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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

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Alright, so I just wanted to give my opinions on a few of the non-slate noms.

Mega Alakazam - A- -> A - Agree - I'm inclined to agree with this. I don't have a lot of experience with it myself, but from what I have seen, it strikes me as something that can absolutely wreck a lot of teams in the current metagame. Sure, Bisharp is as common as ever, but Bisharp is pretty easy to get around, especially since every good team should already be prepared with a counter to it. Its speed is nearly unrivaled. Only Mega Aerodactyl can really match it, but Mega Aerodactyl is pretty frail, especially on the special side. Alakazam also has a fantastic special movepool, which gives it the ability to hit every Pokemon (unless I'm forgetting something) with at least neutral damage. It also has one or two good support moves it can use, like Encore to trap the opponent into something bad, or Taunt, to make it have an easier time against stall. It also has the ability to outspeed much of the metagame even before it Mega Evolves, making it significantly easier for it to go Mega compared to some other Megas like Diancie. Plus, it doesn't have to worry about residual damage before Mega Evolving, and afterwards it gains Trace, which is one of the best abilities in the game if used well. Honestly, despite numerous claims I've seen of it generating major opportunity cost, I really don't see it. MegaKazam's one major downfall is its extreme weakness to priority moves, since it has none itself, most priority moves are physical, and it has terrible bulk. Honestly, though, it's not too hard to take the common priority users into account when creating a MegaKazam team, and its extreme weakness to priority is why people are pushing for it to go into A, not A+.

Mega Glalie - D -> Unranked - Disagree - Alright, I'm not gonna try to say that Mega Glalie is a good Pokemon, because in most respects, it's not. The ONLY reason I think it should be in D is because D-rank is reserved for things that would generally be considered crap, but do have one particular thing going for them that nothing else can do better. In Mega Glalie's case, its niche is that it is one of the only physically based Ice-type Wallbreakers in OU right now. Kyurem-B has no physical ice-type moves. Weavile does, but it's more of a Revenge Killer. Mamoswine does have some decent physical ice-type moves, and with its LO set it has quite a bit of power behind them, but it still can't hit the massive amount of power Glalie can hit thanks to Refrigerate. With Refrigerate and STAB, Return becomes a 199 power 100% accurate move with absolutely no drawbacks, off of a 120 Atk stat (which isn't spectacular, but it's good nonetheless), in one of the best attacking types in the game. Whatever else Glalie fails at, that's pretty significant. And when it's time for Glalie to explode, you're talking about a friggin' 488 power attack! Again, in one of the best attacking types. Sure Glalie faints afterwards, but that's why you save it for the right moment. For reference:

252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 86-102 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- 12.2% chance to 4HKO

This may not seem like much, until you remember that Heatran has a 4x resistance to ice, and is running the most physically bulky set possible (which it would never do in real life, this is just a demonstration). So, Heatran, the Pokemon with the best matchup against Ice, still takes between 22% and 26% from an Explosion. In other words, there's pretty much no way anything you'd realistically use the Explosion against would actually survive it. That's pretty significant too. One last point that often gets forgotten is that Mega Glalie also has access to priority in Ice Shard. It's not great priority, but it's still worth mentioning. Honestly, while Mega Glalie generally sucks, and often will fail to get off the kind of power attacks it should be able to on paper, since its defenses suck, I think the amount of damage it can dish out is still enough to justify it remaining in D-rank

Mega Garchomp - B- -> B - Disagree - Alright, this one's not gonna be as long, since my objection to this is actually fairly straightforward. Garchomp has a lot of things going for it that its Mega form doesn't. The ability to punish physical attackers, more speed, more capabilities as a utility mon, and not taking up a Mega slot. Mega Garchomp, however, is often underrated. It's an excellent mixed attacker, with an excellent offensive movepool, good STABs and typing, and monstrous offensive stats that can get even better for certain moves thanks to Sand Force. The problem is, there's very little call for it outside of Sand teams, since standard Garchomp can also be a great mixed attacker for the reasons mentioned earlier, albeit with lower attacking stats. Mega Garchomp is faced with a lot of opportunity cost, since if you really need a mixed attacker with Garchomp's capabilities, Garchomp does a fine job while not taking up a mega slot. This limits Mega Garchomp's usefulness to being exclusively on Sand teams. Now, sand teams are pretty good at the moment, but I really don't think this one niche puts it at the same level as something like Hydreigon, another good mixed attacker, or Mega Beedrill, something that has a lot of flaws, but still makes for a very effective revenge killer on VoltTurn teams, nor do I think Mega Garchomp is particularly better than Feraligatr or Mega Houndoom that are also currently in B- (in fact I think both of those are actually much better than Mega Garchomp right now). Mega Garchomp can be really good in its niche, but that one niche is not enough to justify it being in anything higher than B-.

