Project OU Weekly Research | v2 hosted by Terrakion. coming soon!

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thanks everyone that signed up! you guys have between now and monday (5/30) night EST to write up your posts about whichever pokemon you took (victini / mega alakazam / politoed). as a reminder:
If you take a test subject, it is expected that you'll post. Your posts don't need to be super lengthy & detailed, but they shouldn't be super short and simple. I'm not gonna put some arbitrary regulation on how many sentences you should have, but you should have at least a small paragraph.
and as a reminder to those unsure of what to post:
Things you can post include (but are not limited to):
  • strategies used
  • how you went about building with this Pokemon
  • general strengths / weaknesses you noticed about the Pokemon
  • if the meta is in favor of the Pokemon or not
  • sets you used with the Pokemon
remember: you aren't limited to these guidelines; they're just here to help in case you aren't sure what to post. if you'd prefer to focus on 1 specific aspect of the pokemon you selected rather than a broad overview, that's totally okay! if you're still lost, try checking out this post by Infernal.

if you didn't sign up but you'd like to post, feel free to do so, but just don't post if you haven't used the pokemon in awhile / at all. also, if you signed up, but you cannot find the time to post, don't worry about it! just please don't do it regularly :x

for those of you who post about politoed / rain, please mention in your post whether you enjoy focusing more on a playstyle as a whole or just a single pokemon n_n
 
Mega Alakazam




Strengths and Weaknesses

Mega Alakazam is quite possibly the best revenge killer in the OverUsed tier. Its incredible Speed and Special Attack stats are fearsome, the former being on par with and the latter being only 5 points lower than that of Deoxys Attack. Along with amazing offensive stats, Mega Alakazam has an interesting and useful ability, Trace, which allows it to copy the foe's ability and use it against them. Notable examples include tracing Swift Swim or Sand Rush in order to check weather sweepers, tracing Regenerator off of Amoonguss or Slowbro, and rarely even tracing Adaptability off of Mega Beedrill or Sheer Force off Nidoking or Conkledurr. Mega Alakazam's movepool is solid, giving it the tools it needs to preform its job effectively. Unfortunately, Mega Alakazam has exceedingly poor bulk, barely having the capacity to take even the weakest of hits. Along with this, Mega Alakazam is susceptible to pursuit trapping, which has been rising in viability as of late. That being said however, this does not negate the extreme positive attributes Mega Alakazam brings to the table.

Set Used
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

This set is pretty straightforward. Psychic is Mega Alakazam's STAB move and it hits exceptionally hard. The next chosen move is Focus Blast, which hits the Steel- and Dark-types that resist Psychic even with its low accuracy. Next is Shadow Ball which does good damage to the Psychic-type mons that resist Psychic, while providing a way to hit things like Mega Sableye or the rare Doublade. The last slot is interesting. Encore is what the analysis recommends as it helps to break down bulkier pokemon, but my experience makes me believe that Substitute is a far superior option. It eases prediction immensely, gives Mega Alakazam a much greater chance to escape pursuit trappers, and allows Mega Alakazam to avoid Prankster Thunder Wave after tracing Prankster for itself. Calm Mind can also work to boost Mega Alakazam's Special Attack to unreal levels, but it rarely gets the chance to set up.


Building Around Mega Alakazam
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Focus Blast

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Endure

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 96 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Stun Spore

Here's a team I made around the Zam-Keld-Pursuit trapper core that's usually used alongside spikes stacking. Mega Alakazam is the pokemon this team was made to support, and spikes stacking is a great way to pull that off. Zam appreciates getting as many OHKOes as possible, so getting the ~25% every time something wants to come in helps it out a lot. Firstly, Keldeo serves to handle the darks (especially pursuit trappers) that can put Mega Alakazam into awkward positions a lot. Its a reliable switchin to these that can also dent common Keld switchins like Latis and Torn for Zam to clean up later. I added Rocky Helmet Grachomp next in order to punish the priority users Zam hates with a passion. Endure is a bit of an odd choice but it was used to Get a good 75% total on Mega Medicham that try to hit Zam with Fake Out or Bullet Punch from the priority hit, endured Ice Punch, and second Ice Punch. Combined with spikes, this allows Medi to go down fairly quickly which this team needs. You can honestly run Lando-T here too but it really makes Medi incredibly frustrating to handle, especially paired with a VoltTurn core. SpD Skarm was added next in the next slot to give me a way to handle fairies which kind of shit on this team as well as the Spikes I mentioned earlier that help out Zam so much. Next choice was ScarfTar which gave me a way to pursuit trap Starmie and Latis while also letting me reliably revenge kill mons like Mega Pinsir, SpD Talonflame, Thundy, and a few others I cant think of off the top of my head. Finally I added an Amoonguss becasue i cant fucking build a team without one it gave me a switchin to Keld for obvious reasons, and Azu because Aqua Jet threatens Zam but Chomp cant exactly come in on it. This team is very weak to stall so watch out for that.

Partners and Cores

  • +

    Pretty simple. Mega Alakazam is threatened out by certain offensive priority users like darks such as Weavile and Bisharp, as well as mons like Mega Scizor. Keld helpfully removes all of these with ease.
  • +
    /

    Mega Alakazam + Spikes is a very well known core for good reason. Spikes support lets Alakazam nail numerous OHKOes it otherwise would not be able to and wear down its checks alarmingly quickly, while also improving Mega Alakazam's matchup against more defensive teams.
  • +

    Mega Alakazam and Tank Chomp work nicely together as Tank Chomp's combination of Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet makes it incredibly good at punishing priority from the likes of Mega Scizor, Talonflame, Mega Lopunny, and the likes. Garchomp also provides hazard support which as i have said before, Mega Alakazam truly appreciates.

Using Mega Alakazam
Early game Mega Alakazam should be played as a revenge killer. Only send it out if you know you can get the kill. Focus on getting up hazards and racking up passive damage. Do not ever switch Mega Alakazam directly into atttacks as even the weakest of hits can OHKO it due to its abysmal bulk. If using Substitute, Mega Alakazam should set it on predicted switches or while pokemon like Bisharp which may attempt to Sucker Punch rather than knock off or Pursuit. Once safely behind a sub, Mega Alakazam can be played a little more recklessly, having the shield in front of it that allows it to take a hit from pokemon like Azumarill and retaliate hard. Late game after the opponents have been sufficiently weakened, you can send Mega Alakazam out on a free switch to utilitze its devistating cleaning potential.

Verdict

This is a little tough for me. Objectively speaking i would have to say the metagame is not in favor of Mega Alakazam but its still an excellent pokemon. Its just that the rise of pursuit trapping and fatter teams which Mega Alakazam unfortunately isn't quite as good against makes me hesitant to say that its at its best right now. Still though, Mega Alakazam is by no means bad and theres still plenty of reason to use it. Poorer matchup against defensive teams can be improved tremendously with spikes support which i feel like is truly Mega Alakazam's biggest saving grace.
 


