Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Isa Simple]

Will post more thoughts later, but I'm not finding this slate all that inspiring at a glance.

One concept jumping to mind is this:

Rotom-H @ Flame Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Magma Storm
- Trick
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch

My all time favorite thing about Rotom-H is tricking Flame Orbs to people. Even if you can't trap the things you want, the threat of trapping forces switches. Now imagine switching your Scarf T-Tar into a Trick, leaving it stuck with a permanent burn, and no speed. Or even a Thunder Wave. Rotom-H can either trap a target and cripple it beyond recover, or just force things to switch into such status. Then once you are happy with your self, Volt Switch out.

 

[aceguy123]

Thanks so much Sun King I haven't been participating in Theorymons for long but you have been a key figure in these discussions and thank you for looking at suggestions when I came up with them!

Onto the slate:

+ Magma Storm (it replaces Overheat so that not all Rotom forms receive Magma Storm)

This one is my least favorite because on paper I don't see getting Magma Storm as a big enough niche to change anything about the mon. I don't know what it'd do after the trap because anything it could trap and volt switch realistically out of is either going to die to a fire type move anyway or just straight up ohko it. There aren't many mons it can trap and then stay in on either. It's good against stall I guess.

+ Trace
This one is my favorite and actually quite genius. This is what I'm talking about for a theorymon. Destroys weather sweepers, destroys heatran, destroys m-sableye, destroys azu if it doesn't switch into play rough, beats zard-x before dd and gets tough claws, can check unaware clefable in a pinch after calm minds have gotten out of control, can make use of lopunny's ability after it dispatches it, when torn-t or amoongus inevitably switch in with it you can switch out and recover any chip damage you took, it can check and steal contrary from Serperior which will give it defenses each time it close combats (which actually calcs perfectly as Leaf Storm + Hidden Power Fire fails to 2HKO if you Close Combat and get the SpDef boost), bops megacham, fucks scolipede, has a neat time against non-scarf togekiss because it can get more crit hax from leaf blade and stone edge, if you lock victini into bolt strike you have a more accurate stone edge to work with, it can run certain moves to fuck with counters (taunt to beat thundurus, giga impact to beat malt and mgard), and the list can just go on and on. Probably gets the vote on awesomeness alone.

+ Shift Gear
This one is pretty good, lucario much prefers a speed boost than attack and getting the +1 attack is all he needs in many cases to start sweeping. Like just looking at the S ranks if Lucario sets up the Shift Gear it outspeeds and OHKO's both Zard-X and Megagross which is pretty huge. Same with Azu, MDiancie (on the outspeed part, already ohko'd but now guarantees OHKO with close combat so you don't have to risk iron tail accuracy), Excadrill (again outspeeds in sand), Chomp (although not tank chomp), Keldeo, Torn-T, MLop (outspeeds), Latis, Manaphy, pretty much everything that had good matchups before are donezo. Its best switchins are all 2hko'd by the wrong move (MSableye, Lando-T, Skarm) so they have to be careful about switching. It is still hard countered by MSlowbro and Slowbro but you can run Crunch over Extremespeed if you want to take care of regular bro. Honestly it's close to as OP as Geomancy Sylveon would've been and that's the only reason why I don't want to give it a vote only things keeping it from being that OP are the fact that it can't set up on as many things due to its fraility, it isn't +2 atk, it doesn't get a defensive boost, and it has life orb recoil. It does have two legs up over Sylveon in that its coverage is better and it gets Extremespeed to keep from getting revenge killed which is pretty huge so it puts it pretty square to that level of power. I just don't like how easy this thing would win the game for you. It's almost exactly like its mega except a little less power and more speed (and its physical only).

+ Fairy (replaces Normal typing)
This is good if not really obvious. Having actual resists on top of its enormous health and spdef may just give it the niche over chansey its been waiting for. It gives it the ability to front many of the physical attackers and attacks that would otherwise laugh at it like Weavile, MLop, and Keldeo and can then return fire with dazzling gleam. Having dragon immunity means it can get a predicted switch onto Dragonite or Zard-X and get a Twave off now if they aren't +2. Also it counters the shit out of Torn-T. On the other hand, Blissey has made her life worse against Gengar and Heatran. Also I feel as if it probably gains more poor matchups to physical attackers than it lost. Exadrill, Bisharp, Megagross, Scizor, and Scolipede all got better matchups. Conkeldurr doesn't mind it that much due to Poison Jab. I think it actually might be a tad overrated this switch, it still has many of the same problems due to its defense but giving it some better matchups that even Chansey envies may be enough.

