Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Psicodelico]

I don't like this slate very much :\ three of the mons are outclassed by OU/UU mons imo.

Floatzel is just like azumarill but with less bulk and i think is pretty much necesary to be bulky to be a bellydrumer. It will have troubles setting up to +6 vs offensive teams maybe it can be cool against more deffensive teams cause it has more opportunities to set up but every team runs at least 2 water resists so it can be easy to take a hit and revenge kill. Then it can be a bdpass set but has a batonpasser celebi does the work slower but more efficiently imo as it can support both atq and spatq +bulkier +better support movepool.

DD M-Glalie is like mega altaria but with worst typing not much to say...

Water steel Carracosta if is offensive shellsmash as said before cloyster is better. But maybe it has its niche as an Empoleon "clone" it lacks defog but it can take better superefective moves with solid rock and is more physically oriented instead of the specially oriented Empoleon. I will maybe vote for this.

Dark Aura Spiritomb looks interesting been a more offensive sableye but with all the fairies in OU, the poor speed and the mediocre bulk... I don't see it working in OU maybe in UU...

Is late and i'm tired so i didn't think much about it maybe in the near future I think a little more about them but either way a poor slate imo (Where is my prankster Gourgeist!!)

 

[Clone]

Still pretty sick at the moment, but I'm going to say how fantastic Steel / Water Carracosta is. It may loose STAB on Stone Edge, but in return, it gains not only a fantastic defensive typing, but STAB Iron Head and a great way to deal with Fairy types. This typing resists a lot of common attacking types, such as Flying, Rock, and so on, not to mention it has Solid Rock, giving it plenty of free opportunities to come in and Shell Smash. It is really slow for a sweeper, but a fantastic 133 base Defense means most physical attackers won't leave a dent. Some of these calcs at +2 are pretty terrifying too.

calcs

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 367-434 (104.2 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 289-343 (73.3 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 187-220 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 203-239 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Celebi: 259-305 (64.1 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 434-512 (107.4 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 270-320 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 335-395 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Belly Drum Floatzel is pretty neat as well, being able to Baton Pass a Belly Drum into things such as Talonflame, M-Altaria, M-Metagross, like holy crap, I'm not going to lie, that's flat out terrifying. Not to mention, Floatzel on its own is nice since its Ability means it can't get Burned, unlike Azumarill. It also has a pretty nice Speed tier, which is nice for a sweeper.

After seeing some of the calcs for Dark Aura Spritomb, having Foul Play boosted by that means no physical attacker is going to get away unscathed. It OHKOs Excadrill, Mega Charizard X after Rocks, Mega Metagross, and Talonflame, while cleanly 2HKOing defensive Mega Scizor, Bisharp and Latias. Not to mention that it also boosts Dark Pulse, meaning Spritomb can run a pretty neat Nasty Plot / Calm Mind set similarly to Mega Sableye. Its typing is also fantastic, being weak to only Fairy types, giving it a pretty solid niche over other Nasty Plot users such as Thundurus.

Fuck Glalie.

Carracosta needs a jolly nature to be relevant after a shell smash js

---

Been lurking a bit but haven't rly posted much buck of a lack of interest in the slates (DD Garchomp when). That being said tho I thought I'd give my opinions on this one because why the fuck not. Or at least, Floatzel because that's the best one here imo.

Imo this thing would actually be pretty good because it has a much better speed tier (outspeeds Latis!!!) and unlike Azumarill, it doesn't have to rely on jet to sweep, which actually helps vs certain things. It also has ice punch to deal more damage to Venusaur which prevents it from countering (PhysDef is 2HKOed by +6 ice punch). My main gripe with this, tho, is what is it setting up on? The only real thing that comes to mind is defensive Heatran due to. A burn immunity, but other than that, floatzels shit bulk isn't gonna be doing it very many favors. Also it's BP set, while, interesting, is gonna have trouble getting off a smash as well as a BP because the recipient is gonna have to have some sort of bulk because otherwise it'll be revenge killed due to not having a speed boost. The whole premise seems interesting, but I have my doubts on the practicality of this. If smash passing, a much better strategy imo, is fairly mediocre, how is this gonna Be better?

