Project OU Weekly Research | v2 hosted by Terrakion. coming soon!

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Sooooo I lost an absolute ton of ELO doing this (currently net loss 200 after having lost 400 total). I'd like to say rain stall isn't viable but I think my conclusion is better reached that Goodra is just garbage on full stall, even in rain (However goodra is amazing vs Volcanion, especially if goodra goes rest/rain dance so it can never be statused). There have been a few successful variants (one that actually started winning me games before the massive goodra streak) so I'll focus on them.



So I actually think the sets having been used in the past are kinda garbage. Currently, I think Scald/Rapid Spin/Toxic Spikes/Knock off is the standard set. I tried two variations: Acid Spray > Toxic Spikes alone and then Acid Spray >Toxic Spikes + Dazzling Gleam > Knock off. Both sets are kinda focused at destroying Sable harder or taking Keldeo better. I settled for the former, since it also wrecked chansey. Obviously Rain Dish > Liquid Ooze gives you fantastic passive recovery. TL:DR: Acid Spray is a must, toxic spikes too easy to clear.

Overall, Tentacruel is really bad vs offensive teams. In theory it has fantastic special bulk but in practice you're against thundurus, Torn-T in rain, Keldeo in rain, and Volcanion in rain. You do take Keldeo/Volcanion, but I ended up reverting to chansey because you just don't have the straight up special bulk. Vs Slower teams, he's actually really good. He beats most ghosts in tier and disables a lot of items. Setup sweepers risk burns and long attrition fights end up at .25 Spdef from acid spray. He also absorbs a lot of status no questions asked.

Strategies Used:

So rain stall naturally uses 2 waters. You NORMALLY want to go double water+Grass here but in fact, you have to use different water types from normal. It is really weird to say, but Rain stall currently has 'power windows' where you're more a really bulky balance team than a stall team. I tried abusing Rain in two ways: First off, I dedicated a mega to swift swim (swampert) and sweep on through as a wincon. It was incredibly efficient, actually. Secondly, I didn't take any real counters to fire mons in the tier. Instead, I focused on mons that would carry hurricane, electric types and other waters. These are much easier to cover anyways.

The second team I tried took Sableye-Mega over Swampert and Goodra replaced by Chansey. This was an attempt at full-stall which was basically attempting to see how rain hazard control went. Overall, this team was slightly less successful because you weren't able to completely dominate in those small windows. You did, however, neutralize Heatran, who I've longed believed to be the most annoying mon for a Sable team. It has really nice control but sometimes low pressure. Hyper Offense is generally screwed but bulky offense can normally slug it out.

Semi-Stall Team Building Process:



Politoed+Tentacruel (due to project) is a must on rain stall. Politoed has a real interesting niche in being able to handle both Zards to a relatively decent extent, so I gave him a physically defensive spread and toxic. Rest was his only real recovery due to damp rock being really nice. Rain was too short to operate in use Chesto Berry here. Grass types cut the two weaknesses of water, so I took Tangrowth to cover grass (mainly loom/ferro) and Electric (kinda rare for physical electrics since I wanted to use lefties Tangrowth). Due to the bulk distribution, I went weird and allowed my mixed wall in the Waterx2+Grass to be Tentacruel. Luckily, Tangrowth is really good vs Keldeo so it was one last threat.

Due to the nature of the physical core, there was 0 way to take the three stall breakers in the remaining three mons. I attempted Jirachi for a few games by Medicham shafted me multiple times. Eventually, enter Doublade. I did end up abusing his ability to take Latios super hard so I could take on Goodra as my special wall. This team had 0 heal bell, but two status absorbers (four, if you count rest on doublade and politoed). Goodra takes almost nothing from most special attacks and hydration gives goodra super reliable recovery in those powerful windows. I was between Kabutops and Swampert-M to finish off the team, but made the choice for Swampert because I also needed rocks. The team has no wish, but every mon has incredibly strong recovery. No heal bell but Goodra doesn't care about statuses. Overall, this team had a few of the standard rain issues (ferro, rotom-w) but both were actually handled really nicely by Goodra. In this team, I think Goodra was the best mon I could've taken on.