In the interest of not getting arrested for saying five lines about a nom that I don't have enough experience with to accurately speak to, which is apparently a felony now, I will not say anything about Zapdos or Torn-T, since I really haven't used either of them, nor can I really say much that hasn't already been said.
 
I don't think anyone was offended by them (and if anyone was offended by the mere mention of Qwilfish in OU, you really need to get a grip people). But yeah, Qwilfish is not good in OU. And you can post on the forums as much as you like. You can even give opinions on nominations people have made on this thread, based on your experiences playing. I just wouldn't recommend actually making any more noms until you're a bit more experienced.



First of all, you're really overreacting. Qwilfish isn't nearly as bad as half the crap nominated on this thread, and he at least did try to give reasoning, even if it was wrong. Also, mods don't normally blacklist stuff based on one nomination that there was very little argument about. They only blacklist stuff that is crap in OU that is getting pushed frequently and causing the thread to devolve in to back and forth bickering if it's brought up. That's specifically stated in the first post by the way.

Well I saw Tauros get blacklisted within a day b/c of 2 posts that turned the chat into cancer for a day or so. Also, I did not mean to come across as harsh as my post reads, so I was not really "overreacting". But Qwilfish as a spike stacker has an absolutely tiny niche, but as a Swift Swim user (as he was proposing) it is outclassed in absolutely every way. Sorry if I seemed like a piece of trash though, I was indeed very cut-and-dry.
 
I don't know man. I recently had a nomination for Arcanine to play the same role as Weezing would, the main difference being pain split or morning sun, which from my experience Arcanine would be the better mon. After all the effort to justify my claim, I was shunned.

While I don't have much of an opinion in regard to Arcanine or Weezing being ranked because I haven't really used either, I would say Weezing seems like it would be the more viable of the pair by a fair amount. It has a considerably better typing and an ability that prevents it from being bopped by ground type STABs or ground coverage from fairies. Also, the difference in entry hazard damage is a huge strike against Arcanine. Again, just pointing this out despite my lack of opinion. I might play around with Weezing or do some calcs and edit later.

Edit: Darth Darkrai makes some good points. No Weezing calcs on the way.

Sorry people on the internet were dicks. You just gotta ignore them and move on. :)

Thoughts on some stuff other people have brought up:

Mega Alakazam - A- to A - Disagree: I stated my opinion a bit before, but I will elaborate some. I've used M-Alakazam a lot, and it is one of the best revenge killers/late game cleaners OU has to offer. It's performance against offense is really fantastic too as it can easily take out several mons if not entire teams. Mega Alakazam also boasts great coverage with only three moveslots, leaving the last slot open for a number of utility options. However, being so frail on the physical side leaves it prone to being revenge killed by pretty much any priority move. I don't have to tell anyone that priority is everywhere, but it is and M-Zam does require considerable team support to make sure these threats are removed. It misses out on outspeeding some important scarfers too, though I will admit being able to outspeed up through Adamant Excadrill is great. Also, being forced to rely on Focus Blast for steels and dark types is painful at best, and a single miss often results in Zam going down. I think Mega-Alakazam is fine in A-.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 135-159 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 169-201 (65.2 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 114-135 (44 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 97-115 (37.4 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 244-288 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 121-144 (46.7 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 209-246 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Glalie - D to Unranked - Agree: I don't have much to add to this, but I've found M-Glalie's performance to be pretty lackluster any time I've tried to use it. It just has too many problems to warrant the use of a mega slot imo - SR weakness, poor speed, meh attacking stats. I don't think being the only physical ice type wall-breaker is enough to justify a niche in OU.
 