 

[ShatteredSummers]

I think that the Drum/Pass Floatzel set can be passed in favor of Belly Drum + 3 Attacks Floatzel. DrumPass like people have already said doesn't seem like the better said.

 

[Red Cat]

I think Belly Drum + Baton Pass on Floatzel could be viable to be honest. Right now, Smeargle is the only Pokemon that gets the combination, but Smeargle is well... Smeargle. Floatzel has better bulk and speed which is significant. I know Floatzel's bulk sucks, but you may be able to get around that with Dual Screens or Memento support. Here is a possible Baton Passing set:

Floatzel @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Baton Pass
- Aqua Jet
- Taunt / Agility

Aqua Jet is to prevent attempts from Adamant Talonflame and Scarf Landorus-T to stop Floatzel from Baton Passing, Taunt is to stop phazing attempts, Agility can be used to pass speed to the recipient which makes it even more dangerous.

Here are a couple of possible recipients:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Agility

Dragonite is a good recipient because of Multiscale allowing it to tank a hit. Lum Berry is there is prevent it from getting statused. Extreme Speed kills most offensive threats at +6. Dragon Claw is for STAB, Earthquake to beat Heatran, Mega Metagross (if Dragonite gets a speed boost from Agility either from Floatzel or itself), and Mega Diance (if Dragonite has a speed boost or Mega Diance hasn't mega evolved yet). Fire Punch beats Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and defensive Mega Scizor. Agility gives Dragonite a speed boost to be able to better take on Mega Metagross, Mega Diance, ScarfTar, and other fast threats which resist Extreme Speed.

Arcanine @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Flame Charge / Iron Head

Intimidate helps Arcanine come in on physical attackers. Once again, +6 Extreme Speed kills most offensive threats. Flare Blitz is for raw power, Close Combat is for TTar, Heatran, and Rotom-W, Flame Charge gives Arcanine a useful speed boost and doesn't cause recoil which is nice for using against Ferrothorn etc. Iron Head is a good option for beating Unaware Clefable though since you can fish for flinches and stall out Moonlight. Lefties help Arcanine survive longer with Flare Blitz, but Lum Berry can protect Arcanine from Toxic and paralysis.

I'll try to think of other good recipients if I can, but I think this shows that it can be possible to build a team around BD Floatzel.

 

[Isa Simple]

Not sure if this has been picked up yet, but Dark Aura boosts the Dark type moves of your opponent as well. Being neutral to dark this means that Spiritomb gains a pseudo weakness to Dark type move.
Which kinda sucks for a pokemon with no reliable recovery as it will be chunked by all the stray Knock Off and such running around, and is left unable to check things it may have been able to take on before hand.

Just to check that it works this way I went and calced it:

252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 117-138 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dark Aura Spiritomb: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Funnily enough one of the best Dark STAB users in the meta (Mega Gyarados) actually can't 2HKO defensive Spiritomb with Crunch because Mold Breaker ignores Dark Aura, even when it is boosting Gyarados' moves Q_Q

So yeah I just think that this should be considered when we talk about Spiritomb. It isn't a major set back though. It just means that it has 1 and a half weaknesses rather than 1 ;)

 

[Patolegend!]

Gonna jot down my thoughts about this slate:

Shell Smash Carracosta - I think people are forgetting that Carracosta has got three great abilities and can get great usage out of each one. With the Steel typing it now loses its 4x weakness to Grass, gains a 4x resistance to Ice, gains a 4x resistance to Steel, gains an immunity to poison, and gains a resistance to Bug. Water/Steel is a great defensive typing, and Carracosta has the coverage and abilities to get the most from it. Given that most priority in the meta is physical, Carracosta is pretty difficult to revenge:

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 175-207 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 234-276 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 195-230 (67.2 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Solid Rock gives it a buffer against priority and makes it easier to set up, while Swift Swim gives it pretty reasonable speed even with Adamant after a smash, at 652 speed it outspeeds Kingdra, while pre-smash it still outspeeds Garchomp by one point. Sturdy is another option that can be used to get two shell smashes on teams with good hazard control (one on the switch, one on the EQ/Close Combat/Thunderbolt), although this leaves it more open to Ferro/Chomp finishing it off with Iron Barbs/Rough Skin.

