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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]
- Thread starter bb skarm
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Hogg Jr. demands a recount!
Bronzong with Heal Bell was one of my suggestions. I'll be honest - I don't actually know that it would make Bronzong suddenly A-rank material (although it's already surprisingly good, and that would certainly increase its viability). But come on, why the hell doesn't it get this? It's a giant bell that gets nothing but support moves, and no one thought to give it Heal Bell?
Dark/Fairy Mega-Absol is pretty sweet, I've got to say. Its Speed tier puts it above the new base 110 Megas, and STAB Play Rough to hit fairies would be pretty nice.
I'll post more thoughts on this slate when I get the chance.
Bronzong with Heal Bell was one of my suggestions. I'll be honest - I don't actually know that it would make Bronzong suddenly A-rank material (although it's already surprisingly good, and that would certainly increase its viability). But come on, why the hell doesn't it get this? It's a giant bell that gets nothing but support moves, and no one thought to give it Heal Bell?
Dark/Fairy Mega-Absol is pretty sweet, I've got to say. Its Speed tier puts it above the new base 110 Megas, and STAB Play Rough to hit fairies would be pretty nice.
I'll post more thoughts on this slate when I get the chance.
Does it even matter? It's on the slate now, and I don't even remember denying it once. It may have been someone not on the council, but I have no idea why it even is relevant rn
Im pretty sure Ive seen Dark/Fairy Absol suggested a few times as well. Maybe it wasnt C+ at the time or maybe it just was forgotten (same happened to me before, its not rly a huge deal- also where no guard Rapidash? T_T make pony viable pls gamefreak)
Dark/Fairy Mega Absol would be immune to the STAB attacks of the Lati Twins and has pursuit to catch them after a switch-in assuming they are running dual STAB, roost, defog or something along these lines. It could also bounce back Memento from Latios trying to keep momentum or something (which is good too), although there are moves that they could replace from their standard movepool to be less fodder, that would hurt their ability to defog.
Honestly defensively it does a good job for Absol since switching in on immunities is the only way its not taking a big chunk of hp.
King's Shield Slowking was my idea so I will try and say some stuff about it later but I think its pretty self explanatory. King's Shield scares off physical attackers, while also having access to Nasty Plot if they attempt to boost during King's Shield turns. Scald is also scary for physical attackers so Slowking now can play around physical pokemon very well, as well as already doing very well as a special wall. As a psychic type, being able to King's Shield Pursuit and Knock Off are both very nice.
One of the main reasons I suggested it was because I kinda wanted to see a discussion of Kings Shield on a pokemon that wasnt aegislash.. Slowking doesnt have access to 150 all-round stats, perfect coverage, and doesnt have the typing to end all typings (although his stats and typing are still decent), I wonder if he can still be enough of a threat to cause these 50/50 situations with physical attackers.
PLUS SLOWKING IS THE ORIGINAL KING SO OFC HE SHOULD GET KINGS SHIELD (fu nidoking and seaking)
Dark/Fairy Mega Absol would be immune to the STAB attacks of the Lati Twins and has pursuit to catch them after a switch-in assuming they are running dual STAB, roost, defog or something along these lines. It could also bounce back Memento from Latios trying to keep momentum or something (which is good too), although there are moves that they could replace from their standard movepool to be less fodder, that would hurt their ability to defog.
Honestly defensively it does a good job for Absol since switching in on immunities is the only way its not taking a big chunk of hp.
King's Shield Slowking was my idea so I will try and say some stuff about it later but I think its pretty self explanatory. King's Shield scares off physical attackers, while also having access to Nasty Plot if they attempt to boost during King's Shield turns. Scald is also scary for physical attackers so Slowking now can play around physical pokemon very well, as well as already doing very well as a special wall. As a psychic type, being able to King's Shield Pursuit and Knock Off are both very nice.
One of the main reasons I suggested it was because I kinda wanted to see a discussion of Kings Shield on a pokemon that wasnt aegislash.. Slowking doesnt have access to 150 all-round stats, perfect coverage, and doesnt have the typing to end all typings (although his stats and typing are still decent), I wonder if he can still be enough of a threat to cause these 50/50 situations with physical attackers.
