Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Ladder's finally up! Looking for a battle now.

Guys guys GUYS!!!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-outheorymons-1921
EDIT: Just gonna add replays so you can see more stuff…
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-outheorymons-1925

The ladder is UP!

Play. Play until you laugh. Play until you cry. Play until your eyes fall out! Plaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy. Oh, and I'm #1 on the ladder. Retiring now. xoxobye.

(Here's the link to the mod. blarrrrrrrrhghghghghghg )

And being #1 on the ladder's cute. Let me know when you're #1 in the Hall of Fame

Is there even going to be a Hall of Fame for this? There should be.

Anyway, I'm having trouble with this slate. With that speed, Camerupt will only be really viable under trick room, and the problem is that there aren't hugely viable setters, not spotty coverage. Prob and Regi would probably be doing similar things for me: walling sweepers long enough to T Wave or maybe set up rocks, but they're bot pretty much dead weight if you don't have a way to keep rocks on and the other team lacks a win con that they effectively counter (IE, not a set up sweeper for Regi or has a SE move on Prob). Audino's most interesting so far, but Pika Pal summed up why someone would be iffy to use it. Clefable not being a mega alone makes me wonder if I'd ever actually use it.

 

[Froggyboy]

Mega Altaria what? Bronzong cleanly 2HKOs it after it Dragon Dances, Probopass takes a high roll on Flash Cannon to even break its sub? Probopass walls it better? Probopass will easily let Altaria get to +6 while Bronzong would just beat it outright. As for Diggersby, only 22% of them (i.e. most likely the scarf ones) ever run Knock Off. Yes Lando-T runs KOff but Scarfed ones run Superpower too, and defensive sets prefer Stone Edge over KOff, so we can't exactly say Probo walls Lando-T better. Lol who uses Mega Pidgeot? Even so, Probopass fails to deal more than 40% to Pidgeot so it can always Roost back up. Bronzong can cleanly 2HKO it before it gets 3HKOed by Heat Wave. Yes Bronzong can't take as many hits from Beedril than Probopass, but it can still take 2 hits from it, and OHKO in return. Who uses Mega Garchomp? On the other hand, anything that can sub totally shits on Probopass and can easily sweep your team. I rather have Landorus-T KO my Bronzong than having Mega Latias/Altaria, setting up all over Probopass and sweeping my team.

tldr; They largely check the same stuff, but stuff that Probopass checks but not Bronzong would kill Bronzong at best; stuff that Bronzong checks but not Probopass could potentially kill your team.

First off, you can't say OU viable Pokemon are 'not-used' so they don't count. Mega Pidgeot is used a lot actually, just a bit lackluster, Mega Garchomp is meh, but still used.

And where are you getting the ideas that Probopass is so weak?
8 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 168-198 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 62 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 134-158 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
What calcs did you read?
So with that, Mega-Altaria doesn't really set up all over Probopass, heck, even if it did..
+6 192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 292-344 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+6 192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 355-418 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
M-Altaria has a less than half chance to OHKO Probopass at +6, while there's no chance of not OHKOing Bronzong at +6.

May you please link me to the Diggersby move statistics? Because you seem to get your info from just what you want to hear.

Mega Pidgeot has a chance to 2HKO Bronzong with Heat Wave, so not your most reliable counter..

Scarf Lando-T with Superpower is on the decline, while Knock Off, at least in my experience, is on the rise.

Mega Beedrill kills Bronzong with two Knock-Offs, while Probopass takes like 5.

And Mega Latias also sets up on Bronzong?

tldr; Do some actual research instead of pulling random calculations out of your ass.

 

[Askeia]

First off, you can't say OU viable Pokemon are 'not-used' so they don't count. Mega Pidgeot is used a lot actually, just a bit lackluster, Mega Garchomp is meh, but still used.

And where are you getting the ideas that Probopass is so weak?
8 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 168-198 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 62 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 134-158 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
What calcs did you read?
So with that, Mega-Altaria doesn't really set up all over Probopass, heck, even if it did..
+6 192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 292-344 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+6 192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 355-418 (105 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
M-Altaria has a less than half chance to OHKO Probopass at +6, while there's no chance of not OHKOing Bronzong at +6.

