OU Bulky Offense

[bluewooper]

OU Bulky Offense

Quick note to raters, Red sections are places where I am having moderate difficulty with. If you would, focus on these areas first.

Team Goal:​

I want to set up Stealth Rock early in the game. Given the choice Between a KO against the lead and the Stealth Rock, I will go with the rock, as it ensures many OHKO and 2HKO's for my team.​

I want to weaken my opponent's team with my Priority users and my Choiced user to set up a safe sweep for my Life Orbed users, specifically Salamence.

Finally, I want to eliminate Skarmory, Bronzong, Weavile, and Mamoswine quickly to open up a clean sweep with Salamence.


The Lead / Revenge Killer

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body

EV's: 198HP/252ATK/60SPEED​

Nature: Adamant​

Meteor Mash
​

Bullet Punch​

Stealth Rock​

Earthquake
When I first made this team, I had supported a Lumgross. However, I had an urgent need for multiple time status absorber, so I scrapped Lum Berry in place of Leftovers, and created a Resttalk Rotom-h. Metagross also gives my team priority Bullet Punch, which will allow him to help eliminate threatening Late Game Sweepers, such as Salamence. I scrapped Explosion, because Latias's Trick already screwed over most Special walls, and because I found it difficult to get off a good Explosion. Metagross was chose as my lead because he had a way with dealing with Weavile and Mamoswine, which tend to kill Salamence. To emphasize my point about how useful this lead is, I have sized it up against the Top 10 Leads of December:

• Azelf: First turn switch to Heatran, as he cannot be harmed.
• Metagross: I have found that all other Metagross set up rocks first, therefore, I Earthquake, send them fleeing, while I set up rocks.
• Swampert: First turn I can set up rocks, and then I switch to Latias, Trick on the Ice Beam, and then go to Heatran.
• Aerodactyl: Metagross can spam Bullet Punch to nab Aerodactyl in the prime.
• Jirachi: I tend to set up rocks on the first turn, because Jirachi cannot severely damage Metagross. I welcome a Scarf, as that nearly guarantees an explsosion.
  
• Infernape: Immediately switch to Latias.
• Roserade: Switch to Rotom-h to take the Sleep.
  
• Heatran: I go to Latias and immediately Surf.
• Tyranitar: Against Max HP Tyranitar with minimal Def EVs, Meteor Mash will 2HKO even Babiri versions.
  
• Gliscor: Two Meteor Mashes fail to 2HKO, so I Switch to Latias, and Gliscor will most definitely switch out.

The Specially-Based Late Game Sweeper / Revenge Killer

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 4HP/252SP.ATK/252SPEED
Nature: Timid
Trick
Surf
Thunderbolt
Draco Meteor

When I began to build my team, I wanted to utilize a powerful sweeper with the Water/Dragon moves for excellent type coverage. The first thought that comes to mind is Kingdra, but I was not impressed by his speed outside of rain. Also, Heatran's prowess was lowered noticeably in the rain. Latias was my second option, utilizing Draco Meteorand Surf to hit neutral against all pokemon except Shedinja and Empoleon, where Stealth Rock are the bane of Shedinja, and Thunderbolt solves the Empoleon problem. I wanted to run a Timid set, with Leftovers, but the 2HKO against Crocune was too valuable to pass by. I find it incredible the amount of times I am able to Trick Scarf onto Blissey/Bronzong/other specially-based walls that come into Latias. Latias is able to contribute to Salamence's sweep, because she is able to counter two of the largest physical walls in the game, Gliscor and Hippowdon, threatening both with Surf.

Status Absorber / Rest Talker / Spin Blocker

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Rotom-h @ Leftovers​

Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252HP/124DEF/132SP.DEF
Nature: Bold
Shadow Ball
Discharge
Rest
Sleep Talk

When I first built this team, I had a LO MYSTICGar in this place. He was working effectively as my spin blocker, but I wanted a bulkier option, as I have had bad experiences with stall in the past, and, in particular, I had trouble dealing with status. I also had some difficulty in the past with certain LO CM Raikou, which hurt me because I had only one Electric resist, and Electivire was hurting me, as Latias was the only Pokemon who could initiate Motor Drive, and is the only Pokemon faster than it. Electivire never carries a Dark or Ghost type move.

Revenge Killer

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability:Technician
EV's: 152HP/252ATK/104SP.DEF
Nature: Adamant
Pursuit
U-Turn
Bullet Punch
Superpower

I doubt this set needs much explanation, as the most used pokemon on in the standard metagame, Scizor is the pokemon we have all grown to love and to hate. I used to have a bulky SD Scizor in this spot, but I never had any success with it at all, and eventually fell back to CB Scizor. This set has really made my team. Scizor helps with Salamence's sweep, because he is able to kill off any Scarf Latias or bulky Rotom which may be able to silence Salamence's sweep. Scizor also serves my team as an excellent revenge killer, working together with Metagross to halt enemy Salamence sweeps. The Specially bulky EV set originated from "Ubers Scizor", because I wanted to be able to take Special hits from both Latias and Rotom, the two pokemon I want to eliminate so that Salamence will be able to sweep easier.


