OU Sun Team

[Natural20]

So I've gone and put together a team that is probably actually worth rating. And a tonne of you are going to yourself "Oh Jesus Christ, OU Sun, not this again." To you I promise, this team is different! This team is unique!

Okay, I lied. Sue me. The team isn't exactly that unique. But I've managed to pilot the thing to a 1200 rating with about a week of competitive battling experience ever under my belt. Whilst that's not the lofty heights of 1350, it's pretty good for a newbie, or at least I like to think so. Regardless, being as green as I am there are likely to be tremendous flaws in my plan that I've managed to overlook and I'm relying on you the wonderful people of Smogon to help me out here.

Let's look at the participants.

Jumpingbear (Jumpluff) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 188 Def / 68 SDef (Edit: Thanks for those that caught the SAtk) / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Aromatherapy

Jumpluff is wonderful. It serves as my default opener due to its amazing speed stat. Generally if there's going to be a weather war, I send in Jumpluff first with the hopes of getting a subseed kill nice and early. Generally, Sleeppowder->Subseed as my first move works well, if slightly unreliably. Jumpluff also doubles as a sweep stopper, being able to use chlorophyll boosted speed to get in front of something sweeping me, put it to sleep and subseed it down. Aromatherapy takes the last slot because it was becoming increasingly apparent that paralysis was crippling my team to the point that being able to remove it became more worthwhile than being able to U-turn on stuff for negligible damage.

Beartales (Ninetales) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 96 SDef / 164 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Roar


Fairly standarad moveset on the Ninetales, running bulk to keep itself alive and 164 Speed alongside a timid nature to revenge kill Excadrills that try to sweep me. WoW and Substitute are a standard fare as well. Allowing me to WoW more reliably when I threaten things out/bait a tyranitar in. Roar is the move from left field here, taken over HP fighting and protect. The reason being is that too many times have shady characters like Reuniclis used Ninetales as set up fodder, forcing me to give up a substitute that was hard fought. Even though killing Ttar puts me at a big advantage, lots of people are wary of switching directly into Ninetales.

Beartini (Victini) @ Choice Band
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- V-create
- Fusion Bolt
- Brick Break
- U-turn


Victini is just straight up ridiculous. The lynchpin of the team. V-Create hits at 270 power in the Sun and since it's choiced it hits like a goddamn truck. He partners very well with Vaporeon, Vaporeon drawing out types that Victini resists before Wishpassing to the little bugger. The remaining moves exist for coverage. Fusion Bolt is there primarily to kill a Toed switch in, brick break to kill a Tyranitar switch in. U-turn is there for my massive paranoia issues.

Bearvee (Vaporeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar
- Ice Beam

Vaporeon is my defensive wall and does an amazing job of it. Water typing and incredible bulk basically mean very little can 1HKO it and only two of the less common types can 2HKO it. Wish is there for passing to Victini, Sawsbuck and Heatran. I don't use Surf primarily because it's completely crippled by Sun and again, things really enjoy trying to set up on Vaporeon so Roar is just out and out a better choice. Ice Beam is there for Dragon and Gliscor slaying. Garchomp fears this guy because of that.

Sawsbear (Sawsbuck) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 116 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Return
- Nature Power

Yes it's not a Venusaur. Give me a break. Sawsbuck works well as a complement to Victini with Vaporeon able to wishpass over to this guy when facing Electric attacks. Where it trumps Venusaur in my opinion is the STAB to return and the reliable self healing it gets from Horn Leech which the team so desperately needs. Simply, I just like Sawsbuck's coverage a whole lot more than Venusaur's.

Heatbear (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
​

Specially defensive Heatran is how we deal with Draco Meteor. But it's also useful for taking down other fire types that like to take advantage of the free sun we provide them to sweep the rest of the team. Lava plume is there for the burn, Stealth Rock because there's nowhere else we can put it. Toxic and Protect alongside Vaporeon Wishpassing is how this guy really accumulates damage on people. He's there above other steel types because other steel types get completely wrecked in Sun due to stronger fire moves.
​

Overall Team Strategy:

Start off with Jumpluff in a weather war or Ninetales if we don't have to worry about that. Our game then revolves around using Vaporeon to safely get to Victini who can then V-create something to death, or predict a weather switch in and kill it. If weather users switch into Ninetales, burn them and wear them down with residual damage from that. Sawsbuck comes in late on to sweep any remaining threats.

Problems:

We don't have a rapid spinner. This is rather problematic. But there simply isn't space for one which is rather frustrating. (Space that I can see anyway) All things considered the team doesn't perform that badly against hazard stall. Another reason for Venusaur but I'll be damned if I don't hate his coverage.

