ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[r0ady]

Nomming galvantula up to B/B+ (shoutouts to YABO for planting idea in my head)

I believe this has been brought up in former VRs but never actually moved up, so i might just end up repeating points. So playing against the offensive lo variant of this mon is actually really annoving for offense and balance as its dual stab proves to be incredibly hard to switch into, not to mention having grass coverage to hit grounds such as donphan, pert, and mamo quite a bit harder. The main niches this mon possesses over heliolisk cant just be overlooked as many people seem to do and scream "WHY ARE YOU USING GALV HELIOS BETTER." These include access to sticky web which is a very unique entry hazard that only galvantula possess while having a strong offensive presence at the same time, and having accurate thunders to make up in the power gap between it and helio.

252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 148-175 (20.7 - 24.5%)

252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 133-156 (18.6 - 21.8%)

 

[Cheryl.]

Nominating Tornadus to A-
Tornadus is amazing. It has great mixed attacking stats, awesome 111 speed, and two great abilities in Prankster and Defiant. It is one of the best things to use on rain teams as it synergizes extremely well with Mega Swampert and can use Prankster Rain Dance to great effect, making it's STAB Hurricane 100% accurate. It also has great coverage in moves like Focus Blast and Grass Knot, and it can use U-Turn for momentum and Taunt too. It also has the physically based Defiant set, that takes advantage of Defog users and Intimidate users like Krookodile. Problems with Tornadus include it's bad bulk, and a weakness to Stealth Rock doesn't help either, and without rain up, Hurricane is not that accurate, but Tornadus is a really cool mon and should rise.

 

[Malin]

I strongly disagree with Heracross moving down. I've been playing with Heracross since it moved down from OU in every ORAS UU meta, because Heracross is, simply saying, one of the most solids Fighting types and wallbreakers in UU - Mienshao being the other one. While Mienshao have a great speed tie along with two great abilities (although Reckless should always be used over Regenerator imo), it is a frail mon that doesn't have a reliable STAB - Doublade severely hurts Mienshao viability, as any scarf variant is now more afraid of clicking HJK than ever, while HJK itself misses more than it should (any Mienshao user can confirm this).

Heracross on the other hand have Close Combat which arguably is the best Fighting STAB a mon could have - worst case cenario u get disapointed by missing and click Knock Off/switch out without losing half of ur life in the process. Heracross also have two great abilities in Moxie and Guts. Truly it's being sometime since I saw Moxie in use, since it's kind outclassed with Salamence around, but Guts make it up for Hera. With fat mons like P2, Cresselia, Reuniclus, Umbreon, Empoleon, Snorlax, Mega Aggron, etc in rise, I think Heracross is one of the best wallbreakers around. If it have a free switch in, something will die or at least get severely hurted. Base 85 Spe is no joking and put pressure in dozens of balance/stall buildings. I think only Fatmence has an ez time switch in Hera dual STAB and tbh, after playing my Hera against a few Fatmences, if u manage to keep rocks up, Fatmence isn't as reliable as it sounds, since it won't like losing his Leftovers and it have to be Jolly to outspeed opposing Jolly Hera. If Bold,

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 176-208 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So yeah, Heracross is a monster. SD Orb Hera is also huge - it's like having a Band without being locked, and boosted Facades is a great coverage along with CC/Knock Off, but it certainly need some recovery options, or else your opponent can try to outplay you until you passively die. I found that Cresselia with Lunar Dance paired extremely well in this case for offense buildings, since it let you play very agreesively with Hera and then have a second chance when your opponent thinks it's your end. Just some thoughts.

For last, I've been using SD Leftover Heracross for a few months, and the leftover recovery really helps Heracross longetivity. It makes it easier to switch on rocks and tank some weak moves from common walls. I'm using some SpD investment to help it tanks Scalds better, and it's being very useful.

TBF I'd advocate for a Heracross bump to A+ but I don't think the commUUnity would approve this, so I will just say to keep Heracross A Rank.