 

[Rapture]

Shift Gear Lucario sounds like a savage in theory, plus two speed means there isn't much outspeeding you, and while the attack boost is smaller from an sword dance set, Lucario would be a force to be reckoned with since it has so many coverage options. Fairy type Blissey would be an improvement in every sense of the word imo since it only gets that much harder to take down once it gains some actual resistances, overall Blissey will probs get my vote since it would have a decent niche on balance and stall builds. The other options don't really interest me as much, but I'm sure they have their uses.

Ps - if Blissey ended up being implemented in the metagame, would chansey also gain a fairy typing? :o

 

[Valmanway]

Ps - if Blissey ended up being implemented in the metagame, would chansey also gain a fairy typing? :o

Nope.

 

[Tressed]

- Stuff like this is what Theorymon should be all about, finding ways of creatively improving mons. It's already been mentioned what it checks, so I won't get into that too much, but it checks so many things that I can't help but pick this for my vote. SD will probably be the most common set, but I'd be interested to see if the old Work Up set might have a niche in killing off Garchomp and the like.

- Pretty cool nomination, so far people are sleeping on this imo. Microwave might not be able to trap mons like Heatran can, but Magma Storm gives it far more staying power and allows it to wear things out more quickly thanks to the residual damage, which is pretty cool for a defensive mon. It also makes sure that people aren't making double switches on your Volt Switch and such, which is nice. Not a drastic improvement, but it is a nice upgrade.

- Blissey with resists. Doesn't really help with the passiveness issues, but at least it has a better typing than Chansey, which gives it an option if you don't like Knock Off. Does a decent job of stopping Keldeo and it's not as weak to coverage (Poison + Steel coverage is hilariously bad compared to Fighting). Again, not a game changer, but it is nice.

- wow scarE. Not having to rely on Extremespeed to beat offensive teams means that Luke is free to run more coverage moves and take advantage of that lovely Close Combat, which hits a hell of a lot harder at +1 than a +2 Extremespeed does. It's more vulnerable to revenge killers like this, but I think this is a lot better than the current SD Luke.

Between Lucario and Virizion, I'll probably pick Virizion simply because I feel like we need more answers to things rather than additional threats, and Virizion makes a nice check to a lot of issues for offensive teams. Lucario is hype af, but it doesn't exactly solve any issues in the tier, just adds another threat.

 

[Random Passerby]

Rotom-H + Magma Storm : Rotom-H can now spam its Fire STAB nilly willy without the fear of getting forced out. The mindgames of Trapping or Volt Switch should be good to give it a niche as it can give you a good match-up if you catch a switch correctly. However, it is still weak to Rocks. Overall, decent upgrade but will compete with Rotom-W who has a better defensive typing.

Virizion + Trace : This is fairly interesting. Now, it can revenge kill weather sweepers, wall Heatran and Trace Huge Power from Azumarill. With a solid movepool, this can be a dark horse in OU. However, it still can't beat Fairies and Scizors which stomps on it.

Lucario + Shift Gear : On paper, this seems really broken. Now, Lucario doesn't even need to run Extreme Speed and can run 1 extra coverage move alongside Close Combat. The fact that +2 Lucario is faster than Adamant Excadrill in the Sand, coupled with the fact that Lucario has much more coverage options means this is going to be OP. Only thing against it is it's frailty.

Blissey + Fairy-type : Blissey with a Clefable-like typing? Oh, God, as if Clefable isn't annoying enough, now, we have something which is even bulkier than it. The Fairy-typing gives it godlike-resistance and it is only weak to Steel (read: Mega Metagross, Excadrill, Bisharp, Scizor, full stop) and Poison (only Special Attackers lol) means this is going to be "overcentralizing" if not broken.

