,Lando-T and Serperior in the rise this mon is incredible useful to treat them alongside providing momentum to the team and not be dependant on your Mevo *coughcoughM-Manectriccoughcough*
So yeah Raikou from B+ to A-
Landorus-I
A+ ---> S
Supporting Landorus-I to S Rank.
Simply put, Landorus-I is super powerful in this meta. It can easily tear apart common defensive and balanced cores such as VenuTran, Ferrothorn + Heatran, Gliscor + Clefable (if running HP Ice), Mega Sabeye + Jirachi + Tentacruel, and CeleTran if running Sludge Wave. Rock Polish sets have a field day against offense, as Landorus-I can outspeed every mon on their team with a boost and even their scarfers. Most mons on HO tend to be super frail, so Landorus-I can easily put a dent into them or just flat out OHKO them. CM sets can also tear apart stall teams. Pretty much the only reliable answer to it is Cresselia, which is super super niche. Landorus-I's coverage is also really phenomenal. It has many options to choose from it's movepool, including Earth Power, Sludge Wave, Psychic, Focus Blast, Knock Off, HP Ice, and U-Turn. The only move you really know for sure that it'll carry is Earth Power. If you think your Gliscor is a good switch in, it'll get bopped by an HP Ice. What about Celebi? U-Turn or Sludge Wave. Latios? Knock Off takes away it's item and nearly KOs it. Most of the time you have to sac something just to figure out it's moveset, and by then it could be too late. Landorus-I paired with Pursuit support is also really amazing. Pokemon like Bisharp and Tyranitar can easily take care of most of it's checks and counters, such as Chansey, Latias, and Gyarados. Landorus-I is also a decent SR setter. It beats the most common magic bounce user Mega Sableye, and can find ample opportunities to come in on something like Heatran, force it out, and either set up SR on the switch, or just directly nuke the switch in.
All in all, Landorus-I can easily tear apart common balanced and defensive cores, it has 3 solid sets which fare well against the 3 different playstyles (Rock Polish has a field day against HO, CM wrecks stall, while an all out attacker set can demolish most balanced teams), is hard to prepare for because the only move you know for sure it'll have is Earth Power, so you'll often have to sack mons to find out what it's running, has limited switch ins which can be taken care of with proper team support, is actually quite an effective SR setter thanks to it being able to defeat Mega Sableye, the most common magic bounce user, and therefore it deserves to be moved up to S rank.
I know I might get a significant amount of hate for this, But I belive that Keldeo should be moved from S to A+. Keldeo, of course, is not a bad pokemon, but the prevelance of Checks talonflame, Azumarril, Mega Diancie and Sylveon can make Its job especially hard. Furthermore, many people will find that less powerful, bulkier CM sweepers (Clefable, CroBro etc.) can do the job more reliability. If we talk about the specs set, Keldeo can be locked into an inaccurate hydro pump or a Semi-widely resisted secret sword. Finally, almost all Mega-Venusaur Varients can Counter this thing without breaking a Sweat. While I do agree that Keldeo is a good pokemon, it's base 108 Speed leaves it checked by most Varients of the Lati twins, raikou, Thunderus, mega manectric, and Alakazam and it's Mega Form. So, while Keldeo Is a great pokemon, I don't think is quite deserving of S rank. So, I still stand my my claim. Keldeo from S to A+ rank.
While I debate Keldeo being S myself, a lot of those reasons you listed aren't exactly convincing. Pretty much all of those faster threats to Keldeo you mentioned can be handled very easily by Pursuit Tyranitar or Bisharp, not to mention if any of those threats switch into Icy Wind then Keldeo has an amazing advantage right there. And offensive checks like Azumarill and Venusaur, really don't want to be burned from Scald. And thanks to its good speed and SR resistance, Keldeo can come in multiple times to force switches from its terrifying STAB combo that can hit both defensive spectrums. There really isn't much that puts pressure on you like a Keldeo that just came in for free.
Garchomp
A --> A+
Garchomp is a very versatile Pokemon making it pretty hard to prepare for. Obviously not S anymore because of Gen 6's powercreep with megas, but it (at least imo) looks to be in the same league as those in A+. It can fill a lot of niches and holds some titles that no other Pokemon does such as being the best rocks setter and a very effective stop to Volt-Turn.