Yes Iron Head is shite STAB coverage, but with Low Kick it has all the coverage it needs, and Waterfall hurts at +2:

+2 252+ Atk Mystic Water Carracosta Waterfall vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy in Rain: 228-268 (62.4 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Dragon Dance Mega Glalie would end up suffering from a bit of 4MSS, because it really wants Ice Shard, Freeze Dry, Double Edge, and EQ as well as DD. Still, that power:

+1 252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 140-165 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

As it happens, Shell Smash might have had more sense flavor-wise than DD, but its still a pretty cool choice :)

Belly Drum Floatzel - THAT SPEED. I really think we're understating the importance of the speed, handling 'mons that Azu needs weakening before it can get past:

+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 418-492 (131 - 154.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 271-319 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Venusaur: 313-369 (85.9 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 397-468 (122.9 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 416-490 (128.7 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 382-450 (94.5 - 111.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 352-415 (114.6 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 399-470 (137.1 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-B: 425-501 (108.6 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Floatzel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 301-355 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Azu needs all these to be weakened for a +6 Aqua Jet to finish off, while Floatzel just runs right through them.

It also can't be T-waved by Thundurus, and can't be Sucker Punched by Bisharp, as it out-prioritizes it.

I can see it being used on Dual Screens HO to remove stuff for BD Azu to sweep, or to clean up after it. With Dual Screen/Memento support, it can almost take a hit:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel through Light Screen: 137-162 (44 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Floatzel through Light Screen: 135-160 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

I really like this, especially as it can't be burnt.

Dark Aura Spiritomb could be cool, but it's still got some serious issues. People saying a defensive set is outclassed by Mega Sableye forget that it can provide pretty similiar utility without costing you the Mega slot, only forgoing Magic Bounce, and the extra power on Foul Play gets some crucial KOs:

0- Atk Dark Aura Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 352-415 (97.5 - 114.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Dark Aura Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 243-286 (75.2 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Dark Aura Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 238-282 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

With Rest talk it can avoid the burn, and it's bulk is still pretty impressive at 50/108/108 (although significantly less than Sableye's 50/125/115, it makes up for it with leftovers), beating rotom's 50/107/107 without needing the speed, so it can be fully invested.

 

[Psicodelico]

Carracosta @ Leftovers (Water/Steel)
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Scald
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Filler

Carracosta looks like a cool wall that can work nice with a cleric like sylveon because of the type sinergy+wish support and heal bell.
I see this thing becoming powerful in deffensive teams.

0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Carracosta: 113-133 (32.1 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 105-124 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carracosta: 31-37 (8.8 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carracosta: 210-247 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 145-172 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can take hits from a bunch more pokemons but I'm to lazy to do all the calcs

 

[Kabuu]

Also wth is that calc with 0 atk Spiritomb above rofl. If you're gonna pursuit something actually take the effort to bump the attack up.

Ehh, used the same spreads for the sake of consistency. In hindsight probably shouldn't have done that. Here are some more accurate ones.

252+ Atk Dark Aura Spiritomb Pursuit vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 228-270 (86.6 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Dark Aura Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 8 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 458-542 (174.1 - 206%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gengar is kill.

 

[Pipotchi]

I think Carracosta seems way better as a tank. Water/Steel is one of the best defensive typings in the game and Solid Rock is a fantastic defensive ability, paired with a great combination of Scald + Stealth Rock which is always going to be valuable. Hes a great answer to mega altaria, 2hkoing with uninvested iron head and avoiding the 2hko from +1 eq, even after SR. Not to mention that his special bulk is deceptive, with about 40 spd EVs I believe he always avoids an ohko from Mega Manectric's thunderbolt which is pretty great and something very unexpected from 74/133/65 defenses. He defends against fairy types pretty well, having solid rock to take any non-STAB earthquakes and water typing makes fire attacks neutral. He also avoids the 3hko from mega metagross, and can fish for a scald. I mean hes mainly a stealth rock setter, reminds me a little of Swampert in UU due to the combo of SR and Scald along with physical orientation- but I guess a little better because he always has the threat of having a pretty decent attacking set too with shell smash.