Offensive Threats

Aerodactyl - Vaporeon /w Ice beam

Archeops - Vaporeon /w Ice beam

Azelf - Victini /w V-create

Bisharp - Heatran /w Lava Plume

Breloom - Victini /w V-create, nasty with a sub up though since Vaporeon can't Roar it away safely and Ninetales is fragile.

Chandelure - Flash Fire with a Ghost type is quite evil. Predict shadow ball, switch in Sawsbuck, kill with Earthquake.

Cobalion - Victini /w V-Create

Conkeldurr - Victini /w V-Create Nasty if Victini isn't alive though.

Darmanitan - Very nasty, especially stone edge choiced variants. Usually have to sacrifice something and kill with Sawsbuck earthquake.

Deoxys-S - Victini /w V-Create

Dragonite - Vaporeon /w Ice Beam, if it's running as a Choiced Special attacker it can be painful though.

Druddigon -Vaporeon /w Ice beam

Eelektross - Victini /w V-Create

Electivire - Sawsbuck /w Earthquake

Empoleon - Sawsbuck /w Earthquake

Espeon - Victini /w V-Create

Escavalier - Victini /w V-Create

Excadrill - Ninetales Revenge/Anything if Sandstorm isn't up.

Garchomp - Vaporeon /w Ice Beam

Genesect -

Gengar - It's too goddamn fast! Sawsbuck Horn Leech/Jumpluff Subseed are the best bets.

Golurk - Blegh, ground ghost. Nasty on the offensive, revenge kill with Sawsbuck/Safe switch with Sawsbuck.

Gyarados - Water flying, ALL MY HATE. Revenge kill with Victini is the best bet using Fusion Bolt.

Haxorus - Vaporeon /w Ice beam

Heatran - Victini /w Brick Break

Heracross - Victini /w V-Create

Hydreigon - Vaporeon/Heatran teamcombo this. Toxic from Heatran followed by swapping into Vaporeon for the inevitable surf. Spam wish and protect.

Infernape - Problematic because it outpaces Victini and can stone edge the little bugger. Usually using heatran to absorb fire before swapping into Jumpluff to take the fighting attack and setting up subseed is the best way to deal with it.

Jirachi - My hatred for this thing burns with the fire of a thousand suns. You know why Jumpluff has aromatherapy? This guy. Heatran /w Lava plume works.

Jolteon - Again, it's fast, I don't like fast things. Sawsbuck nails it though.

Kingdra - Quad fire resist is always a pain. Sawsbuck has a fairly good time here though.

Kyurem - Ahahaha an ice type.

Landorus - Ground flying vs. Vaporeon Ice beam.

Latios - Heatran /w toxic protect

Lilligant - Any fire pokemon

Lucario - Victini /w V-create

Machamp -Man I hate machamp. Burn it, wear it down with Vaporeon stall, ideally, subseed it.

Magnezone -Victini /w V-create

Mamoswine - Set it on fire

Meloetta-S -

Meloetta-V -

Metagross - Heatran air balloon

Mienshao -Victini V-create

Reuniclus -Victini V-create

Roserade -Victini V-create

Salamence -Vaporeon Ice beam

Sawsbuck - Hate this mirror, Heatran balloon switching in on SD works though.

Scizor -Victini V-create

Scrafty- Dark fighting, what a bastard. Sucker punches victini, murders sawsbuck. Wear him down with Subseed is the best way. (Probably the only way)

Seismitoad - Sawsbuck.

Shaymin -Victini V-create

Sigilyph -Victini V-create

Smeargle -Roar

Starmie - Sawsbuck Horn Leech

Terakion - Nasty due to his fighting subtype. Earthquake from Sawsbuck.

Thundurus - Sunlight to prevent hurricane spam, Sawsbuck /w Return

Togekiss - Paralysis bastard like jirachi. Harder to deal with because it's a flying type.

Tornadus - Vaporeon /w Ice beam

Tyranitar - It's important to kill this guy. Predicted brick break from Victini works best. Ninetales burning it and then switching out to Sawsbuck who murders it with horn leech is good too. The lack of HP fighting on Ninetales is annoying though as are teams with this guy and lots of hazard support.

Venusaur - Sawsbuck has speed on him, but most of these guys carry HP fire. Heatran is the best bet.

Victini - Heatran can wall the fire attacks but is left vulnerable to the fighting. Best to sacrifice something then quake it with Sawsbuck.

Virizion - Blegh, nasty one because of the fighting subtype and grass being able to own my defensive wall. Best bet is Victini but it's tight because Virizion is so fast.