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Well I saw Tauros get blacklisted within a day b/c of 2 posts that turned the chat into cancer for a day or so. Also, I did not mean to come across as harsh as my post reads, so I was not really "overreacting". But Qwilfish as a spike stacker has an absolutely tiny niche, but as a Swift Swim user (as he was proposing) it is outclassed in absolutely every way. Sorry if I seemed like a piece of trash though, I was indeed very cut-and-dry.

The difference with Tauros is that a number of people actually pushed for it. I even saw a defender or two outside this thread (I think it was on Don't use that, Use this), and the argument devolved pretty quickly. I think it might have also been brought up before, though I'm not positive on that. Qwilfish is equally terrible in OU, but only one person suggested it, and admitted that it was probably a bad idea. As long as we stop talking about it (after this post of course), it doesn't really need to be blacklisted unless more people start bringing it up and cause this thread to spiral down towards a flame war.

To avoid being complete spam, I'll discuss the other odd nomination of today: Weezing.


Ok I'm going to make a psuedo-nom (more of a discussion starter than anything) on Weezing going Unranked-->D/C-: Weezing is bulky on the physical side (but we all knew that now didn't we?) and it does check/switch in on a number of S/A ranked Pokémon such as Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, non-Psychic Celebi, Mega Lopunny, Mamoswine, non-Psycic Landorus-I, Mega Venusaur, regular Gyarados, unboosted Mega Gyarados, Mega Aerodactyl, Bisharp, Talonflame before SD... you're getting the picture here. Add to this that a large number of Pokémon which can come in and threaten it out in theory - namely Mega Metagross - are discouraged by its access to Will-O-Wisp, making it even more potent as a physical wall. It is generally best on defensively-inclined teams, and it isn't very splashable, which is why I am not nomming it any higher. If you have anything to go against this, feel free to go ahead and say it.

Okay, so it comes in on all those higher-ranked mons, uses Will-O-Wisp, and...then what? No, I'm seriously asking that as a question. What does it do after that? Most of the Will-O-Wisp users in the current OU metagame have a fair amount of utility outside the use of Will-O-Wisp, and are similarly able to switch in on attackers. I'll use Rotom-Wash as an example, since it usually carries Will-O-Wisp, and also has Levitate as an ability. Rotom-Wash has better defensive stats (and it has good stats in BOTH defenses) except in HP, and Weezing's hardly great in that stat either. And Rotom-W's usually run physically defensive anyway, so Weezing still doesn't have much over it in that regard, while Rotom-W has a better SDef to go with that physical def It has the same number of resistances (and unlike Weezing ALL of them are common these days), and its one weakness is arguably rarer than Weezing's one weakness, considering that many teams are going to be running Lati@s or Starmie for hazard removal, while Grass is somewhat common, but not quite as much as Psychic. But more to the point, Rotom-W has a great use thanks to Volt Switch in creating momentum for offensive teams, or switching out to something more appropriate to the opponent's active Pokemon while also dealing a bit of damage to it (unless it's ground-type) for defensive teams. Electric and Water also provide good coverage together, while Poison hits two things supereffectively, and Weezing's other coverage isn't great, iirc. I'm not gonna say that Weezing is useless in OU, because I really haven't seen it in action at all, so I'm basing this comment solely on the objective data on paper. However, I don't see that it has a real niche in OU that something else can't already do better, unless I'm majorly missing something. So I'd say, keep Weezing Unranked.
 
Just wanna say that Mega Alakazam has the tools to get past Bisharp. It can easily Encore it into Sucker Punch and stall it out there, or use Substitute to actually evade it. This thing is actually really hard to beat and hard to Pursuit trap in general, it outspeeds Scarf Tyranitar as well and Focus Blast is a guaranteed OHKO.

Might make longer post about Glalie later on.
 
I have a nomination of my own!
Latias A -> A+
Latias is arguably one of the best offensive supports of the tier, being able to use Defog and Healing wish very effectively. She can come in on Stealth Rocks and Defog as long as Bisharp has been removed from the enemy team, and even if Latias gets trapped by Pursuit she can get a Healing Wish off, avoiding any possible enemy prediction in Sucker Punch, Pursuit, or Knock Off. If the Bisharp decides to go for a Swords Dance the Healing Wish can be used to bring in a contender to the SD at maximum health with no adverse effects. Aside from Bisharp eliminating Latias (though not before a Healing Wish or Draco Meteor is used), she has an incredible amount of team synergies, if not directly beating the top tier threats, then enabling other Pokemon to eliminate them to the best of their abilities. Healing Wish is a massive aid to deal with the hard hitting STABs of Megagross and Keldeo, while outright countering the ladder with Psyshock.