 

[Omfuga]

I wasn't nominating heracross to drop. Just stating that in my opinion it isn't worry of A-rank... However, I understand that not all of my opinions are shared by the community lol

 

[Malin]

I wasn't nominating heracross to drop. Just stating that in my opinion it isn't worry of A-rank... However, I understand that not all of my opinions are shared by the community lol

oh srry i didnt meant to offend in any way, i just got a lil confused n_n

that case I approve Hera bump to A+ n_n some showcase replays for this nom:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-241858561 - me losing in a gg but also showcase how Fatmence, the most reliable answer for Hera, isn't that reliable.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-241862025 - Heracross puts a immense pressure in balance builds

i have some Heracross replay where it single handle a stall team with Lunar Dance support. im going to lunch and when i get back i dig for it ^^

edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-242904975 mali delivery

 

[lllg17]

I'm here saying keep Torn B+. I recently used Torn on a hazard stacking team which was really bad and lost a bunch (though I destroyed DaSpoofy 's ass) and it really put in the work with Agility+Defiant. However, it does not have the best stats in the world and its move pool is pretty lacking. I understand that it gets a bunch of special attacks, but it's physical attacks are really lackluster. I mean, superpower, knock off, and acrobatics... Giga Impact? That's it. Sure Defiant is awesome, but Torn can't even beat the most common defoggers like Crobat or Mence. Without just going for knock off. And hoping the opponent doesn't Brave Bird or Draco. Even if you don't have an item and OHKO both with acrobatics, you're still vulnerable to priority From something like a Doublade (really popular) or a Mamoswine (ditto). The defiant set is definitely B+. The special set is just plain outclassed by Drei or Helio, albeit slightly different. Max B+. Now is the rain setter prankster set good enough to be A-? I'd say no. While having great coverage in FocusMiss, Grass Knot, Thunder, Hurricane, and sludge wave, I don't thunk that it is strong enough or versatile enough to have more than a few small niches in the UU meta game. Imo it's very on-par with the other B ranked Pokémon.

 

[Pipotchi]

Nominating Tornadus to A-
Tornadus is amazing. It has great mixed attacking stats, awesome 111 speed, and two great abilities in Prankster and Defiant. It is one of the best things to use on rain teams as it synergizes extremely well with Mega Swampert and can use Prankster Rain Dance to great effect, making it's STAB Hurricane 100% accurate. It also has great coverage in moves like Focus Blast and Grass Knot, and it can use U-Turn for momentum and Taunt too. It also has the physically based Defiant set, that takes advantage of Defog users and Intimidate users like Krookodile. Problems with Tornadus include it's bad bulk, and a weakness to Stealth Rock doesn't help either, and without rain up, Hurricane is not that accurate, but Tornadus is a really cool mon and should rise.

but whats changed that makes tornadus better? it always had all of these traits

 

[lllg17]

A change in viability does not necessarily mean a change in the specific sets of a Pokémon or a change to the metagame. A change in viability can reflect an increase or decrease in usage as players learn more about how a Pokémon fits with the metagame. Tornados, for example, is not the most used Pokémon. Though, with strong flying types become more popular (Pidgeot) and stall becoming one of the better play styles, hazard stacking teams have risen in usage and viability, making Tornadus's ability Defiant better and better. The same goes for rain teams. With mons like Krookodile and Salamence rising in viability and usage, mons like Swampert and Kingdra have gotten better along with Torn's rain set. This is how Torn might rise in viability, though I don't believe it should. The changes to the metagame haven't been so drastic as to make Torn that much more viable. Lol this is the only place where I can practice my argumentative reasoning in a shout-free environment. Thank you moderators.

 

[Pipotchi]

A change in viability does not necessarily mean a change in the specific sets of a Pokémon or a change to the metagame. A change in viability can reflect an increase or decrease in usage as players learn more about how a Pokémon fits with the metagame. Tornados, for example, is not the most used Pokémon. Though, with strong flying types become more popular (Pidgeot) and stall becoming one of the better play styles, hazard stacking teams have risen in usage and viability, making Tornadus's ability Defiant better and better. The same goes for rain teams. With mons like Krookodile and Salamence rising in viability and usage, mons like Swampert and Kingdra have gotten better along with Torn's rain set. This is how Torn might rise in viability, though I don't believe it should. The changes to the metagame haven't been so drastic as to make Torn that much more viable. Lol this is the only place where I can practice my argumentative reasoning in a shout-free environment. Thank you moderators.