PLUS SLOWKING IS THE ORIGINAL KING SO OFC HE SHOULD GET KINGS SHIELD (fu nidoking and seaking)
godfuck the one time my suggestion's accepted and it's the one I put to the side and now everything else on the slate I adore so much
everyone else wins go home kurona
Anyway Agility was just intended to give Dragalge one more little set; an attempt at sweeping.
Since of course Speed is paramount here; I'll just put forward that (assuming max speed investment for both of these), Modest +2 reaches 374, while Timid +2 reaches 410.
Let's take a look at the relevant speed tiers.
For tl;dr, Modest outspeeds up to 252+ base 120s, being just outsped by 252+ 121s (pidgeot and torn-t). Timid outspeeds up to 252+ 135s (mega man/lop), being just outsped by Scarf Excadrill.
252 Neutral 97 base special attack with Adaptability is still pretty scary offensive prowess.
Except this admittedly was not thought out very well because when I went to find calcs it turns out Dragon Pulse can't even KO Latias.
Um.
Well let's uh see another less bulky
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 273-322 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
this isn't going well
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 359-424 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Please love me
why couldn't my fighting/flying raptor be accepted dammit
everyone else wins go home kurona
Anyway Agility was just intended to give Dragalge one more little set; an attempt at sweeping.
Since of course Speed is paramount here; I'll just put forward that (assuming max speed investment for both of these), Modest +2 reaches 374, while Timid +2 reaches 410.
Let's take a look at the relevant speed tiers.
412 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +1
405 / Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric / 135 / +Spe / 252 / 0
399 / Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
391 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30 IV [Hidden Power Fire]
391 / Gyarados, Mega Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / +1
389 / Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill / 145 / Neutral / 252 / 0
388 / Mega Altaria, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
386 / Talonflame / 126 / +Spe / 252 / 0
383 / Weavile / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
382 / Diggersby / 78 / Neutral / 252 / +1
379 / Noivern / 123 / +Spe / 252 / 0 (not sure if this is a relevant benchmark)
378 / Mega Ampharos / 45 / Neutral / 252 / +2
376 / Gothitelle / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +1
375 / Mega Pidgeot, Tornadus-Therian / 121 / +Spe / 252 / 0
372 / Alakazam, Dugtrio, Sceptile / 120 / +Spe / 252 / 0
405 / Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric / 135 / +Spe / 252 / 0
399 / Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
391 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30 IV [Hidden Power Fire]
391 / Gyarados, Mega Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / +1
389 / Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill / 145 / Neutral / 252 / 0
388 / Mega Altaria, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
386 / Talonflame / 126 / +Spe / 252 / 0
383 / Weavile / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
382 / Diggersby / 78 / Neutral / 252 / +1
379 / Noivern / 123 / +Spe / 252 / 0 (not sure if this is a relevant benchmark)
378 / Mega Ampharos / 45 / Neutral / 252 / +2
376 / Gothitelle / 65 / +Spe / 252 / +1
375 / Mega Pidgeot, Tornadus-Therian / 121 / +Spe / 252 / 0
372 / Alakazam, Dugtrio, Sceptile / 120 / +Spe / 252 / 0
252 Neutral 97 base special attack with Adaptability is still pretty scary offensive prowess.
Except this admittedly was not thought out very well because when I went to find calcs it turns out Dragon Pulse can't even KO Latias.
Um.
Well let's uh see another less bulky
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 273-322 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
this isn't going well
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 359-424 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Please love me
I think you forgot adaptability in those calcs :P
(Usually it says so in the calc, but I could be wrong)
But yeah, agility dragalge seems pretty cool, but forcing yourself to run timid to outspeed a lot of the meta would probably hurt.
For some reason no one truly like rap like i did, or if you were like lmlm, you didnt want to deal with more sleep shenanigans (Dark Void Leipard he thought it coulda been). Did suck, sorta wanted that inferno -_-
And yes, i recall denying that before but apparently when it was sent in for the thousandth time it got in some through majority and all.
Will probably post later i guess but just wanted to talk a bit.
Wait yeah it did.
The calc forgot to put on Adaptability... despite me... selecting RU Choice Specs...
...
Anyway
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 395-468 (100.2 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 317-374 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
THERE WE GO, those look much better.
eh nvm. dropping this, not worth the argument. I'll talk to the council member who I gave the idea to.
