Palkia [QC: 0/3]

Colonel M

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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484.png


http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/484.shtml
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/palkia

Overview
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Penis Dragon
Such Girth
Wow


SET NAME
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name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Thunder / Rest
ability: Pressure
item: Lustrous Orb / Assault Vest
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
- Hydro Pump is your primary STAB option. With the weather nerf it is a mixed blessing for Palkia, but the lack of Dragons swarming Ubers makes Hydro Pump a solid offensive option.
- Surf can be used if the accuracy is annoying.
- Fire Blast eliminates Ferrothorn and is Palkia's best attack against Groudon in sunlight.
- Thunder is there since Palkia is one of the best checks to Kyogre.
- Spacial Rend offers sustained power while Draco Meteor allows Palkia to be a nuke on the occasion.
- Rest can also work on Palkia to beat non-Calm Mind Kyogre one-on-one. Use it over Thunder as otherwise Ferrothorn is a free switch-in. Also if Palkia is using Rest Spacial Rend is a must.
- Not listed, but Outrage is an option to 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock on the field. A Hasty nature is required.
- Dragon Tail can be a usable option to prevent Pokemon such as Kyogre from setting up Calm Mind.


Set Details
========
- Standard EVs optimized to Palkia's performance.
- Modest is an option but it's mainly for trading any capability of revenge killing for raw power.
- Lustrous Orb is the best item due to its consistent power without any drawback. Fire Blast and Thunder are more for coverage moves while Palkia should focus on hitting targets with its great dual-STABs.
- Assault Vest sacrifices power to allow Palkia to soak up Kyogre even better. It's about the closest you'll get to Latias with Soul Dew.
- Leftovers is an alternative item to use; especially if Palkia is using Rest.
- Haban Berry is a good item to help Palkia absorb Dragon-type attacks and retaliate with its own.

Usage Tips
========
- Palkia is often treated with two purposes - it is seen as an offensive threat while being one of the best checks to non-Calm Mind Kyogre.
- Controlling weather and being able to predict the weather is paramount to using Palkia. Rain is Palkia's best friend; however, Palkia does not necessarily hate sunlight either.
- Assault Vest should only be considered if you desperately need to check Kyogre and your team is completely crippled by it.
- Caution should be used when facing some of the potentially slower threats. For example, there are times where Zekrom may or may not be using Choice Scarf.
- If you plan to use Rest on Palkia Leftovers is a necessary item to use.

Team Options
========
- Having either Kyogre or Groudon really benefits Palkia. Kyogre is recommended more due to rain playing nicer with Palkia's STAB Hydro Pump as well as accurate Thunder. Sunlight isn't bad, though, since Groudon brings Palkia a boosted Fire Blast to prevent threats such as Ferrothorn from thinking of switching in twice. Groudon also brings nice utility with Stealth Rock and possibly Thunder Wave.
- Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas are two of the biggest threats to Palkia. Aegislash is great for taking these threats head-on. Ho-oh works well as it applies pressure to Grass Arceus. Steel Arceus also doesn't match up badly. Chansey and Blissey also can status both of these threats and wear them down with Seismic Toss. Beware of Xerneas Close Combat.
- Palkia is fairly quick but it does often miss the benchmark against some of the faster Pokemon. Threats such as Scarf Zekrom, Mewtwo, and Arceus can help remedy those situations.
- Other Dragon-types can threaten Palkia if they're faster. Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy can do well in checking or countering these threats.
- Chansey and Blissey are really nasty for Palkia. Deploying heavy physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Gengar does wonders for Palkia.
- Speaking of Chansey and Blissey having Heal Bell or Aromatherapy for Rest Palkia is not a bad idea.


SET NAME
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name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Draco Meteor / Spacial Rend
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Fire Blast
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
- Choice Specs is all about power, so it comes as no surprise that Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the primary options for Palkia.
- Surf and / or Spacial Rend can also be used if you want consistency of power or accuracy in the scenario of Surf.
- Thunder and Fire Blast are mainly for coverage, though sun-boosted Fire Blast on Specs is really scary.


Set Details
========
- Timid with max Special Attack and Speed for obvious reasons.
- Modest works but Timid is great for its Speed tier.
- You know do I really have to explain Choice Specs lol?