Of course I am not going to parade Latias around as perfect, but she has enough strengths to warrant her use on many Balanced or Bulky Offense teams. Another primary concern when dealing with threats right now is the infamous Landorus-I, a Pokemon that does not do well against Latias unless running Knock Off. If Landorus-I is indeed running Knock Off it is guaranteed NOT to OHKO without a crit if Latias is at maximum health, even on its least bulky variant.
48 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 250-296 (83 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Though living at 1.7% at minimum may not seem impressive, even if Latias is forced to take one of these she will outspeed the next turn (bar Rock Polish Landorus) and retaliate with a large hit, putting Landorus in a range to be brought down by another Pokemon.
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 253-298 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This takes into account the Knock Off removing a Life Orb from Latias, and having Landorus completely healthy with no Stealth Rocks on the enemy side of the field. With Rocks Draco Meteor has a 43.8% chance to OHKO a full health Landorus-I given no defensive investment. If the Landorus does not carry Knock Off then Latias will take 55.1% at maximum from a Modest Sludge Wave with no defensive investment, while having a 56.3% chance to OHKO herself.

To avoid making this nomination an even larger wall of text I will end with some food for thought. Latias' effective use of Healing Wish and Defog place it as a very valuable Pokemon to many teams. It is a very useful team member, aiding other Pokemon in combating the ever present Megagross while dealing with Keldeo to near perfect effectiveness (completely countering HP Electric Keldeo, while still only taking 56.4% from a Choice Specs Icy Wind), in addition to dealing with even a Knock Off Landorus-I to some extent. Able to threaten out many OU threats while supporting the ones it can not hurt, I believe that Latias deserves a position in A+ alongside Clefable, her blue counterpart, and many others.
 
I have a nomination of my own!
Latias A -> A+
Latias is arguably one of the best offensive supports of the tier, being able to use Defog and Healing wish very effectively. She can come in on Stealth Rocks and Defog as long as Bisharp has been removed from the enemy team, and even if Latias gets trapped by Pursuit she can get a Healing Wish off, avoiding any possible enemy prediction in Sucker Punch, Pursuit, or Knock Off. If the Bisharp decides to go for a Swords Dance the Healing Wish can be used to bring in a contender to the SD at maximum health with no adverse effects. Aside from Bisharp eliminating Latias (though not before a Healing Wish or Draco Meteor is used), she has an incredible amount of team synergies, if not directly beating the top tier threats, then enabling other Pokemon to eliminate them to the best of their abilities. Healing Wish is a massive aid to deal with the hard hitting STABs of Megagross and Keldeo, while outright countering the ladder with Psyshock.

Of course I am not going to parade Latias around as perfect, but she has enough strengths to warrant her use on many Balanced or Bulky Offense teams. Another primary concern when dealing with threats right now is the infamous Landorus-I, a Pokemon that does not do well against Latias unless running Knock Off. If Landorus-I is indeed running Knock Off it is guaranteed NOT to OHKO without a crit if Latias is at maximum health, even on its least bulky variant.
48 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 250-296 (83 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Though living at 1.7% at minimum may not seem impressive, even if Latias is forced to take one of these she will outspeed the next turn (bar Rock Polish Landorus) and retaliate with a large hit, putting Landorus in a range to be brought down by another Pokemon.
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 253-298 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This takes into account the Knock Off removing a Life Orb from Latias, and having Landorus completely healthy with no Stealth Rocks on the enemy side of the field. With Rocks Draco Meteor has a 43.8% chance to OHKO a full health Landorus-I given no defensive investment. If the Landorus does not carry Knock Off then Latias will take 55.1% at maximum from a Modest Sludge Wave with no defensive investment, while having a 56.3% chance to OHKO herself.

To avoid making this nomination an even larger wall of text I will end with some food for thought. Latias' effective use of Healing Wish and Defog place it as a very valuable Pokemon to many teams. It is a very useful team member, aiding other Pokemon in combating the ever present Megagross while dealing with Keldeo to near perfect effectiveness (completely countering HP Electric Keldeo, while still only taking 56.4% from a Choice Specs Icy Wind), in addition to dealing with even a Knock Off Landorus-I to some extent. Able to threaten out many OU threats while supporting the ones it can not hurt, I believe that Latias deserves a position in A+ alongside Clefable, her blue counterpart, and many others.