May you please link me to the Diggersby move statistics? Because you seem to get your info from just what you want to hear.

Mega Pidgeot has a chance to 2HKO Bronzong with Heat Wave, so not your most reliable counter..

Scarf Lando-T with Superpower is on the decline, while Knock Off, at least in my experience, is on the rise.

Mega Beedrill kills Bronzong with two Knock-Offs, while Probopass takes like 5.

And Mega Latias also sets up on Bronzong?

tldr; Do some actual research instead of pulling random calculations out of your ass.

Forgot to set Altaria to Fairy type when calculating Flash cannon. In that case, Bronzong would have OHKOed instead of 2HKO in where I mentioned
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Altaria (+1 Spe): 270-320 (87.9 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

If we take a more defensive DD variant for comparison, the only way Probopass could prevent Altaria from setting up is from SDef drops from Flash Cannon. Yes Altaria cannot OHKO Probopass, but we are talking about killing something with no reliable recovery so a 2HKO on Probopass is more than sufficient:
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Altaria (+2 Spe): 218-258 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 134-158 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

usage stats for Diggersby and more from that thread
Mega Pidgeot cannot 2HKO Bronzong because Leftovers. Pidgeot can totally stall out Probo because Roost removes the Power Gem weakness, whereas even with the 8 PP of Gyro Ball, it is sufficient to KO a Pidgeot spamming Roost. (btw Pidgeot has 0.75004% usage according to source, which is below shit like Registeel)
For Beedril, if you are ever switching anything slower into it, chances are it will U-turn out. Bronzong and Probopass both has slim chances of beating it in that sense so.
Bronzong can break Meta Latias Sub consistently with Gyro Ball, and eventually get a Toxic in.

Most importantly, whether or not Bronzong totally outclasses Probopass or not, Levitate Probopass is not providing us with anything new which we don't already have. (and honestly the only type of teams which should every have problem with defensive KOff Lando-T should be offensive teams where Probo won't fit)(defensive teams can use defensive megas to deal with bulky KOff Lando-T)

 

[Froggyboy]

If we take a more defensive DD variant for comparison, the only way Probopass could prevent Altaria from setting up is from SDef drops from Flash Cannon. Yes Altaria cannot OHKO Probopass, but we are talking about killing something with no reliable recovery so a 2HKO on Probopass is more than sufficient:
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Altaria (+2 Spe): 218-258 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 134-158 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Bronzong also has no reliable recovery? So it gets wittled down faster than Probopass, since it has less bulk.

Mega Pidgeot cannot 2HKO Bronzong because Leftovers. Pidgeot can totally stall out Probo because Roost removes the Power Gem weakness, whereas even with the 8 PP of Gyro Ball, it is sufficient to KO a Pidgeot spamming Roost. (btw Pidgeot has 0.75004% usage according to source, which is below shit like Registeel)

252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 152-180 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery <- Chance to 2HKO with Lefties.

8 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 84-99 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 64.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock <- I don't see that as stalling it out.

And Mega Pidgeot is still ranked, so the way I see it, it should be considered as a threat.

For Beedril, if you are ever switching anything slower into it, chances are it will U-turn out. Bronzong and Probopass both has slim chances of beating it in that sense so.

I am pretty sure if a Beedrill with Knock Off can take out a slower Pokemon like Bronzong, it will. It depends on the player I guess.

Bronzong can break Meta Latias Sub consistently with Gyro Ball, and eventually get a Toxic in.

4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (101 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Mega Latias: 72-85 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Mega Latias sets up on Bronzong.

(and honestly the only type of teams which should every have problem with defensive KOff Lando-T should be offensive teams where Probo won't fit)(defensive teams can use defensive megas to deal with bulky KOff Lando-T)

I was saying Scarf Landorus, not bulky or defensive Landorus.

 

[Askeia]

Bronzong also has no reliable recovery? So it gets wittled down faster than Probopass, since it has less bulk.