 

[Isa Simple]

Rotom-H + Magma Storm:
Posted the set, but honestly, this is hardly an upgrade. Yes you can spam your Fire STAB without having to switch, but its accuracy is appalling, and you have no chance of trapping what you come in on. The difference between this and other pokemon that use a trapping move like Heatran (or I believe there was a Whirlpool Mega Latias), is that they are lure sets. They force your opponent to switch to certain pokemon that beat the standard set, and then remove them. With Rotom-H, the trapping set is the standard set, meaning your gonna run Magma Storm 100% of the time and no one is gonna let you trap something that can't beat you 1v1. Rotom-H's role is gonna remain exactly the same; check certain things like Talon, gain momentum, and spread status. Magma Storm isn't gonna help that much, the only real benefit is not having to lose momentum by switching after using Fire STAB. I'd rather Flame Thrower.

Lucario + Shift Gear:
Never liked Lucario, too mainstream. Its also already decently viable in standard OU, but I guess we've been allowing Bs for a while so I'll let it go. Basically in short; I don't see this being healthy for the meta at all. Frailty could be a problem while setting up, but once there this'll just be stupid. It has the Speed to out pace the entire meta, as well as +1 Atk, Life Orb and an epic STAB in Close Combat with high base power. It also can opt for a priority move but I don't think that would be necessary given that the only priority Luc is weak to is Mach Punch, even resisting E-Speed, Sucker Punch and Ice Shard. The ridiculous combination of epic speed and power will 6-0 offense without Priority Para, and likely tear through Balance and Stall too. Basically; Lucario + Shift Gear = an awful lot of tomb stones. The only thing I'm thankful for is that it can't mega evolve in OU.

Blissey + Normal/Fairy Typing:
I'm certain this has been slated before, but I think it was on the old thread so its all g. The thing is, its simply isn't good. It doesn't solve Blissey's problems at all. Now Blissey has 2 resistances and an extra immunity, whoopy! As if it needed them specially lol. Bug and Dark resists are ok, but Bisharp and Scizor are two of the most common pokemon of those types, and both kill you even easier now. Also there may not be too many steels but its not like Bisharp, Scizor, Metagross and Exca are rare lol. And every decent Fighting type is still going to destroy you because you have piss weak defence and no Eviolite. Even if its neutral a strong Close Combat will chunk you. So realistically, the type change is hardly helping you at all, and isn't even attempting to adress your biggest problem. Blissey is still stupidly passive, and can hardly do anything to anything. Unless of course you're really cool and use Specs Dazzling Gleam to kill Keldeo and Latios.

Like most, I actually really like Virizion. So I'll do a separate post on it later with more smiley faces, rainbows and happiness than this post.

tl;dr
Rotom-H is hardly a buff, and still struggles against Rotom-W for a teams lot.
Blissey is hardly a buff, and is still largely outclassed by Chansey.
Lucario is a no no (please, we just got Protean Hydreigon, not this too).
Will talk about Virizion later on a lighter note.

 

[Eckleburg]

Blissey + Normal/Fairy Typing:
I'm certain this has been slated before, but I think it was on the old thread so its all g. The thing is, its simply isn't good. It doesn't solve Blissey's problems at all. Now Blissey has 2 resistances and an extra immunity, whoopy! As if it needed them specially lol. Bug and Dark resists are ok, but Bisharp and Scizor are two of the most common pokemon of those types, and both kill you even easier now. Also there may not be too many steels but its not like Bisharp, Scizor, Metagross and Exca are rare lol. And every decent Fighting type is still going to destroy you because you have piss weak defence and no Eviolite. Even if its neutral a strong Close Combat will chunk you. So realistically, the type change is hardly helping you at all, and isn't even attempting to adress your biggest problem. Blissey is still stupidly passive, and can hardly do anything to anything. Unless of course you're really cool and use Specs Dazzling Gleam to kill Keldeo and Latios.

The fairy typing will replace the normal typing. And having a fighting resist instead of a weakness is pretty damn good, imo. I would rather have a steal weakness than a fighting weakness, tbh (Poison is usually a special attack, except for maybe Gunk Shot on Toxicroak? Probably forgot something, but my point should be clear).

 

[silver97]

Rotom-H: yeah magma storm is a buff, you're not forced anymore to switch out and lose momentum. However it won't improve rotom's role in the metagame: it will still be a niche variant to rotom-w with worse defensive typing.

