OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]

eriados

eriados

Razza said:
Also balloon heatran is not a sun "check"
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Razza said:
any decent sun team will be built with heatran as the number one threat
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You seem to be contradicting yourself here. If heatran is the number one threat to sun teams, isn't it by definition a check?

There also seems to be some confusion about what heavy offense is. Here is some on-site info I found that is relevant:

HO
HO stands for hyper offense or sometimes for heavy offense; these terms are synonymous. It's typically used to describe a very offensively oriented team, with only minimal type synergy for defense. Teams usually consist of Pokemon with high Speed and Attack and/or Special Attacks stats and only moderate defenses. Oftentimes, these teams are supplemented with dual screens leads that allow the sweepers to set up multiple times before rampaging through the opposition.
Gyarados and Infernape are common Pokemon seen on HO teams due to their wide movepools, immense threat posed once setup, and high Speed.
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from http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_pokemon_dictionary#terms

Hyper offense is a type of offense that focuses almost exclusively on attacking. Hyper offense teams usually utilize a Pokemon that can set up Reflect and Light Screen in conjunction with several setup sweepers with similar counters. These sweepers set up under the protection of Dual Screens and break down their counters through repeated powerful attacks, sacrificing themselves until their counters are defeated and one of them can sweep. Hyper offense teams usually only attack from one side of the attacking spectrum in order to immediately render Pokemon intended to wall attacks on the other side of the spectrum dead weight. For example, a team packed full of physical sweepers immediately renders Blissey useless. Hyper offense teams rarely switch Pokemon, instead relying on the inherent power of their members to weaken counters to the point where they cannot recover or retain enough HP to wall the rest of the team.

Some hyper offense teams take the form of Baton Pass teams, which use Baton Pass to accumulate boosts and pass them to sweepers as becomes feasible. Most Baton Pass teams attempt to Baton Pass the move Shell Smash, which is arguably the best boosting move in the game, as it grants a +2 boost in each of the following stats: Attack, Special Attack, and Speed. With access to Pokemon like Deoxys-D, which can set up Dual Screens and entry hazards effectively due to its immense bulk and reasonable Speed, and Espeon, which lacks the ability to set up entry hazards but can use both Reflect and Light Screen while negating any attempts at phazing away accumulated boosts or Taunting the users of Baton Pass, as well as a plethora of potential recipients, Baton Pass teams can be very dangerous if used correctly.
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from http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3452550

Also, this is handy to read:
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?6523-Heavy-Offense
 

bubbly

Hmmm, might nominate MoxieMence for this round then.


Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Moxie, Adamant (/Jolly) nature
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

Right, so I realised that MoxieMence can revenge kill almost all of the predominantly fast special attackers which are currently threats, setting itself up for a sweep. Of course it synergises incredibly well with what we have already - Rapid Spin support, Haxorus + Zoroark to break Steels, Gliscor, Slowbro etc down for it. Anyone who's used this knows its one of the absolute best cleaners in the metagame because it can sweep without need for setup, often to revenge the opponents offensive threats, and is basically unstoppable without a healthy steel type.

There are a couple of problems with using this set though. It still leaves the team without a solid switch into the aforementioned special threats. It also makes the team somewhat Scizor / Jirachi weak again, although Gyarados and Donphan are both solid checks for them. If we can fix those issues sufficiently with the final member though, then I think Mence would be a perfect team member.
 

GracefulChaos

I nominate this guy... FTW




Suicide Lead
Lucario@Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-ExtremeSpeed
-Crunch

To kill all the mons that fuck up the meta game ;)
 
ginganinja

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
O.k firstly id like to apologise for the length of time it took to get this up. Like I said, uni work was a bitch and iv just been busy so sorry!!!

However, I would like to say a big thank you to everyone who kept this active while I was inactive, especially Katakiri for that massive data log. Must have taken a bit of time but well done on that work.

Anyway, Voting Ballot is up, same rules as last time. I may have missed a nomination or so, (its always possible) just let me know and ill add it in. Their are 2 "Scarf Jirachi" sets, one physical and one special so please state which one you are voting for if you indeed do decide to vote for Scarf Jirachi.


Stage 5 Ballot (Pick One)
 
Shurtugal

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
OMG i really hope defenisve rachi doesn't get nomed. Its just that this is a HEAVY OFFENSIVE TEAM :O

Voting for Banded Scizor
 
Hwang

Hwang

Porygon2

I feel the team needed something a little bulky. Porygon2 can switch into plenty of threats. Also, it has nice coverage+good offensive capabilities to take down some stuff.
 

DrunkDemon

You actually did miss a few things ginga. jimera0 also nominated Scizor + Celebi and Scizor + Azelf. And the poster above you nominated a Suicide Lead Lucario.

EDIT: Okay, I'll just change my vote to Scizor (Choice Band) if you want to do it like that.
 
ginganinja

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
You actually did miss a few things ginga. jimera0 also nominated Scizor + Celebi and Scizor + Azelf. And the poster above you nominated a Suicide Lead Lucario.
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I left out the dual nomination since I felt that at this late stage, I would rather see what this pokemon wins, and then re evaluate, and then vote on the final pokemon, rather than just skipping straight till the end. Since he stated (iirc?) that Azelf and Celebi needed to be partnered with Scizor, I decided just to have a CB Scizor nomination, and then Azelf and Celebi can be nominated next round. If their is an outcry about this I will change but I don't really like the idea of skipping the final stage (which is one of the most important) in our team right now.

I'll add in the Lucario

EDIT

Jirachi (Physically Based Scarf)

I thought long and hard on this, tossing up between Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Mence however Jirachi can switch into attacks a bit easier which is nice. I went physical because many of the threats we are weak too, are weak to physical moves, and it gives us a better shot against Virizion and Latias which commonly use Calm Mind. Scizor is o.k, but I don't like how Starmie still looks a bitch, Virizion can go for a KO on Scizor with a +1 Focus Blast, and a lot of the Latias I run into are either Reflect CM or CM + HP Fire which Scizor does not fix. Jirachi checks almost everything on the list I posted, and while it is in the same boat as Scizor in regards to being Volcarona weak, we still have a final slot to help us fix that up so thats cool.
 
Woodchuck

Woodchuck

actual cannibal
is a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Jirachi (Physically Based Scarf)

same reasoning as ginga, also Jirachi fits well with more Pokemon than Salamence, revenges more things than Scizor, and should give us more options going into the final pick than either. And I'm not going for SpD Rachi because it doesn't suit this kind of team.
 
Katakiri

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
I'm voting for Shuckle
...What? He's not on the list? ...What is this nonsense?


Well in that case I'm voting for Jirachi (Physically Based Scarf).

However I do think that if we end up with a Scarf Pokemon, Donphan should have Stealth Rock be the main option as great as Ice Shard can be. Having to slap on a Stealth Rocker for the very last team slot is very limiting and with a Choice Scarfer, I think the need for Ice Shard would decrease enough for that to at least be considered. But that would really open up that last slot to anything we want.
 

Cooky

Banned deucer.
Salamence (Scarf)

Proposing Fire Blast over Brick Break because seriously who ever actually uses BB, Fire Blast at east gives you some semblance of the classic "mencehasnosafeswitchinsAAAAH"
 

bubbly

Might as well go for my own nom :)

Salamence (Scarf). I think it's possible to cover weaknesses sufficiently with the final member. Jirachi does switch in a lot more easily but it synergises less well offensively with our other members, and can't pull off a clean sweep anywhere near so well.
 
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