Specially Based Sweeper

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: 252HP/4DEF/32SP.ATK/220SPEED
Nature: Modest
Substitute
Toxic
Fire Blast
Earth Power

I have played with and against many Heatran, and most of them proved to be, in the end, Scarfed. In fact, 41.5% (We love you, DougJustDoug) of all Heatran held a Choice Scarf during the battles of December, 2009. I eventually began to see this as a source of bluffing, in a sense. How easy would it be to "force" an opposing Heatran out, only to get up a Substitute? However, as easy as I make this sound, I have been having a bit of trouble with this current set. I feel that this sort of Heatran should be more bulky than the "standard sets". With Leftovers recovery, I feel that Heatran should have Tanking potential. Fire Blast has won over Lava Plume, because when paired with a Modest nature, Heatran can KO Metagross.

Physically Based Late Game Sweeper

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Ev's: 4HP/252ATK/252SPEED
Nature: Jolly
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Roost


Ah, yes. The classic Late Game Sweeper we have all grown to love (and hate). The purpose of Salamence, I assume, unlikely needs explaining. However, I will go into detail about how Salamence works with my team. The four largest threats Salamence has are, in my humble opinion, Weavile, Mamoswine, Skarmory, and Levitating Bronzong. The former two are well handled by Scizor, and, to a lesser degree, Metagross. Skarmory and Bronzong are countered by my Special threats, mainly Heatran and Gengar. Other threats to a possible Salamence sweep are already covered, such as Hippowdon and Gliscor (Latias), Scizor (Heatran), and Scarftias (Scizor).


Possible Changes Considered:

• A LO Rotom-A in place of Gengar for added bulk. *Done*
  

• Placing Meteor Mash somewhere on Metagross, perhaps over Explosion. *Done*

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[bluewooper]

Offensive Threat Lists

Azelf: Covered in lead section.
Breloom: Gengar is resistant to most attacks. Metagross can absorb sleep and Meteor Mash.
Celebi: Heatran can sub up, as Celebi cannot do much to him.
Dugtrio: If Heatran is caught without a sub, he is as good as dead.
Electivire: I honestly do not care about motor drive, as Latias will be able to switch back in again and Draco Meteor.
Empoleon: Sadly, Latias outspeeds Agility Empoleon, and cripples with Trick.
Flygon: Scizor's Bullet Punch, Latias Draco Meteor
Gengar: Scizor and Metagross threaten with Bullet Punch
Gliscor: Latias will cause all Gliscor to flee, as will Gengar
Gyarados: Latias outspeeds all versions; KO with T-bolt.
Heatran: Latias outspeeds and Surfs. If worst comes to worst, I can “Heatran Bluff”.
Heracross: Gengar resists most attacks, and Latias outspeeds with Draco Meteor
Infernape: All apes are given to Latias.
Jirachi: Heatran is a perfect counter to Jirachi.
Kingdra: Toxic Stall will be effective, and Latias outspeeds without rain.
Latias: Scizor
Lucario: Gengar outspeeds; HP Fire
Machamp: Not much fun. Hopefully, I can damage him on the switchin, or Scizor has danced, or Heatran is behind a sub.
Magnezone: None of my steels are Choiced, so there shouldn't be much problem.
Mamoswine: Metagross + Scizor, and even HP fire from Gengar.
Metagross: Latias's Trick will shut down most Agiligross.
Ninjask: I intend to use Trick on Latias, before Baton Pass to end most chains.
Porygon-Z: Gengar will Focus Blast, Brick Break from Scizor.
Rhyperior: Surf and Focus Blast attack the weaker SP.DEF.
Roserade: <3 Lumgross.
Rotom-A: ToxicStall is the best way to go. Gengar can finish off with Shadow Ball.
Salamence: With Stealth Rock, Metagross's and Scizor's Bullet Punches will KO.
Scizor: Heatran will gladly take all hits, save Superpower.
Snorlax: Setup for Scizor, ToxicStall, even Focus Blast from Gengar.
Starmie: Latias is threatening with T-bolt.
Suicune: Trick from Latias will screw over Crocune.
Togekiss: Everyone outspeeds, or has priority (except Heatran), so Flinch hax is negated.
Tyranitar: Focus Blast Gengar, or even Brick Break from Scizor
Weavile: Scizor + Metagross
Yanmega: Ick. Meteor Mash + Scizor's Bullet Punch will take the most bulky down.
Zapdos: Repeated switchins to Stealth rock + Toxicstall.