Analysis


Victini has nice stats, a decent moveset and rather great versatility. 100/100/100/100/100/100 stats allow it to go banded, scarfed, mixed and special. V-Create is just a crazy 180 bp move that usually does insane amounts of damage to anything that doesn’t resist it. However, the prevalence of bulky grounds does impact its ability to sweep/wallbreak. Hence, I went for the special set, widely regarded as a lure:

[set]

Wow. Two 70%, one 85% and one 95% accurate moves. It’s gonna miss a lot right? Nope. Victini’s ability in Victory Star increases its moves’ accuracy by 1.1x, which is quite a lot. While using this thing, I don’t remember missing a Focus Blast or a Blue Flare. I missed a few Thunders though but they were at times when it didn’t matter. So, Blue Flare as STAB - with a tasty 20% chance to burn, Thunder to hit waters, even being able to hit some bulky waters relatively hard, Glaciate to complete BoltBeam and hit those TankChomps and Def Lando-Ts, and finally Focus Blast for Heatran and TTar, two relatively popular mons in the current metagame. I put Expert Belt so you can bluff choice sometimes and also keep health high. I run timid so I can hit as many things as possible, which I feel is extremely important for this mon.

Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Glaciate vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 326-389 (78.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 341-403 (89.2 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 250-295 (77.3 - 91.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 298-350 (73.9 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 350-418 (102.6 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 262-310 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 242-286 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Victini Thunder vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 288-341 (75 - 88.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Usage Tips

You won’t believe the number of people who switch in stuff like Heatran and TTar or staying in with TankChomp and Def Lando-T unknowingly. To increase its luring capabilities, you could play mind games with your opponent and be like “Who leads Chomp…” to increase their chances of staying in. My advice is to refrain from playing extremely aggressively and just keep going for the safest moves as most of them are of high base power meaning you’ll do a minimum of 25% if the foe doesn’t resist your move most of the time bar the fat blob with its name spelt as C-h-a-n-s-e-y.

Team

I wouldn’t call this team great or what. It’s more of decent to mediocre I guess. This team has a special meaning to me as a few years back in primary school my friends and I formed a ‘Council’ called Victory Star with Victini as our mascot. We are still in the same High School now if anyone was wondering. So, the teambuilding process was just me Whatsapping the 4 other members the list of OU mons and telling them to give me a mon they liked from that list, then I just chose a last mon to fit into the team.



Mascot (Victini) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Thunder
- Glaciate
- Focus Blast


Jay (Dragonite) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed


CQ (Excadrill) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin


Jerry (Garchomp) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance


En Shao (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower


KJ (Altaria-Mega) (M) @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 164 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Heal Bell


The goal of this team is to sweep with Dragonite, which is not that easy as most of us know. Victini helps by luring bulky grounds bar hippo. Victini usually gets 1 or 2 kills against offense which is quite nice. I have got up to 5 kills with it lol.

Metagame vs Victini

Victini’s band and scarf sets are pretty bad in this metagame. They don’t make much of an impact in most games. This was the reason why I turned to using the lure set, which doesn’t care that much about whether the metagame suits it or not. Great coverage is one of the best pull-factors of this set and if you’re gonna use a Victini this is the go-to set. However, if everyone uses this set, it reduces its surprise factor. I guess it’s like a cycle, and maybe its band and scarf sets will be the surprise set in the future. I can’t really make a conclusion on this as its different sets are able to cover one another’s weaknesses rather well.

Wrap up

In my opinion, the best way to use Victini is to manipulate your opponents’ mind. Let them guess the set correctly early enough, and Victini is not going to do much. On the other hand, if they get its set wrong, the consequences could be dire for them. It is quite a fun mon to play with, and I had a great time experimenting with it.
 
Hailfall M-Alakazam isn't in favor of the meta because you're using that
worthy set call Sub M-Kazam. Please use Calm Mind, thanks.


Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Roost
- Calm Mind

Crawdaunt @ Lum Berry
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance

Victini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Psychic
- Glaciate
- Focus Blast

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 240 HP / 64 SpD / 204 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Taunt

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Stun Spore
- Sleep Powder
This is my Specs Tini team, as in the only one I'd ever use Victini in a semi-decent fashion to begin with. Victini is kind of awful so when it shows in team preview people don't know what to expect until it actually hits you. After that you can play around Victini fine. Any set that isn't CB or Specs is normally overrated as hell / unviable and its role compression as a fire type is kind of useless from a defensive position barring niche scenarios to myself. Normally you would just take into account that Victini is going to be hard hitting with the two sets mentioned before so utilizing that for another partner should be the goal. Go hard or go home mentality you can call it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-360874822 - Against bulkier builds, did exactly what I wanted it to do, keeping constant pressure so there is little to no breathing room.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-363538733 - Not this team but showing the idea of Dual Physical Dragon Dancers + Specs Tini. The aggressiveness is what should be emphasized with Victini. Excuse Peli for being dumb end game, normally he's the one beating me.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-363526159 - This one is kind of hard to find the point. The main point to take away is one of the biggest reasons why Victini can be awful at times. You need stuff like M-Diancie removed to make it work and my goal was basically that most of the game. After that I kind of figured the slower stuff would keel over.

Things I usually think about is adding a couple of lures or secondary wallbreakers. Everything that couldn't be broken by Victini will probably be broken by Crawdaunt is what I figured. While the two together may not be able to tackle the meta-game well by themselves normally a backbone as seen with team can usually keep issues like offense at bay.

I'm not really keen on running Band Tini with the Lando-Ts around and Victini in general cause of Tyranitar. I did like trying new stuff when I was more motivated to build and play seeing as how the numerous idiotic statements in OU Forum on why something was good or bad usually came from being unexplored or simply uneducated. 4/5 times you'll know the Tini set from team composition similar to the whole is it Char-Y or Char-X thing (lol...) so normally you're better off using Band or Specs and firing off shots like a monkey behind a keyboard acting like you're having a relevant thought process.
 
Alakazam Mega

Strengths
  • Is the fastest unboosted pokémon and a sky high Special Attack;
  • Have an acceptible coverage, and a good STAB;
  • Access to moves like Encore and Substitute, to give it free turns;
  • Trace isn't so good, but sometimes is useful to get abilities like Prankster, Sand Rush / Swift Swim or Adaptability, or get Natural Cure from Chansey to heal a status, there are a lot of useful abilities like Magic Bounce, Intimidate, etc.