Blissey: don't like this, it's a fat and passive clefable, still keeps all her problems like being easily overwhelmed because of her passiveness and still faces some competition from chansey imo

Lucario: while buffing lucario is really hype, i honestly don't think we need this. What does another fast and powerful sweeper add to the metagame? Nothing really, except more pressure and difficulties in teambuilding (things we already have enough)

Virizion: i actually love this. This is imo a really smart suggestion as it aims to find a way to improve the metagame instead of just adding another threat; It acts as a check to a lot of common threats that have already been listed many times. So this is probably gonna get my vote because i feel like this is the kind of suggestion we need

 

[Isa Simple]

The fairy typing will replace the normal typing. And having a fighting resist instead of a weakness is pretty damn good, imo. I would rather have a steal weakness than a fighting weakness, tbh (Poison is usually a special attack, except for maybe Gunk Shot on Toxicroak? Probably forgot something, but my point should be clear).

I stand corrected on that as I obviously didn't read the slate well enough.
I still don't think it will be very controversial. It would basically be Chansey with less overall bulk, traded for being able to absorb Knock Offs and a Fighting resist. Maybe same rank as Chansey or possibly 1 up depending on how important the resistances end up being.
Still doesn't solve the problem they both have of being far too passive.

 

[Celticpride]

So Shift Gear Luke was my idea so I'll go to bat for it. You may think it makes Luke broken or whatever but I don't see how that's the case with how frail it is. Its defenses are still sooo low. It's also still crammed for coverage moves even without ESpeed (which you still might want to use in case you can't find room to set-up and need to clean anyways). Right now most people see Luke as a meh Fighting type so I thought this would be one of the few buffs that could make it really relevant while still making a little bit of sense. There's only so much you can realistically do to a Mon who always uses the same three moves when it comes to adding just a coverage move, so I figured why not change the way it goes about boosting up. I also just don't think it's as bad in practice as some make it out to be.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

On Virizion:

Some of the good things Virizion can trace are:
-Intimidate from Landorus-T (allows it to more-or-less counter Landog)
-Huge Power from Azumarill (252 Atk Huge Power Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 171-202 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)
-Flash Fire from Heatran (allows it to switch in to Heatran safely :v)

^Those are the more notable ones from the top 15 mons. Obviously some abilities (Gale Wings, Sturdy, Technician) Virizion has no business using.

Others include:
-Thick Fat from Mega Venusaur (which it has no business switching into anyway, but gives it some resistances)
-Regenerator from Slowbro
-Tough Claws off nonboosted Mega Charizard X
-Magic Bounce from Mega Sableye (which shuts it down completely)
-Contrary from Serperior (< Oh shit. This is good.)

In addition, let's look at Virizion beyond its Calm Mind and Swords Dance sets. Virizion's movepool includes: Work Up, Taunt, Synthesis, Light Screen and Reflect, Toxic, Safeguard, Worry Seed, and Roar.

Stealing a set from Gen 5

Dual Screens Lead Virizion:
Virizion @ Light Clay
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Atk/ 252 Spe OR 252 HP/ 4 SpA/ 252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Close Combat/Giga Drain

Leading with this, you aren't immediately threatened by lead Landorus-T, lead Hippowdon, and lead Heatran. (yes, this can take on Heatran)
You can Taunt Skarmory and survive a Brave Bird by Tracing Sturdy.

PS: Virizion has BULK!:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 328-385 (84.9 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cons to Virizion?

-Low power - loses against Mega Scizor, against Venusaur, against the Latis and against most Fairies
-Unfortunately, it's slower than Mega Metagross, Thundurus, Weavile, Latio/as - which all OHKO it without thinking.
-Talonflame

 

[Isa Simple]

Lets Hype Virizion some more.

Virizion vs:
Crawdaunt - Comes in on anything other than Super Power and gets Adaptability before winning the match up.
Diggersby - Comes in on Earthquake or some miscellaneous coverage move and gets Huge Power before winning the match up.
Azumaril - Comes in on Water Fall, Knock Off, Aqua Jet or Belly Drum and gets Huge Power before winning the match up.
Mega Medicham - Comes in on Fake Out or after a death/slow volt-turn, getting Pure Power before winning the match up.

Its situations like these among more utility based mentioned that make Trace Virizion something to behold. And when some of the premier physical walls like Mega Slowbro and Hippowdon are weak to grass and fighting, there aren't many places you can hide.

252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 281-330 (71.3 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 416-491 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 257-304 (74.7 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 226-266 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And then you remember that Virizion gets Swords Dance too.