Bulky Chomp is a very solid Pokemon, being a great rocks setter on balanced teams. It can check bird-spam really well since they take like 5 million percent just by touching it with recoil, Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet. It also gets Stone Edge / Rock Slide to hit back. All the chip damage and its respectable 130 attack make it a great check or counter to most physical attackers. This include very common things like Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross which it can Earthquake, and Mega Gyara since it doesn't carry Ice Fang anymore (Crunch). Mega Gallade can also be added. Of course Ice moves on those can get past but they are really rare and generally sub-par. In fact the presence of Chomp, Lando and Gliscor forcing them to forego something else for Ice is a small case of centralisation. It also counters the very common Bisharp and beats sand teams easily, checking both of Tyranitar and Excadrill and is like the best stop out there to Volt-Turn (immune to Volt Switch, does roughly 33% chip damage to U-Turners).
Offensive sets are just as good too. It's a very reliable rocks setter since it beats almost all hazard removers such as Skarmory, Scizor (Fire Blast), Excadrill, Tentacruel, (EQ) and can prevent hazards from being set up by virtue of threatening common hazard setters such as T-Tar, Heatran and Ferrothorn with Fire Blast. Also has a wide movepool with access to things like SD, good dual STABs and good coverage to round it off (Fire Blast, Edge). Paired with Lum Berry or LO it can be a wallbreaker with strong Outrages and EQ.
SD + Lum can break things like Rotom-W and Mega Sableye. Then there is the less common but surprise Scarf, which can revenge things like Zard X, Volc, M-Meta (like the deadliest Pokemon in the tier right now). Being a Ground type is a big perk too since Thundurus can't T-Wave it to cripple its Speed, which makes it a massive threat to most offensive teams that typically rely on Thundurus to check really fast things.
Overall it's a very solid, versatile Pokemon, being able to sport defensive and various offensive sets. Good stats all around, being the best of Dragon-Grounds, and solid bulk make it difficult to remove easily and it can dent most of the defining Pokemon in the tier. It's just never deadweight. Having all these perks and being more versatile than most of the Pokemon in A+ just makes it look worthy of being ranked with them, and it's more difficult to properly prepare for than most on that list.
A --> A+
Garchomp is a very versatile Pokemon making it pretty hard to prepare for. Obviously not S anymore because of Gen 6's powercreep with megas, but it (at least imo) looks to be in the same league as those in A+. It can fill a lot of niches and holds some titles that no other Pokemon does such as being the best rocks setter and a very effective stop to Volt-Turn.
Bulky Chomp is a very solid Pokemon, being a great rocks setter on balanced teams. It can check bird-spam really well since they take like 5 million percent just by touching it with recoil, Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet. It also gets Stone Edge / Rock Slide to hit back. All the chip damage and its respectable 130 attack make it a great check or counter to most physical attackers. This include very common things like Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross which it can Earthquake, and Mega Gyara since it doesn't carry Ice Fang anymore (Crunch). Mega Gallade can also be added. Of course Ice moves on those can get past but they are really rare and generally sub-par. In fact the presence of Chomp, Lando and Gliscor forcing them to forego something else for Ice is a small case of centralisation. It also counters the very common Bisharp and beats sand teams easily, checking both of Tyranitar and Excadrill and is like the best stop out there to Volt-Turn (immune to Volt Switch, does roughly 33% chip damage to U-Turners).
Offensive sets are just as good too. It's a very reliable rocks setter since it beats almost all hazard removers such as Skarmory, Scizor (Fire Blast), Excadrill, Tentacruel, (EQ) and can prevent hazards from being set up by virtue of threatening common hazard setters such as T-Tar, Heatran and Ferrothorn with Fire Blast. Also has a wide movepool with access to things like SD, good dual STABs and good coverage to round it off (Fire Blast, Edge). Paired with Lum Berry or LO it can be a wallbreaker with strong Outrages and EQ.
SD + Lum can break things like Rotom-W and Mega Sableye. Then there is the less common but surprise Scarf, which can revenge things like Zard X, Volc, M-Meta (like the deadliest Pokemon in the tier right now). Being a Ground type is a big perk too since Thundurus can't T-Wave it to cripple its Speed, which makes it a massive threat to most offensive teams that typically rely on Thundurus to check really fast things.
Overall it's a very solid, versatile Pokemon, being able to sport defensive and various offensive sets. Good stats all around, being the best of Dragon-Grounds, and solid bulk make it difficult to remove easily and it can dent most of the defining Pokemon in the tier. It's just never deadweight. Having all these perks and being more versatile than most of the Pokemon in A+ just makes it look worthy of being ranked with them, and it's more difficult to properly prepare for than most on that list.