Weaknesses
  • Poor bulky, being easily revenge killed;
  • Is mainly checked by Steel and Dark types, cuz Focus Blast isn't an accurate move and many Steel types can live it and return many damage to MegaZam;
  • Is easily KOed by Pursuit trappin'
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Encore / Substitute
MegaZam have Psychic, its main STAB, Focus Blast deals many damage to Steel and Dark type, but isn't an accurate move and miss a lot, Shadow Ball hit Psychic types 2HKOing many times. Encore / Substitute give it free turns. If the opponent use Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, Sucker Punch, etc, it can get a free turn thanks to Substitute. If the opponent used a support move in the last turn, Zam can get a free turn with Encore

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Encore

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Sludge Bomb

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Iron Head

Breloom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore
- Rock Tomb

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

Using MegaAlakazam
Mega Alakazam is an awesome revenge killer, use it is just to kill threats. Beside this Alakazam, can be used sometimes to get key abilities like Natural Cure (if statused) or Intimidate and switch, but MegaZam is only an awesom revenge killer, not anything beside this, and can only play safely if get the KO.

Meta against MegaAlakazam
Pursuit is each type more common, common Scarfs like Landorus-Therian and Keldeo are less common, but still common and the stall rise since Hoopa U is gone, this turn the meta unfavorable to Alakazam-Mega, but is still an awesome Revenge Killer and hit really strong due to its sky high Attack base. Teams without any Scarf won't have anything faster than Alakazam Mega, and it can OHKO many things thanks to its coverage, if used safely, can be a real powerful offensive threat, it only fears Special Walls, priority and Speed Boosted Pokémon.
 

Sun

Who cares if one more light goes out? Well I do...
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

mega zam is a great Wallbreaker, has an incredible ability and allowing it to cope weathers offense (sand and rain) copying the ability of abusers, or can we copy abilities like magic bounce or sheer force making it immune to twave and from the conditions status, or to increase the strength of his moves; despite his incredible speed and special attack, mega zam, is fragile to physical blows because it has a low defense; it appreciates slow momentum generators as a teammate, as a defensive Landorus-t, rotom-w, which can provide you with a free entry in the battle, also these two control threats like scarf Exca, talonflame, Pinsir-mega, Scizor, who give trouble zam ; zam also appreciates the presence of strong Wallbreaker support for dark types, as Keldeo even Tornadus-Therian is a good partner, because it can put pressure to threats such as scarf Keldeo, Bisharp (if he runs superpower).
AoA,The most common set of mega zam, its main moves are: psychic, obviously the stab most clicked by mega zam, it is useful to eliminate fight, poison type, and also thanks to the immense special attack can do enormous damage neutral, then we focus blast, this move is mainly used to eliminate Heatran, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Weavile, Hydreigon and Skarmory, the next it encore, this move is really fantastic against the set-up sweepers, but also puts a lot of pressure to stall builds, finally shadow ball, this move is used to hit the bulky psychic as slowbro, latios, Latias, and is also a buonna move that inflicts neutral damage, other options are taunt, useful to beat Clefable, chansey, another is dazzling gleam, if you really hate focus miss, this is the right choice. I think the metagame is not in favor to mega Zam, because some pursuit trappers are common now, and fatty builds can put pressure on it, but generally is a good pokemon.

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Ice Beam

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Encore
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Secret Sword

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Clear Smog

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split


i built this around mega zam+sand, the core needs a bisharp , weavile and mega lopunny check, so i add scarf keld, it is also a good check for kyurem, after that, specs keldeo mega alt, was really hard to deal with, so i add a defensive pivot as amoonguss, it is also generate momentum with spore, finally i need a exca and lando counter, so i add rotom-w, whic is really cool because can check also azumarill, i hope you like this team, good evening all :toast:
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
tumblr_lub2dbJZ5Z1qcm0wfo1_500.gif

Politoed, The Frog Pokemon
  • strategies used​
Politoed is exclusively seen on Rain teams, as it's Hidden Ability, Drizzle, allows it to set up Rain each time it is brought into battle, making itself and Rain as a playstyle viable. Politoed works best as a support Pokemon on Rain builds because it's offensive stats are okay but not great, and it wants to keep itself alive to set up Rain. Politoed's bulk is also pretty decent, especially his special bulk, which allows him to survive hits as strong as stuff like Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt at full health.​
  • how you went about building with this Pokemon​
As said before, Politoed is seen only on Rain teams, as they use it's niche in Drizzle to the fullest. As such, Pokemon that can use the Rain to their advantage, mainly Swift Swim users like Kingdra but also Pokemon with moves like Hurricane such as Tornadus-Therian, partner up the best with Politoed. A defensive backbone, such as Ferrothorn, is also good to tank hits and set up hazards. Today I'll be showcasing my favorite Rain team, a Rain team built around Mega Heracross, which is pretty cool on Rain because it checks threats like Bisharp and Serperior, and threatens walls that hurt Rain attackers, such as Chansey and Ferrothorn. I added the obligatory core of Politoed and Kingdra, which add the Rain setter and the best Rain sweeper in OU. Ferrothorn was added to check some major threats to Rain teams, such as offensive Electric-types and Dragon-types, while also providing Stealth Rock and benefitting from the Rain weakening random HP Fires. Raikou may seem odd on a build like this, but I chose it for a bit of role compression in checking Flying-types, Water-types, and to a lesser extent Electric-types (Mainly Mega Manectric) while also being a nice win condition or breaker with Calm Mind. Tornadus-Therian adds another Rain abuser with his obscenely powerful Life Orb Hurricanes (100% accuracy in Rain!!!) as well as another way to break Chansey with Knock Off and Superpower. This and Raikou also adds a bit of VoltTurn to chip away at threats and get the other members in safely.​
  • general strengths / weaknesses you noticed about the Pokemon​
Politoed's strengths are in being a great support Pokemon due to Drizzle and his many support options, such as Encore. It's also decently powerful, as Rain-boosted Scalds can do a lot to frailer Pokemon. It can also check a good amount of threats to Rain teams, such as Volcanion. However, for a bulky Pokemon, it's defenses aren't so top-notch compared to other Pokemon such as Suicune, so it can be hard to check threats like Keldeo and Talonflame all at once with Politoed, and it's only form of recovery is in Rest, as it needs Damp Rock to keep the Rain up to the fullest. It also suffers from being weak to common types such as Grass and Electric.​
  • if the meta is in favor of the Pokemon or not​
You can't really talk about how the meta is in favor of Politoed as a Pokemon, as Politoed is really one-dimensional as it sets up Rain and that's basically it. You have to talk about Rain as a playstyle, as Politoed helps support the Pokemon of that playstyle. Now, Rain isn't the best weather out there (That would go to Sand rn.) as it is pretty matchup-based, being good against some offense builds (It also like Sand being common as it takes advantage of the Ground-type mons), but not so great against bulkier builds as they have the few mons that can take Rain-boosted hits, such as Chansey and Ferrothorn. Sand can usually get through these bulkier mons due to the power and set-up moves that Sand mons carry, such as Swords Dance on Excadrill and Mega Garchomp. It also is always hard to check some mons that threaten Rain, such as Mega Manectric, without resorting to a mon like Seismitoad and Mega Swampert. Rain still is a fun and versatile playstyle, as while it does force you to use Politoed and usually Kingdra, you still have room to pick a Mega that likes the Rain (Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Mega Swampert,etc.) as well as the other Rain abusers (Kabutops, Seismitoad, Omastar, Volcanion, etc.), which makes it truly a versatile and creative playstyle at heart, which I really like. And some recent events, such as Volcanion, have proven to be good for Rain, as Volcanion helps Rain with one of it's biggest threats, Ferrothorn, and it's Steam Eruptions are stupidly powerful under Rain, although it is another thorn in Rain's side that it is immune to the Water moves that Rain mons like to spam. Overall, I think that the meta isn't quite in favor of Rain as it was before, with bulkier playstyles popping up over offense, and some other trends being unfavorable for it, but it still has a good amount of perks over Sand and is definitely worth a try if you haven't used it yet, as even with it's flaws, it's probably one of the most solid playstyles to ladder with, along with stall.
  • The Team I Used