I disagree with this nomination. While Latias can check some critical Pokemon in the tier, it is also one of the easier Pokemon for an opponent to take advantage of. Getting off a Healing Wish if there is an opposing Pursuit user is not necessarily true considering that Latias gets pressured very easily and is forced to take a lot of hits, and common Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Clefable, Mega Gross, and Mega Scizor are all capable of setting up on or handling Latias due to the limited amount of offensive pressure that it is usually forced to run. While Latias provides valuable support and can check some critical threats, there are simply too many Pokemon in OU that can take advantage of Latias to warrant a rise.
 
I disagree with this nomination. While Latias can check some critical Pokemon in the tier, it is also one of the easier Pokemon for an opponent to take advantage of. Getting off a Healing Wish if there is an opposing Pursuit user is not necessarily true considering that Latias gets pressured very easily and is forced to take a lot of hits, and common Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Clefable, Mega Gross, and Mega Scizor are all capable of setting up on or handling Latias due to the limited amount of offensive pressure that it is usually forced to run. While Latias provides valuable support and can check some critical threats, there are simply too many Pokemon in OU that can take advantage of Latias to warrant a rise.
It does not matter how many hits it takes when it comes to Pursuit trapping Bisharp, as it outspeeds and gets a Healing Wish off unless the Bisharp has a scarf (which is unheard of).
Also I never said it counters the tier, but I am proposing that the support it can offer is so valuable to balance to warrant a rise.
 
It does not matter how many hits it takes when it comes to Pursuit trapping Bisharp, as it outspeeds unless the Bisharp has a scarf (which is unheard of).

When it comes to ScarfTar and Weavile, taking a lot of hits can be a very negative factor, which is what I was referring to. I apologize for not making that clear.
 
The nomination of Latias back to A+ is a pretty interesting one. I'm not entirely sure whether I agree with it or not but maybe AM or one of the other members of the ranking team can elaborate on exactly why it dropped in the first place. If that's articulated, it'll be easier to compare Latias' effectiveness under old circumstances and now using those criteria. Basically, if it dropped for reasons X, Y, and Z, but 2/3 of those things have changed in the current metagame perhaps it deserves to go back up, but conversely maybe all 3 hold true still.
 
bludz give me a minute (probably longer lol) to pull up jukain's post awhile ago as to why it dropped in the first place, Latias that is, which I think still applies. I'll edit it in this post.

Edit: On like page 13.
Jukains ranking on Latias said:
Latias should always remain one rank behind Latios IMO and that's because it's much more exploitable than Latios. The extra bulk it has isn't all that relevant for the most part, especially considering the loss in power, and its main niche is Healing Wish, which is effective with offensive partners and is enough to give Latias a pretty solid niche over Latios, but it also means that Latias is much more strapped for moveslots and less versatile than Latios. Latios can run all kinds of sets and variants like Roost + 3 attacks with a variety of coverage options available for the third attack, Roost + Defog for a consistent Defogger and Keldeo check, and Choice Scarf to cripple defensive Pokemon with Trick and revenge kill faster foes like Mega Lopunny especially. More gimmicky, but still effective options like CM and Heal Block can even prove useful for certain teams to enhance Latios's breaking capabilities against more defensively oriented and balanced builds. Latios simply poses a much more multidimensional threat than Latias and this is enough to push it down to A Rank, especially seeing as Latias is typically even more easily taken advantage of by Pokemon like Clefable, Mega Metagross, and Heatran than Latios is.
 
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bludz give me a minute (probably longer lol) to pull up jukain's post awhile ago as to why it dropped in the first place, Latias that is, which I think still applies. I'll edit it in this post.

Edit: On like page 13.
I know you are not the one who posted the Latias down ranking post, but I feel that it is a bit harsh to compare Latios to Latias considering that what they bring to a team is completely different. Latios is one of the strongest threats in A+ due to its massive versatility and power, so comparing an All-Out Attacker/Scarfer to an Offensive Support just seems a bit off to me. But hey, Jukain is far better than me as a player, so I guess I can see where he is coming from.
 
