OU Overcentralizator - Scizor?

[1059860]

NOTE: The POLL is only a hypothesis of what you think Scizor deserves.
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SPEED DON'T MATTER!

From the big bold letters, you kinda can already tell the point of this thread... I know that you Scizor-lovers don't want to get rid of this precious member on your team, but on the cheapness scale, speak again.

Does this thing worth a test?

Anyway, here's a Scizor:

@ Life Orb / Occa Berry
Adamant: 32 HP/252 Atk/224 Spe
TECHNICIAN
- Bullet Punch
- Sword Dance
- Superpower/Brick Break/Roost
- X-Scissor/Roost

STAB Bullet Punch (Base Power 90) is insanely strong, with +1 Priority... With a Sword Dance, on top of Scizor's base 130 attack is insane, not to mention the max out attack and the Adamant Nature.

This thing adds 1 more reason for Salamence, Gyarados/Bulky Water, and Heatran to one's team. Similar to a Swampert, it only has 1 weakness (a 4x weakness), it's obviously the one that most people have been hunting down--its weakness against Fire type moves.

Occa Berry serves as an alternative, like Garchomp's Yache Berry, Occa Berry can reduce a Fire Power move for once, allow it to pull 2 Sword Dances if used right.

Although, namingly, there's quite a few OU Pokemon that can counter this beast, but Scizor has the potential to REALLY prevent switches with Stealth Rock, since Bullet Punch, after at least 1 Sword Dance and Life Orb, is capable of killing off MANY Pokemon at low health.

Let's compare Scizor with Garchomp for a second:
Its overcentralization is slightly different than Garchomp--
* There is no Fire moves with a priority (unlike Ice Shard).
* Garchomp served to be more superior than many other physical sweepers, meaning that using him to sweep was more beneficial than using anything else...

Scizor, on the other hand, served to centralized its counters, by putting others to disuse. Any physical walls that is incapable of walling Scizor, or anything with a quite-low Defense and is incapable of taking Scizor's hit or kill Scizor, has fallen in use. Slowbro is one of the best examples, and hopefully you're not going to switch Azelf in to Flamethrower it, right?

This beast not only outstand itself in Platinum metagame, but has also put many others to disuse. It has generally put another barrier, limiting the "OU" from everything else.

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Of course, Scizor, with its decent HP and quite solid Defense, is able to switch into a few of the most commonly used OU, such Tyranitar and Weavile (which has lost much of its popularity in Plat.)

When YOU USE IT [Scizor], it is no doubt a great sweeper and revenge killer at late game if you kill the opponent's counters, as well as killing things that have low HP, either worn down by other teammates' attacks or Stealth Rock/Spikes/Statuses...
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When you're FACING IT, it's a pain if your counters died, right?
Let's look at its main counters... I'm colorcoding this for a reason too...

• Heatran - Dugtrio (Ground* or Fighting or Water) moves. Scarf vs. Scarf if needed.
• Salamence - Ice* or Rock
• Gyarados - Electric* or Rock
• Bulky Waters - Electric or Grass
• Rotom-H - Ghost or Dark
  
• Skarmory - Fire or Electric
• Hippowdon - Ice or Grass or Water
  
• Zapdo - Ice or Rock
• Etc. (I know there are ones that I didn't list, but these are the MAIN ones, or most of them.)

* = 4x Effective
The above list are only types of moves that are used to counter those Pokemon MOST of the time. It may not contain the full list of weaknesses it has.

Now, looking on that list...

• Ground moves are very often seen. Apparently, Earthquake is the most used move in the OU environment.
• Water... Look how many Bulky Waters there are? Nearly one on every team.
• Ice moves -- A team is not a team without at least two.
• Rock moves are very popular as well; Aerodactyl is a common lead; Stone Edge is quite overused; Stealth Rock hurts from switching!!!
• Electric moves are nearly as common as Ice moves, with BoltBeam's famousness, it really takes a lot, as you can see, to the ones on that list.
• Fire is also very, very common so...

Basically, all of those Pokemon above can all be easily killed by very common forms of offense, besides Rotom, who we wonder why there are more Toasters than Fans, Fridges, Washers or Mowers (note the sarcasm).

Anyways, in conclusion, to me, Scizor has add an invisible restriction to the amount of Pokemon that would fair well in OU, and greaterly separated the extremely overused from the others. Note that many, nearly half, of the most overused OUs (again, emphasizing on Scizor's greater increase of the gap) today fair well in Sandstorm, and have anyone noticed the rapid jump of the number of Sandstorm teams used today in Ladder? Not to mention that Scizor also benefits on Sandstorm as it is immune to it, AND on top of that, the 6% per turn cancels out some of the Leftovers on the opponent's team (besides Rock/Ground/Steel types), and hurt the rest who don't have a healing item.

I haven't seen many other weathers, such as Hail, Sun, or Rain teams anymore in OU, since Rain teams often contain partially ice types, and they're weak against Bullet Punch. Hail team, same thing. Sun is quite hard to benefit from the majority, and most importantly of all, the often-seen Sandstorm, by Tyranitar or Hippowdon, greatly cancels out all of the effects by simply switching in. Scizor loves the SR/SS weardowns; add some Toxic or Burn, he can Bullet Punch 80% of them to death. And if he can't, half of the stuff he can X-Scissor, like Bronzong, who can't really do much to him, and Explosion don't even get past Scizor's great defense/HP on top of his typing.

What's your thought on this thing? Should this be tested? Remember, a Pokemon that doesn't fair well in Uber doesn't mean it shouldn't be Uber. Namingly Deoxys (normal).

 

[gorm]

no. it has several feasible checks in todays metagame.