(Changed Giratina's typing to take the hit neutrally)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Virizion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 503-593 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's 150/120 Defence max invested. So at +2, anything taking CC neutrally with less defence than a max invested Giratina is gonna die.

Combine these fantasy scenarios with the utility based ones, grasping the likes of Flash Fire, Regenerator, Intimidate, Thick Fat, Contrary, Defiant, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Unaware and more, to back up that nice 91/129 SpD, and you have what is arguably the most fun to use and exciting viable pokemon in the game.
Its completely dependant on match up, well timed switching, and sacking, that will change this thing's ability to one of the many epic tools it can utilise to fulfill an amazing variety of given roles.

 

[Salemance]

Well Virizion is getting lots of love. Its sorta doing the mega role thingy (god i wish i couod remember the threads name where a mon is used to do a job of the mega....) of M-Zam which is great. Zam is fantastic, bulk Viriz can have some bulk to abuse at the exlense of a lot of speed and power. A lot has been said on it, but Zam got hot with trace, Viriz can too.


Lucario and Shift Gear huh? Last mon I recall really using shift gear in OU (not counting a random klingklang) was course Genesect, but its almost impossible to compare the two so Im not gonna really. Just note that we wont have to fear Lucario doing it nearly as well as that bug. The bulk and typing make easy work of that.
Now, Lucario usually has been run round as the +2 E-Speeder cause of lack of speed, which admittedly hurt like hell. Here he can abuse CC and other moves a bit as he isnt in and real danger of being outsped (outside of that bird). Lucario will still be forever in danger of living to boost cause of its aforementioned typing leaving it with some common weaknesses. If it does get a boost for a +1, its gonna hit moderately hard, but not toooo hard to where it will be over bearing. Does it make Lucario interesting? Yah, will be weird seeing him use stuff other than priority but could be a good change.


Blissey is interesting to say the least. We tried making it a Normal/Fairy type back during the days of Alex and I, but it didnt get all that much support. A pure retcon to a Fairy typing will make this thing more hated than the time we tried to give it a phazing move. Its gonna be odd, seeing it have some niche outside of Chansey, but where eould it go? Clefable, closest competition of pure fairy, is still a really, really great glue mon, can be offensive and defensive all at once, while Blissey is almost always a defensive mon. It still would have to find room away from Chansey, but this is something that i feel would be for the best. Stall neds some buffs outside of the offensive barage of late.


Now Rotom-H is, as stated many times, different.
Overheat was not perfect, but it had power. Magma Storm is a drop off, but it makes up in being able to deal residual damage. Combined with rotom-H usually being a dual status user, it can help deal some damage to them before ultimately switching out. Gonna be hell with storm missing and having less power, but it will like the chance to distinguish itself from its forms. Not the hit and run anymore, it is now a bit more different by just trying to trap em down. Is he perfect? Nah, but it is very cool.


All in all, we get a mini-Zam, a new way to veiw Lucario, a defensive buff of Blissey, and a new lease on life for Rotom-W. Best a luck to em all

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

Trace Virizion: The idea of walling heatran with a grass type is hilarious, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only trace user that can take advantage of Huge Power. Also, it is worth noting that it beats common swift swimmers by virtue of grass typing and greater speed (probably doesn't beat Kingdra, but it definitely beats Kabutops, Omastar, and Swampert). Probably getting my vote despite my thoughts that it will not be particularly prominent as a threat.
Shift Gear Lucario: I don't think I like Lucario enough to vote for this, but I don't think it is good enough for a vote anyways. There are too many powerful sweepers running around already for this poor man's dragon dancer to stand out.
Fairy Blissey: I suggested Fairy Blissey a few weeks ago, and then I withdrew my suggestion after comparing calcs with Normal Chansey. Blissey only handles Fighting types better than Chansey, because Chansey's superior bulk wins in almost every scenario. Naturally, I changed my suggestion to Fairy Chansey because that actually is better than regular Chansey. Obviously, it wasn't given a Chansey tho, because it wasn't slated. However, I'm going to stand by my findings that Normal Chansey is generally better than Fairy Blissey and not vote for this.
Magma Storm Rotom-H: Before slating this, I would've asked, "Does this actually improve Rotom-H in the OU metagame?" The answer would've been not really and the slating would have been voted down.