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP / 136 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 1 Atk / 30 Def
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 76 Atk / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Knock Off

 
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-I'll call you Nike-

Stranth!

-Victini hits VERY hard, it has some of the hardest hitting moves in the game, and some very slick coverage. V-Create and Bolt Strike create a nice coverage combo, while it also has access to some other unique moves I experimented with but didn't really get far with (Fusion Flare and Fusion Bolt, both get more powerful when used after the other. Interesting, but ultimately a gimmick) Importantly it's got Grass Knot, which helps taking down water/ground types

-Great all around stats, like similar mythic pokemon in Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi, Victini has 100s all around, making it somewhere between defensive and offensive. Technically able to pull off both but only with the right investment.

-Good enough movepool, helped out by Victory Star which improves accuracy, great for moves like V-Create and Bolt Strike, which normally wouldn't be sure shots, if you wanna be even more chancy you can go with Focus Blast (I think it goes up to 80%, not the best but usable.)

Downsides

-unfortunate typing. Fire is great and bad at the same time. While fire moves hit very hard, it also makes you weak to stealth rock, on top of that, its 2ndary typing is Psychic, which makes it vulnerable to knock off spam and pursuit traps from the likes of tyranitar and bisharp

-V-Create is limiting. I mean you COULD use Flare Blitz, but there's not really a reason to other than Bisharp. Bisharp outspeeds and KOs a standard Victini after a V-Create, because it drops your speed after you use it. V-Create hits really really hard, but is not without drawbacks

-100 base stats are so last generation~ I mean yes, 600 bst is awesome, but victini is in a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none" spot. And unlike it's cousins it doesn't have a useful defensive typing, stealth rocks, or EVERY SINGLE TM MOVE to help it define a role. V-Create does however put it solidly into offense roles.

Teambuilding

I built a lot of teams with this pokemon, I'm not that good at teambuilding, but the basic strategy I went for was this: Incorporate Victini into a Fire/Water/Grass offensive core, and back it up with at least one Steel and Fairy type to help deal with tyranitar and talonflame.

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Brick Break

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Superpower
- Play Rough

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

I used Victini alongside Venusaur to blast holes in opponents teams and to wear down defensive steel and fairy types. Garchomp can setup rocks, but can also sweep once Vic and Venu have done their job. Choice Scarf Excadrill is a rapid spinner, Azumaril takes care of my Water and Fairy types. It deals with Tyranitar really easily and can obliterate talonflame with one CB Aquajet. Conk is kinda an experiment. I just really wanted a fighting type and Guts seemed useful to have, he can absorb any status and just keep firing off moves, though Machamp actually might be better at this job come to think of it. YMMV, a dark type would also fit really nicely in the last slot as having something to pursuit trap Lati@s would also be really useful, I didn't feel like I needed it because I had other things which could deal with it in theory and I mostly see Defog variants anyways which I'm not really 'afraid' of. They're only gonna come in to defog which means I can get some momentum out of them. Sub Victini is also kinda an experiment, I wanted to see if I could pull it off as I felt like it would be unexpected and allow victini to get some extra KOs. It also lets Victini beat scarf-tar if it gets a sub up while it switches in. Have a replay!

You could also use Choice Band or Mixed sets which you can find in the strategy dex. I also tried out the Flare Bolt combo with a little success. I only got the combo off once and it didn't hit nearly as hard as I thought it would.

In Closing~

Victini is a cool and strong pokemon, unfortunately the resurection of scarf-tar has meant doom for many psychic types and Victini is no different. Still, V-Create hits hard enough that using him can still be worth it. He can obliterate a lot of threats in this metagame without a problem and everyone is afraid of V-Create, so I guess that's a plus, especially if you're using a bait or specs set as people will be switching in their def counters to eat the V-Create
 
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Sun

Who cares if one more light goes out? Well I do...
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus


Victini is a great Wallbreaker, has a great offensive typing, and an incredible Movest, which includes a lot of coverage, has good speed in this metagame, but it is very difficult to control, because the truth of moves makes it very unpredictable, the most used are set. band, this set shows the strength of Wallbreaker himself, hitting really hard on v created, also affects strongly the bulky waters with bolt strike, and strikes Heatran with brick break, is also a momentum generator, learning u-turn becomes dangerous because it can bring in the pursuit trappers who put pressure slowbro-mega, latios, mega Latias. another very good set is Victini scarf, its function is that of revenge killer for offensive build, usually runs a set similar to the band, but it can also have the ice coverage variant to beat Gliscor, lando-t, tankchomp, Finally can play the role of stallbreaker using e.belt, usually runs mixed with e.ball, bolt or thunderbolt strike, to hit better Alomomola, V- create and Focus blast or Brick break, this set is able to address many defensive core as mega Sableye + skarm + chansey or mega Sableye + quag or alomomola. Good parters are obviously wallbreakers that help Tini against the dark, ghost, ground and rock types, as Keldeo, mega zam (which also beats the weather builds), tyranitar. The metagame is not a favor to Victini because dark types and water types and sand builds are very common now, he can not be a very dangerous threat to the teams that run now, because these usually have a check for him, also his weakness to the hazards makes it dependent on a hazard remover, and many of these are the pursuit bait.