 

[NinetyNineNo]

Peculiar slate. Let's see.

Water/Steel Carracosta: Certainly a good buff, but I'm not sure it'll be enough for it to escape its mediocrity. The thing that strikes me about Carracosta is that its intended role, as a Shell Smash sweeper, seems to go counter to its strengths and what it'd gain from this type change. It's got quite good defense, which only gets better with Solid Rock and Water/Steel being great defensively, but it's got only decent attack and it's slow as molasses. Thus, using a boosting move that doubles its offenses and speed at the expense of its defenses seems counterproductive. The calcs I've seen so far suggest that a Life Orb is all but mandatory for any decent damage output, so a White Herb is pretty inferior, and while I'm always glad for more offensive Steels (FAIRY GODPARENTS), Water/Steel is much better defensively than offensively, what with being walled by the common bulky Waters. It's interesting to be sure, but I'll have to be convinced of its viability.

Dragon Dance Glalie: I'm betting the council members are already sick of hearing about flavor complaints, but there we go. Not that I'm complaining about anything to get Mega Glalie out of mediocrity, given that it has the absurdly powerful STAB Refrigerate Explosion and not much else. Its speed is at a nice tier for Dragon Dancers (hello, Zard X) and its Attack, once Refrigerate is taken into consideration, is also good enough. My main issue (besides flavor) is that its weakness to common priority is a big hindrance. Not that that's stopped Landorus and Diancie from dominating, but it's still something to consider, especially when you take its only passable 80/80/80 defenses into account.

Dark Aura Spiritomb: Not really feeling it. Its 92/92 offenses aren't good enough to give it a real niche, particularly when it's as slow as it is and has no reliable recovery. Seems thoroughly outclassed by Mega Sableye (and the "Mega opportunity cost" argument only goes so far). It would be pretty interesting to see Dark Aura Foul Plays, though. I can see it tanking a boosted physical sweeper's attack and OHKO back.

Belly Drum Floatzel: My favorite of the bunch. I have fond memories of Floatzel from way back on Diamond, but this actually gives it a niche. Its golden speed tier of 115 means it's not completely outclassed by Azumarill, as its Waterfall hits quite a bit harder than Azumarill's Aqua Jet. It does get Aqua Jet itself, so it can also beat priority-reliant mons like Bisharp and (Adamant) Talonflame. It can't get burned, so Will-o-Wisps and weak Scalds are a free switch-in. And to cap it all off, Baton Pass + Belly Drum is a combo that's not seen in any other mon bar Smeagle and if passed to the right recipient it's basically gg. The downside is that its pathetic bulk means it's only setting up upon forcing something out, and that's a small enough pool. I'm also suspicious of most things with barren enough movepools that they have to rely on Return for coverage. Despite these flaws, definitely my favorite of the bunch.

 

[Patolegend!]

guide:
Pokemon | Pokemon | Pokemon | Pokemon
Winner (and buff) | Buff | Buff | Buff
votes | votes | votes | votes
bold = winner

Previous Slates:

Technician | Steel / Fairy | Ice / Steel | Shadow Tag
18 | 17 | 4 | 3

Sand Stream | Drought | Drizzle | Snow Warning
12 | 10 | 1 | 1

Prankster | Sticky Web | Regenerator | Tinted Lens
11 | 6 | 2 | 0

Parting Shot | Recover | Solid Rock | Extreme Speed
10 | 7 | 3 | 1

Protean | Lightning Rod | Healing Wish | Levitate
10 | 7 | 2 | 2

Defiant | Regenerator | Intimidate
13 | 9 | 5

Sand Rush Mega Garchomp deslated

Multiscale | Prankster | Rock Polish | Dark Void
13 | 11 | 2 | 0

Lightning Rod | Prankster | Sticky Web | Regenerator
15 | 10 | 1 | 1

second place round

Volt Switch | Contrary | Focus Blast | Dragon Dane
20 | 10 | 6 | 0

Arena Trap | Normalize | Adaptability | Tinted Lens
26 | 8 | 6 | 0

Simple | Unaware | Levitate | Energy Ball
14 | 7 | 6 | 2

Wish | Competitive | Extreme Speed | Aerilate
22 | 21 | 3 | 1

Moxie | Sand Rush | Spikes | Electrify
20 | 19 | 11 | 3

Sucker Punch | Unaware | Nasty Plot | Mold Breaker
23 | 18 | 13 | 0

Steel (Flash Cannon > Air Slash) | Sheer Force | Quiver Dance | Reflect Type
40 | 13 | 1 | 0

