Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[Reffrey]

The doubles meta and the singles meta are two different entities. Just because something is good in Doubles does not mean it is good in Singles.

Obviously. But that replay is not entirely meaningless and is relevant to the ubers metagame. That guy used his arceus-flying for trick room, and picked that specific form for a reason. He could have used any other arceus form for the same task, but he chose arceus-flying due to how it fit well with his team and didn't suffer as much oppurtunity cost as some of the other arceus forms that he could have used to fill it's roll.

 

[kingmidas]

Obviously. But that replay is not entirely meaningless and is relevant to the ubers metagame. That guy used his arceus-flying for trick room, and picked that specific form for a reason. He could have used any other arceus form for the same task, but he chose arceus-flying due to how it fit well with his team and didn't suffer as much oppurtunity cost as some of the other arceus forms that he could have used to fill it's roll.

we're the Singles ubers metagames, are rankings are not indicative of mons viability in ubers doubles.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Arceus-flying can run the calm mind- refresh - recover - judgment set. It doesn't have as much opportunity cost as several other arceus forms such as fire, electric, grass, psychic, and ice. It's also not too bad offensively as it can become fairly powerful after 1 or 2 calm mind boosts, and there aren't too many strong ubers pokemon that resist its stab judgment. With max defense and a bold nature it can own pdon even if pdon carries stone edge(stone edge misses a lot anyway). It's usually weak to primal kyogre but after 2 calm mind boosts it can handle pogre's thunder just fine. I've used it in ubers singles to test it out and it's not really that bad. It's like an arceus fairy but with more weaknesses. C rank seems to low for it. It's not any worse than arceus poison and arceus grass. Seems like there are too many arceus forms clumped in C rank. I advocate for moving it up to C+ and B- at maximum. Not an entirely useless poke.

Well it obviously does have an opportunity cost. Why run that set over Darkceus?

 

[Reffrey]

we're the Singles ubers metagames, are rankings are not indicative of mons viability in ubers doubles.

Dude, I already said the word "obviously," indicating that I was already well aware of what you just told me. Try rereading what I said. Seems u misunderstood.

 

[Reffrey]

Dude, I already said the word "obviously," indicating that I was already well aware of what you just told me. Try rereading what I said. Seems u misunderstood.

I'm not saying that flyingceus is a good mon, just that it's better than the other arceus forms that are currently C rank. Arceus dark is way better, but it has a weakness to fairy, so there are extremely rare instances in which flying arceus can be used on a team for good reason. People don't really use flyceus, and so they simply assume that it's pretty much useless. However, I assure u that it can function well on a good ubers team, despite how it pails in comparison to some other arceus forms. Moving it up to C+ seems reasonable. C+ isn't much better than C anyway so it's not such a big change.

 

[Reffrey]

oops I meant to quote jernmax on that. Sorry

 

[Imperator Romanum]

You really shouldn't triple post, there's an edit button. Oh, and welcome to Smogon.
If Arceus flying can only preform one role and that certain role is preformed way better it has no niche. Bird spam is nice, but Salamence does that way better. Using Arceus-flying only for its certain typing, but using a set preformed better by another arceus form is not enough to get it higher ranked

 

[Dilwar]

Ugh enough with Arceus-Flying. Okay, it's a bad mon, but just better than some other worse forms like Fire and Bug. Put it to C+. Nothing more.

 

[Reffrey]

Ugh enough with Arceus-Flying. Okay, it's a bad mon, but just better than some other worse forms like Fire and Bug. Put it to C+. Nothing more.

Dude I completely agree with you. :)

 

[Gorechomp]

Mega Mewtwo X: B+ - A-

Reasons: Not only does it sport the best base attack stat in the game but Mewtwo X is extremely easy to set up with, especially since most people think you are either life orb, specs, or Y. One Bulk Up is all it need to sweep through any team baring Arceus Ghost or a Scarfed Special Attacker.

