OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]

1. Omastar (Shell Smash)
2. Hippowdon (Defensive)
3. Aerodactyle (Offensive Taunt)
4. Scarfty (Dragon Dance)
5. Salamence (Wish)

Explanation: I would love to see a team based around shell smash Omastar. I once decided to make a team to troll the OU ladder based around Omastar once. The entire team was just two pokemon: Dual Screens + Rain Dance Espeon and Swift Swimming Shell Smash Omastar. This thing is an absolute monster under the rain. The team was actually marginally succesful peaking around like 1150ish (pretty rediculous for a two-mon team). This thing has massive untapped potential and can completely tear through weatherless teams with proper support.

Would like to explain the rest of my choices aswell, defensive Hippowdon would be nice to see a CCAT team based around because I think it'd be nice to see how as a community we would support a defensive mon like Hippowodon and also what we would do to make a sandstorm team. Same goes for Aerodactyl,as it adds a nice ground immunity for sand teams and is also very under used for its nice attack and great speed.

The last three are pretty simple, scarf starraptor has always interested me as a hole puncher, and DD scrafty is pretty simply an under used mamba waiting to pop in usage.

Lastly, I was toying around with making a sun team earlier before reading this and tried to use WishMence as a defensive center piece as it has amazing synergy with sun teams due to its great dragon-typing granted resistances, ability to pass wishes (an invaluable trait of sun teams imo, and I have yet to see a sun team utilizing wish support), and the amazing ability in Intimidate. Unfortunately, my sun team did terribly, but sounded great on paper.
 
1.Alakazam (Life Orb) - Metagross66
2.Conkeldurr (Choice Band) - Ranger Blue
3.Cloyster (Shell Smash or Support) - Seth Vilo
4.Kingdra (Rain Dance) - Ningildo
5.Mew (Nasty Plot) - HoiPolloi and Lady Alex
 
Hydreigon (Work Up) - Ithilanor
Jirachi (Choice Specs & Doom Desire) - ginganinja
Metagross (Agility) - Angel Masamune
Zoroark (Illusion) - Katakiri
Cobalion (Bulky Support) - Cesc
 
There was some discussion on the previous page about how SubRoost Staraptor was "terrible" and "couldn't switch in on anything", but whoever said this obviously was not playing correctly with Staraptor. It seems as though they were trying to outright sweep with Sharp Beak Staraptor, which is not at all the intent. The purpose of SubRoost Staraptor is to destroy stall and use specific opportunities to set up a Substitute... Not Sweep. Staraptor without a Scarf is too slow to attempt to sweep. I just wanted to clear this up..
 
There was some discussion on the previous page about how SubRoost Staraptor was "terrible" and "couldn't switch in on anything", but whoever said this obviously was not playing correctly with Staraptor. It seems as though they were trying to outright sweep with Sharp Beak Staraptor, which is not at all the intent. The purpose of SubRoost Staraptor is to destroy stall and use specific opportunities to set up a Substitute... Not Sweep. Staraptor without a Scarf is too slow to attempt to sweep. I just wanted to clear this up..
Click to expand...

OK that was me. I don't know that I was using SubRoost Staraptor "correctly", or if indeed there is even a way to play it correctly, but I certainly realised very quickly that a sweep was extremely rare. I barely tried to sweep with him at all. I also realised that it was a terrible wallbreaker, and a terrible revenge killer. Did you not see my later post, where I said I was using Staraptor in place of a very frail wallbreaker, Medicham? Staraptor was much, much worse, because it was even harder to switch in, and much, much worse at wallbreaking. Clearly, what you have to do is eliminate Staraptor's counters, so that Staraptor can clear another Pokemon's counters, and then you win! It's support that mandates lots of support. Sounds productive. And believe me, I tried to like it, and I tried to use it "correctly". The most effective strategy was simply to ignore Sub and Roost and simply to spam Brave Bird and hope that your opponent didn't notice the weird damage output, thinking Staraptor was choiced. I hope you'd understand that this would not translate at all well to the CCAT team, which would be totally out in the open, and that it would not work against a careful opponent who does damage calcs.