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I actually disagree quite a bit with this. Yeah, Talonflame is a huge bane for Keldeo, but Talonflame is a huge bane for Metagross, Sableye, even stuff in Uber like Genesect and Aegislash, so the fact the Talonflame checks Keldeo isn't a big deal, especially when you account for the fact that SubCM Keldeo may be behind a sub.
What is so good about Keldeo is it's ability to muscle past it's usual checks and counters such as Lati@s, Tentacruel, Azumarill, Gyarados with burns. It's SubCM set is also centralising to the point where defensive Starmie runs Psyshock>Reflect type, as well as seeing a rise in the usage of Slowbro, Celebi etc.
I'm gonna quote AM's post in the SQSA on Keldeo since I'm not the best at explaining, but here it is:
am said:
EDIT: 200th POST!! :)
Tornadus-T
A- ---> A
Tornadus-T has been getting quite popular ever since the Greninja ban. It is actually quite similar to Greninja in a sense, as it has fantastic coverage, and a blazing speed stat, chilling out at base 121. Tornadus-T also has access to Regenerator, so being weak to Stealth Rock doesn't even matter when it gets back 8% by switching on it. Regenerator + U-Turn + Assault Vest also allows Tornadus-T to be an amazing pivot. A Life Orb set allows Tornadus-T to hit harder, making it a decent mixed attacker. Even though Tornadus-T's offensive stats might seem a bit lackluster, they can be increased with Life Orb, while most of it's moves also have high base power. Tornadus-T's mixed offensive stats are also amazing, so it can fully utilize moves such as U-Turn, Knock Off, and Superpower. Tornadus-T has an amazing movepool. Hurricane is a solid STAB move with a nice confusion chance, although it can be unreliable at times. It has solid coverage options such as Focus Blast (Superpower is generally better as having two 70% accurate moves is just asking for trouble), Superpower, Knock Off, U-Turn, Heat Wave, Grass Knot (hits mons like Rhyperior), and Sludge Wave. Flying is also an amazing offensive typing, and has really good neutral coverage combined with Superpower / Focus Blast.
This goes in tandem with Tornadus-T's wide movepool; it's insanely hard to wall. Skarmory? Bopped by Heat Wave. Chansey? Knock Off takes away Eviolite, and it should be finished by Superpower, Tornadus-T also doesn't even care about Toxic that much thanks to Regenerator. The best answers are probably Zapdos and Rotom-W, which can be handled by a parnter such as Kyu-B.
Tornadus-T does have some cons though. It's quite dependent on Rain, otherwise Hurricane's poor accuracy can become a liability. An AV set doesn't hit hard enough, while Life Orb sets have a hard time switching in, but can do lots of damage once out on the field.
In conclusion, Tornadus-T has fantastic coverage, allowing it to hit a large portion of the metagame for super effective damage, has a blazing speed stat, allowing it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, has Regenerator one of the best abilities in the game, and combined with Assault Vest allow it to be a great pivot, has solid mixed attacking stats, and the movepool to back it up, and is actually rather hard to wall. Tornadus-T is also dependent on Rain, as otherwise Hurricane's low accuracy can become a problem (although Rain is by no means neccessary). However, Tornadus-T's multiple pros outweigh it's cons, so I think it should be A.
I agree with him moving up I just wanted to say that tornadus-t does not at all rely on rain to be effective, in fact I would say he is more threatening on a non rain team, because rain has better abusers anyway. I mean sure the accuracy buff is nice, but not at all necessary for him to function. That is like saying mons that rely on focus blast like gardevoir are only viable on gravity teams. But yeah just wanted to say I agree, and the only con you mentioned doesnt seem to be a con at all which even further justifies a raise imo.
Tornadus-T
A- ---> A
Tornadus-T has been getting quite popular ever since the Greninja ban. It is actually quite similar to Greninja in a sense, as it has fantastic coverage, and a blazing speed stat, chilling out at base 121. Tornadus-T also has access to Regenerator, so being weak to Stealth Rock doesn't even matter when it gets back 8% by switching on it. Regenerator + U-Turn + Assault Vest also allows Tornadus-T to be an amazing pivot. A Life Orb set allows Tornadus-T to hit harder, making it a decent mixed attacker. Even though Tornadus-T's offensive stats might seem a bit lackluster, they can be increased with Life Orb, while most of it's moves also have high base power. Tornadus-T's mixed offensive stats are also amazing, so it can fully utilize moves such as U-Turn, Knock Off, and Superpower. Tornadus-T has an amazing movepool. Hurricane is a solid STAB move with a nice confusion chance, although it can be unreliable at times. It has solid coverage options such as Focus Blast (Superpower is generally better as having two 70% accurate moves is just asking for trouble), Superpower, Knock Off, U-Turn, Heat Wave, Grass Knot (hits mons like Rhyperior), and Sludge Wave. Flying is also an amazing offensive typing, and has really good neutral coverage combined with Superpower / Focus Blast.