Usage Tips
========
- Carry Kyogre with you if you can. Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps (or Surfs if you're a pussy) really fucking hurt.
- Ample prediction is necessary to succeed with this set. Bear in mind that Fairies are immune to Dragon-type moves, so locking into Spacial Rend or Draco Meteor is much easier to punish than it was in previous generations.
- Though the sun might be depressing on Palkia's STAB Water-type attack moves, Specs Fire Blast in the sun is really powerful.

Team Options
========
- Kyogre pls
- Mega Gengar can handle blobs
- Aegislash can screw over fairies
- Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Groudon can all set up Stealth Rock support. Tyranitar can at least neutralize the weather effects while Groudon boosts Fire Blast at the cost of halving Surf or Hydro Pump.
- Xerneas / Arceus Fairy can handle Dragons that could possibly be faster than Palkia (i.e. Scarf Zekrom).



SET NAME
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Draco Meteor / Spacial Rend
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Fire Blast
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
- Hydro Pump is being used for obvious reasons.
- Draco Meteor is preferred slightly on this set as the immediate power can bring great rewards when revenge killing. Spacial Rend is still good for consistency.
- Thunder and Fire Blast help Palkia stay as a good check for Kyogre as well as being able to handle sunlight with Groudon.

Set Details
========
- Most optimal EVs.
- Again Modest can be used though beware of Timid Scarf Reshiram and +1 Jolly Rayquaza.

Usage Tips
========
- Choice Scarf isn't as great as it was in previous generations. It's rather weak and doesn't exactly help Palkia check Kyogre very well. Still, it is a functional set if your team needs a solid Choice Scarf Pokemon and you're strapped for options.
- Scarf Palkia is designed more to be a revenge killer. It can pull off a lategame sweep; however, the enemy team has to be thoroughly worn out.
- Ample prediction is necessary to succeed with this set as the lock onto specific moves can mean trouble for your team.


Team Options
========
- See above.
- Walls such as Blissey and Chansey need to be cleared much faster, though. Also beware of the Dragon lock against Fairy-types.


Other Options
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- Toxic handles Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, and other switch-ins.
- Sleep Talk can be used on the Rest set but it isn't a good idea.
- Chesto Berry can also be used on the Rest set but again doesn't work well. The point of Rest is to cure status and beat defensive Kyogre one-on-one. It isn't really for recovering health.
- Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used to beat Blissey; however, Focus Punch and Spacial Rend are walled by many Pokemon in the Uber tier now.


Checks & Counters
########
- The biggest way to counter / check Palkia pends completely on the weather and what moves are boosted / weakened with it. In rain Hydro Pump, Spacial Rend, and Thunder will be used often. In the sunlight Fire Blast and Spacial Rend will see more usage.
- Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy can switch into a lot of Palkia's attacks and easily scare Palkia off with their STAB Fairy-type attacks. Beware of rain-boosted Hydro Pumps.
- Blissey and Chansey completely wall Palkia without Outrage. These threats can poison Palkia and wear it down with Seismic Toss.
- Ferrothorn can take on Palkia when it is raining, though Ferrothorn suffers massive damage from Fire Blast.
- In sunlight Lugia serves as a good check to Palkia. In neutral weather it is harder since paralysis can really screw over Lugia's capability of stalling out Palkia.
- In the rain Aegislash does okay against Palkia. Fire Blast still stings, though.
- In sunlight Ho-oh does well against it. Hydro Pump still kind of harms it.
- In the rain Grass Arceus can take all sorts of punishment from Palkia.
 
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Awaiting Melee Mewtwo or Donkey to post the Rest + 3 Attacks Palkia set. I just need some description and such.

Old Rest+3 Attacks:
SET NAME
########
name: Rest
move 1: Rest
move 2: Surf
move 3: Spacial Rend
move 4: Thunder / Fire Blast
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
- Rest allows Palkia to become more of a status absorber and check certain threats like Kyogre easier.
- Surf is mandatory on this set since this Palkia is not attempting to go full-out offensive.
- Spacial Rend is used for another useful STAB. Works well in all weather conditions too.
- Thunder is mostly to allow Palkia to check Kyogre as being a Kyogre check is this sets main focal point.
- Fire Blast can be used if you need Palkia to tackle threats such as Ferrothorn.
- Toxic wasn't listed; however, it allows Palkia to punish potential switch-ins like Ho-oh in sunlight, Fairy Arceus, or Xerneas.
- Dragon Tail can also be used to prevent Pokemon from setting up on Palkia. It also makes it more difficult for Kyogre to set up Calm Minds on Palkia.

