Resource OU Checks Compendium (Read Post #72)

Status
Not open for further replies.

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Drill Run is actually more common than Knock Off but the point is that they can safely switch into the most spammable attacks of Mega Beedrill.
Similar to Landorus: Celebi loses to Sludge Wave which has over 50% usage, Gengar doesn't switch into Psychic and Knock Off and Rotom-W also can't switch into a Focus Blast or Psychic, yet they are all considered safe switch ins. Otherwise there would only be 2 or 3 pokemon in the list of switch ins because all of those SI (except maybe 2 or 3 pokemon) lose to the right coverage move.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
First of all, this is a fantastic resource.

Going back to the whole Starmie and Zard Y thing, could Reflect Type Starmie be considered a check? It becomes Fire/Flying, which resists Fire Blast, Solarbeam, and Focus Blast if Zard has that, and 2HKOs with Thunderbolt. So Starmie can win.

It's rare, but some Mega Beedrill run Drill Run over Knock Off, so things like Terrakion and Toxicroak aren't guaranteed checks. Just sayin.

Mega Altaria does run the special set a lot, but it also has a Return/DD/Roost/Heal Bell set that turns Chansey from a wall to setup fodder.

Terrakion could arguably switch in to Bisharp, depending on what is switching out. If you have a Chansey or Gengar on the field, then a Knock Off is basically guaranteed and Terrakion is a safe switch in. If you have a Fairy, Rock or Ice type out front, Iron Head is coming and Terrakion isn't safe. I'm not sure where that puts it, but Dark type attacks are a lot more common coming from Bisharp in my experience.
The Starmie statement is bothering me. Reflect Type and Thunderbolt are never run on the same set, as RT is used on defensive sets that use a moveset of [scald / spin / recover / reflect type or psyshock] and tbolt is used on offensive sets. Yes Starmie can use Reflect Type to copy Charizard's typing but uninvested scalds wont be doing that much, especially in the sun. This scenario just isnt very productive for the starmie user and doesnt effectively handle Charizard Y.
 
First of all, this is a fantastic resource.

Going back to the whole Starmie and Zard Y thing, could Reflect Type Starmie be considered a check? It becomes Fire/Flying, which resists Fire Blast, Solarbeam, and Focus Blast if Zard has that, and 2HKOs with Thunderbolt. So Starmie can win.

It's rare, but some Mega Beedrill run Drill Run over Knock Off, so things like Terrakion and Toxicroak aren't guaranteed checks. Just sayin.

Mega Altaria does run the special set a lot, but it also has a Return/DD/Roost/Heal Bell set that turns Chansey from a wall to setup fodder.

Terrakion could arguably switch in to Bisharp, depending on what is switching out. If you have a Chansey or Gengar on the field, then a Knock Off is basically guaranteed and Terrakion is a safe switch in. If you have a Fairy, Rock or Ice type out front, Iron Head is coming and Terrakion isn't safe. I'm not sure where that puts it, but Dark type attacks are a lot more common coming from Bisharp in my experience.
I'll probably just leave Starmie off. It's still getting 2HKOed by Fire Blast in Sun, and even if you stall out the Sun turns, it really just turns into a big stalemate anyway.

You're kinda right about Mega Beedrill. Scarf Terrakion can still switch into its STABs and Stone Edge before Beedrill can Drill Run, but other sets lose, so that's a tricky one. I might move it to NSI since requiring a Scarf is a lot less obvious for SI than for NSI, but I don't know. Toxicroak, though, does so much damage with Sucker Punch that it can actually KO a Mega Beedrill that has taken the slightest bit of damage before it Drill Runs, so I'll keep that one SI.

Mega Altaria's kind of a jerk for this list because it's so versatile haha. I'll just remove Chansey since it outright loses to pretty much any type of Dragon Dance Mega Altaria, which is about half of them.

Terrakion can stay in NSI. Bisharp more commonly spams Dark-type moves, but the threat of a STAB Iron Head is enough to keep me from comfortably switching in Terrakion unless I'm desperate.

Thanks!