252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 152-180 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery <- Chance to 2HKO with Lefties.

8 SpA Probopass Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 84-99 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 64.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock <- I don't see that as stalling it out.

And Mega Pidgeot is still ranked, so the way I see it, it should be considered as a threat.


I am pretty sure if a Beedrill with Knock Off can take out a slower Pokemon like Bronzong, it will. It depends on the player I guess.


4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (101 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Mega Latias: 72-85 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Mega Latias sets up on Bronzong.


I was saying Scarf Landorus, not bulky or defensive Landorus.

bronzong only has to take a single hit from Alta. Probo has to take 2-3 hits, hence probo gets worn more by Alta. On beedril, sure certainly it beats bronzong, and probo can come in better, but it does not shut down beedril because it still does it's job, which is to spam u turn while knocking off items, and probo will get worn down, so itstill isnt a good answer to beedril.

Pidgeot has a chance to 2hko bronzong certainly, but the reason to ever use pidgeot over tornadus would be for defog, so having stealth rocks damage on bronzong is unrealistic. As for probopaas, it cannot 2hko pidgeot in any way so long as pidgeot uses roost every other turn, so it can use heat wave every 2 turns, hence beating probopass.

While that spread of latias is indeed the one on analysis, usage stats show that 248/100/160 is still a more popular spread, and said spread cannot set up on bronzong

Overall, what probopass brings us is just a better switch in to overly specific stuff like knock off scarf landoT and beedril, other than minor things like pidgeot and stuff. Will the implementation of probopass actually make a difference? Seems rather unlikely.

Above all, said probopass and bronzong would fit best in stall or semi stall, where stuff like gardevoir, landorus-i and stuff are more relevant threats than stuff like beedril, landorus-t, pidgeot, hence bronzong outclasses probopass in its supposed role.

 

[skies]

Could we please stop the bickering of Probopass versus Bronzong?

 

[Salemance]

So in an effort to side step something of me not really wanting to oice my opinions on this slate YET, heres a fun little battle I was messing round with (had to use custom on main since ladder was down -_-): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-198724975

Sorta bugs me I couldn't use Weezing as a Poison/Steel type like I had wished, but it is what it is. So far ARcehops, in all its suicidal tendencies is demanding of priority and dear lord I love Parting Shot Absol more than I thought I would. Molt will be a fun use in the meta be it lefties or LO sets like the one I fought against, but Mega Steelix....It didn't really get the opportunity to do much so it still requires that safe switchin like expected so I don't quite have an opinion on it. Goodra is also an interesting dilemma as frankly I am stuck in the predicament of what type I wish it to have the capability of becoming, so its odd to fit it on a team as it can be what you need it to so I think it should be considered near the last of it. Course this will be easier to do once its not just me slapping mons on a team, but you get the point

I want to use my Weezing tho to stop the Head Smash spamming ;-;


Anyway besides that short squibble, I love that its actually a not primarily OU centric slate for once (we needed more of these) and I'd love to do Mega Audino just for the fact it could be an ice CM Sweeper....but hell its still not doing much I think. Could be worse, but not so much so. Still torn on em cause I don't like Probopass much as with the onslaught of fighting type attacks given to us with the meta shift I guess it be a nice partner with Mega Sable as it helps eliminate some fairies but is it strong enough to do that reliable? That Power Gem calc looked very disappointing on a Pidgeot for christs sake. It doesn't stop ground's all that well as Mamo can just either go back to its old bag of tricks and super power it, Hippo could just ignore it (not really stopping it from setting rocks or healing is it?) and Lando has been stated already as said (U-turn or Superpower). Just hard to call.

Registeel I don't think it will be utilized as well as it needs to as while steel is nice, its weak to common attacks and if you can three hit ko it and are faster than regi, than you win so I don't know if this will help much.

 

[skies]

Where can i post suggestions for the next slate?

If it is here then here we go:

Option 1: Lucario+Scrappy OR Lucario+Meteor Mash

Option 2: Scizor+Sticky Web OR Scizor+Earthquake

Option 3: Flygon+ddance/swords dance OR flygon+stealth rocks.