Set Details
========
- Getting real tired of explaining this lol.
- A bulkier spread can be used if you want Palkia to be a little more durable at the cost of Speed.
- Leftovers is the primary item to recover from health.

Usage Tips
========
- This Palkia is designed to be more of a status absorber. With Rest it can switch into Toxic users such as Ho-oh, Aegislash, and others and scare them off with Palkia's STAB Surf or Spacial Rend. For special cases such as Aegislash and Forretress Fire Blast exists.
- Though Spacial Rend does not shut down Kyogre quickly, bear in mind that the combination of Rest and Spacial Rend will usually beat most Kyogre. This affords Palkia some flexibility of using Fire Blast for situations such as Groudon.

Team Options
========
- Aegislash for Fairies
- Mega Gengar for blobs
- Kyogre for rain.
- Groudon can work and it sets up Stealth Rock.
- Ferrothorn is also great for Stealth Rock.
- Xerneas / Fairy Arceus for other Dragons.
- Heal Bell / Aromatherapy support isn't bad for this set so that Rest is a little harder to punish.
 
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rest
3 attacks (surf/spacial/fire blast OR thunder>one of those moves if you have rain)

leftovers

i just use max sp atk max speed, you can creep non timid/jolly base 90s if you want but it likes the speed, helps it stall some stuff

edit: also toxic or dtail is probably legit
 
SET NAME
########
name: Rest
move 1: Rest
move 2: Surf
move 3: Spacial Rend
move 4: Fire Blast / Thunder / Toxic
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

And maybe add Dragon Tail in the comments for Moves. Look good?
 
Colonel M said:
SET NAME
########
name: Rest
move 1: Rest
move 2: Surf
move 3: Spacial Rend
move 4: Fire Blast / Thunder / Toxic
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

And maybe add Dragon Tail in the comments for Moves. Look good?
Click to expand...
Yeah, probably include toxic in the comments as well. It's really situational.
 
Choice Specs is still viable IMO. It's the only set that can threaten to 2HKO bulky support Arceus without rain and Specs Hydro Pump is pretty spammable with Ferro usage decreasing.

Also I think Assault Vest should be the primary item option in the first set since Kyogre checks are at a premium right now and Vest Palkia is the strongest check we've got atm. Lustrous Orb is still great but I think AV fits better into more teams.
 
I don't think Aegislash can do anything to Palkia. Surf drowns it in rain, Fire Blast will destroy it in any other weather. I think you want to mention Ferrothorn :)
Expert Belt should get a small mention on the Lustrous Orb set because a stronger Thunder can guaranty the 2HKO on SpD Kyogre and Lugia. It also helps hitting Ferrothorn harder although the loss in power vs threats like Arceus sucks. Surf can still be used on the set as it doesn't miss and still 2HKO Arceus in rain.

Lustrous Orb helps Palkia get the OHKO on Giratina-O though and helps vs stuff like Dialga.

The Tyrant M is always a beast.
 
Well, in neutral weather Palkia's best bet with Lustrous Orb is:

252 SpA Palkia Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 146-172 (45 - 53%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which after King's Shield is always a 3hko, but you will be able to Toxic at the very least, so maybe it can go under some kinda check idk. Rest Kia obviously rapes Toxic but you can't take too many Shadow Balls either.

About AV, personally I like Rest+3 atks a lot more since it just sidesteps all problems with sdef Ogre and still does really good work vs any Kyogre really. But AV is probably the primary item slash on the first set simply because it's just an obvious choice of item for a mon with great coverage and a task to check special attackers. Lust is ok but it's simply not that good anymore- Dragon immunity and reduced base power on coverage move (for example a 120 BP Fire Blast would be a different story in my calc above) hurts it and you are usually better of trying to predict switches with your coverage than breaking through stuff. Assault Vest can buy you more wiggle room for mispredictions in a way, especially against Kyogre, so it has a nice niche in that too.