CB Staraptor, on the other hand, was both a decent wallbreaker and occasionally a good revenge killer (due to increased power, and Quick Attack), and a decent momentum-grabber with U-turn if you could keep SR off the field. That is a set I would be willing to use. Very much the same with Choice Scarf; you could very well actually clean up with that set too. So yeah, if you want to use Staraptor, vote for Scarf, because CB is sadly not an option.
 
And the Scarf set also has the advantage of being able to take down Skarmory after SR with Final Gambit if we keep SR off the field, so this is a nice bonus as well.

Or we could also pair ScarfRaptor with WishRachi, allowing our eagle to heal against pokes that Jirachi attracts such as Scizor, Stone Edge-less Donphan, Landorus and Conkeldurr. Of 'course some prediction is needed to not bring Raptor into harmful moves such as Stone Edge from Landorus. Or we can also minimize Rachi's Spe evs and give him a - Spe nature so that we can pass Wishes to Raptor without him getting hit at all.
 
I'll vote!~

1. Zoroark - Hardly seen in OU, and would definitely be fun coming up with strategies exclusive to Zoroark.
2. Jirachi (Doom Desire) - another interesting concept that I have never seen in action in OU.
3. Metagross (Agility) - Gravity Metagross also has Agility, but I decided with the full offensive Agility Metagross, since I want to see Meta sweep ;)
4. Medicham - People need to appreciate its truck offense more!
5. Druddigon - One of the most neglected dragons that actually looks decent. It is bulky and has a relatively powerful priority move in Sucker Punch; I can see it clean teams with Trick Room support :d
 
On Bulk Up Heracross

I got around to testing it, and its fucking good. I hammered quite a few teams with it (stall, Sun offence, Sand) and it was exceptionally hard for teams to get rid of.

I ran a different EV Spread, one that focused more on bulk so it could grab Bulk Ups easier. Its a real shame Heracross doesn't get Drain Punch (WHY gamefreak WHY) but I rather liked using it and it was very, very fun. I ran the EV spread:

EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 80 Def / 120 SDef

Yes, this Heracross is slow as balls and I guess thats the downside to using this spread. Its also rather low on Power but then again, with the extra bulk, you get extra Bulk Up opportunities anyway so meh.

The Given EV spread lets you...

Get the OHKO on Reuniclus after a Bulk Up
Are only 4KOed by CB Scizor after a Bulk Up while you 2KO with Low Kick
Scarf Landorus can only 4KO with SE, with Sand Force active, if you got a Bulk Up.
Modest Hydreigon fails to OHKO Heracross with Fire Blast
LO Modest Celebi fails to 2KO with HP Fire
Scarf Rotom W fails to 2KO with Hydro Pump (maxes out at 48% iirc)
CB Terrakion only does 46.42 - 55.21% after a Bulk Up.
CM Reuniclus also fails to KO Heracross with Psychic

Don't get me wrong, im not saying my EV spread is the best spread out there, but I am saying that Bulk Up Heracross did end up working for me when I tested it. It was never a deadweight.
 
1. Choice Scarf Staraptor

A little snippet here about CS Staraptor. He is a real boss. I've been using him and he's just fantastic in a couple of roles. For one, he can come in the match early and fire off Brave Birds / Double Edges and 2HKO most of the metagame, or scout with U-turn. Secondly, he can wait in the wings until late game and clean up like nobody else with double stab Brave Bird. SubRoost is okay, but he doesn't have the bulk to pull it off. I'd rather be throwing around really strong attacks and revenge killing. My 2 cents.