Volcarona - Roar it away to stop quiver dance. Hit it with earthquake/V-create to down it.

Weavile - Dark type makes it annoying. Ninetales is pretty safe though.

Zoroark - Again, dark typing is annoying, Sawsbuck hurts it most.

The defensive list is a lot shorter seeing as so many just explode against Sun V-create and are setup fodder for me.

Defensive Threats

Alomomola - V-create

Blissey -V-create

Bronzong -V-create

Celebi -V-create

Chansey -V-create

Deoxys-D - V-create

Cofagrigus -V-create

Crustle -V-create

Dusclops - V-create

Ferrothorn -V-create (quad damage V-create!)

Forretress -V-create (quad damage V-create!)

Garbodor - V-create

Gigalith -Oh christ, it has sturdy and an earthquake. Poke with vaporeon, Subseed with Jumpluff.

Gliscor - Vaporeon /w Ice Beam

Hippowdon -Ah, now this guy stops sunned up V-create. Vaporeon /w Ice Beam is a solid threat.

Jellicent - Sawsbuck/Horn Leech

Latias -Vaporeon Road/Ice Beam
Mandibuzz -V-create
Murkrow - V-create

Ninetales - Heatran does well against enemy ninetales, being able to toxic it and being immune to fire blast does wonders.

Politoed - How I hate you politoed. Yes I do. If possible, Fusion Bolt predict on Victini to kill it, otherwise ninetales can burn it on switch. Heatran can toxic it on switch. Basically, you need good prediction or it won't goddamn die.

Porygon2 - V-create

Rotom-H - V-create (No I'm not joking)

Rotom-W - Sawsbuck.

Scolipede - V-create

Skarmory - V-create

Snorlax - Toxic into V-create while he rests.

Suicune - Sawsbuck, mind the ice attacks though.

Swampert -Sawsbuck.

Tentacruel - Oh christ, this guy. Tentacruel is probably the biggest wall there is for me at the moment, owing to its ability to get out toxic spikes before it dies very easily against my team. Usually dies to Sawsbuck/Fusion bolt. But still REALLY nasty.

Vaporeon - Fusion Bolt.

Whimsicott - Christ I hate Whimsicott. Ninetales works well, with fireblast at her disposal and it not being a bad attack to be encored. Also Roar.

Xatu - V-create.

Zapdos -V-create (Though it's more of a pain than most)

 

[Natural20]

Bump seeing as it's actually done now.

 

[alphatron]

I should probably stop visiting smogon when I'm supposed to be busy. I keep skimming through posts and threads without getting the chance to sit down and write up detailed stuff.

Anyway, from first glace, I would heavily advise against balloon on Calm defensive heatran. If you're intending to have him switch into draco meteors, then the balloon will break anyway. And defensive pokemon often find themselves switching into attacks. Heatran's balloon won't be kept intact for him to avoid ground attacks. From personal experience, balloon on any kind of defensive heatran only works when using that heatran as a lead.

By the way, your defensive threats section is friggin awesome.

 

[Ignus]

Hi Natural. I think I've actually seen you on PO, and fought you. To me, your team seems very weak to Latios, one of the most common pokemon out there right now, right next to garchomp. Right now, you have Heatran toxic protecting against it. Seeing that most Latios's running around (or floating, rather) will be carrying surf these days, I would suggest a pokemon that can take a surf or HP fire without dying outright. I'm going to have to suggest Bronzong. a dualscreen set will only take 24.3% - 29% from an hp fire under light screen, and even less from surf or thunderbolt. Heres a standard Dual Screen set:

Bronzong @ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
252 HP/152 Atk/8 Def/ 92 SpD/
Relaxed Nature, 0 Spe IVs
Reflect
Light Screen
Gyro Ball
EarthQuake

This also should help you with Trick room teams, who would spoil your plan of controlling offensive momentum through Clorophyll. Hope this helps!

 

[backflip]

Love seeing another Jumpluff enthusiast. Props
I'm going to guess the 68 EV's in Sp.Atk are a typo, as the standard set calls for those in Sp.Def, but just in case I'll let it be known.
Two Personal Preferences: I understand Aromatherapys presence here, but if you ever find yourself without a need for it, fool around with Aeriel Ace (Jolly>Timid) or HP-Flying. It adds so much to his annoyance and has really helped me handle priority abusers who might also cause you a bit of grief (my experience lies more in DW Breloom, but it's also saved my ass from a Conkeldurr or two and one really worn out Scizor, opponents skill pending). Second is I sometimes run Wide Lens for the sole utility of stopping sweeps. It's pretty situational, but too many times I've relied on Sleep Powder to save myself from getting swept and it missed to result in me losing the match. Yet at the same time, Leftovers is just too good, especially when hazards/sand are everywhere.

