Resource OU Checks Compendium

[SketchUp]

sorry for not putting sprites in my checks list ;~;

Chansey should probably be put on gsi since I haven't seen LO Superpower volc on high ladder at all, maybe same with blissey. Kyub should be added to ssi because fire blast isn't used that much when people use volcanion and LO ep either ohkos or is a roll to ohko. tornt should be added to nsi since it can 2hko with hurri and can tank at least one hit. Latios should probably be added to nsi since Specs steam eruption is a roll to 2hko+burn chance and im psure that draco doesn't ohko volc. (mega) slowbro should be added to nsi if not ssi since it can set up on volc locked into either of its stab moves and only really fears getting hit with a hp electric or hp grass.

If LO Superpower turns out to be unsuccessful, which I doubt it will, pokemon like Chansey and Goodra will move up to GSI. Until the metagame has settled and Volcanion received an analysis I think it's best to stick with the sets posted by AM.

About your other points:
- Latios takes any hit, even Specs HP Ice after rocks, and OHKO's back in return with Draco Meteor, while it also has reliable recovery. If Hydreigon is a SSI, Latios should be too.
- I'll move Kyurem-B to SSI
- Also Mega Slowbro and Slowbro to NSI. I am not really convinced they should go SSI because Defensive Volcanion beats them and Specs 2HKO's with every move bar Fire Blast and Steam Eruption not burning.
- Still not really sure about Tornadus-T because it still has a chance to get OHKO'd after Stealth Rock damage and it has to hit 2 Hurricanes to 2HKO back. I don't think accuracy is a really strong argument but in this situation Tornadus-T is already a pretty shaky check because of the rocks weakness, so for now I won't put it on the list.

Edit: Also added MGyara. Didn't do any calcs so I'll just go for SSI for now

 

[AM]

I'd still add M-Gyarados somewhere just cause Mold Breaker so it doesn't care about Water Absorb. Sort of in the same boat as Gyarados I guess :o ?

 

[Random Passerby]

Not sure where to place Mega Sceptile to be honest. Probably NSI because while it takes Steam Eruption well (yay to 4x resist), Fire Blast and Sludge Bomb OHKOes.

Kyu-B takes Steam Eruption decently but dies to Fire Blast. However, it can blow Volcanion back with Earth Power / Fusion Bolt.

Calculations

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sceptile: 84-100 (29.8 - 35.5%) -- 27.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 252-297 (78.9 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 161-190 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 291-343 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[OrdA]

Am I correct in assuming that Volcanions mostly run a choice set?

If so, the discussion we had in the last thread about Specs Sylvon and Skarmory applies, in which we concluded that skarmory is an SSI because it can switch into the STAB moves and force Sylveon out. (We ended up concluding that HP Fire isn't a move regularly used on switch ins and falls under coverage. See the Category definitions in Post 2.)

As for updating the compendium, I am still working on making this easier. I'm hoping to finish that in a reasonable amount of time, but if I don't I will update it by hand in a short time. I have been working on a piratepad with all the suggestions from this thread in it, and will post to cover all of them at once, when I'm done. (Sorry, your ideas have not been forgotten.)

 

[bludz]

Add Nidoking please, when you can get around to it.

Also I think Volcanion primarily runs Specs. I have run into maybe one LO variant and personally see very little merit in it outside of luring Chansey. Unless this set actually proves itself to be popular, I think Goodra and Chansey should move up to GSI, as should Slowking regardless. All based on Sketchups list

I was looking through and saw some things which I think could use some edits, but I'll abstain from piling on for now since I know you already have a lot of updates to do Orda.

 

[SketchUp]

I also haven't seen many Life Orb variants so in my opinion Chansey and Goodra as bludz mentioned, as well as Blissey, could move up to GSI. Slowking's defensive set still loses to Modest Specs after rocks 60% of the time, while AV gets 3HKO'd by HP Grass and fails to OHKO Volcanion, so I am still not entirely convinced on it being a GSI.

Nidoking:
1. I added pokemon like Garchomp to SSI for the same reason Latios is a SSI for Mega Medicham: Latios survives both STAB attacks from MMedicham and OHKO's it back, even though it loses to HJK + Bullet Punch and Ice Punch. I guess this is where it gets a lot trickier compared to Volcanion's checks, especially if you consider Sucker Punch. I have to admit pokemons like Garchomp, Hydreigon and Zygarde are pretty shaky as a SSI. If the majority of people agrees it should go to NSI, but I think they deserve SSI.
2. I made the difference between pokemon like Hydreigon and Diggersby / Mamoswine in that Hydreigon can take any hit bar Ice Beam and OHKO in return, while both Mamoswine and Diggersby are slower and take up to 90% from Earth Power. They win 1v1, but they are left with a few % of their health (or even no health because of LO recoil) so I wouldn't really call them reliable checks.
3. Pokemon like Slowbro and Reuniclus are added because they can come in on a revengekill and start Calm Minding up.
GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

