Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V5 (See Page 43 - Post #1063)

Zapdos is B+ material at this point, its just that imo it has to choose whether to stop birspamm or to defog. Birdspamm can overwhelm it thanks to Azelf leading with SR. If its double defog or the static set that issue is irrelevant and birspamm cries. Unlike Rotom-W, the second bulky electric of OU, it has reliable recovery which is pretty huge and its movepool makes sure that only a few mons in the tier can get in without paying for it. Martin said the rest already.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok really feel we should do a final update before SuMo comes, and these are the main things I would like to be discussed on before ORAS OU cements itself:


Dugtrio: B- -> B+

Dugtrio has been seeing amazing results due the rise of popularity on many common Stall and Balance teams it is placed on. The amount of threats it could trap is absurd (ie: Heatran, Tyranitar, Weavile, Magnezone, Chansey, and Mega Diancie mainly) and has really pushed the meta to be weary on using these aforementioned mons due to how easily Duggy can trap and KO them with proper play. It really is pushing Stall to how good it is right now as it acts as such a good measure of dealing with common stallbreakers/wallbreakers and I really feel a rise to B+ is deserved at this point.


Zapdos: B -> B+/A-

Zapdos is another pokemon that has risen in popularity at a very high rate these past couple of months due to the fact that its amazing defensive typing and its great bulk allow it to act as a really good Defog user on Semi-Stall and Balance builds. Being able to resist Flying and being immune to Ground are two key proponents to its success on these builds as it allows it to check many scary threats such as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Landorus-T, and Excadrill who all threaten Stall otherwise. ABR and Tele have both been using Zapdos on there semi-stall builds and it has been showcasing huge amounts of success, which is why I feel Zapdos could even rise to A- due to how well it fits in the meta right now (SkarmDos is also an amazing core that I feel more people should use).


Manaphy: A -> A+

So this was brought up before and I totally agree with the nomination. Manaphy was always remained to be a super terrifying threat with its Tail Glow + Rain Dance variants and is now also scary with Tail Glow Psychic variants that beats its most common answer in Mega Venasaur. The fact that it could change the tide of the battle so instantaneously and its ability to break down defensive teams so effortlessly makes me believe Manaphy is really deserving for A+ at this point. Never understood why it sropped from that rank in the first place.


Azumarill: A- -> B+

Azumarill has really been having a hard time to catch up with recent meta trends due to the surge of defensive Grass types that flat out wall it even after the Belly Drum boost. Teams have also started to run checks to it naturally when they teambuild, with things such as Rotom-W, Ferrothorn and Suicune mainly. The bulk increase that the meta has also leaned towards means that +6 Aqua Jets don't actually make the cut at times which leaves Azumarill in really bad situations. It strived in the Zard Z meta, but now I don't feel Azumarill is comparable to the other A- ranks such as Mega Metagross and Bisharp.
 
Hey, the ORAS era ended but this still needs a few updates eventually, remember that Sableye was banned when SM came and there wasn't an update to reflect that, certainly a few mons may be worthy of changing ranks due to that ban but i also have a few nominations or i agree with previous noms and most of them aren't about sab being banned anyway, a few of them had some discussion before too.

Quagsire B -> B- : This one is mostly due to Sableye's ban, i don't think that Quagsire is good enough for B, it only fits on hard stall teams and that kind of team is worse due to lack of Mega Sableye and isn't the most important mon on stall, Clefable is a better Unaware user overall due to more utility to the team and it can check some specially offensive boosting sweepers, Quag's spD makes every decently strong sp attacker destroy it. Not saying that Quag is bad, it checks a fair number of physical setup sweepers, it's just that it fits on very specific teams only and those teams became less viable when MSab went to ubers.

Hydreigon B -> B+ : Choice Specs Hydreigon is really threatening, it basically has no counters outside of AV Azumarill (very rare and not so good) and Chansey, who almost only appears on hard stall (again less common due to sab ban). We've discussed this before and yeah, Hydreigon is really great, i've been using it alot recently and never disappointed me and i also freak out when the opponent sends Hydreigon against me because Draco Meteor is strong as always and the difference between it and Latios is that Hydreigon wallbreaks better than it, spD Jirachi is more common than ever and while that hard walls Latios, it is roasted by Dark Pulse and Latios needs extra coverage and some prediction to get past other steels and Specs Hydreigon basically just uses Dark Pulse and does alot of damage to them, not to mention it resists Pursuit. Yeah, Draco is a heavy nuke and Dark Pulse is a consistent STAB with no drawbacks that hits some mons super effectively, Dragon resists usually take super effective damage, or atleast heavy damage from a Dark Pulse and Dark resists such as Keldeo are always prone to get bombed by Draco. Looking at the other mons in B/B+, Hydra certainly seems more viable than Mega Aero, regular Alakazam, Mega Altaria which are in B and i don't think it's any less threatening than Gengar, Nidoking and Volcanion as a wallbreaker, which are in B+.