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Bolt Strike
- Glaciate

Keldeo-Resolute @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Encore

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin


This is a fu BO built around Scarf Tini + Resttalk Keld and Sand, this is a really good core, he can pressure almost half metagame, resttalk deo help vs bisharp, weavile and stall match up, chople berry ttar help me to has a better match up vs torn-t, mega Zam. gengar, sand rush balloon exca is the hazard remover and the revenge killer, i choose to put balloon because i was really weak to others sand team, SD is fine, because helps me to deal ewith tankchomp, offensive lando-t, finally , since my team was really weak to Rain and pinsir-mega(i cant really switch into it) i add rotom-w and mega zam, these are very good to helps vs these threats, also zam is another good revenge killer to sand teams, and can deal with setup-sweepers using encore. i hope you like this team, good evening all :pimp:
 
i gave this an extra day to make sure people had a little more time to post, but i forgot to tag people and mention that T_T. owell... anyways, closing!

the posts being added to archive are this post on victini by AM, this post on mega alakazam by HailFall, and this post on politoed / rain by Cheryl.

thanks paper dreams for helping me pick the posts to archive. remember: the archived posts are simply the posts that best summarize the pokemon for future reference. not every post needs to summarize the pokemon; some people may just want to center their posts around one aspect, and that's totally okay. you don't need to follow the guidelines perfectly to post here; they're just there to guide you a bit if you're unsure of what to post.

~​

week #20

STALL | STALL | STALL
even though there was only 1 rain / politoed post last week, i wanna try out focusing on a playstyle itself rather than selecting pokemon. i've been meaning to do it for awhile, and the rain thing was supposed to act as a test for this heh ;~;.

basically, you can post whatever you want pertaining to the playstyle. you can talk about specific pokemon and their roles on stall, how stall fares in the meta, how to break stall, a stall team you built yourself, a framework for building stall teams, etc.. there is no length requirement for these posts! if you wanna just post about 1 specific mon (blissey for example), then feel free to do so. you can post whatever you want pertaining to stall.

anyways; this is just stall. this time around you don't need to post "in" or anything; you simply make your post and that's it. you have between now and 6/6 to post.

happy posting ^^

edit: also wanna make it clear that this is an "experiment", so if there aren't any posts / there are very few posts, i'll not do these moving forward. also, i'd appreciate it if those of you who participate mention whether you like the idea of playstyle-focused weeks or not n_n.
 
Alright so this is my kind of deal. I'll try to keep my ramblings away from shit that's niche or off projects for me and try to keep this as organized as possible. Consider this largely a 'beginner's guide to non-sable stall' because going any more indepth would kill more than the fucking four hours I should've been sleeping for. Thanks starry blanket for the link, I've literally wasted my life doing this.


So stall's straight up objective is 'To wall off threats in the metagame'. It is, as far as we know, impossible to achieve this so we amend that to 'as many threats as possible'. Because of the impossibility to wall off all threats in the meta, the current sentiment on stall is 'bring a setup sweeper/pursuit trapper'. This is the old traditional belief of Semi-Stall, but it is very realistic to ask this wincon to be bulkier and handle some threats up until that point. Specifically, this is why Bro-M can be found on some stall teams, or Mega Altaria.

Challenges:
This is essentially what I think you should be focusing on as you put together a team of fatmons not using Sable. I think the mold for sable is so thoroughly out there that there's no use talking about it. The build to a sable team also looks relatively similar to the current process I use, but probably has philosophical differences in utilizing/playing the team. These are generally the cause of shifts in the team building processes and but the following aren't all (I kinda use "current metagame trends" to encompass that).

The absence of Aegislash: Aegi's leaving brought in three hugely powerful stall breakers that continue to persist in the meta (Gard-M, Hera-M, Medi-M). Noticeably, only one mon (Aegi's pre-evol, Doublade) will handle all of them at once. To wall off all of them, you have two options: Wall off each piece individually (tailor fit your team to hold Slowbro to take Medi or Unaware Clefable w/phys def to take Hera) or take doublade as an off mon with the sole goal of taking out these wall breakers.

The presence of Mega Sableye: Like it or not (I don't), Sable changes the way OTHER STALLS must be built because a Magic Bounce defensive mon immediately becomes a huge threat when playing 100 turn games. But add in his popularity and archtype and there's a few more takeways here. First off, you MUST have a way to clear sable AND his team, normally in the same mon. The team itself is so supportive of MSable that it in itself has a lot of holes that are easy to exploit if he isn't there (he's the main hazard/status/taunt block). This is generally where I think Stall can (read: Normally has to) get really niche since Magic bounce is SO rough for stall. Just as some ideas to help with Mega Sable:
  • Fairy Types are obviously the best option. Just very few that mesh well. The issue with them is you have to also take on Skarm and Amoongus.
  • Skill Swap (Cresselia w/toxic mainly, since everything else passes a really good ability)
  • Mold Breaker (Ampharos-M and Gyarados-M. Defensive Excadrill is bad but offensive mold breaker will work if it meshes). Definitely most niche of the options, but Gyara can use Taunt and Amph can run toxic on a rest set.
  • Synchronize Mew (Probably my favorite, since you just bounce toxic and Sable gets poisoned anyways)
  • Fire Types, especially heatran. If you can find it in you to solely devote a mon to shielding off a few special threats and Talonflame, Heatran's stall breaker set is stupid effective vs sable teams. Spdef Talonflame, too. This is BY FAR the most exceptional way to do it because fire types also run the standard sable core pretty well (only one fire resist).
So the second part of Sable is that the metagame has and is continuously adapting to him. The core is getting progressively/slowly weaker due to this adaptation and because of this, we CAN read what adaptations are generally used (read: Medicham now runs bolt beam because why bother trying to carry a psychic move vs sableye? Also bolt beam). Adaptations like Mega Hera being used less. Mew's stall breaker set is almost not seen. My belief is that the longer this goes on, the stronger a prevalence of stall breaker tran will become simply because the current iterations don't handle stall breaker tran well.

Earthquake Meta and It's Adaptations: This is basically the aka for "Current metagame focus". Sometimes it's rain, sometimes people really like balance. Basically this meta is a reminder that Skarmory is really good on stall. There's almost nothing more to it. But if your stall team does not have at least one resist + a resist/immune for every eq weakness you have, it probably sucks. Which also means you can only really have 1 EQ weak since you don't want to double down on grass or flying (and tropius doesn't count as bonus points). I guess the most major adaptation this brings is you generally don't use a rapid spinner. Skarmory, Mandibuzz or very rarely like mega latias are your best choices because of this ground adaptation.