Slowking + King's Shield: Seems pretty cool, although it's probably not going to get my vote just for personal bias and how amazing Dragalge is. I mean, Nasty Plot + Lowered Attack + Awesome Special Bulk would be really cool, but I like the Assault Vest set the best, and I can't do that with King's Shield. Hey, at least it makes sense.
Dragalge + Agility: Prepare for the literal rape. Basically, all you have to do with Dragalge is, don't let it get an Agility up, run Chansey on every team and have all of your Deoxys-Speed Scarfed! No big deal, right? Seriously, having that amazing Special Attack with a Speed tier that rivals Sand Rush Excadrill borders on being unbelievably broken.
Mega Absol as a Dark / Fairy: No comment
Bronzong + Heal Bell: Idk, this doesn't really solve any of its problems. I mean, it's cool, but Clefable exists, and it's probably a better SRer and Aromatherapy user since it's not so passive and doesn't have to rely on Gyro Ball.
Slowking + King's Shield: Seems pretty cool, although it's probably not going to get my vote just for personal bias and how amazing Dragalge is. I mean, Nasty Plot + Lowered Attack + Awesome Special Bulk would be really cool, but I like the Assault Vest set the best, and I can't do that with King's Shield. Hey, at least it makes sense.
Dragalge + Agility: Prepare for the literal rape. Basically, all you have to do with Dragalge is, don't let it get an Agility up, run Chansey on every team and have all of your Deoxys-Speed Scarfed! No big deal, right? Seriously, having that amazing Special Attack with a Speed tier that rivals Sand Rush Excadrill borders on being unbelievably broken.
Mega Absol as a Dark / Fairy: No comment
Bronzong + Heal Bell: Idk, this doesn't really solve any of its problems. I mean, it's cool, but Clefable exists, and it's probably a better SRer and Aromatherapy user since it's not so passive and doesn't have to rely on Gyro Ball.
I knew following you would give me some benefits.
Anyway, while Dragalge obviously loses out on a hell of a lot of power without Modest or Specs, the beauty of Agility is that not only are you able to outspeed a ton of threats up to fucking Lopunny now, but the usual problem Dragalge had of Steels and Fairies coming into wall it is mitigated because it can freely switch between moves due to not being choiced. Agility gives it that little boost to make an un-choiced Dragalge viable.
I've done a few more calcs since my lovely boltsandbombers alerted me that stupid damage calculator thought RU Specs didn't run Adaptability and found some relatively satisfying results.
Agility lets it outrun and KO some threats it'd usually have a lot of trouble with; usually either getting KO'd or taking heavy damage while taking them down with the Specs set:-
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Mega Altaria: 354-416 (100 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Mega Charizard X: 354-416 (98.6 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 343-406 (123.8 - 146.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 452-536 (107.6 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 432-510 (106.6 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 432-510 (132.9 - 156.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 354-416 (90.3 - 106.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 395-468 (122.2 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming prior damage so Multiscale is gone; otherwise DP does 61.3 - 72.4%)
And is also able to take out some faster threats in general.
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 289-341 (106.6 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 265-315 (94.3 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Pinsir: 239-283 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 250-296 (96.5 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
As for priority...
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 106-126 (39.1 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 211-250 (77.8 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 75-88 (27.6 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 75-88 (27.6 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 160-189 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (what the actual fuck)
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Uh, Dragalge's speed stat is only 44. Assuming it will run a +SpA nature like most Agility sweepers, it will only reach 374 speed, which isn't too fast. Even if it runs Timid (big loss of power there) it only hits 408, which is still way below Landorus-T and some other common Scarfers. Exca's base speed tier is like twice as much. AgiliDrag is basically AgiliAmphy 2.0 on steroids.
In other news, I love Dark / Fairy Mega Absol because of the STAB coverage, and Knock Off and Play Rough just became legal as well. Still doesn't fix the bulky Fairy issue, but helps a lot against Fighting types (Conk's Mach Punch 2HKOs iirc).
Heal Bell on Bronzong is interesting, and I feel it is undervalued atm. It's got the typing and bulk to check a bunch of threats, can run Def or SDef sets, and I feel like something like Heal Bell would give it more love. Although I'm probably thinking of my RU team more when I'm talking about this.