Drill Run is actually more common than Knock Off but the point is that they can safely switch into the most spammable attacks of Mega Beedrill.
Similar to Landorus: Celebi loses to Sludge Wave which has over 50% usage, Gengar doesn't switch into Psychic and Knock Off and Rotom-W also can't switch into a Focus Blast or Psychic, yet they are all considered safe switch ins. Otherwise there would only be 2 or 3 pokemon in the list of switch ins because all of those SI (except maybe 2 or 3 pokemon) lose to the right coverage move.
Yeah, I might just remove Celebi since it loses to Sludge Wave, which about half of all Landorus are running. Gengar's tricky but will probably stay since it can switch in on Earth Power and slam Landorus with Shadow Ball or OHKO with Icy Wind, although it'll lose if it comes in on Rock Polish sets with either Knock Off or Psychic (most have one or the other), so that's up for debate I suppose.

This is why lists like this are really tricky sometimes lol.
 
Wow, really nice resource! Great work!
Just a small nitpick, but gyarados should be added to zard-y switchins, the defensive varient avoids the 2hko from all its moves, can T-wave it back to cripple zard-y, and rest-talk up to stall out sun turns, but apart from that everything looks really good!
 

p2

Banned deucer.
I'd put Doublade and Bronzong into Mega Metagross + Mega Pinsir (SI), Klefki, Volcarona, Mega Blastoise and Hydreigon into NSI for MMeta
 
Bronzong isn't a mega metagross switch in.
The most it can do is earthquake, which isn't even a guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Bronzong Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 92-110 (30.5 - 36.5%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO
While Mega Metagross 3HKOes with Hammer Arm, so Bronzong can't switch in.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 139-164 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
So I've finally took some time to look over this, btw fantastic job Agent Gibbs.

I'm not a huge fan of Char-Y and Tflame in Landorus switch ins. Rock Slide is becoming seen more and more so really the only one out of these that has a better match-up in a lot of cases is Talonflame due to priority Gale Wings while Zard-Y is getting outpaced the following turn taking the brunt of the next hit. NSI is where I would put these as SpDef Zard-Y and T-Flame do have a solid match-up against non Rock Slide variants.

Mega Gyarados bypasses Toxicroaks Water Absorb with Mold Breaker. I would remove Toxicroak from that part.

Mind explaining to me how Zapdos checks M-Gallade? I guess if you want to go out there and use a weird set to beat it then yes but it sort of just sets up on you assuming common variants.

For now that's all I have I'll look at others and let you know if I catch anything else in the future.
 
I'm not a huge fan of Char-Y and Tflame in Landorus switch ins. Rock Slide is becoming seen more and more so really the only one out of these that has a better match-up in a lot of cases is Talonflame due to priority Gale Wings while Zard-Y is getting outpaced the following turn taking the brunt of the next hit. NSI is where I would put these as SpDef Zard-Y and T-Flame do have a solid match-up against non Rock Slide variants.
Looking at the 1825 OU stats, Rock Slide doesn't show up on the list, although the least used thing that does is still at a whopping 20% usage, so I'm not sure what to make of that. I realize that it's probably more common in tournament play, but that's hard to quantify without hard stats and most people play on the ladder anyway so...whatever. I'll move them to NSI I guess, unless someone just really disagrees.

Mega Gyarados bypasses Toxicroaks Water Absorb with Mold Breaker. I would remove Toxicroak from that part.
Good point. Removed!

Mind explaining to me how Zapdos checks M-Gallade? I guess if you want to go out there and use a weird set to beat it then yes but it sort of just sets up on you assuming common variants.
Lol it doesn't. Removed!

Awesome, thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
So I'm looking through B rank since the A ranks have probably been analyzed to hell already.

I would switch Latias and Latios from Conkeldurr switch-ins to non-switch-ins because Knock Off is standard and pretty spammable.

Weavile checks can have Keldeo as a switch-in, Sylveon too. I don't know if Tyranitar should be listed as a non-switch-in just because I think Low Kick is standard and Choice Scarf Ttar is still outsped by Weavile (correct me on either point if I'm wrong).

Quagsire is a Victini switch-in (man these kinda vary on whether its CB or special).

I wasn't super thorough so there's probably stuff I missed but those are the things that stood out to me. Great thread btw.
 
This kind of list is pretty tricky which is why the checks and counters list like the one Nog made is a better way IMO.

Anyways are Lati@s not considered a switch-in or revenge killer for Manaphy? They should get a mention considering they check the TG + RD set.

Also why is Raikou a Mega Pinsir switch in? Earthquake is the most common move for the last slot iirc. Same goes for a lot more.