Choice Specs is kinda viable but you have to run a very sturdy Fairy check, usually Aegislash, with it.
 
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Nuance that Defog mention in teammates. It also clears your own hazards which can be a problem if the opposing Kyogre is still healthy enough to be a dick with Water Spout.

Mega Gengar is cute with Palkia for trapping blobs and fairies. Also helps get around bulky Arceus formes in general.


Eww Scarf, make sure that is the last set. It's the only Palkia set I used this gen that I disliked. Speaking of which, I'm not sure where I stand on the AV vs Lust slashing but I think I prefer Lust since Hydro Pump still pressures bulky Arceus formes to continue checking. Make sure to mention bulkier spreads in set comments for those that opt for AV. Also, gets Specs up there I like it a lot for the reasons Fireburn mentioned. It's just nice at punishing switches and puts a lot of pressure on the bulky Arceus formes. As for final set order, I've honestly no clue. All I know is I dislike Scarf so it should be last.
 
Set Order should be Offensive -> Specs -> Scarf. Rest + 3Atks can go anywhere but Scarf should be last set IMO.

Is TR Palkia still viable?
 
Will do all of these.

I also think, in the current meta, it should be Offensive -> Specs -> Rest -> Scarf. I'll take a look at Offensive TR but IIRC last gen it had issues because it was too fast even with a -Speed nature.
 
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Gennosuke Fujiki said:
Where's my Blissey Boxer. I need my Blissey Boxer set up there.
Click to expand...
Blissey Boxer seems really skeptical and Focus Punch + Spacial Rend is walled by Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, and Aegislash.

I mean yeah you can use Surf or Hydro Pump or even Fire Blast... still... I don't think it's that great. QC can weigh in on this one.

This is ready for QC checks. I added Specs and Rest set. A lot of the stuff is just repeated shit over and over again but bear in mind that a lot of the Palkia sets play differently but have somewhat similar teammates / EVs.

We also talked a little bit about Rest set. I felt skeptical about adding it but I did anyway since it was talked about. Some considered it AC material and I actually agree. I'll let QC fight to the death on this one. I'll test out TR Palkia tomorrow but honestly I don't see it being that great. If someone has used it, please let me know.
 
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Colonel M said:
Blissey Boxer seems really skeptical and Focus Punch + Spacial Rend is walled by Xerneas, Fairy Arceus, and Aegislash.

I mean yeah you can use Surf or Hydro Pump or even Fire Blast... still... I don't think it's that great. QC can weigh in on this one.
Click to expand...
Well, it is mainly a lure which works wonders alongside mons such as Xerneas (without focus miss) and CM Arceuses that does not have Refresh.
 
Focus Punch is an OO move as it can be slapped on the offensive set if you really want to hit blissey/chansey (although it mostly isn't worth it, thus oo)

I really like Rest Palkia so who do I need to bother about it?
 
We talked on IRC. I'll just slash Rest with Thunder in the Offensive set with Leftovers slashed in as well then just add a sentence or two about it.
 
Haban berry OO? I know it was more of a babe last gen, but the tier still has a multitude of dragons, it probs deserves OO mention for beating dragons 1 on 1..
Is TRalkia worth a mention (I know with mawile being on the fence at best atm there's nothing obvious for trick room to support, maybe should also be OO? For teams using TR it's a legit set of TR + 3 Attacks with lust orb (ofc lefties, lum, haban are all options too but I can't imagine them being OO since they're very niche at best)
 
Haban in set details yeah, speaking of which I dislike the term revenge killing for running modest. Idk it's more just that you risking getting outspeed by +90s/95s/99s when you are supposed to be faster. (revenge killing implies you are coming in after a kill to check a threat which isn't exactly what is going on)

Mention how underwhelming choice scarf palkia is somewhere. Idk where but readers need to know it's not an ideal Scarf mon nor solid Kyogre check, just this kinda of lame ass glue. (if it didn't have that niche i'd stick the set in OO lol)

Move Dtail out of oo and put it in set details of the offensive variant for lust/av sets. Also, explain a bit more clearly why chesto isn't cool with rest. In this case, it's cause the point of rest isn't so much for the healing but for absorbing status and outlasting defensive Kyogre. Lefties is more useful against offensive kyogre where you likely won't use Rest. (and if you do, Palkia won't be much use beyond a threat against using water moves) Ice Beam is too gimmicky for me, please remove it from OO. Same thing for Power Gem when you have water stab.