I hate King's Shield. Screw trying to predict if you are going to use it or attack.
oh yeah one more thing
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 463-546 (159.1 - 187.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 214-254 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 603-712 (197 - 232.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Dragalge = 410
+1 252+ Tyrantrum = 397
Dragalge is the hidden ability hype king
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 463-546 (159.1 - 187.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 214-254 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 603-712 (197 - 232.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Dragalge = 410
+1 252+ Tyrantrum = 397
Dragalge is the hidden ability hype king
I dont really feel like Agility is the thing giving Dragalge the new ability to deal with steel or fairies, that's just item choice- and agility doesn't give it anything extra to break through the steel pokemon that bother it, as well as still having the problem of very middling damage coverage moves which means Steel types (especially steel/psychic) can switch into many or all of its moves without much worry of 2hko at all. Also to sweep, Dragalge has to give up its most attractive feature that pushed it into any spotlight at all, adaptability Draco Meteor (the difference between the 170 BP of Dragon Pulse and 260 BP of Draco Meteor is a pretty huge difference of 90..). I still really like the pokemon and the option to agility I just dont think it would change the metagame at all even though it could push Dragalge up due to having a bit more versatility. As a sweeper, it also gets ohkod by CB talon which hurts its viability, although resisting mach punch and aqua jet works in its favour. I feel this is somewhere at a similar/slightly high viability as Agility M-Ampharos, but being a dragon sweeper that easily eats Clefable alive is not to be undervalued
Ok, so Dark/Fairy Mega Absol was my submission (although I won't claim it was my idea, since apparently some people people have suggested it before me).
Absol suddenly becomes an amazing Lati@s check, as it can switch into a Defog or STAB move freely, and can OHKO with Knock Off or Play Rough. He can also Pursuit Trap if you predict the switch. Unfortunately, if Latios isn't Scarfed, it can Memento bounce Absol and force it to kill itself.
252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 422-500 (139.7 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Absol can also kill Mega Sableye really easily - Dark Pulse is a possible 9HKO, and Shadow Ball is a 5HKO. Absol has a chance to OHKO or a guaranteed 2HKO on pretty much any Sableye except, like 252/252+ variants. For example:
252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Sableye: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Will-o-Wisp is bounced back by Magic Bounce, and Calm Mind is just generating opportunities for Absol to kill you.
And Dark-types and Dragon-types provide really safe switch-ins except Bisharp, being a 4x resist and an immunity respectively. STAB Play Rough hits stuff much harder, too. Overall, this is a very good improvement.
On the other ones:
King's Shield Slowking seems really good at discouraging physical attackers, and would probably get my second place vote.
Heal Bell Bronzong does not save it in any way.
Agility Dragalge seems excellent, as it can Agility on a switch and suddenly outspeed so much stuff, but I think it really likes having those four movesets for attacks. Good but not amazing.
Absol suddenly becomes an amazing Lati@s check, as it can switch into a Defog or STAB move freely, and can OHKO with Knock Off or Play Rough. He can also Pursuit Trap if you predict the switch. Unfortunately, if Latios isn't Scarfed, it can Memento bounce Absol and force it to kill itself.
252 Atk Mega Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 422-500 (139.7 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Absol can also kill Mega Sableye really easily - Dark Pulse is a possible 9HKO, and Shadow Ball is a 5HKO. Absol has a chance to OHKO or a guaranteed 2HKO on pretty much any Sableye except, like 252/252+ variants. For example:
252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Sableye: 246-290 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Will-o-Wisp is bounced back by Magic Bounce, and Calm Mind is just generating opportunities for Absol to kill you.
And Dark-types and Dragon-types provide really safe switch-ins except Bisharp, being a 4x resist and an immunity respectively. STAB Play Rough hits stuff much harder, too. Overall, this is a very good improvement.
On the other ones:
King's Shield Slowking seems really good at discouraging physical attackers, and would probably get my second place vote.
Heal Bell Bronzong does not save it in any way.
Agility Dragalge seems excellent, as it can Agility on a switch and suddenly outspeed so much stuff, but I think it really likes having those four movesets for attacks. Good but not amazing.
Slowking + King's Shield
This would really benefit Slowking, allowing it to check lots of physical attackers like Mega Gallade. It's physical bulk is quite lacking compared to Slowbro, and King's Shield really helps with this. This could give Slowking a huge niche since it's pretty much a better Slowbro, it just requires a bit more prediction when using King's Shield. Definitely voting for this one :]
Absol With Fairy/Dark typing
Literally counters the Lati twins (immune to psyshock and draco), and get's STAB Play Rough. Also fixes it's Fighting weakness. However, it's still walled by stuff like Clefable and Skarmory (without Fire Blast).