I know you are not the one who posted the Latias down ranking post, but I feel that it is a bit harsh to compare Latios to Latias considering that what they bring to a team is completely different. Latios is one of the strongest threats in A+ due to its massive versatility and power, so comparing an All-Out Attacker/Scarfer to an Offensive Support just seems a bit off to me. But hey, Jukain is far better than me as a player, so I guess I can see where he is coming from.
Their defensive difference is very small, and the small aspect is Healing Wish on Latias with a bit more bulk, not enough to bump it to the same rank as Latios. I quoted that post because it's exactly how I feel about Latias v Latios which is a fair comparison considering they're practically brother and sister mons who serve similar roles as offensive defoggers. Latios simply brings a different dynamic to builds that regular Latias doesn't provide. The majority of conventional switch ins to both Latias and Latios are generally the same but the key difference is that these switch ins to Latios are a bit more shaky than they are to Latias due to that capability of utilizing plenty of sets effectively, which furthers improve its splashability.
 
Lol seriously, why do you guys want to waste a mega slot for a mon who just either explodes or hits a few returns? Glalie is heavily outclassed as a suicide hazard setter (Lando T, Azelf) and faces the hardest mega slot competition in the entire OU meta. Yea, I'll give it kudos for a strong Return, but whats the use of that when a meta is centered around hard hitting mons that decimate Glalie? Keldeo, MMeta, Scizor, Heatran (balloon), MDos, etc. all hurt this thing p bad. Also, it may not have 4MSS, but Freeze Dry is really needed on this and it has to remove one of its moves, and if not its weak to some threats, like Quagsire and Slowbro. IMO a mon with its only viable option is to blow up, + it takes up a mega slot, uuh why would you use this... If i wanted strong returns, I would use a pokemon like pinsir or gardevoir. If i wanted a strong ice type, mamoswine.

IMO I think being outclassed in terms of the role of the mon doesn't matter; MGlalie literally is a waste of a mega slot. Besides some really unviable megas, i really think this thing is outclassed as a mega against nearly every mega just because its so pointless. I mean no one uses this thing in OU or should, so why even rank it tbh?
 
Lol seriously, why do you guys want to waste a mega slot for a mon who just either explodes or hits a few returns? Glalie is heavily outclassed as a suicide hazard setter (Lando T, Azelf) and faces the hardest mega slot competition in the entire OU meta. Yea, I'll give it kudos for a strong Return, but whats the use of that when a meta is centered around hard hitting mons that decimate Glalie? Keldeo, MMeta, Scizor, Heatran (balloon), MDos, etc. all hurt this thing p bad. Also, it may not have 4MSS, but Freeze Dry is really needed on this and it has to remove one of its moves, and if not its weak to some threats, like Quagsire and Slowbro. IMO a mon with its only viable option is to blow up, + it takes up a mega slot, uuh why would you use this... If i wanted strong returns, I would use a pokemon like pinsir or gardevoir. If i wanted a strong ice type, mamoswine.

IMO I think being outclassed in terms of the role of the mon doesn't matter; MGlalie literally is a waste of a mega slot. Besides some really unviable megas, i really think this thing is outclassed as a mega against nearly every mega just because its so pointless. I mean no one uses this thing in OU or should, so why even rank it tbh?

if youre using a hyper offense team with 5 non megas and want a suicide lead, there's a niche in "Hard Hitting Ice Type Suicide Lead" , that is not shared by any Pokemon outside of MGlalie, thus D rank, it's niche is okay in OU, and it's not outclassed by an OU Pokemon in it's niche.
 
Lol seriously, why do you guys want to waste a mega slot for a mon who just either explodes or hits a few returns? Glalie is heavily outclassed as a suicide hazard setter (Lando T, Azelf) and faces the hardest mega slot competition in the entire OU meta. Yea, I'll give it kudos for a strong Return, but whats the use of that when a meta is centered around hard hitting mons that decimate Glalie? Keldeo, MMeta, Scizor, Heatran (balloon), MDos, etc. all hurt this thing p bad. Also, it may not have 4MSS, but Freeze Dry is really needed on this and it has to remove one of its moves, and if not its weak to some threats, like Quagsire and Slowbro. IMO a mon with its only viable option is to blow up, + it takes up a mega slot, uuh why would you use this... If i wanted strong returns, I would use a pokemon like pinsir or gardevoir. If i wanted a strong ice type, mamoswine.