, Hoopa,

 

[Q10jj34eeDnK]

Ferrothorn

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

 

[Natan]

Alomomola is a Volcanion's SSI (but can only damage with Toxic, like Suicune)

Blastoise-Mega too (and may 2HKO with Aura Sphere or Dark Pulse)

 

[Random Passerby]

Nidoking:

GSI:

SSI:

NSI:

, Hoopa,

What's the reason why Kyu-B, Zard-X, Zard-Y, Mega Gard and Manaphy not being considered for NSI?
All of them outspeeds Nidoking and can OHKO it. Some like Nidoking and Manaphy can also live a hit if required.

Goodra can also be considered (NSI for Specs, AV (bad set, I know) counters Nidoking)

Calculations

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 216-255 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 460-541 (151.8 - 178.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 322-381 (106.2 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Nidoking: 384-452 (126.7 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking in Sun: 397-468 (131 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 175-208 (58.9 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 278-330 (91.7 - 108.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 199-234 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 177-208 (55.1 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 358-423 (118.1 - 139.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 117-140 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- 65.3% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[power]

Since when were Msab/Clef mega bro checks?

standard mbro just cms on both and breaks clef with psyshock and sab with scald.

Edit: Also where the hell is jirachi?

 

[HailFall]

Since when were Msab/Clef mega bro checks?

Im assuming this is referencing unaware clefable and cm mega sableye. both of those sets are pretty awful but deserve representation regardless imo.

in addition all current gsi but nidoking and nidoqueen should probably be moved to ssi for clefable because if it gets paralyzed by clefable even some of its best answers can be cheesed past.

In a similar vein i think everything that can be hit by breloom's spore and is listed as a gsi should be moved to ssi.

Gastrodon should be added to gsi for mega diancie
252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Gastrodon: 166-196 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Gastrodon: 112-132 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 79.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Slowking should be moved to ssi for mega metagross; thunderpunch variants beat it.

edit: removed a couple lure things that didnt actually have enough usage to prevent certain things being gsi

 

[MANNAT]

Just a couple quick things to say about Zapdos:

• It should be an SSI/GSI for bisharp since Adamant Life Orb knock off fails to 2HKO and Sucker fails to OHKO at +2 while Zapdos has a high chance (80+) to kill Bisharp after a round of Life Orb recoil.
• It should be an SSI for Talonflame because xtra's HO team is literally the only team that still uses fire STAB talonflame and you can beat TFlame if it clicks any move bar FB when you come in.

 

[OrdA]

Just a couple quick things to say about Zapdos

Agreeing on Talonflame. As for Bisharp, I think you would have to include stealth rocks in those calcs. (Unless we are assuming Zapdos to be on a msab team, in which case rocks still might go up from some rock setters.)

 

[SketchUp]

So this thread has been dead for over 6 months but I think it deserves some more attention. It's one of the most useful resources and with ORAS coming to an end, I think it'd be nice if most questionable stuff could be dealt with. To give some examples:
- Nidoking and Volcanion are not in the compendium, while Mega Houndoom, Chesnaught and Sylveon are.
- Some obvious things like Latias being a GSI for Heatran, Mandibuzz being a GSI for Bisharp, Quagsire being a GSI for Excadrill and MVenusaur being a GSI for Crawdaunt (Banded Crunch) should change
- Metagame has changed and the compendium should reflect that. Examples are Specs Latios, Vincune, Specs Kyurem and Focus Blast Keldeo

It's probably gonna take a while to get all things done but I feel like the most important things should be done before ORAS ends. It will be the main OU tier for just another 1.5 months so I doubt a huge metagame shift will happen. The most important thing would be to take a second look at the checks and counters of the most important pokemon (A or higher in Viability Rankings).

What could be done for example is to make the requirements for something to be GSI clearer. For example:
a. The pokemon should be able to counter all sets in the analysis (main sets)
b. The pokemon should be able to counter all moves and items above 10% in the usage stats and OO in the analysis. The % could also be 5%, just an example fwiw.
((Edit: I understand that there is already a definition like this in the second post, but I'd still emphasize what you mean with 'common enough'))

If you take Keldeo then:
- Tangrowth should be SSI: Focus Blast is on the analysis and 2HKOs
- Celebi should be GSI: HP Bug isn't on one of the main sets, isn't in the OO section, is below 10%
- MVenu should be GSI: HP Flying isn't on the main set. It is in the OO section, but it is still below 10% in the usage stats

I don't think anyone really cares about what happens to the less relevant stuff like Lucario or Mega Beedrill in this compendium so I would just keep those things the same as they are now.