Again, this is why I think a checks & counters list like what Nog made for XY is a better idea, but hey its your decision :)
 
I would switch Latias and Latios from Conkeldurr switch-ins to non-switch-ins because Knock Off is standard and pretty spammable.
Well, I designated "switch-ins" based on the ability to switch into STAB moves, but I might add in other spammable non-STABs like Knock Off, Scald, U-turn, and Volt Switch. Of course, that means some other stuff will have too be changed, so I'll take care of that at a later time.

Weavile checks can have Keldeo as a switch-in, Sylveon too. I don't know if Tyranitar should be listed as a non-switch-in just because I think Low Kick is standard and Choice Scarf Ttar is still outsped by Weavile (correct me on either point if I'm wrong). Quagsire is a Victini switch-in (man these kinda vary on whether its CB or special).
I'm good with these. Thanks!

Anyways are Lati@s not considered a switch-in or revenge killer for Manaphy? They should get a mention considering they check the TG + RD set.
Yeah, I'm alright with adding Lati@s to SI for Manaphy.

Also why is Raikou a Mega Pinsir switch in? Earthquake is the most common move for the last slot iirc. Same goes for a lot more.
Close Combat's the more common coverage move by far, actually. Even then, though, I've defined switch-ins primarily as being able to switch into a threat's STABs comfortably and win, which Raikou can do nicely.

Again, this is why I think a checks & counters list like what Nog made for XY is a better idea, but hey its your decision :)
While I'm not big on making this a "checks and counters" list for reasons stated earlier, I do want to expand on the current list, especially on switch-ins. I'll probably separate them by hard counters (basically walls, take pitiful damage from a threat and/or have recovery), hard switch-ins (can switch into all of a Pokemon's common moves, but not consistently), soft switch-ins (can switch into a Pokemon's STAB/spammable non-STAB moves, but die to common coverage moves, basically the low standard of the current "switch-ins" category), and revenge killers (current non-switch-ins, they win but can't switch in), or something along those lines. But yeah, don't worry, I am planning on making this more comprehensive. It'll just be a while before I get a lot more free time to do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vxy
Actually, talking of rank changes, there was a big one a couple of days ago which you'll have to implement.

Azelf: B- to B
Diggersby: A- to B+
Heracross (Mega): A- to B+
Dragalge: B- to B
Serperior: B- to B
Amoonguss: B+ to B
Volcarona: B+ to A
Feraligatr: Unranked to B-
Torn-T: A- to A
Kyurem-B: B+ to A-
Scizor (Mega): A to A+
Altaria (Mega): A+ to S
Slowbro (Mega): A+ to A
M-Gallade: A to A-
Houndoom (Mega): B to B-
Gyarados (Mega): A+ to A
Pinsir (Mega): A to A-
Beedrill (Mega): B+ to B
Hawlucha: B+ to B
Klefki: B+ to A-
Sceptile (Mega): B+ to B
Suicune: B to B+
Togekiss: B to B+
Gyarados (Mega): A+ to A
Pinsir (Mega): A to A-
Beedrill (Mega): B+ to B
Hawlucha: B+ to B
Klefki: B+ to A-
Sceptile (Mega): B+ to B
Suicune: B to B+
Togekiss: B to B+


The most significant of these is that you'll have to add a Gatr checks section; but of course the rest will still have to be moved to their new respective ranks.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Why is Ferrothorn and Scizor in check SI on M-Altaria (which is S rank now) when they can get destroyed by Fire blast on the switchin ? Same for Magnezone / Jirachi / Heatran with EQ...
And I don't know but is Energy ball Manaphy common ? I don't understand why Gastrodon is a check when a lot of Manaphy can run Energy ball and kill it on the switch or after use a water move, maybe i'm wrong yeah but I saw some Energy ball Manaphy on the high ladder.
This was already established but SI means they switch into a pokemon's stab moves.
 
Why is Ferrothorn and Scizor in check SI on M-Altaria (which is S rank now) when they can get destroyed by Fire blast on the switchin ? Same for Magnezone / Jirachi / Heatran with EQ...
Thing is, neither Fire Blast nor Earthquake are seen on even half of all Altaria according to last month's 1825 stats, and each of these Pokemon switch into certain sets depending on the coverage moves they're using. Well, except for Magnezone. It switches in on Fairy STABs, but apart from Scarf sets, it gets outsped and killed by either coverage move, so it really only switches in on mono-attacking sets. It's shaky enough I guess, so I'll move it to NSI since Scarf is still a decent check to every Mega Altaria except a +1 Earthquake variant.