It IS ground weak. I have double ground weak and Goodra can't take a physical hit for it's life. However, Tangrowth doesn't give a shit and ground mons are fine to leave up since Swampert can tank and sweep right through them. The fun thing about this team was letting Swampert go wild for a few turns under rain and then pulling back to stall. Goodra is actually a fantastic TornT and Thundy-i counter if you can control the weather periodically. I kept rain dance on Goodra to allow me the ability to continue this. Because of the set, I rarely had to deal with Ferro in the late game. One fire blast and I no longer had to really worry about Ferro stopping Swampert's reign. Even under rain, 40% of ferro's HP was missing.

Because this team has 0 issues with hazards, I adjusted Tentacruel to come out with a far more offensive set. This Dazzling Gleam/Acid Spray/Scald set was actually kinda scary for a lot of teams if they got sprayed coming in. Because the pressure from the other mons was high and rain was almost always available, Tentacruel was able to actually exert reasonable pressure when in. I would say Goodra, Doublade killed some pressure (but Doublade had pursuit trap so it was fine) and Swampert/Tangrowth/Tenta generated a lot of it back. Politoed mainly was kept away from fights to continue generating rain and mainly turned into a talonflame/ZardX catch if they existed. It actually allowed me to run toed like quagsire (having haze) to keep enemy setup sweepers nonviable.

Really, I only dropped this variant for another because I wanted to go full Stall at least once. This team probably had me a 70% WR.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
- Dazzling Gleam

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Rest

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Rest
- Pursuit

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake


Team Building: Rain Stall

So this team ignores the back half (Goodra/Doublade/Swampert) of the last team and attempts full stall. I decided that Sable in rain would be a monster, keeping a steel was huge and that goodra was trash when I had no sweeping threat. This team didn't feel as good, and it wasn't because there wasn't a lot of support for Sable. Sable actually liked the rain constantly being up so he could basically prevent heatran from bothering him. The issue was this team had even less ability to sweep out ground types. Toed was the only remaining threat to killing them and Tangrowth could wall them, but they're also rock carriers. If Lando-i or Chomp got burned, it was fine. However, otherwise you were taking too much health with low retribution and spinning with a ground weak.

What I'm trying to say is Lando was annoying, even with full defensive skarm. This team also got a taste of Hurricane knock off torn and was not happy. Sable isn't paid to put up with that. If you could get away from Torn-T and neutralize landorus just a bit to stop him from wearing sable down with u-turn momentum, the team is actually surprisingly solid. What I ended up doing was just ignoring rock blocks if Landorus was in the game until later and allowing tentacruel just so spin off. This set was also the trash-chansey set and was pretty good to me in doing a bit of stallbreaking (cleared sable, chansey relatively easily, and could threaten burns pretty well on amoongus/quag).


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
- Knock Off

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Rest

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Spikes

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play


Final Thoughts

Overall, I was actually kinda impressed with Tentacruel on the first team. The full stall probably would've prefered skarm just to take defog duties EVEN WITH Sable there. However, it did allow the niche of clearing rocks for me and forcing the opponent into some awkward situations.

Tentacruel really appreciates rain for the 12% recovery per turn. Your recovery rate is deceptively high and if the opponent needs to switch, you've got 25% between attacks. The scald+rain gives him legitimate power, acid spray adds to that pressure. I think I preferred knock off even if having a way to crush sable outside of rain was really nice. He's not a good stall mon and shouldn't be seen on stall teams. However, his speed/power combination allows a more defensive rain team to open up with his usage.

I don't think the meta is great for tentacruel. Fast defoggers and ground types just below his speed tier when he's going defensive means his spinning can be rough. However, he is deceptively strong over long fights in neutral/neutral matchups. Rain is really kind to him and I think he fits on a balance/bulky offense style of rain better than Latias/Starmie/Skarm due to his ability to recover faster, take rain boosted keldeo and take advantage of acid spray. The team doesn't really need to support him since he does have speed enough to find at least one mon to reliable spin on and his coverage doesn't invite many switchins outside Ferrothorn.