IMO I think being outclassed in terms of the role of the mon doesn't matter; MGlalie literally is a waste of a mega slot. Besides some really unviable megas, i really think this thing is outclassed as a mega against nearly every mega just because its so pointless. I mean no one uses this thing in OU or should, so why even rank it tbh?

Okay, I'd just like to point out that no one on this thread actually said they were gonna use it. That includes its defenders (such as me). I even said in my post that I don't think it's particularly good. Honestly, I actually agree that it's mostly a wasted Mega Slot. The thing of it is, however, that the niche that it does fill is something no other Pokemon can adequately fill. I don't know if it's a good niche, but it is at least a noteworthy niche. Also, I can't remember who it was, but I'm pretty sure someone actually posted a M-Glalie team on the RMT section that made it pretty high up the OU ladder. Again, I'm not saying that it's good in general, but there are certain very specific team designs that can pull it off. Now, for reference, what's the definition of D-rank?

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

That sounds pretty much like Mega Glalie to me. It's something that a few people have managed to find good uses for on select teams, but which is pretty bad everywhere else. So, I'm basing my opinion on the word of the D-rank definition, regardless of my personal feelings about how terrible Glalie is. And quite frankly, you should be too.
 
Their defensive difference is very small, and the small aspect is Healing Wish on Latias with a bit more bulk, not enough to bump it to the same rank as Latios. I quoted that post because it's exactly how I feel about Latias v Latios which is a fair comparison considering they're practically brother and sister mons who serve similar roles as offensive defoggers. Latios simply brings a different dynamic to builds that regular Latias doesn't provide. The majority of conventional switch ins to both Latias and Latios are generally the same but the key difference is that these switch ins to Latios are a bit more shaky than they are to Latias due to that capability of utilizing plenty of sets effectively, which furthers improve its splashability.
I feel you. I as a player just value Healing Wish a lot. So I can see it staying A, but I will still use it. :)
 
Yeah, agreeing with Darth Darkrai here.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

The definition of D rank fits Mega Glalie pretty well. Mega Glalie is definitely viable, and it can work on select teams in need of a powerful wallbreaker that can almost always guarantee at least 1 KO and possibly a few layers of spikes. Mega Glalie is actually a decent wallbreaker that is pretty hard to wall and it can basically always take something down with it with explosion. However, it can't really do much besides that. Mega Glalie does have a bunch of crippling flaws: opportunity cost, low speed (tbh base 100 isn't even that bad for a wallbreaker), bad defensive typing, frail, etc. and these can often prevent it from being successful. (makes it prone to revenge killing, forced out pretty easily, etc.) Mega Glalie certainly is pretty rare and exerts a poor presence on the metagame.

Yeah the definition for D rank fits mega glalie perfectly and it does have a noteworthy niche that no other pokemon in the metagame has.
 
if youre using a hyper offense team with 5 non megas and want a suicide lead, there's a niche in "Hard Hitting Ice Type Suicide Lead" , that is not shared by any Pokemon outside of MGlalie, thus D rank, it's niche is okay in OU, and it's not outclassed by an OU Pokemon in it's niche.
Here is the problem.
Why would i use a mega (mind you) for it to just kill itself? Also, if you want a suicide lead, MGlalie is a horrible pick. It starts out with mediocre 80/80/80 defenses and 80 speed, plus it doesnt have access to Rocks, and Spikes is usually for uuh.. bulky mons like Chesnaught.

The niche for "Hard Hitting Ice Type with much more survivability and has more coverage and less opportunity cost then Glalie and doesnt take up a mega slot but it loses out on killing itself while killing a bulky annoyance like Skarm" is taken by Weavile and Mamoswine. MGlalie has a unique niche, but I dont think its viable... at all. I dont care if it really has a niche or not, but i think you guys are blinded on the "niche" thing. Just because a niche is bad and outclassed doesn't mean it should be the main reasoning for it to be D. I understand you may need this thing for something like suicide, but there are a very few amount of circumstances that you need to use MGlalie for anything. It's only niche is Explosion. I mean i can come to agreement that MGlalie could be D, but if we want to pull the whole "niche" thing then i can probably nominate MBanette to D because of its unique moveset for a Prankster mon, like having Destiny Bond.