Roost | Dragon Dance | Poison Heal | Drought
32 | 13 | 11 | 7

Focus Blast | Drought | Dragon Dance | Poison Heal
29 | 13 | 13 | 9

Fur Coat | Protean | No Guard | Fairy / Poison
31 | 21 | 8 | 3

Dragon | Intimidate | Contrary | Raichu
45 | 13 | 13 | 4



This took exactly 59 minutes. Please enjoy. >:o

I know this took forever and is very informative, but would it be possible to post slates from the older threads too? Like what competition did Vital Spirit Archeops face? How about Poison/Steel Weezing?

Had some spare time, for those who were interested:

Same format as unfixable:

guide:
Pokemon | Pokemon | Pokemon | Pokemon
Winner (and buff) | Buff | Buff | Buff
votes | votes | votes | votes
bold = winner

Previous Slates:

Vital Spirit | Steel / Fairy | Recover | Sheer Force
13 | 8 | 0 | 5

Normal / Ghost | Baton Pass | Klutz | Technician
8 | 2 | 1 | 7

Poison / Steel | Nasty Plot | Intimidate | Ice / Steel
7 | 0 | 0 | 3

Magic Guard | Shadow Tag | Recover | Rough Skin
Can't find vote count!

 

[Blumenwitz]

Water/Steel Carracosta: Kind of underwhelmed by this one, to be honest. It has a great defensive typing and solid defensive stats, but it's beyond slow (even after Shell Smashing) and its offensive stats are only okay. Maybe if it got a recovery move like Slack Off, or hell, Rapid Spin, it would make a great supporter, but as a sweeper? Eh.

Dragon Dance Mega Glalie: This move would be a huge boon to Glalie; there's no doubt about that. My problem with it is that it makes no sense flavor wise. For one thing, Glalie's not a dragon. It doesn't even look like a dragon. And then there's the "dance" part. Doesn't dancing require, you know, limbs? Maybe a torso of some sort? Glalie's just a floating head.

Dark Aura Spiritomb: I was skeptical about this one until I saw the calcs. Dark Aura- boosted Foul Play is a fantastic way to reliably do damage without any attack investment, and it's enough to make most physical sweepers think twice about switching in. On top of that, burns don't cut FP damage in half (on the target, that is), so Spiritomb can feel free to wisp to its heart's content. I think this one will get my vote this slate.

Belly Drum Floatzel: With blazing speed, decent attack and immunity to burn, Floatzel sounds like it'd be a deadly sweeper if it gets the chance to set up. The only trouble is, that's kind of a hard "if", considering the fact that its defenses are comparable to wet spaghetti. Baton Passing BD is a nice niche, though, so maybe it'll have its place in the meta as a high risk/ high reward sweeper.

 

[Kurona]

Dragon Dance Mega Glalie: This move would be a huge boon to Glalie; there's no doubt about that. My problem with it is that it makes no sense flavor wise. For one thing, Glalie's not a dragon. It doesn't even look like a dragon. And then there's the "dance" part. Doesn't dancing require, you know, limbs? Maybe a torso of some sort? Glalie's just a floating head.

Honestly - and this is coming from the person that didn't like Unaware Registeel due to the other Regis not getting it - don't take flavour into account much if at all. If something like fucking Whiscash can get DD, I don't see why Glalie can't. Still weird as hell, but hey. Whatcha gonna do.

 

[pika pal]

Dragon Dance Mega Glalie: And then there's the "dance" part. Doesn't dancing require, you know, limbs? Maybe a torso of some sort? Glalie's just a floating head.

 

[Blumenwitz]

Okay, guys, you've made your point. X3

I'm still going to have to give the edge to Dark Aura Spiritomb, though.