I realize that this is a concern, though. A lot of it just has to do with Mega Altaria itself since very few Pokemon can run physically and specially offensive sets as well as it can, but this issue exists with other Pokemon as well. This is one problem I'm hoping to fix somewhat when I restructure this thing...eventually.

And I don't know but is Energy ball Manaphy common ? I don't understand why Gastrodon is a check when a lot of Manaphy can run Energy ball and kill it on the switch or after use a water move, maybe i'm wrong yeah but I saw some Energy ball Manaphy on the high ladder.
It's around 35% usage, but Manaphy is tricky in that the coverage move it picks will let it beat some checks and leave it shut down completely by others. Gastrodon at least can switch into Manaphy's STABs, and from there you can scout to see if it carries Energy Ball. I know it's a grey area, but again, this is still a work in progress.

Kurona Don't worry, I'll get to that soon enough, probably this weekend sometime since it'll take me a while.
 
Eh I would stick to general switch ins like you are doing now tbh, in regards to you switching up the formatting. I'm pretty sure many of us can find ways to turn a lot of these switch ins into liabilities based on various coverage moves and even then most of these are still switch ins from a general view point. I think it's find how it is personally, the way you are doing it that is.
 
Eh I would stick to general switch ins like you are doing now tbh, in regards to you switching up the formatting. I'm pretty sure many of us can find ways to turn a lot of these switch ins into liabilities based on various coverage moves and even then most of these are still switch ins from a general view point. I think it's find how it is personally, the way you are doing it that is.
Yeah I mean, I like the way I have it now because it's easy to put together and comprehend in my opinion. However, at the very least, I might still move a few things into a new category for guaranteed switch-ins that are safe from basically any standard set (which would be few for some Pokemon) and designate the rest as situational switch-ins, meaning they can only switch in under certain conditions (mostly depending on the coverage moves that the threat is running). Then I'll just leave which checks switch into which conditions up to the judgement of the player. That'll give me a lot of freedom as to what I put in that category without having to worry so much about the grey areas since the entire thing would be implied to be a grey area from the start, but all in due time. For now I'll just focus on things that can switch into a threat's STABs comfortably and win.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
First of all, let me just say how impressive this list is, great job!

A few suggestions concerning the S-A+ ranks :

You should probably add Slowking, Goodra, Noivern and Mega Pidgeot in Landorus checks, possibly Togekiss and Celebi too, even though Sludge Wave is common HP Ice is too and Gliscor is also listed as an SI.

Keldeo checks is missing Azumarill, Gothitelle and Whimsicott as SIs. Also, I'm not 100% sure how big the difference between SIs and non-SIs is, but Salamence being an SI while Noivern (who is faster than Keldeo and cares far less about Scald) isn't feels kinda off to me.

Quagsire is a check to MMetagross since it beats non-GK sets. Sharpedo should probably be added to NSIs since Crunch OHKOs from full.

Magnezone should be added in Azumarill checks, and Toxicorak and Ludicolo are NSEs.

Mandibuzz, Hydreigon and Altaria should be listed as a Bisharp checks.

Mew and Mega-Slowbro are Clefable checks, the latter can CM on and Psyshock it to death if it isn't Unaware while the the latter PP stalls it with Taunt (or just outright kills it if it has Psychock)

Might want to add Gyarados to Gengar checks since Sludge Wave only does around 40% to a SpD set and Waterfall hits back for over 60%. Maybe add Raikou to check too since Sladge Wave doesn't OHKO it and Specs Shadow Ball/ESensory easily OHKOs back.

Add Kyu-B, Thundurus, and Landorus to Gliscor SIs

Gliscor is defenitely a Heatran SI, HP Ice is way too rare on it for it not to be. Slowbro and Slowking also check it pretty decently, though they canb get poisoned in the process, they wall any set without Toxic. Houndoom is a check to defensive sets thanks to Taunt, and Dragalge might be too since most defensive Heatran don't carry Earth Power and can only really hope to burn it.

Add Landorus and Hawlucha in Landorus-T checks since they can switch in on EQ and U-Turn set up on it pretty easily. Regular Latis and Charizard-Y are also good NSIs since they beat defensive Lando-T as well as the offensive variant locked into EQ. I would add Garchomp in there too since the phys def set can force a ton of chip damage on U-Turns

Excadrill and Slowking are Latios SIs, while SpD Hippowdon may be able to qualify as an NSI, although Draco Meteor does hurt a lot it can recover up and stall it out.