 

[chenman333]

The difference between Chomp and Scizor is this: Chomp was nearly guaranteed to get a kill with Yache/SD, whereas you switch Zapdos in there against Scizor...and he can't do jack shit besides a quick attack.

I can see the centralization part of it a bit though. But Scizor just has some very definitive counters that totally kick his ass. Whereas you didn't have that with chomp.

 

[Ellington]

No. Its counters are many and do not need to specialize just to be able to counter him.

He's powerful sure, but within reasonable limits.

 

[Olie]

Scizor's not like Garchomp. Scizor actually has counters like Bronzong that Scizor can't do anything to.

 

[lilyhollow]

Scizor's a good pokemon.

 

[Darkerkrai]

DDSalamence's counters can be dealt with as SDScizor's counters can; get my point?. Most of the Pokemon you listed were common before Scizor got Bullet Punch, anyway >.>.

Weavile can use Hail to keep Leftovers from activating as AgiliGross can use a Sandstorm.

I don't see how Scizor is overcentralizing :(.

 

[Droideka88]

Scizor may be a top tier OU but according to my theory of Semi Ubers, it wouldn't be the top user.

Though a test with Scizor against the many Ubers may prove how truly fragile it is. :)

This thing adds 1 more reason for Salamence

No. Dragonite's bulk defenses and special defense would do a better job than Salamance's average DEF and SDEF stats against Scizor since speed for the dragons don't necessarily matter as Scizor users have the option to attack the dragons nonetheless of switch, switch back and use Bullet Punch.

 

[gorm]

scizor is used in ubers, and besides the ability of a pokemon to function in the current uber metagame has nothing to do with whether it is ban worthy.

 

[Bogmire]

Scizor is a good check against many threats in the metagame but it has too many paper counters and checks to be considered uber or suspect worthy.

No. Dragonite's bulk defenses and special defense would do a better job than Salamance's average DEF and SDEF stats against Scizor since speed for the dragons don't necessarily matter as Scizor users have the option to attack the dragons nonetheless of switch, switch back and use Bullet Punch.

Intimidate makes all the difference.

 

[wildfire393]

Hm... While Scizor is strong, I wouldn't so so far as to say he is overcentralizing. Steel is a rather bad attack type, and even with a SD, Bullet Punch won't take out even neutrally-hit Pokemon with any amount of bulk. Yes, it's a 90 BP attack, but that's with STAB taken into account. Without STAB, it's only 60 base power. SD Garchomp operated with 100 BP and 120 BP STAB attacks. Additionally, his Speed Score is rather pitiful, meaning anything he cannot Bullet Punch is likely to be able to outspeed him.

Also, even though he has only one weakness, he has a fairly large number of Neutralities, including the ever-so-common Water, Electric, Ground, Fighting, and Rock.

Honestly, Scizor only sweeps (and thus invalidates) a single type of team - one composed entirely of fragile sweepers, none of which are Electric, Fire, Water, or Steel. If your team seems otherwise insanely Scizor weak, just run something like Suicune with HP Fire. Or Heatran. Or Rotom-H. Or any other Bulky Water. Or a Steel with a decent Defense and any Fire Move.

 

[Venom]

I don't exactly understand why you say Scizor can possibly be Uber, I understand it can be "annoying (what the hell?)" for some people, but it does not make it Uber worthy, or to even consider it Uber.

 

[gorm]

the probblem is that we don't have a proper definition and people use the word everytime the metagame is affected by something.

heatran is so dominant that it forces you to use water types/tyranitar/blissey-->overcentralization??

blissey lowers the effectiveness of every single special sweeper in the metagame -->overcentralization??
overcentralization is a purely statistical term, you can't use it every time there is a metagame effect due to a single pokemon.

 

[Droideka88]

Scizor is a good check against many threats in the metagame but it has too many paper counters and checks to be considered uber or suspect worthy.

Intimidate makes all the difference.

Another sigificant trait I forgot to check: Ability.

Just watch out for Bulky Dragonites...they may be rare but expect the unexpected.

 

[cim]

I can't believe it. I can't believe it at all.

Someone made the thread I was going to make for trolling purposes to hype an obviously OU Pokémon into Ubers simply because people are unwilling to have some kind of check.

Hey guys, guess what? Powerful Pokémon change the metagame. All Pokémon change the metagame. Your favorite Pokémon is less viable with a change? Too bad. Every Pokémon forces you to pack a check or counter to it or you will be swept by it.

This is the fundamental problem behind majority blind vote. When the game changes, if someone has to change their team it's automatically "overcentralization" and they vote Uber. This isn't exclusive to Ubers, though! Everything from Scizor to Tyranitar to Salamence to Metagross to Blissey makes you change your team to account for it, you just don't notice because they are already there. When something new comes that does this even less so than them, people flip out.

 

[Stathakis]

um, no.

occa berry is not useable like yache on chomp, mainly because the fire attacks aimed at scizor are at a puny sp.def stat and have STAB backing them up. the main exception is zapdos, who resists scizor's whole movepool pretty much. it is not guaranteed a kill in any way, and it does not force people to use dedicated scizor counters just to not lose immediately. in fact, I hardly even think about scizor when building teams, but every team I've built has never had any problem with scizor. so the pokemon that stop it already are viable ou pokemon, therefore it does not overcentralize anything.

and as far as considering it on a team, I almost always will choose lucario over scizor anyways, for its ability to actually beat some of its dedicated counters as well as the base 180 close combat.

why do i get the feeling you're just pissey about losing to a scizor one match and are now trying to get it banned?

 

[1059860]

The point of this thread isn't how Scizor will fair in Ubers; it's how Scizor is changing this game, and see if the impact worths a test.

 

[Venom]

The impact its doing is not game-breaking, why it should be tested?

 

[Great Sage]

No.