 

[pokefantalha]

Rotom-H + Magma Storm: I dont really see the use in this, as if you trap something, usually its either a switch in or something that stayed in on Rotom, so its usually something that wouldnt mind being trapped. So I dont think its worth losing the sheer power of Overheat Rotom.

Virazion + Trace:I really like this as it seems like it can screw over a lot of stuff. Coming in on something like a Poison Heal Gliscor while he goes for the Toxic seems really hilarious, plus what with Scarf Lando running everywhere, a traced Intimidate would really help. It can trace Huge Power, Tough Claws, Moxie, ect.

Lucario + Shift Gear: I never really ran physical lucario, mostly went with special as its special attack is higher anyways and to avoid being screwed over by burns, so Im not sure how this would turn out. If this was real, however, I would definitely run physical, no doubt. If you can be sweep with SD Lucario or Double Dance Lucario, it getting both a speed and an attack boost in a single turn, while maintaining your moveslots, sounds amazing.

Blissey + Fairy Typing: Finally, a niche Blissey has over chansey. It now actually resists things, and is immune to Dragon. However, it does have its bad points. Scizor can now kill it with Bullet Punch, Bisharp can kill it even harder than before, and MegaGross will completely devour it.

 

[MANNAT]

Trace Virizion: The idea of walling heatran with a grass type is hilarious, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only trace user that can take advantage of Huge Power. Also, it is worth noting that it beats common swift swimmers by virtue of grass typing and greater speed (probably doesn't beat Kingdra, but it definitely beats Kabutops, Omastar, and Swampert). Probably getting my vote despite my thoughts that it will not be particularly prominent as a threat.
Shift Gear Lucario: I don't think I like Lucario enough to vote for this, but I don't think it is good enough for a vote anyways. There are too many powerful sweepers running around already for this poor man's dragon dancer to stand out.
Fairy Blissey: I suggested Fairy Blissey a few weeks ago, and then I withdrew my suggestion after comparing calcs with Normal Chansey. Blissey only handles Fighting types better than Chansey, because Chansey's superior bulk wins in almost every scenario. Naturally, I changed my suggestion to Fairy Chansey because that actually is better than regular Chansey. Obviously, it wasn't given a Chansey tho, because it wasn't slated. However, I'm going to stand by my findings that Normal Chansey is generally better than Fairy Blissey and not vote for this.
Magma Storm Rotom-H: Before slating this, I would've asked, "Does this actually improve Rotom-H in the OU metagame?" The answer would've been not really and the slating would have been voted down.

how is it a poor man's dragon dancer if it outspeeds the entire meta after a boost, and most dragon dancers need 2 boosts to do this?

 

[aceguy123]

Trace Virizion: The idea of walling heatran with a grass type is hilarious, and I'm pretty sure it would be the only trace user that can take advantage of Huge Power. Also, it is worth noting that it beats common swift swimmers by virtue of grass typing and greater speed (probably doesn't beat Kingdra, but it definitely beats Kabutops, Omastar, and Swampert). Probably getting my vote despite my thoughts that it will not be particularly prominent as a threat.
Shift Gear Lucario: I don't think I like Lucario enough to vote for this, but I don't think it is good enough for a vote anyways. There are too many powerful sweepers running around already for this poor man's dragon dancer to stand out.
Fairy Blissey: I suggested Fairy Blissey a few weeks ago, and then I withdrew my suggestion after comparing calcs with Normal Chansey. Blissey only handles Fighting types better than Chansey, because Chansey's superior bulk wins in almost every scenario. Naturally, I changed my suggestion to Fairy Chansey because that actually is better than regular Chansey. Obviously, it wasn't given a Chansey tho, because it wasn't slated. However, I'm going to stand by my findings that Normal Chansey is generally better than Fairy Blissey and not vote for this.
Magma Storm Rotom-H: Before slating this, I would've asked, "Does this actually improve Rotom-H in the OU metagame?" The answer would've been not really and the slating would have been voted down.

You're off your rocker about Shift Gear Lucario it OHKO's the entire tier that isn't a defensive wall after a single boost and outspeeds pretty much everything except double danced Zard-x and the fastest of choice scarfers. After that it 2HKO's all of the relevant physical walls also not named Slowbro which you can run Crunch for instead of extremespeed because you don't really need it anymore. Only thing stopping it is maybe having a rougher time setting up and possibly easier to revenge kill due to most of the physical walls having earthquake and just being frail in general and running life orb. That's about it, it's a monster only reason I wouldn't want to vote for it is because it's broken as shit and I'd rather have something interesting like Virizion but not voting for it because you don't see it as good is not really a good excuse tbh.