Bronzong + Heal Bell
This is a good addition flavor-wise, since Bronzong is a bell lol. However, as a cleric, I would almost always use Chansey since it has a lot more bulk, can pass bigger wishes, also gets Heal Bell, SR, and status moves like T wave and Toxic.
Dragalge + Agility
Dragalge is still kinda slower even after an agility, outsped by common scarfers like Lando-T and Garchomp. However, it's damage output is really scary and can turn it into a good late game sweeper after everything faster than it has been weakened a bit. Tbh, I'd probably use RP Lando over this, since it's a lot faster and is an effective wallbreaker. Dragalage can't hold a Choice Specs, and it can't use Draco Meteor since it lowers it's special attack.
This would really benefit Slowking, allowing it to check lots of physical attackers like Mega Gallade. It's physical bulk is quite lacking compared to Slowbro, and King's Shield really helps with this. This could give Slowking a huge niche since it's pretty much a better Slowbro, it just requires a bit more prediction when using King's Shield. Definitely voting for this one :]
Absol With Fairy/Dark typing
Literally counters the Lati twins (immune to psyshock and draco), and get's STAB Play Rough. Also fixes it's Fighting weakness. However, it's still walled by stuff like Clefable and Skarmory (without Fire Blast).
Bronzong + Heal Bell
This is a good addition flavor-wise, since Bronzong is a bell lol. However, as a cleric, I would almost always use Chansey since it has a lot more bulk, can pass bigger wishes, also gets Heal Bell, SR, and status moves like T wave and Toxic.
Dragalge + Agility
Dragalge is still kinda slower even after an agility, outsped by common scarfers like Lando-T and Garchomp. However, it's damage output is really scary and can turn it into a good late game sweeper after everything faster than it has been weakened a bit. Tbh, I'd probably use RP Lando over this, since it's a lot faster and is an effective wallbreaker. Dragalage can't hold a Choice Specs, and it can't use Draco Meteor since it lowers it's special attack.
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Absol: 129-152 (47.6 - 56%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
Knock Off OHKOs back, so it still counters if it's Mega'd beforehand. Even then, Sucker Punch is a thing.
Was only pointing out it's not a counter!
It... kind of is. It's not OHKOed on the switch and
252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 350-414 (117 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 320-378 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Rather be a strong check. Absol can't switch in, but neither can Lati@s. I wouldn't say those calcs proves it's a counter, rather a strong check. Possibly the strongest check to Lati@s.
If Absol gets a Fairy type, it would be classified as an absolute counter once it Mega Evolves. I wouldn't say it's a counter before it Mega Evolves, but whatever. Becides, who would use HP Fire on an Absol? Your points aren't really proving anything either.
Mega Absol + Fairy Typing
I feel like this one is under-appreciated. Agility dragalge is nice, but sorta slow even after a boost. Mega Absol is fast atfer mega evolving, and its ability isnt shabby as well. Fairy STAB is so good, and M Absol doesnt even need to worry about Steel types because Fire Blast takes care of all them bar Heatran. Mega Absol can make for a decent stallbreaker, as it sets up on Mega Sableye, and its speed tier + access to Sucker Punch makes it great against offense. And completely countering the latis is really cool.
I feel like this one is under-appreciated. Agility dragalge is nice, but sorta slow even after a boost. Mega Absol is fast atfer mega evolving, and its ability isnt shabby as well. Fairy STAB is so good, and M Absol doesnt even need to worry about Steel types because Fire Blast takes care of all them bar Heatran. Mega Absol can make for a decent stallbreaker, as it sets up on Mega Sableye, and its speed tier + access to Sucker Punch makes it great against offense. And completely countering the latis is really cool.
lmao
The definition of a counter is that it can switch in on any given move and force out that pokemon, mega absol is a perfect example of this.
HP Fire only 2HKOes and Knock Off OHKOes back. Absol can switch in on HP Fire, Draco, and Psyshock, and force out Latios with Knock Off.
Therefore, it is a counter.
And besides, who the hell would stay in with Latios to use HP fire on an absol... Anyone with common sense would just switch out their Latios, so absol wins 1v1 too.
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