Pursuit and Trapping: Specifically pursuit since it has picked up so much popularity (Weavile/TTar being huge bearers of bad news). Anyways, right now targeting out chansey or skarm from under Sable's nose is really nice. And since Chansey and Skarm end up everywhere, you're also picking them off other stall teams. Pursuit is pretty much unavoidable (can't cheese it with shed shell, chansey doesn't get BP) but build with it in mind. Don't bring that many (read: generally 1 max, including chansey) that can be pursuit trapped. And Zone is kinda on the rise due to above point (EQ meta) and fairies killing sable. You can sometimes just outplay this but there's a lot of stress on you to continuously do so. Risk vs reward, but I generally just run shed shell.

General Abilities/Roles to Invest in:

Stall should have the following tools universally:
  • Access to Burns (Scald users like Slowbro, Quagsire. Wisp Users like ZardX, Heatran, Sableye. Wincons like Talonflame).
  • Stealth Rock (Chansey, Skarmory generally sub-optimal but often available. There are an absolute insane amount of SR users)
  • Defog/Rapid Spin (Normally Skarmory. Occasionally Tentacruel, RT Starmie. Rarely Mandibuzz, Latias. Don't use Togekiss).
  • Heal Bell (Normally Chansey. Occasionally Clefable, Celebi. Rarely Mega Altaria, Sylveon)
  • Wish (Normally Chansey. Occasionally alomomola, clefable. Rarely Sylveon).
  • Wincons (Wincon open to interpretation, but genereally refer to these as "something with offensive presence".).
Stall should then consider adding these, situation permitting:
  • Spikes (Chesnaught, Skarmory, Klefki. I don't like ferro on stall, but if you really need spikes, he's there as well)
  • Sleep Powder/Spore (Tangrowth, Venusaur-M, Amoongus. Mew gets it but should run wisp if you opt for mew)
  • Toxic (Everyone has it but Chansey, Quag are most common to carry it)
  • Second Wish (Generally Alomomola or Unaware Clefable)
  • Status Absorb (Think Overcoat, Natural Cure, Magic Guard)
  • Pursuit (most stalls won't find a place for it but pursuit is really nice to pick off Latios/Gardevoir and potentially Mega sable if you get him low).
Above, I didn't include stand alone abilities (like Unaware) even in optional since that's pidegonholing way too hard. If you need unaware, you have two options. Same mostly with regen (4 options, but 2 are just preference on bulk placement). As a side note, I'd expect stall to have at least four mons with independent recovery. Anything less and your wish passer becomes incredibly strained and your team no longer functions well later in the game. Yes, Regenerator counts (to me) as independent recovery. So amoongus/tangrowth are not required (and normally don't) to run synthesis.

Choosing Mons:

As it works out, most stalls end up forgoing fire types any more, even non-sables. The old FWG (Fire water grass, for newbies) cores are good but actually people prefer Water2x Grass or Water Steel Grass. Example: Slowbro, Quagsire, Amoongus or Quag, Amoongus, Skamory (the Sable core). Note that this is almost 100% physical sided. Normally, these cores are 2x physical, 1 hybrid or 3x physical. I disclude possibility for special skarm/steel because that should put you into the flex/hybrid spot. Normally, you want a fully physically devoted steel in that second core. Most 2xWater+Grass teams take a steel hybrid wall. SteelWaterGrass cores have insane flexibility in hybrid spots, being able to opt for most types with no punishment. Well, no punishment if your first steel was Skarm. If it wasn't, you'll be using the flex spot to defog/spin and hopefully avoid a ground weakness.

Currently, the grass slot is the most common "hybrid" wall since the mons available [Tangrowth (w/AV), Amoongus, Venusaur-M, rarer: Celebi] all have good stats on both sides. This isn't solely due to their stat distribution, though. Chansey does get a bit scared of Knock off Special sided users and RD manaphy. The natural special bulk (or invested, in Tangrowth's case) give these grass types the ability to scout out dangerous threats like Tornadus-T and Thundy-I for Super power and Knock off. It's a super dangerous game with Tornadus but normally you get away with it once before the opponent would spam a hurricane suspecting the switch. Otherwise, Keldeo is generally handed to grass types if you take Quagsire for your sole water. Expect them to be much more utility heavy as grass types don't have a great offensive tool like scald.


Water types will go Slowbro, Alomomola, Quagsire for norm. Throwing aside heavily specified mons (Sap Sipper Azum for teams otherwise clicking X vs Zard in general, or politoed for the legendary rain stall), the only other mons you'd expect to see is tentacruel, Slowking and rarely Suicune (Good Win Hunting). Tentacruel doesn't perform standard water jobs so he's generally in a different role altogether and normally not the only water. Slowking is hybrid focused for (I suppose) teams that opt only to take physically defensive tangrowth. Anyways, the keystone of these mons is they ALL carry scald. regardless of moveset, scald is a must. Quag and Bro are generally picked on how much a set up sweeper gets you or if you need to take care of Lop/Medi more. I'm not sure how current bro does vs Current Medi. I've heard it's not well.

Noticeably Slowbro does have the ability to neutralize some sweepers due to T-wave so that rule isn't always hard and fast. Quagsire does have a few key niches (outside the "Hey what boost?" thing). He will shut down most/all in tier darks (LO weavile, TTar ¿All sets?, Bisharp) as well as Scizor. Alomomola's benefit is the access to Wish. Generally, I feel this is a 2 horse race with alomomola better suited for a hybrid spot due to the mirror set being cool cheese and in general a lack of consistency to stop ZardX. Toxic/Wish/Protect is fine but predictable and may not stop the boosting monster. If they do nothing else, this slot IS the ZardX stop.

Key variations to note: If you go Slowbro, you almost HAVE to take Skarmory in your steel or run the 2x water core with Alomomola/Quag/Suicune. Scizor, Weavile, CB TTar, Bisharp will get by Slowbro. Tangrowth can take on TTar as long as it doesn't bring ice beam/fire blast and can be molded for Bisharp. However, the other two come free regardless. The second water slot does open up more cheese since most of the primary functions of water has been covered by slowbro.

With Quagsire, you need to make sure you're adjusted to take Keldeo on your grass type. You also need to make sure you have a Medicham/Lopunny check ready. Finding something for Medi/Lop is a bit annoying but not really difficult. Also look into Heatran, since although you have EQ, if he burns you you're dead to rights. And you water should be your first scout to heatran so you can be weary of magma storm.

Lastly, Quagsire beats BD Azum but not CB. Bro can beat CB azum but not BD. In either case, make sure you have an answer for the other one. CB is easier to answer with a grass type, but speed grass type replacements like Celebi, Venusaur (who takes both), [chesnaught], [any gourgeist smaller than super] will all do the trick.

In double water cores, only your first water is required to check off ZardX. The second just needs to handle the deficiencies mentioned between Bro and Quag.