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

how is it a poor man's dragon dancer if it outspeeds the entire meta after a boost, and most dragon dancers need 2 boosts to do this?

I call it a poor man's dragon dancer because it will find far fewer opportunities to set up compared to Mega Altaria, Mega Charizard, and Mega Gyarados. It is also not too difficult to revenge kill. Nevertheless, I probably overstated how bad I think it is (bias).

You're off your rocker about Shift Gear Lucario it OHKO's the entire tier that isn't a defensive wall after a single boost and outspeeds pretty much everything except double danced Zard-x and the fastest of choice scarfers. After that it 2HKO's all of the relevant physical walls also not named Slowbro which you can run Crunch for instead of extremespeed because you don't really need it anymore. Only thing stopping it is maybe having a rougher time setting up and possibly easier to revenge kill due to most of the physical walls having earthquake and just being frail in general and running life orb. That's about it, it's a monster only reason I wouldn't want to vote for it is because it's broken as shit and I'd rather have something interesting like Virizion but not voting for it because you don't see it as good is not really a good excuse tbh.

Not quite the entire non defensive tier... XD
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 246-289 (82.8 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 313-369 (111.3 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I imagine that Lucario would have a terrible time setting up against offense because many things on offense either maim or kill it before it can do anything.
Still, I did overstate how bad this could be, but I still don't want to see that kind of offensive beast destroying defensive teams.

 

[pika pal]

So, my brief thoughts on each of the new ideas.

Magma Storm Rotom-H: It's an improvement from what Rotom-H was before, if only because it doesn't lose turns just by choosing the Fire STAB it has over Rotom-W. Magma Stormaccuracy is a bit weaker, but that doesn't stop Tornadus from depending on Hurricane and Focus Blast. It won't be able to make too much use of the trapping ability itself, but that's not what I look for at first. Even then, even if something disadvantageous switches into Magma Storm, keeping it there while Rotom-H gets to leave can work to your advantage as well in select situations. Also, minor note, but if your Oven shoots Magma, you've got bigger problems than a Ghost Gremlin. I see what it was trying, but an underwhelming idea.

Shift Gear Lucario: Well, it's an improvement over Swords Dance. One thing that this makes me consider is how would Lucario do as a mid-game sweeper as well as/instead of a lategame sweeper. The speed boost makes it less priority dependent, allowing it to spam its boosted STAB Close Combat instead. The STAB difference and higher BP covers a lot of the ground from only reaching +1, and CC's better coverage makes it much harder to spam mindlessly. It's not even like the defense drops mean anything to him. That said, I'm not sure what this would add to the meta game. It's yet another offensive sweeper, but Lucario's own fraility makes it better suited to face against offensively inclined balance teams at best.

Trace Virizion: Now here's an idea I can really sink some thought into. Mega Alakazam has already shown some of the more unique uses for Trace by beating common Weather Sweepers, but its overall lack of bulk hurts its ability to use the move against much besides Revenge Options. Virizion actually has pretty decent bulk and typing, resisting priority and the moves of a lot of mons it could steal abilities from (sometimes by virtue of the ability itself). The idea of stealing Huge Power off Azumarill or Pure Power from Medicham alone seems horrifying to consider for the SD set, considering its speed is significantly better than Medicham and it actually has the ability to survive something. Stealing Heatran's Flash Fire for what is not only a Fire immunity, but almost an essential Burn Immunity would make it an absolute counter to offensive Heatran (defensive sets carry Status that might make it trickier), and then there's the idea of tracing Tough Claws leading to this.

252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 242-285 (81.4 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

There's just alot Virizion could do with this, though Trace seems like one of those abilities that could work well in general if you get creative.

Fairy Type Blissey: No.