Option 4: Porygon line+sheer force

Option 5: Aerodactyl+head smash

Option 6: Suicune+Unaware

Option 7: Farfech'd+Huge Power OR Farfech'd+Sniper

I will explain these in-depth if this is where we should post suggestions for the next slate.

PM me, Salamance, Vertex, Sun King, Valmanway, or Mysteria.

 

[Salemance]

Or vertex

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I was wondering, should I PM with suggestions or should I suggest here?

Kyurem-Black + Volt switch
Do I need to explain this? With Volt switch it will fit better on a volt turn team as it packs good bulk but few resistances. It's also half Zekrom so.

 

[Kurona]

I was wondering, should I PM with suggestions or should I suggest here?

Kyurem-Black + Volt switch
Do I need to explain this? With Volt switch it will fit better on a volt turn team as it packs good bulk but few resistances. It's also half Zekrom so.

you PM the members of staff here. Also you can't suggest a buff to anything B- or higher.

 

[Salemance]

Forgive me, but hadnt we just answered that above?

Anyway, what exactly would Registeel provide as an unaware user over Clefable or even Quagsire? I dont see it walling many prominent set up sweepers as effectively due to It not being such a sure stop and not really being a big stop on stuff outside of stall as its almost to passive for its own good.

Audino is in a similar predicament since no matter what it must compete with Clefable and it begs the question, does its sheer bulk allow it to outwin it as a CM sweper and is that enough to set it apart? At the moment i really dont.

Then Probopass is let down by being just having a bunch of low stats outside of defenses, that question its capabilities. I think it coupd be fine as it wasnt gonna get much out of magnet pull with Magnezone in the tier so its a good nough niche.

Than sadly we get my dear Camerupt...just being able to get past some mons easier isnt helping its already present issues of being outclassed by Char Y in general, slower than the walls it wishes to break and frankly i just dont see this propelling it up the ranks up like we would like.


This slate isnt a revolutionary one which is fine. This one is more of a, alright buffs to mons that can become viable alternatives to utilize. Is what it is so lets take it in with what it is so aint nothing to worry bout.

 

[Salemance]

Alright everybody, its time for that deciding factor of the day, the one we all await for patiently as each theorymoning day passes....the time to vote!

The procedure is as follows, bold your vote to ensure that it is counted correctly. The candidates as you know of this go around is:

Mega Camerupt + Energy Ball (courtesy of Recreant)

Unaware Registeel (courtesy of someone)

Levitating Probop(courtesy of Isa Simple)

And Simple Mega Audino(courtesy of Dilasc)



Have a joyious voting yall! Remember, not voting is a sign of anarchy!

 

[pretty little liAr]

Simple Mega Audino

 

[Sun King]

Probopass + Levitate

 

[Celticpride]

Mega Camerupt + Energy Ball
I can get behind anything that even has a possibility to lead to less Washing Machines

 

[bb skarm]

i never vote even though i own this thread...should fix that huh?

Simple Mega Audino

 

[Master B8s]

Simple + mega audino

 

[Salemance]

God i really dont feel like voting at all here...

Unaware Registeel

Cause no care for my vote really. Sorry steel

 

[Kurona]

Simple Mega Audino. It's not good but it's the best of four evils.

 

[Karxrida]

Simple Mega Audino

Because why not?

 

[Sun King]

Seriously we could do so much better with Audino. Don't blow your load on an OU unviable mon.

 

[Yayz]

Unaware Registeel

Because none of the others really stand out to me.

 

[Salemance]

Seriously we could do so much better with Audino. Don't blow your load on an OU unviable mon.

Ya like take the fairy the normal typing away...

Either or just let the votes be. It is the lesser of all four and it can be slated again bud, not like its limited to only winning once.

 

[Sun King]

Ya like take the fairy the normal typing away...

Either or just let the votes be. It is the lesser of all four and it can be slated again bud, not like its limited to only winning once.

I was very much under the impression that we do not re-slate anything. I'm pretty sure it's been said before.