Also Bulky Rain seems SUPER underrated. I think the archtype in general just wasn't touched due to it being tested in XY with rain mechanics and never focused on again. With Swampert-M having bulk and being able to do so much damage in so few turns with no setup, I think there are a great deal of options for bulky rain if it were to be explored. One of the huge advantages bulk rain has over HO rain is you have the time to wear down Ferrothorn and Rotom-wash to kill points. Neither are as good in long fights vs rains because Rotom's SpA isn't that great vs your own bulk on hydro pump and both are eventually getting burned down.

Lastly, Terrakion. needs to honor his debt in writing at least once.
 
Sooooo I lost an absolute ton of ELO doing this (currently net loss 200 after having lost 400 total). I'd like to say rain stall isn't viable but I think my conclusion is better reached that Goodra is just garbage on full stall, even in rain (However goodra is amazing vs Volcanion, especially if goodra goes rest/rain dance so it can never be statused). There have been a few successful variants (one that actually started winning me games before the massive goodra streak) so I'll focus on them.



So I actually think the sets having been used in the past are kinda garbage. Currently, I think Scald/Rapid Spin/Toxic Spikes/Knock off is the standard set. I tried two variations: Acid Spray > Toxic Spikes alone and then Acid Spray >Toxic Spikes + Dazzling Gleam > Knock off. Both sets are kinda focused at destroying Sable harder or taking Keldeo better. I settled for the former, since it also wrecked chansey. Obviously Rain Dish > Liquid Ooze gives you fantastic passive recovery. TL:DR: Acid Spray is a must, toxic spikes too easy to clear.

Overall, Tentacruel is really bad vs offensive teams. In theory it has fantastic special bulk but in practice you're against thundurus, Torn-T in rain, Keldeo in rain, and Volcanion in rain. You do take Keldeo/Volcanion, but I ended up reverting to chansey because you just don't have the straight up special bulk. Vs Slower teams, he's actually really good. He beats most ghosts in tier and disables a lot of items. Setup sweepers risk burns and long attrition fights end up at .25 Spdef from acid spray. He also absorbs a lot of status no questions asked.

Strategies Used:

So rain stall naturally uses 2 waters. You NORMALLY want to go double water+Grass here but in fact, you have to use different water types from normal. It is really weird to say, but Rain stall currently has 'power windows' where you're more a really bulky balance team than a stall team. I tried abusing Rain in two ways: First off, I dedicated a mega to swift swim (swampert) and sweep on through as a wincon. It was incredibly efficient, actually. Secondly, I didn't take any real counters to fire mons in the tier. Instead, I focused on mons that would carry hurricane, electric types and other waters. These are much easier to cover anyways.

The second team I tried took Sableye-Mega over Swampert and Goodra replaced by Chansey. This was an attempt at full-stall which was basically attempting to see how rain hazard control went. Overall, this team was slightly less successful because you weren't able to completely dominate in those small windows. You did, however, neutralize Heatran, who I've longed believed to be the most annoying mon for a Sable team. It has really nice control but sometimes low pressure. Hyper Offense is generally screwed but bulky offense can normally slug it out.

Semi-Stall Team Building Process:



Politoed+Tentacruel (due to project) is a must on rain stall. Politoed has a real interesting niche in being able to handle both Zards to a relatively decent extent, so I gave him a physically defensive spread and toxic. Rest was his only real recovery due to damp rock being really nice. Rain was too short to operate in use Chesto Berry here. Grass types cut the two weaknesses of water, so I took Tangrowth to cover grass (mainly loom/ferro) and Electric (kinda rare for physical electrics since I wanted to use lefties Tangrowth). Due to the bulk distribution, I went weird and allowed my mixed wall in the Waterx2+Grass to be Tentacruel. Luckily, Tangrowth is really good vs Keldeo so it was one last threat.