Defensive Threat Lists

Blissey: Trick from Latias. Scizor setup bait.
Bronzong: Trick From latias. Heatran substitute.
Cradily: Scizor setup bait / Trick
Crobat: Scizor can setup with ease / T-bolt via Latias
Donphan: Latias can cause major pain with Surf.
Drapion: Generally good setup for Scizor, as I support 0 pokemon susceptible to T-Spikes.
Dusknoir: Heatran Toxic Stall
Forretress: MYSTICGar can surprise the other Steel/Bug too . . .
Hairyama: Uncommon, but I would imagine Trick / Toxic stall would be effective.
Hippowdon: Covered in full by Latias, with cleanup by Heatran.
Ludicolo: Generally, Toxic Stall / Trick will work.
Mesprit: Gengar provides an immediate threat.
Milotic: Trick really slows Milotic down / Thunderbolt
Miltank: Focus Blast from Gengar / Toxic Stall
Porygon-2: Heatran will resort to Toxic Stall, and Salamence can flee to Heatran
Regirock: Surf attacks the weaker SP.DEF / Toxic Stall.
Registeel: Gengar is immune to explosion + Earthquake, but is susceptible to Thunderwave.
Shaymin: Scizor can easily setup all over Shaymin.
Shuckle: Trick is begging to be used / Bullet Punches / Meteor Mash.
Skarmory: Latias / Heatran
Slaking: Another fun use of MYSTICGar (Protect).
Slowbro: Gengar hits the weaker SP.DEF with Shadow Ball / Toxic Stall
Spiritomb: Toxic Stall is the best way to go, if Trick is taken.
Swampert: Trick will cause pain to leadpert, cursepert, and resttalk pert / Toxic stall for non-Rest versions.
Tentacruel: Earthquake from Metagross is highly effective.
Umbreon: Brick Break from Scizor / Trick / Toxic Stall
Vaporeon: Trick will screw over all Vaporeon / Toxic Stall.
Walrein: Not fun, unless one has a plethora of Priority, which I luckily have.
Weezing: Heatran is the perfect counter to Weezing, with resistances to WOW, Explosion, and Sludge Bomb.

 

[eastamazonantidote]

I'm only going to help with Heatran and Salamence for the time being.

You say you've been having trouble with Heatran. Lava Plume is a fantastic option because of the 30% burn rate, though Fire Blast has a practical burn rate of 25%. However, with Toxic, you don't have to worry about the status so much as the accuracy, so I say the choice should come down to Flamethrower or Lava Plume. I really don't like low accuracy moves on tank-like pokemon, as you want the consistent damage over the potential power. For an EV spread, I found this in the analysis: 244 HP / 32 SpAtk / 12 SpDef / 220 Spd with a Timid nature. That hits a Leftovers number, lets your Substitute survive some Rotom-A Discharges, and hits 245 speed to take out those base 100s sitting at 244. I also found this: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 240 SpD with a Modest nature. Whatever floats your boat.

As for Salamence, you say you want something bulkier. Well, you can sit at 220 speed EVs to take out many Choice Scarf Jirachi and any Modest Choice Scarf Latias. 176 attack EVs give you 525 attack after a DD, and the remaining 112 EVs can go in HP, giving you an excellent Life Orb and Stealth Rock number: 359. I just made those up on the spot, but it could give you the bulk you're looking for. Of course, you can always take away some attack EVs and up your defenses some. Another pretty good option is 192 HP and 96 Attack, giving you 379 HP and 495 Attack after a DD. I recommend keeping at least the 220 the speed EVs unless you are confident about eliminating Scarf Latias.

I tried not to change your team too much, so I just suggested mild changes. Heatran will always be a little iffy but you should stick with him. Salamence can do nothing most of the match and still be a threat. Play around with those EVs until you find something you like. You also may want to change around some natures. If you make Salamence Careful by some chance, remember that Dragonite does that better.

 

[Vaz]

I am going to have to say Heatran works best in a substitute set with a Timid nature to outspeed a lot of threats, and works better with Fire Blast. 85 Accuracy is not all too shabby, and provides a lot more 2HKOs than Flamethrower/Lava Plume would ever do. Gengar and protect are not the best of friends, may I suggest you opt for Thunderbolt instead. A modest nature is prefered on a Latias to hit harder with 350 SpA.

 

[bluewooper]

@eastamazonantidote: Thank you for your rate! I like the new EV spread of 224HP / 32SP.ATK / 12 SP.DEF / 220SPEED. I think that I could use more overall bulk, while keeping enough speed to get a substitute up in certain situations. As for Salamence, I am considering replacing it for Dragonite, for the added bulk, without a massive loss of power.