Well this is exactly what I mean- the environment hasnt changed drastically enough for Tornadus to move up imo. (I think you're agreeing with me here?...) It just seems pointless to make a post on why tornadus should move up, and then just read directly from the oras uu analysis. Like if tornadus should move up, then lets talk about how it directly fits into the current metagame based on the rankings of other mons, or how it successfully deals with with high tier threats. Perhaps if we talked about Mega Swampert being on the rise, and tornadus rising with it as a secondary rain setter that deals with grass types (just some random example i pulled out my butt) then that makes sense. Personally I dont think Tornadus is unexplored enough (has an oras uu analysis) to validate it raising due to it being previously undiscovered, something which i do think is valid for moltres' rising thanks to its RU status and lack of uu analysis.

Im not disagreeing with anything you said for the record, i just think people could make more effort with their nominations (no shade plz)

 

[Cheryl.]

Well this is exactly what I mean- the environment hasnt changed drastically enough for Tornadus to move up imo. (I think you're agreeing with me here?...) It just seems pointless to make a post on why tornadus should move up, and then just read directly from the oras uu analysis. Like if tornadus should move up, then lets talk about how it directly fits into the current metagame based on the rankings of other mons, or how it successfully deals with with high tier threats. Perhaps if we talked about Mega Swampert being on the rise, and tornadus rising with it as a secondary rain setter that deals with grass types (just some random example i pulled out my butt) then that makes sense. Personally I dont think Tornadus is unexplored enough (has an oras uu analysis) to validate it raising due to it being previously undiscovered, something which i do think is valid for moltres' rising thanks to its RU status and lack of uu analysis.

Im not disagreeing with anything you said for the record, i just think people could make more effort with their nominations

U hurt my soul, Darumaka.

 

[ManOfMany]

Poliwrath from Unranked to C

I have been using Poliwrath a lot lately, and it has put in a good amount of work. It definitely does have a niche in this bulky-water infested metagame as a counter to Suicune, Mega Sharpedo, Feraligatr, Empoleon, and other pokemon. Here's one set I have been playing with:

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Encore/ Ice Punch
- Waterfall

This set gets up a free substitute on Suicune, Empoleon, Vaporeon, and Ice Beam Blastoise with ease, allowing it to slam the switch-in with a powerful Focus Punch. Due to the greatness of encore, much more opportunities become available if you play smart. It is as simple as encoring a Swampert into Stealth Rock, or encoring an Umbreon into Wish. Alternately, Ice Punch could be used to beat Salamence.

What makes this set nice, besides beating Bulky Waters, is that it is actually fairly hard to play around. For example, a CM Reuniclus at low health could switch into waterfall, tanking it fairly well. It would probably use Recover next turn, but if the Poliwrath stays in, it could Encore the Recover, giving Poliwrath momentum and forcing it to switch out.

Poliwrath @ Choice Band/ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
- Ice Punch
- Encore/ Poison Jab

This is another set I have used to decent effect. The premise is simple- get a switch into something you wall (say, Feraligatr or Suicune) and start spamming Circle Throw. With some good hazards thrown, Circle Throw can really hurt the opponent's team. This set also has few counters with a band equipped (basically just Cress and Reuni) due to the intense coverage.

Of course, Poliwrath has major downsides as well. It is slow and has no reliable recovery, and also has 5 fairly common weaknesses. However, it is hard to ignore its strengths, and when one is teambuilding something that is weak to offensive and bulky water types, or needs a strong phazer, Poliwrath becomes a usable choice.


Replays!!! (more to come)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-251789880
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-250604863

 

[Choice Banned]

Poliwrath from Unranked to D

I have been using Poliwrath a lot lately, and it has put in a good amount of work. It definitely does have a niche in this bulky-water infested metagame as a counter to Suicune, Mega Sharpedo, Feraligatr, Empoleon, and other pokemon. Here's one set I have been playing with:

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Encore/ Ice Punch
- Waterfall

This set gets up a free substitute on Suicune, Empoleon, Vaporeon, and Ice Beam Blastoise with ease, allowing it to slam the switch-in with a powerful Focus Punch. Due to the greatness of encore, much more opportunities become available if you play smart. It is as simple as encoring a Swampert into Stealth Rock, or encoring an Umbreon into Wish. Alternately, Ice Punch could be used to beat Salamence.

What makes this set nice, besides beating Bulky Waters, is that it is actually fairly hard to play around. For example, a CM Reuniclus at low health could switch into waterfall, tanking it fairly well. It would probably use Recover next turn, but if the Poliwrath stays in, it could Encore the Recover, giving Poliwrath momentum and forcing it to switch out.