Due to the nature of the physical core, there was 0 way to take the three stall breakers in the remaining three mons. I attempted Jirachi for a few games by Medicham shafted me multiple times. Eventually, enter Doublade. I did end up abusing his ability to take Latios super hard so I could take on Goodra as my special wall. This team had 0 heal bell, but two status absorbers (four, if you count rest on doublade and politoed). Goodra takes almost nothing from most special attacks and hydration gives goodra super reliable recovery in those powerful windows. I was between Kabutops and Swampert-M to finish off the team, but made the choice for Swampert because I also needed rocks. The team has no wish, but every mon has incredibly strong recovery. No heal bell but Goodra doesn't care about statuses. Overall, this team had a few of the standard rain issues (ferro, rotom-w) but both were actually handled really nicely by Goodra. In this team, I think Goodra was the best mon I could've taken on.

It IS ground weak. I have double ground weak and Goodra can't take a physical hit for it's life. However, Tangrowth doesn't give a shit and ground mons are fine to leave up since Swampert can tank and sweep right through them. The fun thing about this team was letting Swampert go wild for a few turns under rain and then pulling back to stall. Goodra is actually a fantastic TornT and Thundy-i counter if you can control the weather periodically. I kept rain dance on Goodra to allow me the ability to continue this. Because of the set, I rarely had to deal with Ferro in the late game. One fire blast and I no longer had to really worry about Ferro stopping Swampert's reign. Even under rain, 40% of ferro's HP was missing.

Because this team has 0 issues with hazards, I adjusted Tentacruel to come out with a far more offensive set. This Dazzling Gleam/Acid Spray/Scald set was actually kinda scary for a lot of teams if they got sprayed coming in. Because the pressure from the other mons was high and rain was almost always available, Tentacruel was able to actually exert reasonable pressure when in. I would say Goodra, Doublade killed some pressure (but Doublade had pursuit trap so it was fine) and Swampert/Tangrowth/Tenta generated a lot of it back. Politoed mainly was kept away from fights to continue generating rain and mainly turned into a talonflame/ZardX catch if they existed. It actually allowed me to run toed like quagsire (having haze) to keep enemy setup sweepers nonviable.

Really, I only dropped this variant for another because I wanted to go full Stall at least once. This team probably had me a 70% WR.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
- Dazzling Gleam

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Rest

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Rest
- Pursuit

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake


Team Building: Rain Stall

So this team ignores the back half (Goodra/Doublade/Swampert) of the last team and attempts full stall. I decided that Sable in rain would be a monster, keeping a steel was huge and that goodra was trash when I had no sweeping threat. This team didn't feel as good, and it wasn't because there wasn't a lot of support for Sable. Sable actually liked the rain constantly being up so he could basically prevent heatran from bothering him. The issue was this team had even less ability to sweep out ground types. Toed was the only remaining threat to killing them and Tangrowth could wall them, but they're also rock carriers. If Lando-i or Chomp got burned, it was fine. However, otherwise you were taking too much health with low retribution and spinning with a ground weak.

What I'm trying to say is Lando was annoying, even with full defensive skarm. This team also got a taste of Hurricane knock off torn and was not happy. Sable isn't paid to put up with that. If you could get away from Torn-T and neutralize landorus just a bit to stop him from wearing sable down with u-turn momentum, the team is actually surprisingly solid. What I ended up doing was just ignoring rock blocks if Landorus was in the game until later and allowing tentacruel just so spin off. This set was also the trash-chansey set and was pretty good to me in doing a bit of stallbreaking (cleared sable, chansey relatively easily, and could threaten burns pretty well on amoongus/quag).


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 28 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Acid Spray
- Knock Off

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Haze
- Rest

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Spikes

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play


Final Thoughts

Overall, I was actually kinda impressed with Tentacruel on the first team. The full stall probably would've prefered skarm just to take defog duties EVEN WITH Sable there. However, it did allow the niche of clearing rocks for me and forcing the opponent into some awkward situations.