Tyrantrum should be added to Talonflame SIs, and Empoleon can check it with a physically defensive set (and beats any set that doesn't run Flare Blitz pretty easily)

If Latios is a Thundurus SI then so is Altaria. Also I'm not sure if I'd call Ferrothorn a SI to Thudnurs given that Focus Blast is very common and that ll Ferro can really do back is Leech Seed and Protect which makes it prone to being set up on. Cresselia and Tyranitar shouldalso be mentioned as Thundurus checks.

I would actually put Klefki in NSIs for Landorus and Landorus-T (more so the latter). Obviously, it can't switch into a ground STAB, but it can switch into any otehr move, Magnet Rise, and handle them from there. After Magnet Rise it walls most if not all Landorus-T completely and hard walls the standard RP/Epower/HP Ice/Sludge Wave or Knock Off set and can just spam Foul Play/Play Rough until it goes down (though it can't beat Focus Blast variants since it's 2HKOed). Same applies to Diggersby and Altaria (checks the DD set), and possibly other Ground types I can't think of.

Also I would add the Mega Latis anywhere the regular ones are (Landorus and Keldeo mainly), given than Pokemon and their megas seem to be treated seperately.
 
Last edited:
First of all, let me just say how impressive this list is, great job!

A few suggestions concerning the S-A+ ranks :

You should probably add Slowking, Goodra, Noivern and Mega Pidgeot in Landorus checks, possibly Togekiss and Celebi too, even though Sludge Wave is common HP Ice is too and Gliscor is also listed as an SI.

Keldeo checks is missing Azumarill, Gothitelle and Whimsicott as SIs. Also, I'm not 100% sure how big the difference between SIs and non-SIs is, but Salamence being an SI while Noivern (who is faster than Keldeo and cares far less about Scald) isn't feels kinda off to me.

Quagsire is a check to MMetagross since it beats non-GK sets. Sharpedo should probably be added to NSIs since Crunch OHKOs from full.

Magnezone should be added in Azumarill checks, and Toxicorak and Ludicolo are NSEs.

Mandibuzz, Hydreigon and Altaria should be listed as a Bisharp checks.

Mew and Mega-Slowbro are Clefable checks, the latter can CM on and Psyshock it to death if it isn't Unaware while the the latter PP stalls it with Taunt (or just outright kills it if it has Psychock)

Might want to add Gyarados to Gengar checks since Sludge Wave only does around 40% to a SpD set and Waterfall hits back for over 60%. Maybe add Raikou to check too since Sladge Wave doesn't OHKO it and Specs Shadow Ball/ESensory easily OHKOs back.

Add Kyu-B, Thundurus, and Landorus to Gliscor SIs

Gliscor is defenitely a Heatran SI, HP Ice is way too rare on it for it not to be. Slowbro and Slowking also check it pretty decently, though they canb get poisoned in the process, they wall any set without Toxic. Houndoom is a check to defensive sets thanks to Taunt, and Dragalge might be too since most defensive Heatran don't carry Earth Power and can only really hope to burn it.

Add Landorus and Hawlucha in Landorus-T checks since they can switch in on EQ and U-Turn set up on it pretty easily. Regular Latis and Charizard-Y are also good NSIs since they beat defensive Lando-T as well as the offensive variant locked into EQ. I would add Garchomp in there too since the phys def set can force a ton of chip damage on U-Turns

Excadrill and Slowking are Latios SIs, while SpD Hippowdon may be able to qualify as an NSI, although Draco Meteor does hurt a lot it can recover up and stall it out.

Tyrantrum should be added to Talonflame SIs, and Empoleon can check it with a physically defensive set (and beats any set that doesn't run Flare Blitz pretty easily)

If Latios is a Thundurus SI then so is Altaria. Also I'm not sure if I'd call Ferrothorn a SI to Thudnurs given that Focus Blast is very common and that ll Ferro can really do back is Leech Seed and Protect which makes it prone to being set up on. Cresselia and Tyranitar shouldalso be mentioned as Thundurus checks.

I would actually put Klefki in NSIs for Landorus and Landorus-T (more so the latter). Obviously, it can't switch into a ground STAB, but it can switch into any otehr move, Magnet Rise, and handle them from there. After Magnet Rise it walls most if not all Landorus-T completely and hard walls the standard RP/Epower/HP Ice/Sludge Wave or Knock Off set and can just spam Foul Play/Play Rough until it goes down (though it can't beat Focus Blast variants since it's 2HKOed). Same applies to Diggersby and Altaria (checks the DD set), and possibly other Ground types I can't think of.