I mean, Dark Aura boosted Foul Play is just too good to pass up. It gives Spiritomb the freedom to invest fully in defense while still having the ability to dish out a ton of punishment.

 

[Patolegend!]

Doesn't dancing require, you know, limbs? Maybe a torso of some sort? Glalie's just a floating head.

Floating heads don't dance

 

[Sun King]

Let's get back on track you guys.

 

[Patolegend!]

Water/Steel Carracosta: Kind of underwhelmed by this one, to be honest. It has a great defensive typing and solid defensive stats, but it's beyond slow (even after Shell Smashing) and its offensive stats are only okay. Maybe if it got a recovery move like Slack Off, or hell, Rapid Spin, it would make a great supporter, but as a sweeper? Eh.

I wanna add to my previous thoughts about Carracosta and say that the steel typing lends it versatility. It could be a shell smasher using its bulk, typing, and abilities to get two smashes off, or it could be a great defensive asset. I know that the original intention was to stay away from comparisons with Empoleon, but Carracosta could be a defensive counterpart to the special defensive penguin, making it a more surefire counter to Smogon Burd, while also checking numerous attacking threats with scald due to Solid Rock (although its special attack is NOTICEABLY weaker):

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 139-165 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 105-124 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's seriously difficult to KO on the physical side, and the steel typing lets it take Meteor Mashes and Bullet Punches for days. It gets Knock Off for utility in the same vein as Empoleon, only missing out on Defog really.

It wouldn't be excellent, but it would work; to have the versatility to be a competent attacker or wall might just make it viable, as it does with Empoleon. No reliable recovery though :(

 

[Red Cat]

I wanna add to my previous thoughts about Carracosta and say that the steel typing lends it versatility. It could be a shell smasher using its bulk, typing, and abilities to get two smashes off, or it could be a great defensive asset. I know that the original intention was to stay away from comparisons with Empoleon, but Carracosta could be a defensive counterpart to the special defensive penguin, making it a more surefire counter to Smogon Burd, while also checking numerous attacking threats with scald due to Solid Rock (although its special attack is NOTICEABLY weaker):

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 139-165 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 105-124 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's seriously difficult to KO on the physical side, and the steel typing lets it take Meteor Mashes and Bullet Punches for days. It gets Knock Off for utility in the same vein as Empoleon, only missing out on Defog really.

It wouldn't be excellent, but it would work; to have the versatility to be a competent attacker or wall might just make it viable, as it does with Empoleon. No reliable recovery though :(

The problem with Carracosta is that it has very little offensive presence, so it can't even do much to some of these threats. All it can do to Mega Metagross is fish for Scald burns and Mega Lopunny can easily 2HKO while not fearing anything except a Scald burn from Carracosta. It can Toxic some threats and wear them down, but they will be able to break through Carracosta before Toxic can kill them because Carracosta has no reliable recovery. Looking through the viability rankings, I don't see many threats it can really stop.

Also, a note about Mega Glalie. It is actually shit on by a lot of other Theorymons. Weezing and Rotom-S resist all of Mega Glalie's common moves. Froslass can Prankster Will-O-Wisp it and resists Return. Milotic doesn't take much damage from any attack with Multiscale up and can easily phaze it out with Dragon Tail. Mega Steelix can trap and kill it without taking too much damage from +1 Return. Granbull has the bulk with Fur Coat to easily take a +1 Return. Mega Aggron is worse at taking Return with its buff, but still has the raw bulk to easily take a +1 Return and phaze it out with Dragon Tail or do a ton of damage with its Steel STAB. Mega Glalie can kill most of its checks and counters with a +1 Explosion, but is it really worth using your mega slot on a suicide bomber? So basically, most attempts for Mega Glalie to sweep will be cut short by other Theorymon.

Edit: Even without other Theorymon its chances of succeeding are shaky at best with its bulk and pure Ice typing. With the other Theorymon, it isn't much good at all. You can pretend the other Theorymon do not exist and vote for it, but it won't even be worth using if it does win.