Tentacruel really appreciates rain for the 12% recovery per turn. Your recovery rate is deceptively high and if the opponent needs to switch, you've got 25% between attacks. The scald+rain gives him legitimate power, acid spray adds to that pressure. I think I preferred knock off even if having a way to crush sable outside of rain was really nice. He's not a good stall mon and shouldn't be seen on stall teams. However, his speed/power combination allows a more defensive rain team to open up with his usage.

I don't think the meta is great for tentacruel. Fast defoggers and ground types just below his speed tier when he's going defensive means his spinning can be rough. However, he is deceptively strong over long fights in neutral/neutral matchups. Rain is really kind to him and I think he fits on a balance/bulky offense style of rain better than Latias/Starmie/Skarm due to his ability to recover faster, take rain boosted keldeo and take advantage of acid spray. The team doesn't really need to support him since he does have speed enough to find at least one mon to reliable spin on and his coverage doesn't invite many switchins outside Ferrothorn.

Also Bulky Rain seems SUPER underrated. I think the archtype in general just wasn't touched due to it being tested in XY with rain mechanics and never focused on again. With Swampert-M having bulk and being able to do so much damage in so few turns with no setup, I think there are a great deal of options for bulky rain if it were to be explored. One of the huge advantages bulk rain has over HO rain is you have the time to wear down Ferrothorn and Rotom-wash to kill points. Neither are as good in long fights vs rains because Rotom's SpA isn't that great vs your own bulk on hydro pump and both are eventually getting burned down.

Lastly, Terrakion. needs to honor his debt in writing at least once.
I quit mons. Kappa
 
Gonna post this for starry blanket i didnt just copy and paste

HailFall Tinberz ethanlol
thanks everyone that signed up! you guys have between now and monday (6/13) night EST to write up your posts about whichever pokemon you took (Staraptor / Mega Charizard-Y / Tentacruel).as a reminder:

If you take a test subject, it is expected that you'll post. Your posts don't need to be super lengthy & detailed, but they shouldn't be super short and simple. I'm not gonna put some arbitrary regulation on how many sentences you should have, but you should have at least a small paragraph.
and as a reminder to those unsure of what to post:
Things you can post include (but are not limited to):
  • strategies used
  • how you went about building with this Pokemon
  • general strengths / weaknesses you noticed about the Pokemon
  • if the meta is in favor of the Pokemon or not
  • sets you used with the Pokemon
remember: you aren't limited to these guidelines; they're just here to help in case you aren't sure what to post. if you'd prefer to focus on 1 specific aspect of the pokemon you selected rather than a broad overview, that's totally okay! if you're still lost, try checking out this post by Infernal.


if you didn't sign up but you'd like to post, feel free to do so, but just don't post if you haven't used the pokemon in awhile / at all. also, if you signed up, but you cannot find the time to post, don't worry about it! just please don't do it regularly :x
 
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(srry im doing a little less than usual for this because i need to study for finals)
Staraptor

Strengths and Weaknesses

Staraptor is a terrifying albeit niche wallbreaker in OU. It has a good 120 base Attack stat but this is only part of what makes Staraptor the total nuke it is. Access to 120 BP STAB moves in tandem with a 120 BP coverage move that almost perfectly rounds out its coverage is another large part of what makes Staraptor so terrifying. The final thing that makes Staraptor such a menace is its semi-exclusive ability, reckless, which further boosts its STAB moves and is the final component of what makes this mon so terrifying to try and wall. However, Staraptor has quite a few negative attributes that hold it back. Firstly, Reckless is a Double-Edge(d) sword (hehe) and the recoil damage from it wears Staraptor down very quickly. This in combination with a Stealth Rock weakness, poor defenses, and susceptibility to Rocky Helmet, Rough Skin, and Iron Barbs users is what leads many to call it a "nuke". Staraptor hits stupidly hard but it dies so quickly to residual damage that it struggles to be a reliable wallbreaker and is rarely used outside Birdspam teams.