Also, as long as the Sun stays out, your Heatran only takes 28-33.2% from a standard Timid Specs Latios's Surf, a 4HKO without hazards (Modest does a max of ~36%, still a 3HKO, but both according to a 4th gen calc, so I could be wrong). It requires a little bit of dancing around on your part, but Stealth Rocks + Status/Protect and good Wish Passing should lessen his threat to your team well enough.

And if you can't fit a spinner in, I want to suggest reconsidering Substitute on Ninetails. I don't know how much an issue its been, but I imagine even with Wish Support and Leftovers its going to really limit his sustainability. Perhaps dual status, HP Fighting for more Ttar hate (also forces opposing Heatran to think twice), or Energy Ball to annoy Politoad.

That V-Create is nasty. Nice Team.

 

[Benlisted]

Firstly, Pluff and Vappy are rare on Sun teams, so don't say this team is unoriginal!

Anyway, this team looks pretty excellent tbh, so there's not too much I'll recommend changing. Assuming your SpA on Pluff is really SpD, it looks fine, consider Encore if you have trouble with setup sweepers>Aroma, but Aroma helps you do something as Ferro switches in as well as being excellent utility.

I wouldn't think about a Flying attack on her tbh, as in Sun HP Fire deals with Breloom just as well, and, even better, can 2HKO standard Ferro (see the link in my sig for the spread needed). That's if you fancy playing around with an attack, which probably isn't needed since you can destroy Ferro with Victini and Tran.

I actually really like your Tales set, I'm gonna try something similar on a Vulpix in UU since she's even bigger setup fodder than Tales. Moreover, given my current Sun team being absolutely raped by SubChomp and SubTran (to some extent) I'll probably give it a whirl on my Tales too.

Vappy looks fine, as does Victini.

Sawsbuck I have a few suggestions for. Jump Kick < Nature Power, since it hits TTar, Blissey, and Balloon Tran, and otherwise they have very similar coverage. I'd also advise Double-Edge>Return, primarily because D-E OHKOs Latios after SR whereas Return falls short, and you do have Horn Leech and Wish to heal you back up. In order to be a reliable revenger of Latios I'd advise putting enough speed EVs into him to beat scarfed base 110s/111s, just for the sake of security against the occasional Scarf Latios.

Since you have a much more reliable Latios check in D-E Sawsbuck with more speed, you can afford to make Tran more offensive as opposed to bulky, imo. Surf doesn't hurt even my 48 or so HP Tran much in Sun, so consider using Fire Blast, Earth Power and Dragon Pulse/HP Ice with SR. Toxic stalling isn't that effective when you have Burn and Sleep already going on in your team, so I'd try just going for as much damage as possible with your hits. I second Lefties>Balloon if wanting to switch into Dragon hits.

Overall though good team, good luck with it!

 

[Natural20]

Right to address the points one by one.

Balloon on Heatran. I was considering swapping it out. Then I came upon a game where Ninetales was dead and I was against an enemy excadrill in a sandstorm. Heatran checked the hell out of it and won the match. The value of being able to switch him into earthquakes is pretty high given that everyone has edgequake and a good prediction means that if Jumpluff was my only switch it would die.

Bronzong suffers the same problem that all steel types suffer in that it gets completely wrecked in the sun. The primary reason Heatran is there is flash fire allowing it to switch into boosted fire attacks without fear. Surf honestly doesn't bother me that much. Due to sun, even when super effective it only hits at its normal base power anyway so heatran can usually take the damage no problem. Since every pokemon and their mother pack away a flamethrower or fireblast in secret I'm very reluctant to take on Bronzong.

I basically can't justify not having aromatherapy at the moment. I've had a Jirachi cripple at least three members of my team and have been able to undo all the damage thanks to that. Wide lens is something that I'd dearly like to have, but without leftovers subseed becomes completely inviable. Given that if your opponent has leftovers and you don't, by subseeding you lose 1/4 of your health every turn and they only lose 1/16th.

Seriously going to test HP fighting on Ninetales, I'm finding I don't use substitute a lot on ninetales.

Let's see. Nature Power on Sawsbuck is really quite strong. Blissey isn't really a wall to it because if one does show up it can just SD a few times and Horn Leech away. That said Double Edge is something I might consider, recoil is nasty even with wishpassing though because once Sawsbuck is out and has an SD I don't want to switch him back again.

I may switch up Tran's moveset, I haven't spent too long testing the original one though so we will see.