Also I would add the Mega Latis anywhere the regular ones are (Landorus and Keldeo mainly), given than Pokemon and their megas seem to be treated seperately.
I would not call Gothitelle a switch-in to Keldeo, because Choice Specs sets exist, which can 2HKO Gothitelle, especially since Goth's Scarf sets cannot OHKO. Just list Gothitelle as an NSI towards Keldeo.
 
First of all, let me just say how impressive this list is, great job!

A few suggestions concerning the S-A+ ranks :

You should probably add Slowking, Goodra, Noivern and Mega Pidgeot in Landorus checks, possibly Togekiss and Celebi too, even though Sludge Wave is common HP Ice is too and Gliscor is also listed as an SI.

Keldeo checks is missing Azumarill, Gothitelle and Whimsicott as SIs. Also, I'm not 100% sure how big the difference between SIs and non-SIs is, but Salamence being an SI while Noivern (who is faster than Keldeo and cares far less about Scald) isn't feels kinda off to me.

Quagsire is a check to MMetagross since it beats non-GK sets. Sharpedo should probably be added to NSIs since Crunch OHKOs from full.

Magnezone should be added in Azumarill checks, and Toxicorak and Ludicolo are NSEs.

Mandibuzz, Hydreigon and Altaria should be listed as a Bisharp checks.

Mew and Mega-Slowbro are Clefable checks, the latter can CM on and Psyshock it to death if it isn't Unaware while the the latter PP stalls it with Taunt (or just outright kills it if it has Psychock)

Might want to add Gyarados to Gengar checks since Sludge Wave only does around 40% to a SpD set and Waterfall hits back for over 60%. Maybe add Raikou to check too since Sladge Wave doesn't OHKO it and Specs Shadow Ball/ESensory easily OHKOs back.

Add Kyu-B, Thundurus, and Landorus to Gliscor SIs

Gliscor is defenitely a Heatran SI, HP Ice is way too rare on it for it not to be. Slowbro and Slowking also check it pretty decently, though they canb get poisoned in the process, they wall any set without Toxic. Houndoom is a check to defensive sets thanks to Taunt, and Dragalge might be too since most defensive Heatran don't carry Earth Power and can only really hope to burn it.

Add Landorus and Hawlucha in Landorus-T checks since they can switch in on EQ and U-Turn set up on it pretty easily. Regular Latis and Charizard-Y are also good NSIs since they beat defensive Lando-T as well as the offensive variant locked into EQ. I would add Garchomp in there too since the phys def set can force a ton of chip damage on U-Turns

Excadrill and Slowking are Latios SIs, while SpD Hippowdon may be able to qualify as an NSI, although Draco Meteor does hurt a lot it can recover up and stall it out.

Tyrantrum should be added to Talonflame SIs, and Empoleon can check it with a physically defensive set (and beats any set that doesn't run Flare Blitz pretty easily)

If Latios is a Thundurus SI then so is Altaria. Also I'm not sure if I'd call Ferrothorn a SI to Thudnurs given that Focus Blast is very common and that ll Ferro can really do back is Leech Seed and Protect which makes it prone to being set up on. Cresselia and Tyranitar shouldalso be mentioned as Thundurus checks.

I would actually put Klefki in NSIs for Landorus and Landorus-T (more so the latter). Obviously, it can't switch into a ground STAB, but it can switch into any otehr move, Magnet Rise, and handle them from there. After Magnet Rise it walls most if not all Landorus-T completely and hard walls the standard RP/Epower/HP Ice/Sludge Wave or Knock Off set and can just spam Foul Play/Play Rough until it goes down (though it can't beat Focus Blast variants since it's 2HKOed). Same applies to Diggersby and Altaria (checks the DD set), and possibly other Ground types I can't think of.

Also I would add the Mega Latis anywhere the regular ones are (Landorus and Keldeo mainly), given than Pokemon and their megas seem to be treated seperately.
Just wondering, how does Altaria check Bisharp?
 
First of all, let me just say how impressive this list is, great job!

A few suggestions concerning the S-A+ ranks :

You should probably add Slowking, Goodra, Noivern and Mega Pidgeot in Landorus checks, possibly Togekiss and Celebi too, even though Sludge Wave is common HP Ice is too and Gliscor is also listed as an SI.