Set Used
Staraptor @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack

Double-Edge and Brave Bird are Staraptor's dizzyingly powerful STAB moves, with 120 BP and a Reckless boost. Close Combat is Staraptor's coverage move which lets it tear down Rock- and Steel-types that resist it. Finally Quick Attack is used in the last slot to pick off weakened offensive pokemon. U-Turn is an option over Quick Attack, but theres not much Staraptor wants to U-turn on rather than just nuke. Choice Band is Staraptor's best item and is what turns it into the deadly wallbreaker it is. Choice Scarf is an option as well but the type of teams Staraptor fits on nearly always prefer the extra power Choice Band provides. An Adamant nature makes Staraptor hit noticebly harder, but sometimes Jolly is preferred on teams that need Staraptor to be able to outpace threats like Kyurem-B.


Calcs

This is where i would put a team if i wasnt literally terrible at building typespam. Rather than embarrassing myself by posting a team I've decided to put some calcs showing just how insane Staraptor is as a wallbreaker. Enjoy.
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 190-225 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 267-315 (79.2 - 93.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 291-343 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 382-450 (107 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (83.1 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 132+ Def Rotom-W: 279-328 (92 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Mega Scizor: 222-262 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Scizor: 271-321 (96.4 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 272-322 (77.2 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 250-295 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Mega Slowbro: 189-223 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 382-451 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 216+ Def Tangrowth: 462-546 (114.9 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 274-324 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 538-634 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 292-345 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 8 Def Gliscor: 300-354 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 255-301 (60.7 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 313-370 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 152-179 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

It OHKOes basically every offensive mon in the tier so no point in really calcing those. The only relevant mon that walls it afaik is physdef Skarmory.


Partners and Cores

  • +

    Staraptor and talonflame form a potent Birdspam core together, where Staraptor breaks down almost all of Talonflame's common checks with its insane wallbreaking ability, and Talonflame can clean up afterwards while also handling some stuff Staraptor struggles against like Skarmory with Flare Blitz. Quite honestly there should almost always be Talonflame along Staraptor if you choose to use it, if not Talonflame then some other bird.
  • +
    /

    Staraptor should also be paired with a hazard remover, but Latios tends to work best with Staraptor thanks to its ability to check problematic electrics like Mega Manectric that threaten Birdspam. The preferred set is Roost Latios as that maximixes its capability to reliably Defog and handle electrics. Latias can be especially potent paired with Staraptor thanks to its capability to pass a Healing Wish to it and give it more opportunity to wallbreak, but this should only be your choice if the team is already reasonably solid against electrics.
Using Staraptor
Staraptor should be played aggressively, clicking its STAB moves most of the time and dealing insane damage to common Birdspam checks like Rotom-W and Landorus-T. It excels at early game breaking and is effective at decimating defensive cores. It is important that rocks are kept off the field as much as is possible, as to ensure that Staraptor lasts long enough to hand out the most pain possible to the opposing team. After Staraptor has exhausted its wallbreaking potential and fainted, you should attempt to initiate a sweep with your other bird (provided that Staraptor was sucessful in doing its job).
 
Band Staraptor + Dugtrio is one of the best cores you can utilize Staraptor with. It's most viable check in Tyranitar can be a large pain for it granted it's not long term but most long term checks are bad in the meta anyways, such as Rhyperior. Also Staraptor should always have U-Turn assuming this is choice sets we're talking about, Close Combat isn't a necessity on Band as opposed to the other moves mentioned in the core above. You would use it on Scarf however but this set would sacrifice Quick Attack so it would have room then. U-Turn alleviates a lot of pressure in prediction games that go into using Staraptor at times. I'm not too big into rules but these are a couple of things I know from using Staraptor a bit that seem to maintain consistency throughout builds I've made with it.

Birdspam has largely become a really vague and arbitrary concept. It'll be rare to see an actual bird spam team more so you'll witness cores of birds being utilized. A good example is a bird that can threaten TTar + Staraptor (or secondary bird) so something such as Hawlucha + Staraptor for example. Staraptor is pretty niche already and you're sacrificing the wall-breaker bird slot for something a bit more viable. It's good for a surprise factor but it's never a go to mon as a staple of a team more so a supporter.