I guess even really horrible niches give this guy some sort of ranking... Honestly I've never seen anyone use it in OU, and it comes down to Really specific things with teambuilding to actually be forced to put this on your team. I'm gonna say thats probably the least viable mon in D, but then again they are basically p shitty anyways. Meh, i guess.
 
If you haven't used it or seen it used to a relative extent don't speak on it. That's like an unspoken rule for ranking thread anyways and the majority of this argument is riding on a bunch of questions that I can just read and tell is based on biased and unawareness. Tbf if it actually sucks, then it sucks, doesn't matter if it has some sort of "niche" and I wouldn't get so caught on the definitions. It doesn't take definitions to know Landorus is a huge threat in the meta or that Talonflame is a threat you have to prepare for.

Edit: Also it's a D Rank mega, and ironically the people that are so invested in not wanting it ranked haven't used it or rather use something else, so use something else then lol. I'm not too fond of Goodra but I'm not gonna act like it should just drop simply cause I don't like it or think lowly of it.
 
Mega Glalie - D to Unranked - Disagree: Glalie may be a bit mediocre due to poor defensive typing, mediocre stat distribution, poor matchup against offense, etc, but this thing packs a serious punch and can nuke it's way through unprepared stall and other bulkier archetypes.

Some calcs
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Glalie Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 432-512 (112.2 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 298-352 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and in case of a will o burn
252+ Atk Refrigerate burned Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO glalie still packs a punch
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 372-438 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Glalie's "counters" still have to be weary of switching in.
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 186-220 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (this is a thing on stall with megagross running around right?)
I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of relevant calcs, but Glalie just tears a good chunk of stall mons a new one. Obviously one good matchup doesn't make a mon great, but it's power is undeniable and definitely D rank worthy in my humble opinion.
 
Edit: Also it's a D Rank mega, and ironically the people that are so invested in not wanting it ranked haven't used it or rather use something else, so use something else then lol. I'm not too fond of Goodra but I'm not gonna act like it should just drop simply cause I don't like it or think lowly of it.
im guessing this was aimed towards me, but i dont think of mglalie lowly, in fact i just think its kinda unviable for a mega and has a huge competition for a mega slot.
The problem is is that if no one is using it anyways and people are using much more viable mons instead, thats why people are pushing it to be deranked. not exactly disagreeing with this point but not agreeing either. I don't really understand why you say we are "invested" in it tho, we are just stating our opinion.

Thats all...

To anyone who's actually played against a Glalie you'll realize that it doesn't have an insanely high number of good switch-ins thanks to Refrigerate Double Edge + Freeze-Dry + EQ with Ice Shard STAB. It's not good but I think D rank is fine.

Bludz, if you do decide to run that, you are extremely easy revenge killer bait to HO and its mixed moveset doesnt allow it to really run max attack, which sucks. You also lose out on its main niche which is Explosion.

Its unfortunate 100 base speed really ruins its potential imo. all in all tho it does wall a decent portion of the meta.
 
im guessing this was aimed towards me, but i dont think of mglalie lowly, in fact i just think its kinda unviable for a mega and has a huge competition for a mega slot.
The problem is is that if no one is using it anyways and people are using much more viable mons instead, thats why people are pushing it to be deranked. not exactly disagreeing with this point but not agreeing either. I don't really understand why you say we are "invested" in it tho, we are just stating our opinion.

Thats all...



Bludz, if you do decide to run that, you are extremely easy revenge killer bait to HO and its mixed moveset doesnt allow it to really run max attack, which sucks. You also lose out on its main niche which is Explosion.

Its unfortunate 100 base speed really ruins its potential imo. all in all tho it does wall a decent portion of the meta.
Glalie need only run a neutral nature for Freeze-dry to 2HKO just about everything relevant. No need to invest in special attack. My calcs should have proved that.

Here are some more freeze dry calcs:
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 168-198 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 176-210 (48.2 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 328-388 (89.6 - 106%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (more for fun than anything as double edge 2hkos anyway)
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 192-228 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 212-252 (58.4 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 140-168 (42.2 - 50.7%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (100% if it switches in as vanilla Gyarados)
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Starmie: 200-236 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 128-152 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 168-198 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Mega Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 176-210 (48.3 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

There you go, just about every relevant OU water type. I left a few out that are viable, but these were all A- or higher water type threats.
 
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