Poliwrath @ Choice Band/ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Circle Throw
- Ice Punch
- Encore/ Poison Jab

This is another set I have used to decent effect. The premise is simple- get a switch into something you wall (say, Feraligatr or Suicune) and start spamming Circle Throw. With some good hazards thrown, Circle Throw can really hurt the opponent's team. This set also has few counters with a band equipped (basically just Cress and Reuni) due to the intense coverage.

Of course, Poliwrath has major downsides as well. It is slow and has no reliable recovery, and also has 5 fairly common weaknesses. However, it is hard to ignore its strengths, and when one is teambuilding something that is weak to offensive and bulky water types, or needs a strong phazer, Poliwrath becomes a usable choice.


Replays!!! (more to come)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-251789880
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-250604863

If Poli was ranked, it'd be C. D is only for garbage mons that are currently UU (like E in RU/D in Ubers)

 

[ManOfMany]

If Poli was ranked, it'd be C. D is only for garbage mons that are currently UU (like E in RU/D in Ubers)

Right, I accidentally read the C-rank with Milotic and Weezing and all as the D-rank :p

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Honestly I really disagree with poli being ranked because it is so mediocre at everything it does, it isnt that bulky, it isnt really strong, and it is slow. As far as walling gatr is concerned I kinda see poli as one of those mons that proves a mon it counters is overcentralizing because u have to use such an ineffective poke to counter it.

 

[lllg17]

Well this is exactly what I mean- the environment hasnt changed drastically enough for Tornadus to move up imo. (I think you're agreeing with me here?...) It just seems pointless to make a post on why tornadus should move up, and then just read directly from the oras uu analysis. Like if tornadus should move up, then lets talk about how it directly fits into the current metagame based on the rankings of other mons, or how it successfully deals with with high tier threats. Perhaps if we talked about Mega Swampert being on the rise, and tornadus rising with it as a secondary rain setter that deals with grass types (just some random example i pulled out my butt) then that makes sense. Personally I dont think Tornadus is unexplored enough (has an oras uu analysis) to validate it raising due to it being previously undiscovered, something which i do think is valid for moltres' rising thanks to its RU status and lack of uu analysis.

Im not disagreeing with anything you said for the record, i just think people could make more effort with their nominations (no shade plz)

I'm saying your argument is invalid, not that it's wrong. And btw I didn't know Tornadus had a UU analysis. #youlearnsomethingneweveryday
Also, the smogon analysises (anals?) are a great starting point but they don't tell you much about how good the Pokémon is, just how to use it. That's what the viability thread is for. The lack of a UU analysis for Moltres isn't that weird. It's pretty obvious what it would run imo (dual stab, recovery, move of choice).

 

[Pipotchi]

Last post as to not derail the thread, but I posted what I posted to try and encourage some sort of additional meta-related comments to back up what basically seems like a pointless post regarding tornadus as a single pokemon.. we know what tornadus does, but why does that mean it should rise? its not different imo than just posting "tornadus for A-". But I wanted to ask a question about it to try and pull out some additional meta-related comments about it and maybe find out something that I had missed. You even said in your own post that something regarding the meta has to change for a mon to rise, so I dont see how asking what has changed is an invalid thing to say at all. I mean I can look at my own matches without any discussion and say "no i disagree" without any elaboration on my side either but that defeats the whole point of the thread

edit: for the record i dont think tornadus should rise, I feel it offers very little defensive synergy to most teams with its mono-flying typing + rubbish defenses, and its 2 viable STAB attacks are both fairly troublesome to work around, with hurricane being unreliable and acrobatics requiring you to sacrifice your item. Most of the tornadus I see are dedicated leads, and while they are good enough at setting rain i really dont think they are comparable to azelf due to their ability to get ohkod and azelf's ability to threaten a lot of leads and also be a much better sweeper with other sets imo, so while azelf is in A i think tornadus seems okay being a whole rank lower. plus A is a rank for mons who "require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits" which doesnt fit tornadus imo for the shortcomings that have always troubled him with his standard sets

 

[lllg17]

Last post for me too, or at least until someone asks to rise ambipom again or make heracross S class. Lemme get this straight. I agree with you in almost every way. I am just trying to say that the way that you're were arguing was wrong. I feel like the Smogon staff needs to outline better the guidelines for why or why not a mon should or should not move up in the viability rankings. A lot of the things I see here are, "____ mon is good and it's my favorite poké so move it up to B-!" I feel like we need to have specific points we need to hit. An example would be something like this:

Impeti to Move a Pokémon:

1. There has been a change in the metagame that favors/hurts this mon.

2. This mon is being explored more due to random chance

3. Something about this Pokémon has changed.

4. This is a new ranking and must be edited by the community. (Refer to the arguments section)

Arguments to Move a Pokémon
(order of importance)
1. This mon fits the guidelines of the rank it I think it should be in (excluding sub-ranks) more than the one it is in now.
a. The should be completely objective

2. This mon is better/worse than every mom that is in its rank/sub-rank. Therefore it should move.

3. This mon is outclassed by other mons in higher tiers. Therefore it should move down/However, it still has this arguable niche (neesh).