2. Shell Smash Omastar
3. Choice Band Victini
4. Choice Band Conkeldurr
5. Rain Dance Kingdra
 
Bad Ass said:
1. Choice Scarf Staraptor

A little snippet here about CS Staraptor. He is a real boss. I've been using him and he's just fantastic in a couple of roles. For one, he can come in the match early and fire off Brave Birds / Double Edges and 2HKO most of the metagame, or scout with U-turn. Secondly, he can wait in the wings until late game and clean up like nobody else with double stab Brave Bird. SubRoost is okay, but he doesn't have the bulk to pull it off. I'd rather be throwing around really strong attacks and revenge killing. My 2 cents.

2. Shell Smash Omastar
3. Choice Band Victini
4. Choice Band Conkeldurr
5. Rain Dance Kingdra
Click to expand...
The Scarf Straptor proposed doesn't have Double-Edge, since it has Final Gambit.
 
Reckless Double-Edge certainly sounds viable over Final Gambit (or Close Combat). These sets are not necessarily set in stone, alexwolf.

Heracross has much better overall defenses than Breloom, so I can see Bulk Up Heracross work. Unlike Breloom, it doesn't have neither the arguably more useful Poison Heal ability nor Breloom's nifty resistances to Water, Rock, and Electric. BU Heracross is a lot more threatening offensively, though, and there are much fewer mons who can switch in safely.

Keep on voting, Smogon brothers and sisters.
 
right o

Pocket and I have decided that unless voting picks up again, Deadline for voting will be in 24 hours. If people want an extension then thats cool too, just let us know and it might be extended. If Votes pick up we will let it go on a little longer.
 
jc104 said:
CB Staraptor, on the other hand, was both a decent wallbreaker and occasionally a good revenge killer (due to increased power, and Quick Attack), and a decent momentum-grabber with U-turn if you could keep SR off the field. That is a set I would be willing to use. Very much the same with Choice Scarf; you could very well actually clean up with that set too. So yeah, if you want to use Staraptor, vote for Scarf, because CB is sadly not an option.
Click to expand...

(Sorry for the long quote, but this was a few posts back and I though it deserved further discussion)

Although at first I really wanted to have SubRoost Staraptor as our CCAT 'mon after it did well in a couple of matches, I have come to the conclusion that it really isn't that good. First of all Substitute and Roost together are useless. For both you need a free turn and therefore against a good player you'll never get the two you need to use them both together. Let me give an example. Say you switch Star into a Earthquake locked Scarf Terrakion. As your opponent switches to say Gengar or Tornadus to intercept the Close Combat you use Sub/Roost. If you used Roost you would have regained some health you lost previously (probably to Stealth Rock) and are confronted with a faster Pokemon who can quite easily OHKO you with the appropriate move. If you use Sub you can use a move (either BB lowering your health or CC lowering your defenses) and potentially get a kill as your sub is broken. However, you then find yourself with low health and/or defenses and are so prone to revenge killing it's not even funny. This is why I would like to voice my support for Choice Band Staraptor (I prefer it over Scarf thanks to Quick Attack). It has strong STAB priority in Quick Attack. Devastating primary STABs in Double Edge and Brave Bird (that will KO anything that doesn't resist either thanks to Reckless) and an excellent coverage move in Close Combat. Admittedly it has trouble with Stealth Rock but this can quite easily covered by a rapid spinner or a Wish passer. Scarf is also good, but, apart from U-Turn, it doesn't have much over Scarf Terrakion (both have spammable STABs, high Attack and Speed stats and both are weak to priority).
 
What the guy above said is true from my testing as well and thats why I really hope staraptor doesnt get picked(although he seems to be on the lead). I really think he will become the weakes link of the team/or the whole team has to focus on him so that he can perform.

I do think that you guys will be able to create a good team but I really think that staraptor wont be a really good choice
 
Yeah, I'm noticing that myself, and that's just from seeing a match or two with it attempted.

Now I'm regretting my vote, especially since I had to leave Abomasnow behind on the list.
 
You can edit your votes - just make sure to notify ginganinja and me.

Get your votes in if you haven't :o
 
Votan'.

1. Life Orb Alakazam
2. Dragon Dance Scrafty
3. Choice Band Conkeldurr
4. Dragon Dance Lapras
5. Wish Salamence
 
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