Not much to say here. In the physically defensive steel types, Skarmory is still supreme. If you do need him elsewhere, Doublade is an option. Only use doublade if you have a flying type/grass type. Preferably both (but not in one mon). Doublade is probably the only other steel that comes close to skarm's job in walling, but falls far short in utility. Doublade is capable of taking all the stall breakers better, but also grabs Pinsir from Skarmory. He fails landorus-t and chomp, which skarm had covered (still has, if you use spdef version skarm).

Two megas have been used to supplement skarm. Scizor-Mega is an overall shaky pick here and is generally inferior to Skarmory. Generally, if you for whatever reason feel the need to really screw gardevoir or have an issue with Kyurem-B, Scizor is there. I would normally use him in the hybrid spot as a wincon and spdef focused wall. Doesn't fare as well vs the physical meta. Aggron-Mega is all around bulkier than Skarm and pretty amazing at being tanky (even takes super effective hits from +2 Pinsir-mega). However, dedicated wish support makes him sub-optimal for teams not specifically looking to support him.

Anyways normally steels (read: skarm) are supposed to catch Pinsir-Mega. Skarmory is weird in that it effectively takes Ground attacks, too. Forgoing skarm here means either have him spdef to take it or do NOT use amoongus/Mvenu. Your grass type must them shoulder Landorus-T and Garchomp. Most waters can help this so it isn't the WORST thing in the world. Otherwise, Steels are largely determined on their secondary typing for what they cover. They're about as close to 'catch all' as you get on the physical side. Regardless of steel, they all share responsibility to stop other steels (especially Scizor/Rachi if you lack Quagsire) and Fairies (depends on bulk side preference to determine which ones). I'd include dragons, but ZardX isn't caught here, Skarm doesn't catch Latios (well, he can in a pinch) and Mega Alt can blow past Skarm too. But they're also primarily dragon checks.


Alright, so 3 of 6 down. As mentioned above, I focus on 1-2 hybrid walls, 1-2 special walls, 1 wincon. Let's start with the easiest.

I made a post about this in the viability rankings. This is Chansey. 90-100% of the time. Most of the time you just don't have the luxury to mess around and use more than one truly dedicated special wall. TBH if Chansey wasn't available, Stall would be incredibly close to unviable because of it. That's simply how good Chansey is. She takes what would normally be the job of many and condenses it into one mon.

So because of this, special walls are almost always the cleric. If not chansey, the role is either split into two where the special wall takes one (wish or heal bell) and the hybrid wall carries the other OR the hybrid mon takes both (Clefable, basically). Both of them have to be Spdef focused and in this case you almost require unaware on the team.

Replacements for Chansey are impossible but you might see someone attempt Spdef Rachi here for teams fearing Gardevoir like the devil itself. About the only viable other option is a full spdef version of Clefable. Cresselia sometimes slips in here and lets Clefable do all cleric work in a hybrid role. Cress was more popular back when Landorus-i was around but it still has the special bulk, typing and utility to hard wall a lot of SpA attackers. A completely suboptimal core (but one that still is thinking correctly) is a double water+Defog zapdos taking spdef wall, aided by hybrid Clefable.

Notice a trend: Almost all replacements for Chansey involve Clefable. This goes back to the comment about Chansey or Unaware and double special walls. Anyways, Chansey is your hope against most special mons but she will work with hybrid walls or the grass types to scout most mixed attackers. You still need to check for knock off and super power.


Once you get to this point, you'll have clear and defined weaknesses. Mostly mixed attackers, sometimes wall breakers. Generally you worry about knock off hitting Chansey or a lack of a spdef water (taunt tran worries a quag/skarm/grass core, and chansey will always lose to magma storm taunt tran). Really, tran is the one huge thing you lose by not running a fire or slowbro earlier in this. If you forewent Skarm, Excadrill, Landorus-t and Garchomp are probably a bit worrisome.

Anyways, you'll have problems. This is the slot meant to solve most of them, but generally with spdef bulk. That special bulk NEEDS to be there, because this is a check down in a pinch for Chansey. If a mixed attacker or psyshock user comes around and Chansey isn't exactly suited about the current situation, the hybrid mon will be the one thrown in. This is the spot with the most variation in teams. The reason I say i feel Sable teams use a similar method to general stalls is if you use sable here, I've almost created the guide to Sable stall in gen6 minus the rotating wincon.

So for non-sable stall, we see Clefable here very, very often. Unaware walls are nice, especially if you need another check for Manaphy. Clefable also can tank most anything a thundurus throws at her and Tornadus worries about potential T-waves.

In double water cores, Skarmory almost always shows up here with a spdef set to take on Gard. In steel water grass cores, you can see a second water type like Suicune if amoongus/venusaur was taken as a grass slot (need that bulk for electric attacks). Sometimes a second steel like Rachi slips in as a stand-alone Gard counter. This is also where I consider Doublade's spot (since his invest is generally HP/Spdef). None of them are really good genie hits but all will take on Latios pretty well. These 3 are also the 'Clefable blocks' of the team. This slot in general normally fairs well vs Clefable and it is nice to have a bit of a steel reminder to clefables wanting to CM their way to victory.


So win conditions for a stall team are literally basically anything from a stall breaker to a sweeper. If you haven't used your mega, Mega Altaria, Mega Slowbro, Mega Scizor Mega Lopunny and Mega Gardevoir are particularly nice here. All of these can eventually take down a Sableye while doing some good sweeping. Pursuit users on a stall team can also fall here but I don't think a full on pursuit user is as useful for non-sable stall as it is for sable teams.

Mainly, find whatever beats you and then find a sweeper/setup mon that has a chance in good situations to take it down. If you're beat by kyurem-b, Gard's pretty neat. As is Scizor-Mega. Spdef Talonflame can come here to stall break out opposing teams if you feel like offense is pretty covered (or have a hera/medi weakness). DD ZardX is particularly nice because fire isn't seen in this team unless you include it in the hybrid spot. I do like my mons to have some defensive use before finishing (Scizor-M is pretty good for walling Gard if it doesn't feel like bringing out the broom, Slowbro-M for keldeo before mega evolving) so I do focus more heavily on wincons having recovery.

This isn't a perfect science for me because I'm far more used to full stall. This slot is, as the meta has shown with CB ABR stall, pretty damn open to interpretation.


That is about as basic as I can summarize this without saying "Hey take 5 walls and a sweeper". It isn't perfect science and the next process of stall is fine-tuning what you've missed. More importantly, this is also only for this current meta. I had a post about this during the end months of XY on what was required for stall July of 2014 (just before ORAS came out and about 3 weeks before aegi was banned). In that, it was largely agreed upon that Mandibuzz, Gliscor, Amoongus, AV Tornadus were all a pretty decent Aegi check and most were common on stall teams. Only Amoongus is still common nowadays, and obviously for different reasons. Different metas, different guides.