Diggersby B- -> B : Diggersby is a massive wallbreaker with its CB set and it can sweep if it has SD, it somehow reminds me of Mega Medicham because those physical walls take a ton from its STABs, if it scores a 2hko on Mega Slowbro after SR with a Band set, you know what it's capable of, ground + normal is a good dual STAB combo and many teams struggle to switch in against it, CB is supposedly the best set but i personally prefer SD even if it doesn't have a ton of opportunities to setup but it can't switch moves regardless, even if it doesn't click SD and if it does, it basically 1hko's the entire tier atleast after SR and +2 LO quick attack beats those frailer mons that attemp to revenge kill but it's overall a scary breaker and i think it could rise.

Cobalion C- -> C/C+ : I don't think Cobalion is too niche-mon to be only C-... It mainly deals with Bish/Weav and has a fair matchup against other threats, not going too in-depth because other users like Martin already covered this, it has a unique defensive typing, learns SR and it is more versatile than what people may think, being able to use for example a Substitute + Calm Mind set, it just seems wrong to see such a pokemon ranked so low given that there are certainly more reasons to include Cobalion on a serious competitive team than for example Mega Aggron and Conkeldurr.

Azelf C -> C+ : There isn't much to say here because everybody already knows what it does, it's the best lead on hyper offense because it lays stealth rock pretty consistently, being able to taunt the opposing rocks setter too and uses Explosion afterwards, this should have went to C+ before because hyper offense teams were already common and good and without Mega Sableye it can afford to run Iron Tail + Taunt now so it doesn't have to rely on Skill Swap for Diancie and get screwed if she doesn't mega evolve or run Skill Swap + Iron Tail like gamer boy and then let Heatran or whatever get Stealth Rock against it.

Maybe posting more nominations later in this post if i see anything else that could change ranks.
 

hecatomb

Banned deucer.
I still think Zard-x is, A-tier or A+. Mostly due if you start with Landorus-Therian or even Hippowdon, hes going to die to earthquake, stone edge, stealth rock nonsense.
 

Hilomilo

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We've had as crazy a ride as Quagsire this generation, and it really is sad to see how dead this thread is (lol), but there definitely needs to be a final update so that some of the mons in the rankings are accurately represented. Specifically, I'd like to go over some of the stuff that I really think needs to happen before this thread is closed, since there are a LOT of mons that really aren't being represented very well within their current rankings right now. and yes I did a post like this already but I have a lot of stuff I want to talk about this time as well. Here's what I think should happen in the final update.

Cobalion up to C+/C - This is one that I've been pushing for for a really long time, and I will continue to advocate for Cobalion's rise, since it's really just an insult for the thing to be ranked alongside crap like Staraptor, Cofag and Goodra. It's not a great Pokemon by any means, but cmon guys, it has a great speed tier alongside stealth rock, taunt, pivoting capabilities and the ability to 1v1 Weavile and Bisharp with ease. It offers your team fantastic role compression and in no way should stay in C-.

Zapdos and Mega Manectric should switch ranks - Another one I've talked about in the past, and yeah, these two really need to switch ranks if we want to represent the meta as accurately as possible. Mega Manectric has been responding poorly to metagame trends for a long time now, and really has no way to deal with the rise in ground type scarfers and Mega Lopunny and Medicham, which both give it competition as a mega and 1v1 it easily. On the other hand, Zapdos is able to function as a sturdier check to bird spam given its flying type and static to punish pivoting and choice-locked Excadrill, and is able to tank the fighting megas' fighting stabs while threatening to paralyze, all without a mega stone. Overall, Zapdos can just do way more for your team as an electric than Mega Mane, as the former is just more versatile in every area than the latter.