+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Stone Edge vs. 24 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 508-598 (127.3 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 326-384 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 391-462 (121.4 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zekrom: 336-396 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 476-562 (135.6 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 420-494 (110.2 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The defense boost also helps with dealing any damage from scarfers or Priority users
+1 184 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- 72.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 172-204 (48.7 - 57.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 214-253 (60.6 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X: 290-344 (82.1 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Mewtwo is SERIOUSLY underrated and deserves more respect. I have swept countless people JUST TODAY on the Ubers ladder using Mewtwo X and its sad that such a good Mon doesn't the respect that Mewtwo Y gets.

 

[Disaster Area]

>scarf Zekrom/Ray/..Latias [these are bad or at least underwhelming sets]
>not mentioning sableye as an answer [the #1 answer to it on stall]

I think MM2X is very under-rated atm but I don't agree with your reasoning.

Maybe someone more experienced can give it a more comprehensive overview and discussion? :)

 

[8-BIT Luster]

I vote moving Bronzong up to B- and swapping Scolipede and Greninja. Reasoning why tomorrow too tired

Quick reasoning for zong
decent xerneas check
hardwalls mence (especially if zong rolls with hp ice which 2hkoes speedy mence)
Solid answer to stone Edge EKiller and PDon without a fire move (answer is the wrong word but it pivots well)
Beats Lugia 1v1
Puts half the meta on a timer with Toxic which it can set up ez
its cheeks are its eyes

 

[kingmidas]

I vote moving Bronzong up to B- and swapping Scolipede and Greninja. Reasoning why tomorrow too tired

Quick reasoning for zong
decent xerneas check
hardwalls mence (especially if zong rolls with hp ice which 2hkoes speedy mence)
Solid answer to stone Edge EKiller and PDon without a fire move (answer is the wrong word but it pivots well)
Beats Lugia 1v1
Puts half the meta on a timer with Toxic which it can set up ez
its cheeks are its eyes

On that note I haven't really talked about the set on smogon that much but on PS people know I've been testing offensive otr bronzong and it hits like a fucking truck with explosion earthquake and gyro ball

 

[kingmidas]

It's a bad Xern check.
Doesn't wall Mence at all.

Hide

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 170-201 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 118-139 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Salamence can run Refresh or even Sub so Toxic is not a reliable solution at all

Beats Stone Edge EKiller, but most EKiller still run Shadow Claw and Fire-type coverage still does exist.
Most P Don run a Fire-type move.
Pretty much outclassed by other Steel-types for any niche.

Really it should be removed entirely.

He mentioned hp ice, also it only needs max hp to check xerneas

 

[Imperator Romanum]

He mentioned hp ice, also it only needs max hp to check xerneas

0 SpA Bronzong Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Mega Salamence: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO It doesn't 2HKO and Salamence sets up on it.

 

[kingmidas]

0 SpA Bronzong Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Mega Salamence: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO It doesn't 2HKO and Salamence sets up on it.

he said speedy, I'm not even advocating it just mentioning what he said.

 

[Prinz]

Bronzong is bad, it's setup bait for the most part of the tier and it isn't very good at checking Mence or Xern. It should drop if any, but definitely not rise imo.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Bronzong is bad, it's setup bait for the most part of the tier and it isn't very good at checking Mence or Xern. It should drop if any, but definitely not rise imo.

It also baits Primal Ground and Primal Kyogre

 

[8-BIT Luster]

You gotta run a certain spread
ill put It up later

You honestly don't expect Bronzong to beat Mega Salamence, Xerneas, Primal Groudon AND Arceus all at once, do you? No. I never use Bronzong as a primary Xerneas check because it takes heavy damage from Focus Blast, like everything else. However, if it's necessary, you have a 50/50 shot of coming out on top.

Hardwalls is the wrong term to use versus Mega Salamence, as Bronzong has no reliable recovery making it tough taking repeated hits. Hidden Power Ice has an 85% chance to 2HKO 0/0 mega Salamence, which is kind of nice, I guess.