This goes in tandem with Tornadus-T's wide movepool; it's insanely hard to wall. Skarmory? Bopped by Heat Wave. Chansey? Knock Off takes away Eviolite, and it should be finished by Superpower, Tornadus-T also doesn't even care about Toxic that much thanks to Regenerator. The best answers are probably Zapdos and Rotom-W, which can be handled by a parnter such as Kyu-B.
Tornadus-T does have some cons though. It's quite dependent on Rain, otherwise Hurricane's poor accuracy can become a liability. An AV set doesn't hit hard enough, while Life Orb sets have a hard time switching in, but can do lots of damage once out on the field.
In conclusion, Tornadus-T has fantastic coverage, allowing it to hit a large portion of the metagame for super effective damage, has a blazing speed stat, allowing it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, has Regenerator one of the best abilities in the game, and combined with Assault Vest allow it to be a great pivot, has solid mixed attacking stats, and the movepool to back it up, and is actually rather hard to wall. Tornadus-T is also dependent on Rain, as otherwise Hurricane's low accuracy can become a problem (although Rain is by no means neccessary). However, Tornadus-T's multiple pros outweigh it's cons, so I think it should be A.
Preach this.
Garchomp is still an extremely solid pokemon in the OU tier. And comparing it to other A rank pokemon, it is just a better pokemon. Fire Blast makes Ferro and Skarmory, the two biggest setters of OU, impossible to switch into. Basically the good points are all mentioned above.
Supporting the rise for Garchomp to A+. It's a goddamn monster offensively, or defensively, or both, or support, it doesn't matter. That's why Garchomp should go up- it could be ScarfChomp. It could be Life Orb Chomp. It could be SubSalacSD. It could be Rough Helmet. It could be sashed Rocks lead. True, its speed isn't what it used to be, but the ever present chance of a Scarf often forces switches. The chance that it could be a mega just adds to the guessing games that it creates when it first comes on the field. Even once you do know what it's doing, it still fills its role very effectively and beats most spinners or defoggers outside of the Latis if its Rocks lead, and can be a sweeper and a wallbreaker at the same time. Its speed tier is incredibly trolly, getting that one up on Lando-I which is always useful. All around a great Mon, in just about every one of the plethora of roles it can fill.
While I agree that Tornadus-T doesn't need rain to function, I think you're underselling how much 70% accuracy blows. Hurricane is Tornadus's main STAB move, and especially on the AV set it's the only one that will really hit hard. Missing with it a little less than a third of the time is a huge detractor to Torn-T's reliability. In addition, comparing the accuracy of Hurricane to Focus Blast isn't entirely fair. Most pokemon who run FB, such as 'Zam, Gengar, or Gardevoir are only running it for specific threats, meaning they are forced to rely on its shoddy accuracy only occasionally while spamming their more acurate STABs. Tornadus doesn't have that luxury, and needs to rely on Hurricane to deal consistent damage. FB is a coverage move while Hurricane is Torn-T's bread and butter, so the accuracy is a bigger deal in the latter case. I'm not necessarily against Torn-T rising, but it's important to not downplay Hurricane's problems.
EDIT: Removed unfinished sentence
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Tornadus doesn't run Focus Blast on all of its sets and in a lot of cases you'll see it running Superpower, so this isn't exactly a negative trait either. The AVs set main purpose is to provide a pivoting tool, not to be a heavy hitter so this isn't a big deal either. If you want power, which most people will run anyways, stick to Life Orb. That problem that Hurricane has is offset by the fact that it's ridiculously strong with a 30% confusion rate so the accuracy argument I feel is somewhat of a cop out considering Torn-T's choice of coverage options and realistic efficiency despite that negative aspect.
I think the only weaknesss of Garchomp right now is that Ice moves are becoming much more popular because of the rise in usage in Lando-I,Gliscor,Garchomp itself,Tornadus-T,Serperior, but tbh is a nice trade for a mon that can set SR effectively,threatens physical mons with its defensive set, can revenge a handful of good OU mons even when boosted with its scarf(CharX,non-scar Raikou,M-Manectric,Megagross),the fact that he can run something like Fire Blast to threaten Ferro if he wants is nice, because unlike a lot of mons he is usually fine with its STABs so he has place for a coverage move without affecting his usefulness.
I think A+ is a good place for him.
I think A+ is a good place for him.
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