I haven't seen a consistent Tentacruel team for about a year and a half and Charizard-Y is super linear so not a whole lot to say here.
 


First look


120 Base Attack is pretty good coupled with Reckless and some high Base Powered moves that have pretty good coverage. Decent speed tier of 100 which is supposedly decent for a Wallbreaker. This also allows it to run a Scarf set which imo is outclassed very much by other scarfers and talon. Hence I went with the Band set only because that’s its only real niche.

Team

I have 2 teams that are supposed to be built around Staraptor and Empoleon, my first 2 pokemon. I don’t actually find these 2 teams that good but they are built with a purpose to show off Staraptor’s wallbreaking potential.



Starl (Staraptor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack


Pipi (Empoleon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Flash Cannon
- Defog


Creamer VI (Goodra) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Muddy Water
- Earthquake


Thirsty Hippo (Hippowdon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind


Anger Control (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack


Caleb (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 84 SpD / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Baton Pass
- Heal Bell




Starl (Staraptor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack


Pipi (Empoleon) (M) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Agility


Bloom (Venusaur-Mega) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis


John Lewis (Clefable) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled


Bloo (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Defog


Melting Point (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock


The first team functions by birdspam, but it is a poorly built birdspam team that should be able to be improved quite significantly. What I realized from this team is that most of the time I was relying on the fat mons to win and Staraptor did not have a major role in many battles.

The second team was supposed to be a Staraptor + SubPetaya Empoleon (yh I like Gen 4 sets). Goal of this team was to weaken stuff that Empoleon can’t beat such as Rotom-W with Staraptor then clean with Empoleon. Unfortunately, my imagination was utterly wrecked by reality. SubPetaya Empoleon is just bad in this meta and so is Staraptor.

Thoughts

I was extremely disappointed with Staraptor. First, the obvious thing that anyone can point out is that Staraptor is a pure kamikaze pilot that crashes and doesn’t usually get to live after hitting twice. Still, I was quite ready for this, preparing hazard control etc. This didn’t stop me from being disappointed about the second bit. It might sound weird, but I was really upset about Staraptor’s damage output. As a kamikaze pilot it should be hitting real hard but no, you really need to weaken its targets before it can secure a KO on them. It doesn’t get past the real fat walls like how I expected it should. Also it is frail and so you will need to pivot it in, which I find really troublesome and not worth it. Tbh you are better of running another wallbreaker instead.

Metagame vs Staraptor

As much as I hate to admit it, Staraptor is pretty bad in this meta, where there are many physically strong mons bringing about strong physical walls that Staraptor hates facing. Residential damage from rocks and sand also makes its life really hard.

Conclusion

While Staraptor is cool and all, it just doesn’t fit the bill for a good wallbreaker right now. Maybe one day it’ll be blessed with a Mega and soar to great heights but for now, it is mostly outclassed. I’d always encourage people to try it out – it’s for the experience, but I doubt our Gen 4 starter bird can be used effectively much.
 
welp last time doing this :')

the posts being added to archive are this post on staraptor by HailFall, this post on mega charizard y by Camilas, and this post on tentacruel by Ajwf

thanks paper dreams for helping me pick the posts to archive. remember: the archived posts are simply the posts that best summarize the pokemon for future reference. not every post needs to summarize the pokemon; some people may just want to center their posts around one aspect, and that's totally okay. you don't need to follow the guidelines perfectly to post here; they're just there to guide you a bit if you're unsure of what to post.

overall i think this project was successful; it went on for 21 consecutive weeks with consistently strong activity for the most part. the main reason i decided to end it here is because i want to end it strong, and i don't want to reuse pokemon myself. the latter point is the only way i could really continue this project further, so since it got to that point, it makes more sense for someone else to pick it up and start fresh. these posts take quite a bit of time to write out, so thanks to those of you who were regulars in this project ^^. additionally, i'd like to thank the people who helped me with picking the pokemon, picking the posts, and more... specifically paper dreams :3c.

this project will now be handed over to Terrakion.; he will post the new thread... eventually :^).
 
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