While i personally use Shadow Claw Arceus, Stone Edge Arceus is certainly popular, and Physically Defensive (as splitting up the EVs really only makes it take hits weaker on both sides than if you just invested in one stat.) Bronzong has no problem eating up hits from it.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 104-123 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is SE Arceus' best move against that.
Non-Fire move Primal Groudon is also relatively common (RELATIVELY.)
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 50-59 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's niche as fuck, but it can do its job.
tbh I really don't mind if Zong stays at C+, I can see why it's outclassed, but it does possess certain advantages, notably not dying to Ground moves.

Seriously though can someone explain to me why Greninja is higher up than Scolipede? Protean is pretty neat but I'm just not seeing the advantages.

 

[brokenwings]

You gotta run a certain spread
ill put It up later

You honestly don't expect Bronzong to beat Mega Salamence, Xerneas, Primal Groudon AND Arceus all at once, do you? No. I never use Bronzong as a primary Xerneas check because it takes heavy damage from Focus Blast, like everything else. However, if it's necessary, you have a 50/50 shot of coming out on top.

Hardwalls is the wrong term to use versus Mega Salamence, as Bronzong has no reliable recovery making it tough taking repeated hits. Hidden Power Ice has an 85% chance to 2HKO 0/0 mega Salamence, which is kind of nice, I guess.

While i personally use Shadow Claw Arceus, Stone Edge Arceus is certainly popular, and Physically Defensive (as splitting up the EVs really only makes it take hits weaker on both sides than if you just invested in one stat.) Bronzong has no problem eating up hits from it.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 104-123 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is SE Arceus' best move against that.
Non-Fire move Primal Groudon is also relatively common (RELATIVELY.)
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 50-59 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's niche as fuck, but it can do its job.
tbh I really don't mind if Zong stays at C+, I can see why it's outclassed, but it does possess certain advantages, notably not dying to Ground moves.

Seriously though can someone explain to me why Greninja is higher up than Scolipede? Protean is pretty neat but I'm just not seeing the advantages.

Greninja's most notable advantage over Scolipede is that it's actually able to keep its hazards from being removed, being able to out-speed and taunt every defogger, and (unreliably) spin-block with Shadow Sneak.

 

[8-BIT Luster]

Greninja's most notable advantage over Scolipede is that it's actually able to keep its hazards from being removed, being able to out-speed and taunt every defogger, and (unreliably) spin-block with Shadow Sneak.

And conversely, Scolipede can run that endeavor/ pin missile stuff and take down, or at least cripple, an opposing mon. If it gets taunt (i think it does) it has no room to run it without sacrificing a valuable move. I generally prefer Scolipede but I can see Ninja's advantages. Is there any reason why it's B- though and not something lower?

 

[SG-58]

And conversely, Scolipede can run that endeavor/ pin missile stuff and take down, or at least cripple, an opposing mon. If it gets taunt (i think it does) it has no room to run it without sacrificing a valuable move. I generally prefer Scolipede but I can see Ninja's advantages. Is there any reason why it's B- though and not something lower?

Scolipede, unfortunately, doesn't get taunt. Might it be B- just because of speed boost (and ofc hazards/bp)?

 

[8-BIT Luster]

Scolipede, unfortunately, doesn't get taunt. Might it be B- just because of speed boost (and ofc hazards/bp)?

Scolipede is c+

 

[SG-58]

Scolipede is c+

Was it moved recently? I was quoting your post (where it said B-) without actually checking ._.

EDIT: I'm dumb. You were talking about Greninja, weren't you?

 

[DoubleOD]

Ferrothorn may actually be underrated at B. It may actually be the best Stealth Rock setter in the meta because there isn't a single defogger that can touch it. They all lose to Leech Seed and you keep your rocks up (because Ferrothorn is slower, they defog, lose health to Leech Seed and you put your rocks straight back up). Mega-Diancie sure isn't going to switch into Ferro for fear of Gyro Ball OHKO.

Unless the meta shifts to the point where things are running HP Fire again.