Keldeo checks is missing Azumarill, Gothitelle and Whimsicott as SIs. Also, I'm not 100% sure how big the difference between SIs and non-SIs is, but Salamence being an SI while Noivern (who is faster than Keldeo and cares far less about Scald) isn't feels kinda off to me.

Quagsire is a check to MMetagross since it beats non-GK sets. Sharpedo should probably be added to NSIs since Crunch OHKOs from full.

Magnezone should be added in Azumarill checks, and Toxicorak and Ludicolo are NSEs.

Mandibuzz, Hydreigon and Altaria should be listed as a Bisharp checks.

Mew and Mega-Slowbro are Clefable checks, the latter can CM on and Psyshock it to death if it isn't Unaware while the the latter PP stalls it with Taunt (or just outright kills it if it has Psychock)

Might want to add Gyarados to Gengar checks since Sludge Wave only does around 40% to a SpD set and Waterfall hits back for over 60%. Maybe add Raikou to check too since Sladge Wave doesn't OHKO it and Specs Shadow Ball/ESensory easily OHKOs back.

Add Kyu-B, Thundurus, and Landorus to Gliscor SIs

Gliscor is defenitely a Heatran SI, HP Ice is way too rare on it for it not to be. Slowbro and Slowking also check it pretty decently, though they canb get poisoned in the process, they wall any set without Toxic. Houndoom is a check to defensive sets thanks to Taunt, and Dragalge might be too since most defensive Heatran don't carry Earth Power and can only really hope to burn it.

Add Landorus and Hawlucha in Landorus-T checks since they can switch in on EQ and U-Turn set up on it pretty easily. Regular Latis and Charizard-Y are also good NSIs since they beat defensive Lando-T as well as the offensive variant locked into EQ. I would add Garchomp in there too since the phys def set can force a ton of chip damage on U-Turns

Excadrill and Slowking are Latios SIs, while SpD Hippowdon may be able to qualify as an NSI, although Draco Meteor does hurt a lot it can recover up and stall it out.

Tyrantrum should be added to Talonflame SIs, and Empoleon can check it with a physically defensive set (and beats any set that doesn't run Flare Blitz pretty easily)

If Latios is a Thundurus SI then so is Altaria. Also I'm not sure if I'd call Ferrothorn a SI to Thudnurs given that Focus Blast is very common and that ll Ferro can really do back is Leech Seed and Protect which makes it prone to being set up on. Cresselia and Tyranitar shouldalso be mentioned as Thundurus checks.

I would actually put Klefki in NSIs for Landorus and Landorus-T (more so the latter). Obviously, it can't switch into a ground STAB, but it can switch into any otehr move, Magnet Rise, and handle them from there. After Magnet Rise it walls most if not all Landorus-T completely and hard walls the standard RP/Epower/HP Ice/Sludge Wave or Knock Off set and can just spam Foul Play/Play Rough until it goes down (though it can't beat Focus Blast variants since it's 2HKOed). Same applies to Diggersby and Altaria (checks the DD set), and possibly other Ground types I can't think of.

Also I would add the Mega Latis anywhere the regular ones are (Landorus and Keldeo mainly), given than Pokemon and their megas seem to be treated seperately.
Now that's what I'm talking about! I've implemented all of your suggestions, with the only changes being whether I put a couple of checks in SI or NSI. Also, I've updated the list to reflect the recent changes in the viability rankings. The only thing left to do is add in Feraligatr, which I'll do sometime tomorrow when I'm not so tired. Thanks as always!
 
Hey, nice project. It's quite useful for teambuilding. I'd just like to point out one thing, though - I don't see any list of Mega Sceptile checks in the thread, despite being a B rank threat.
 
Hey, nice project. It's quite useful for teambuilding. I'd just like to point out one thing, though - I don't see any list of Mega Sceptile checks in the thread, despite being a B rank threat.
Yeah, apparently it didn't save when I moved it from B+ to B rank. That's fixed now, thanks!

Also, I don't know what keeps happening to Serperior's second bullet lol, but I've tried fixing it several times and it keeps breaking itself.
 

Clone

No more next year
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Also, I don't know what keeps happening to Serperior's second bullet lol, but I've tried fixing it several times and it keeps breaking itself.
If you /really/ want to fix it, you have to surround it with tags and delete whatever part of the BBC code that's messed up and manually put it in. I don't recommend it though because it oftentimes requires you to re add any images that were in the part that you selected.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top