 

[Sun King]

Also, a note about Mega Glalie. It is actually shit on by a lot of other Theorymons. Weezing and Rotom-S resist all of Mega Glalie's common moves. Froslass can Prankster Will-O-Wisp it and resists Return. Milotic doesn't take much damage from any attack with Multiscale up and can easily phaze it out with Dragon Tail. Mega Steelix can trap and kill it without taking too much damage from +1 Return. Granbull has the bulk with Fur Coat to easily take a +1 Return. Mega Aggron is worse at taking Return with its buff, but still has the raw bulk to easily take a +1 Return and phaze it out with Dragon Tail or do a ton of damage with its Steel STAB. Mega Glalie can kill most of its checks and counters with a +1 Explosion, but is it really worth using your mega slot on a suicide bomber? So basically, most attempts for Mega Glalie to sweep will be cut short by other Theorymon.

This holds no merit in this thread. We are not discussing that metagame here. We are only discussing OU.

 

[Patolegend!]

The problem with Carracosta is that it has very little offensive presence, so it can't even do much to some of these threats. All it can do to Mega Metagross is fish for Scald burns and Mega Lopunny can easily 2HKO while not fearing anything except a Scald burn from Carracosta. It can Toxic some threats and wear them down, but they will be able to break through Carracosta before Toxic can kill them because Carracosta has no reliable recovery. Looking through the viability rankings, I don't see many threats it can really stop.

But is this not the same thing with Empoleon? No physical attacker wants to risk a scald, as if it burns, it cripples. Carracosta can threaten/take down the same threats Empoleon can, just without defogging; it makes an even better counter to Talonflame for example. I just put the calcs for Meta and Lop to prove it's bulk,nothing more. The fact that Carracosta has a solid (pun intended) defensive ability puts its bulk actually similiar to penguins:

Calcs with both Sp.Def:

252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 202-238 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 204-242 (54.9 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Empoleon: 390-462 (105.1 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Carracosta: 207-244 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 157-187 (44.6 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Empoleon: 220-261 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

On a neutral physical hit, Carracosta takes less than Empoleon, while taking more damage on the special side, but who hits Carracosta/Empoleon with a neutral special hit? Gengar? Heatran? Maybe Hydreigon, but all have something to hit it supereffectively, which is where Solid Rock comes in to reduce the damage. Torrent is a great ability to have as a stop gap, but Solid Rock is a lot better on a defensive mon.

Water/Steel has four types that hit it neutrally (where Solid Rock makes no difference): Ghost, Dark, Fire and Grass. Grass is pretty rare, and Fire is usually backed up by Ground, Fight, or Electric.

All this while also maintaining the threat of being a bulky Shell Smasher on the offensive side.

If Empoleon is viable in OU, Carracosta can certainly be viable as well.

Also, a note about Mega Glalie. It is actually shit on by a lot of other Theorymons. Weezing and Rotom-S resist all of Mega Glalie's common moves. Froslass can Prankster Will-O-Wisp it and resists Return. Milotic doesn't take much damage from any attack with Multiscale up and can easily phaze it out with Dragon Tail. Mega Steelix can trap and kill it without taking too much damage from +1 Return. Granbull has the bulk with Fur Coat to easily take a +1 Return. Mega Aggron is worse at taking Return with its buff, but still has the raw bulk to easily take a +1 Return and phaze it out with Dragon Tail or do a ton of damage with its Steel STAB. Mega Glalie can kill most of its checks and counters with a +1 Explosion, but is it really worth using your mega slot on a suicide bomber? So basically, most attempts for Mega Glalie to sweep will be cut short by other Theorymon.

In OU though, it'll be a threat.

Edit: ninja'd by Sun King, that took so long to type :(

 

[TheBraveGallade]

Carracosta needs a jolly nature to be relevant after a shell smash js

---

Been lurking a bit but haven't rly posted much buck of a lack of interest in the slates (DD Garchomp when). That being said tho I thought I'd give my opinions on this one because why the fuck not. Or at least, Floatzel because that's the best one here imo.