@PalaceMavenSpenser: Yeah, I will probably change Modest to Timid, which will allow me to outspeed certain threats, like Adamant Gyarados, all non-scarfed Rotom, and even the occasional Adamant Heracross. About Gengar, you failed to read the description of Gengar, or you are not too familiar about the MYSTICGar set. It is supposed to never allow Gengar to get beaten 1 on 1 by CB Scizor. Latias is a pokemon on my team who is like a "safety blanket", and serves to outspeed many threats that can go out of hand, Like DD Salamence, Gyarados, even DD Tyranitar. Heatran will probably keep Lava Plume, because it is more accurate than a risky (at times) Fire Blast. Also, I have filled more of a utility role with the 30% burn rate.

 

[Setsuna]

Hi.

From my point of view, the team this time is at a higher level (comparing to the previous one). That means that important threats have been checked as well as some general stuff. But like always, almost every team can be improved in one way or another.

The first thing I will recommend is to give Metagross MM in order to get rid of Azelf lead that otherwise can explode on your Heatran and do reasonable damage to it, which is definitely not cool. MM over Explosion.

On Heatran, I would go with Fire Blast instead of Lava Plume fore more power. Bulky waters like Vaporeon and Suicune will be better poisoned than burnt; FB can burn too, but it has a 20% less than Lava Plume.
The decision for using Modest or Timid comes when you notice that Adamant Mamoswine, +Speed Metagross and Breloom, and neutral natured Heracross and Gyarados need to be outpaced. But in your case, that this set isn't able to OHKO most of them, and Mamoswine can be controlled somehow by Metagross and Scizor, Modest could be the best bet. The power added in comparison to Timid is really notable, but if you don't want to feel worried about encountering a +Speed Breloom/Metagross in your way and get surprisingly OHKOed, run Timid with no doubt.

On Scizor, Life Orb is probably a superior option since you need to score as much damage as you can once you lunch a Swords Dance. Notice that SR are Scizor's only support (besides its teammates), and you aren't using entry hazards to boost its power either. So in my opinion LO is more competitive in this case.

Nothing more to say really, Salamence is ok, Skarmory and Forretress are very well covered with Gengar and Heatran, and Latias does decent damage to both.

Good team overall, gl.

 

[bluewooper]

@ Setsuna: You never cease to amaze me. I have never really used Explosion successfully enough to make it worth it, so I should replace it with Meteor Mash. I have noticed the power drop from Timid, and I have hated it. Modest will be coming in. With Scizor, I have noticed that more power would be desirable, but I have also noticed that without wish passing, Scizor will get worn down very quickly, even with Roost. I will probably keep Leftovers.

Please, could someone address my Salamence? I was considering switching it to a Dragonite, for added Bulk. Is this a good idea?

 

[frogbandit]

Hi bluewooper,

I'll answer your Salamence question first. As a late game sweeper, I think that Dragonite works much better because of its physical bulkiness and ability to roost off HP without worry. Although Salamence does sport a special-attacking advantage with Fire Blast, with the Physical DD set, Fire Blast isn't needed, making Dragonite the superior option. He has much higher overall defenses and HP, making some ice attacks not even OHKO it, something Dragonite would wish to have. Even late game, Dragonite can easily roost off residual damage and sweep cleanly with all threats taken care of. Heres the set:

Dragonite @ Leftovers
224 HP / 84 Atk / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw / Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Roost

As you can see, its almost exactly the same set as Salamence; this is why Dragonite has the advantage. With its bulkiness, it doesn't need to invest as many EVs into defense, and can instead pool them to increase its attack and speed. Also note that even though Draggy has less speed than Salamence, their attacks are virtually the same, meaning that Dragonite will be more powerful when using the set compared to Salamence.

Looking over your threat list, I see nothing that gives the team any further trouble. Good job with the team, and good luck!

 

[Enygma]

Hiya! Got your message.

Just an opinion of mine regarding your decision with Mence and Dragonite:

Dragonite should never be used in the same way a Salamence would. DD Mence is more superior to DD Nite, despite it having access to Extremespeed. Mence is arguably the most powerful Pokemon in OU, whereas Dragonite is at the midbottom of the tier, and for good reasons.

Dragonite is mostly used for midgame sweeping and make a great partner for Mence in that it has the same counters and can help you scout for Mence counters before you bring it out. Mence is better suited for endgame, where there are less counters alive to stop it. On top of that, Mence has such an awesome ability that many others would kill to have.

Bottom line: Dragonite is an inferior Mence. Don't try to have Dragonite do a role that Mence is better off doing.

But that's just my nitpick. Feel free to ignore it if you wish.