In all seriousness, this is just an idea I really don't like in general. We saw what just a shift to Fairy typing did for Clefable, shooting from NU to top OU, now give it to something that was BL with that awful Normal Typing. The thing is, Blissey is a mon that's inherently one-dimensional to begin with. Fairy is a much better defensive typing, but it pretty much trades Blissey's weakness to Fighting for two weaknesses to Poison and Steel. The thing is, most stuff that carried Focus Blast didn't carry it for Chansey anyway, and it's not like there's a shortage of mons with something to hit Clefable, which were usually Physical coverage moves like Iron Head or Gunk Shot anyway. I dislike this buff because it doesn't let Blissey handle anything that either it didn't handle already, or that something else (Clefable, Chansey, or otherwise) didn't handle just as well, usually while bringing more to the table. The only thing that might lose out are a couple of Fighting types and Physical Dark types, but going over some in the upper ranks, or just some powerful stuff in general.

Against Fairy

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 342-403 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 339-399 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 381-448 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 360-426 (55.2 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Losing the Fighting weakness does not amend Blissey's absolutely pathetic Physical bulk against neutral hits, and unlike Fighting, which could cover either spectrum depending on what needed to cover what, Steel and Fighting Moves are basically always going to be Physical because of the equal or greater Special Bulk Fairies have.

 

[Isa Simple]

Time for a core :D

+

Mega Manectric is a great partner to Virizion for many reasons. Mega Manectric is a great check to many of the Flying types that give Virizion trouble such as Talonflame, Tornadus-T, Gyarados, Hawlucha, and Mega Pinsir. Overheat/Flamethrower also helps to take out most of the bug types that resist Virizion's STABs. In fact most pokemon which Virizion can potentially struggle against like Grass, Fire, Psychic and Ghost type are faired against quite well by Manectric. Also steels like Skarm and Scizor. Lastly it obviously has Volt Switch to provide switch ins to Virizion to Trace appropriate abilities while holding momentum and getting nice chip damage.
In return, Virizion offers an answer to many bulky grounds that trouble Mega Man like Lando-T, Rhyperior, Quagsire, Hippowdon, etc. It also deals with other Mega Manectric counters like Rotom-W and Heatran. Heatran in particular is cool because Trace lets Virizion switch in too. Trace also lets Virizion beat many Swift Swimmer such as Mega Swampert, who could otherwise destroy Manectric. With LO, Virizion can OHKO Mega Charizard X with CC after SR, due to nabbing Tough Claws. Char can't be boosted though. Also Zen Headbutt on Virizion helps vs Mega Venusaur.
Tornadus-T is a great partner to this core as it creates a Volt Turn Core with Mega Manectric. Also between Hurricane, Knock Off, and U-Turn, it helps with Psychics and Grass types that can give the core trouble like Lati@s, Reuniclus, Mega Venusaur and Celebi. Also pack a better Charizard X counter.

Importable

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Zen Headbutt
- Swords Dance

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat / Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

 

[Vxy]

Time for a core :D
Also pack a better Charizard X counter.
[/hide]

I think you mean check because Zard X counters don't exist :D

Fairy-type Blissey: Ugh, as much as I hate stall, I think it deserves a chance in this meta (although it's not going to stand a chance against things like Hoopa-U and SD Charizard X). I mean, there need to be more defensive things being slated here partly because everything being slated is offensive. Anyways, my main problem with Fairy-type Blissey is that it doesn't really handle anything new, something it couldn't already do before, or something a different Pokemon like Chansey or Clefable couldn't. pika pal already outlined that stuff so I don't think I have anything left to say about this.

Magma Storm Rotom-H: This is nice and all until you realize 1) it has worse power, 2) it has worse accuracy, and 3) it's counter-productive with Volt Switch. I have never used Rotom-H in OU so correct me if I'm wrong but Rotom-H is used to check things like Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Grass types. I get that Magma Storm has more consistent damage but I'm sure that usually when you use Overheat, you're probably going to either Volt Switch next or directly switch. Idk, I don't have much to say since I don't really know what it's supposed to do.

Lol not enough time to type the rest...AGAIN.

 

[GlassVeins]

I think that the idea behind rotom-h +magma storm is to trap one of its checks, then switch into something that can ko said mon. I dont know why you'd replace overheat with this, as rotom's mediocre movepool could easily fit both moves.

 

[MANNAT]

I think you mean check because Zard X counters don't exist :D

Defensive unaware quagsire exists :D
So does defensive slowbro with iron defense

 

[Karxrida]

2HKO'd by Outrage.

I'll post something of substance later.