Gliscor down to B+ - This one's old news by now, but that news is still valid. Let me make myself clear that in nomming Gliscor down I am NOT suggesting that it's a worse Landorus, but that Landorus' presence in the tier definitely hurts it. Landy is just a fantastic pick for your team given its amazing role compression for any archetype, and given the weakness stacking you'll be doing in putting Gliscor on your team as well, that isn't such a great idea. Furthermore, Gliscor sharing a type with Lando means that everything that's carrying coverage for Lando will automatically be prepared for Gliscor. Lastly, even Gliscor's niche as a good mon against bulkier builds is being compromised due to those builds carrying pokemon that can take care of it with ease, like Manaphy. This guy's still great, but really not cutting it enough to be A material at this point.

Mega Gardevoir down to B+, Mega Metagross up to A - Here we have two mega evolutions that are both being misrepresented in A-, but on different sides of the spectrum. Mega Gardevoir has lots of offensive prowess, but hasn't adapted at all to the rise in scarfed Exacdrill and Lando-T. It's also obliterated by Mega Lopunny, a mon that on paper it should beat, and really just isn't as consistent as any other mega in A- right now. Mega Metagross, on the other hand, is really just thriving in the current meta. It's fat, powerful as hell and fast at the same time, and has responded really well to Mega Sableye's absence, given that one of the only things it didn't tear right through just left the tier and left it with less reliable answers. Move that beast on up.

Azelf up to B-/C+ - Another example of a mon that's gotten even better in Mega Sableye's absence. Now that Mega Diancie is the only relevant mon that discourages it from setting up hazards, it can opt to run iron tail over skill swap and almost always guarantee that it's getting rocks down. Azelf is without a doubt the best suicide lead available and deserves much more recognition for that than C, especially among stuff like Entei and Mega Pidgeot.

Mega Heracross down to A- - Last one I promise. I'm not totally sure if this has been brought up before, but Mega Heracross really doesn't feel like an A rank mon to me anymore. Its got a hell of a stall breaking set still, but is now so prepared for by bulkier builds - which its supposed to be best against - that it's now harder for it to do its job than before and it feels equal in viability to Mega Pinsir considering both the mega's pros and cons.
Edit: Forgot to mention that with Mega Sableye gone, players are less inclined to use stall, which also hurts it a little bit. Also while I'm here, Mega Heracross isn't my last nom lol.

Mega Ampharos to go unranked - Honestly, why is this thing even in D anymore. I get that its a little bulkier than Zapdos and a hell of a lot bulkier than Manectric, but those are literally the only perks there will ever be to using it considering its higher power goes to waste given that awful speed tier. Mega Ampharos is simply just dead weight most of the time, as its too slow to even dent the stuff that threatens it like Lando-T and Excadrill, and is wasting your opportunity to use a much more consistent and beneficial mega, like literally anything else that's ranked. Furthermore, this guy's just totally eclipsed as a defensive electric by Zapdos, who can actually deal with grounds (pretty set in stone at this point that bulky electrics require ground immunities), has reliable recovery and isn't destroyed by the tier's plethora of dragons, such as Lati@s, Zard X, Hydreigon and Kyurem. Speaking of all these dragons that destroy Amphy, what's the point in running it over any of them 99% of the time when these guys all pair well with Zapdos anyway?

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! And of course, thanks so much to the amazing council for doing the best job possible managing this thread. Please consider these changes, and enjoy gen 7! :)
 
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Though I'm new to smogon, I've been playing showdown for quite a while. I believe that quagsire should be replaced in ou or at least uu even with the new threat of kartana. There are so many new set up sweepers introduced in during gen 7 like kommo-o and pretty much all the ultra beasts. Pokemon like quagsire will outstall almost every pokemon in pu because down in pu most pokemon have to set up to become a threat which will not do anything to an unaware quagsire.
 
Though I'm new to smogon, I've been playing showdown for quite a while. I believe that quagsire should be replaced in ou or at least uu even with the new threat of kartana. There are so many new set up sweepers introduced in during gen 7 like kommo-o and pretty much all the ultra beasts. Pokemon like quagsire will outstall almost every pokemon in pu because down in pu most pokemon have to set up to become a threat which will not do anything to an unaware quagsire.
Hello! Welcome to Smogon!

This is actually the ORAS Viability Ranking Thread. If you want to check out the SuMo Viability Ranking Thread, there is a preliminary one right here.
 

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