Looks good, really want to stamp but has to wait :(
 
Hello. I would recommend giving Surf the first slash in the Offensive set. Hydro Pump has 110 BP and 80 Acc while Surf has 90 BP and 100 Acc. The moves should be listed as follow:

~ Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
~ Surf / Hydro Pump
~ Thunder
~ Fire Blast

Furthermore, Assault Vest should be given the first slash over Lustrous Orb for obvious reasons. In fact, Assault Vest and Lustrous Orb should be two distinct sets as they function differently.
 
Jimmyftw said:
Hello. I would recommend giving Surf the first slash in the Offensive set. Hydro Pump has 110 BP and 80 Acc while Surf has 90 BP and 100 Acc. The moves should be listed as follow:

~ Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor
~ Surf / Hydro Pump
~ Thunder
~ Fire Blast

Furthermore, Assault Vest should be given the first slash over Lustrous Orb for obvious reasons. In fact, Assault Vest and Lustrous Orb should be two distinct sets as they function differently.
Click to expand...
don't do this IMO
 
Donkey said:
don't do this IMO
Click to expand...
You'll have to elaborate more on your comments for your argument to be persuasive.

Are you saying that the Assault Vest and Lustrous Orb item should indeed belong in the same set when it is clear that the two items function differently?
 
Done.

I think Trick Room + 3 Attacks is okay as an actual set. Though Mega Mawile wrecks it you also have a lot of options that are great in Trick Room that can handle it to some extents (Aegislash, Groudon, etc).
 
When you talk about Dragon Tail also mention that its nice for screwing with Kyogre's team after it switches (like Kyogre flees to say Grass Arceus and you Dragon Tail it now Grass Arc takes potential hazard damage and you probably have a favorable match up).

TR+ 3 attacks should be OO in my opinion. Slower Palkia = harder to check ogre (I know you invested in bulk but still...), and the weather nerf really makes it hard to just spam Hydro Pump and sweep teams lategame with it.

The idea with Rest is to beat those Scald Kyogres and annoy Choiced Kyogre since you can basically throw Palkia out there, scout the move (if spout / water move you wake up while it spams, if thunder / ice beam switch out), and respond accordingly against choice ogre, while scald ogre can't wear down Palkia at all. Mention Rest does not work well against non-choiced and non defensive variants of ogre (like Thunder Wave for example, you can't rest and run to a switch because you don't know if Kyogre will Thunder again, and since its 3HKOed by Thunder it won't be able to switch into it while asleep, somewhat similar deal with Calm Mind vars).

Obligatory Lanturn mention b/c lol it takes pittance from every move

This thing is really done though outside of that, the tyrant Colonel M has done a great job.

QC: 1/3

Jimmy Hydro Pump in rain on specs 2HKOes Ferro and Chansey (if rocks are present).

Draco Meteor OHKOes certain Groudon variants.

Donkey assumed it was implied but if its not this states it.
 
polop said:
Jimmy Hydro Pump in rain on specs 2HKOes Ferro and Chansey (if rocks are present).

Draco Meteor OHKOes certain Groudon variants.

Donkey assumed it was implied but if its not this states it.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about the Specs set, I was referring to the Assault Vest set. If using Hydro Pump > Surf maybe mention what Hydro Pump OHKO/2HKO that Surf doesn't. IIRC both Surf and Hydro Pump 2HKO Xerneas and support Arceus under rain.

The power/accuracy debate of Hydro Pump/Surf was more prominent last generation. I feel that this generation (Hydro PumP 110bp, 80acc ; Surf 90bp, 100acc) the power/accuracy debate is more favorable toward Surf, hence why I believe Surf deserve the first slash over Hydro Pump on the Assault Vest set.

Also, I feel Assault Vest deserve the first slash over Lustrous Orb for the same reasons Fireburn and Hack mentioned.
 
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