Just a note, interestingly enough we were heavily debating about which ghost would rise for stall during the Aegi ban debates. This was before we saw ORAS' megas, but it's interesting to look back at the discussions for what ghosts would fill Aegi's hole to stop the stallbreakers coming in.
 
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well it's clear that the playstyles discussion isn't something people want :p. Ajwf great job on the guide n_n. his post will be added to the archive under "STALL".

~​

week #21

staraptor | mega charizard y | tentacruel
staraptor was chosen because bird-spam type things have sorta declined other than that one shitty team. pinsir has already been done, and talonflame is a bit too viable for this type of thing, so staraptor is here to represent that! mega zard y was chosen because it has also seen a bit of a decline recently, and there's even been discussion for it to drop in the VR thread. tentacruel was chosen because i have like no defensive pokemon to choose from lol. it's a keld check and it has tspikes... go nuts :3.

REMEMBER: you simply pick 1 one of these 3 (or 2 / 3 of them if you want :p) and post here saying which one you're taking. also, you can use any set you want!

the discussion period will start on 6/9 (at night in EST); those of you who want to participate have between now and then to play around with these pokemon.

enjoy ^^

edit: also i want to hand this thread off to someone else in the near future (like in a couple rounds or something). feel free to message me if you're interested. if i don't reply to your PM please do not inquire further ^^;;

ideally i'm looking for someone i know i can trust, meaning i'm looking for someone that is a. a good / rising poster on OU forums (preferably someone who isn't already handling a project / bagged! wanna give others a chance toooo), b. posts in this thread a good amount, and c. i at least know somewhat personally. if you don't fit these 3 things, you probably aren't the best fit... sorry!

edit2: also i think it'd be best if whoever takes this from me starts totally fresh... meaning they reuse pokemon that have already been used. part of why i want to stop hosting this personally is because i'm running out of things to put in here sorta, and i want to post in this thread myself :DD.


Terrakion. will be revamping this thread after this slate.
 
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BIG G CHOPPA

Formerly 22$G BIG$Z

Interesting mon to say the least. It's wallbreaking capabilities is quite immense as it can easily break past the most defensive of mons bar like chansey, and mega latias (but ofc, that thing is seriously fat), with its STAB sun boosted fire blast. It hits very hard allowing it to dismantle bulky cores and can ohko and severely dent a good portion of the OU metagame under the sun. Although that 4x weakness to rocks is unfortunate, but it can be mitigated with some hazard control. Drought is a cool ability as it weakens water type moves, and since keldeo is roaming around in this meta, blasting its specs hydro pump everywhere, it can be quite useful for teammates to sponge up high powered water attacks. Especially if they are weaker to some notable threats like specs keld and band azu. Think water types counter it? Well think again solarbeam says hi. A base 120 grass type move coming off of a base 159 special attack stat is scary to waters in any way, regardless if they are bulky waters or not as they will be taking a load from it in the sun. Without further ado lets hop right into the team :3c.

Strategies Used:

At a glance I felt like dual weather would be the most ideal option here as it can rely on exca for spin support, and t tar for pursuit trapping lati's and such. While it's able to provide rocks. Fairly simple but hey it can work if used properly. But ya char y really appreciates latis being removed as they threaten char y.

Teambuilding Process:



Okay so first of all, I obviously started and built around mega charizard y. The first thing that came to mind was running a dual weather team, which primarily consists of mega charizard y+ tyranitar + excadrill. Charizard y is a powerful and dangerous wallbreaker but has some major flaws like that stealth rock weakness. It hinders, pressures and limits its wallbreaking capabilities as it cannot come in constantly when they are up. Tyranitar was added for it's ability to pursuit trap lati's who threaten charizard y and it can provide rocks too. Checks charizard x and dragonite too which can comfortably absorb a hit from mega charizard y without too much trouble (assuming dragonite has multiscale intact, in which it can easily click dragon dance). Also a good sand setter for dual weather cause honestly I don't see the point of running charizard y + hippo when tyranitar provides much more valued support for charizard y. Checks thundurus, opposing charizard y, (assuming focus doesn't hit which is the majority of the time hehe. Or like if you opt for chople i guess.), mega pinsir, tornadus therian and talonflame. Notably the common birds lol. As well as being able to check powerful threats such as kyurem black and pressure them with stealth rock and or rock stab. While its also able to pursuit trap gengar and zam too. (Again assuming its chople). Going back to that 4x stealth rock weakness with charizard y... excadrill is a solid fit as it can spin the rocks away and provide the core with a powerful wincon. 8 turns of sand is cool as it is something excadrill can capitalize on and take advantage of. Good fairy check as this team has no mega gardevoir switchins what so ever ;____;. Can threaten clefable and weaken it to the point that even if you somehow let it get to +6 its taking a load from iron head in which char y, latias, keld can pick off. Keldeo seemed like a good fit as it provides the team with a well needed dark resist as otherwise bisharp / weavile can plow through the team no problem. Provides the team with a solid wallbreaker that can hit really hard with its STAB fighting and water type attacks. Able to fish for burns by simply clicking scald and grabbing that burn is pretty cool as common checks like mega venusaur are pressured. In addition it makes it harder for mega venu to stay alive when sand cuts its longevity by a good portion, meaning it cannot come in on a scald gaining the burn with rocks up followed by an incoming hydro + rocks, burn the next time it switches in. The team so far doesn't like bulky waters really or waters in general. Lacks a solid switchin to powerful attackers like keldeo, mega gyarados, azumarill, and annoyed by bulky waters like rotom wash. Amoonguss fits the job as regenerator allows it to properly and fully function as a pivot, coming in multiple times throughout the match without worrying too much about burns, rocks and sand damage. While being able to check loom which can essentially get a free spore off or like i simply have no switchins without amoong. Amoonguss can essentially get a free spore off too which is nice. Another fairy check to the team as it can get rid of the boosts clef and mega altaria who may have managed to get. Onto the final member at last! Latias rounds up the team with some healing wish support and a consistent check to electrics / bulky waters and waters in general. Fast electrics can pose as a problem as tyranitar can get worn down easily throughout the course of the match and amoonguss would take a chunk from hp flying thundurus, overheat from mega manectric. Latias is able to come in on breloom, manaphy, charizard y and rotom wash without too much fear unless if manaphy is boosted but then again it can drop a draco if directly switched in on the turn it uses tail glow and significantly weaken it. That's all and hope you enjoy c:. Importable below so that you can see sets and get a free team, yay for stealing.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Ice Beam

OR

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Thunder Wave

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Roost
 
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