Imo this thing would actually be pretty good because it has a much better speed tier (outspeeds Latis!!!) and unlike Azumarill, it doesn't have to rely on jet to sweep, which actually helps vs certain things. It also has ice punch to deal more damage to Venusaur which prevents it from countering (PhysDef is 2HKOed by +6 ice punch). My main gripe with this, tho, is what is it setting up on? The only real thing that comes to mind is defensive Heatran due to. A burn immunity, but other than that, floatzels shit bulk isn't gonna be doing it very many favors. Also it's BP set, while, interesting, is gonna have trouble getting off a smash as well as a BP because the recipient is gonna have to have some sort of bulk because otherwise it'll be revenge killed due to not having a speed boost. The whole premise seems interesting, but I have my doubts on the practicality of this. If smash passing, a much better strategy imo, is fairly mediocre, how is this gonna Be better?

DD chomp is NEVER going on here due to it being too high ranked for theorymon policies lol.

Anyway...
DD Glalie
mega glale with ddance is cool due to it being 100 speed and hitting HARD with refrigerate, and earthquake covering most everything else. And the thing is that after a ddance NOTHING is safe from explosion really. They send out thier premier phisical wall? Neutral explosion ohko's ferro and scarm most of the time and heatran is not coming on a EQ so imagine what wonders a boosted boom will do.

 

[Psicodelico]

DD chomp is NEVER going on here due to it being too high ranked for theorymon policies lol.

Anyway...
DD Glalie
mega glale with ddance is cool due to it being 100 speed and hitting HARD with refrigerate, and earthquake covering most everything else. And the thing is that after a ddance NOTHING is safe from explosion really. They send out thier premier phisical wall? Neutral explosion ohko's ferro and scarm most of the time and heatran is not coming on a EQ so imagine what wonders a boosted boom will do.

Just imagine this situation:

TURN 1: Mega Glalie used DD you opponent switched into ferrothorn.
TURN 2: Mega Glalie used Explosion, Ferrothorn and Mega Glalie fainted.

You wasted your mega just to kill a ferrothorn.... Not worthy to have a suicide Mega imo. It relays a lot in explosion kills and you can't make a sweeper kill itself after boosting that is only for suicide leads.

There are a lot more inconvenients:

• Bad typing
• Low base speed for ORAS OU
• Mediocre bulk for a DDancer
• Poor movepool (you can only OHKO most water/steel types with explosion and there are a lot of water/steel mons in OU)
• Doesn't appreciate hazards
• There are 3 other Mega DDancers that are better
• Mega Scizor and any priority user that can take a hit and OHKO or 2HKO (azumarill, conkeldurr)

It would be a great mon in UU but in OU..... I don't see this thing been really useful.

 

[Zapdos101]

I really want to like all of these, but I just feel like the only one that is viable in ou is the drum set. To be honest that one is still very inconsistent with how useful it is. Belly drum Floatzle probably has my vote

 

[Vxy]

Gyarados is a part of the Dragon egg group.

Been a while since I posted here so why not?

Water/Steel Carracosta: I can see why people draw comparisons to Empoleon, but...no. These two fill completely different roles so no point in comparing them. Anyways Water/Steel is a cool defensive typing, giving it a neutrality to Grass which is nice and new resistances in Dragon and Fairy. It also doesn't give a crap about any priority user so it can set up a Shell Smash pretty easily thanks to that enormous defense backed up by Solid Rock (which btw allows it to survive ridiculous stuff like Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword (though just barely)). It kind of misses STAB Stone Edge now but whatever. Shell Smash by itself isn't that good in OU sadly.

Dragon Dance Mega Glalie: Yeahhhh I like Glalie. Dragon Dance makes it scary and it no longer has to kill itself with Double Edge as it can use Return/Frustration instead. +1 Return can 2HKO physically defensive Skarmory which is amazing and also boosts its mediocre speed. Refrigerate Explosion already OHKOs like half the meta and Explosion is a nice last minute kill if needed when it's a "kill or be killed" situation with the rest of the moves it has. I can't say much about this; it'll probably get my vote.

Dark Aura Spiritomb: Nice but Dark Aura boosts the power of opposing team's Dark type moves too right? It has 1 and a half weaknesses which is actually really good but lack of recovery sucks especially when Knock Off is everywhere. Dark Aura boosted attacks are going to hurt however; can't say I like this one. It's decent; just not as good as I'd like.

Have no opinion on Belly Drum Floatzel because terrible bulk.