Invalid Arguments

1. This mon is moving in usage, therefore it should move in viability as well.

2. I have seen this mon do well/badly. Here are a few choice replays.

3. Although it doesn't fit the guidelines of the rank, I feel as though it is better/worse than every other mon in its rank and therefore should be moved.


There. All done. Wouldn't this be far more effective if this were posted on the front page of the viability rankings? If there is something like this there already, I'm sorry.

A change in viability does not necessarily mean a change in the specific sets of a Pokémon or a change to the metagame.

I actually said the opposite, though in this case, it is true.

 

[Cheryl.]

Time to make some thoughts on stuff:

Honchkrow from B to B+: Agree, Honchkrow is an underrated and powerful threat, and can turn into a snowball of terror with Moxie late game and has Sucker Punch to somewhat mititgate it's bad speed. Some problems are that it relies on Sucker Punch to kill faster threats too much sometimes and it's frail, but it's a threat and should rise.

Sharpedo from B to B+: I haven't tried it out much, but I think I might be agreeing with this. It's pretty powerful and can crush teams late game with Speed Boost, it's just frail and receives comeptition from it's Mega.

Heracross from A to A+: On the fence. It's a powerful wallbreaker with Choice Band, Swords Dance Toxic Orb, or even Choice Scarf Moxie, but it's slow without a Scarf and weak to some common types. Wouldn't mind the A+ rise tho.

Vivillon from unranked to C/B-: I know this wasn't discussed much, but Vivillon deserves a rank. It has Compoundeyes, increasing the accuracy of it's powerful Hurricane and Sleep Powder, easing Quiver Dance setup. Sure, it doesn't have the best bulk, it's 4x weak to SR, and it can get walled by stuff, but Vivillon is a pretty cool thing and deserves a ranking.

Galvantula from B- to B/B+: Haven't used Galv much yet, but the offensive Sticky Web set sounds like a lot of fun.

Pangoro from B to B+: I think this thing deserves some discussion. With Swords Dance, this thing becomes one of the best stallbreakers in the tier (The best imo, or maybe behind SD Haxorus) It also has the Choice Band wallbreaker set that does work, too. I think Pangoro is pretty cool right now and deserves a rise.

Infernape from A- to A: This is another nomination of mine, Infernape is awesome right now. It's got a vareity of sets, ranging from AoA to Nasty Plot to Choice Scarf, to Swords Dance (My favorite set) making it unpredictable. It's got good speed as well. While it's frail and can't outspeed some threats, Infernape is really good right now and deserves a rise.http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-252050257 (In this battle, Swords Dance Infernape does work.)

Tangrowth from B- to B+: It's really cool right now, as an bulky offensive Grass type that lives physical hits for days. Definetely support the rise.
EDIT:

Doublade from A- to A: I've been using Doublade a lot lately, and it's awesome. It has great bulk and is awesome for checking fighting types and Mega Beedrill. Priority is awesome to mitigate it's bad speed. Problems are it's bad special bulk and no recovery, but Doublade deserves a rise imo. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-252053454 (In this battle, Doublade does a lot of work to the opposing team.) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-252726144 ( in this battle, Doublade destroys the oponent.)
EDIT 2: I'm also still behind Tornadus to A-, but then pipotchi and that other guy will be like, bleh bleh bleh. I still like Tornadus, it's a great to partner to mega Swampert and can hurt defoggers with Defiant.

 

[Cheryl.]

I love the new photo art for the VR.

 

[Omfuga]

Ok making some changes.

Tangrowth (B- to B+)
Mega Beedrill (A to A+)
Galvantula (B- to B) [This one comes from personal experience... i've been preaching about offensive galv for quite a while. And it seems that others in the thread agree]

Currently I don't see much wrong with the rankings. But there are some things I think might at least be worth discussing

Tentacruel (A- to B+)
Forretress (A to A-)
Froslass (B+ to B) [ I can't remember if I already nommed this, but I feel like I might have]
Rhyperior (B+ to B) [is rhyp still good? I haven't used it in a while and its presence in the meta seems lesser]
Fletchinder (B- to ???)
Jolteon (C to Unranked) [What does Jolteon do that Heliolisk, Galvantula, or Rotom-c don't do better?]
Goodra (B- to C)

Remember that none of these suggestions are set in stone. The decision of whether or not these pokemon should move in position is based on what you post, so if you support something, post about it! Remember also that any of the changes I just made, or previous changes, can be reverted with enough good arguments.

 

[r0ady]

Jolteons niche is out speeding azelf who's a massive threat to offense

 

[Omfuga]

I don't think that "niche" qualifies enough to give it a spot on the rankings. why post 1 sentence just to add absolutely nothing to the conversation? At least support yourself or why the speed tier is important; don't just say "it outspeeds azelf" and expect it to stay. Seriously, to anyone thinking of posting here, please make sure that your post has some foundation on it.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Alrighty, I'll post about some of those:

I could see Froslass and Rhyperior maybe drop because I haven't seen them in ages, but I'll have to test them more.

Fletchinder seems like it's in a weird position. It needs a lot of support to be able to sweep at all considering Scald is everywhere so there is rarely an opportunity for Fletchinder to set up. But it has the niche of revenge killing Heracross, Mienshao, and more while its Acrobatics, which has priority, hits hard. Idk I guess it could be C or something like that since it needs so much support but whatever lol.

I disagree with Goodra dropping. B- is perfect for it. Its CB set is definitely decent right now, as it has a lot of power behind CB Outrage while it can hit hard with coverage such as Power Whip and Iron Tail, allowing it to smash through Bulky Waters and Florges, both of which are quite ubiquitous right now. In addition, because of its typing and stupid bulk, it checks a lot of shit in this tier, ranging from Chandelure, mega Blastoise, Heliolisk, Galvantula, Rotom-C, and more. And Sap Sipper is also great as it allows Goodra to switch into Shaymin's Seed Flare for free while having an extra strong Outrage. When I look at the B- Rank, I see Pokemon of equal viability to Goodra. Mega Houndoom, Kingdra, Zoroark, Virizion, etc. They're just as viable, having decent niches but not being too spectacular, just like Goodra. B- is low enough for it.

I agree with dropping Jolteon, it lost its niche when Mega Pidgeot left, it doesn't have Mega Bird to revenge kill anymore so otherwise I'd just use Rotom-C or Heliolisk. Its Speed tier is not that good because Helio and Rotom-C can outspeed a lot already, and it's only tying with...Crobat. It's not bad but it's too outclassed.

Just a few thoughts, I gotta go so I might elaborate more on these later...

 

[teal6]

I don't think that "niche" qualifies enough to give it a spot on the rankings. why post 1 sentence just to add absolutely nothing to the conversation? At least support yourself or why the speed tier is important; don't just say "it outspeeds azelf" and expect it to stay. Seriously, to anyone thinking of posting here, please make sure that your post has some foundation on it.

Jolteon's speed tier, decent special attack, and presence as an electric type that isn't a mega (though the Rotoms exist) warrant a placing in the viability rankings. An important benchmark that Jolteon hits is outspeeding and OHKOing +1 Adamant Feraligatr, which is notoriously a mon in the tier that is difficult to defeat should you not stop it before it starts setting up (of note, more mons are running grass coverage moves). With VoltTurn teams in vogue at the moment, due to the high viability of Mega Beedrill, the two Rotoms and Whimsicott, Jolteon can offer an addition way to continue to grab momentum on the switch.

Downsides include common weakness, the fact that it is grounded and lackluster SpA. Additionally, with Mega Pidgeot gone, it no longer offensively checks "the best mon in the tier", leading to a natural loss of viability.

Overall, it's not a shame if its not ranked, but a C rank isn't necessarily bad either.

 

[Christo]

Nothing said about Shedinja I see. I wonder why? #battlegirls

Edit: But for real, it got brought up by me and no one had made a counter arguement to not add it to the VR. A statement with reasoning would be great.

Edit 2: I am happy to see Beedrill and Tangrowth move up. But I would like to bring back up the topic of dropping mienshao to A rank. Refer to dodmen's for reasoning