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NOC Paranoia Mafia Game Over - Mafia Wins

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Asek - In terms of reads, we didnt get to hear too much from you near the end of the day. Has the end of the day + the flip changed your ideas on people, or do you still stick by your scumreads (which I think is just me now)?
(you talked about gale but that's it)
+ why didn't you vote at the end of deadline?
 
rssp1 said:
Asek - In terms of reads, we didnt get to hear too much from you near the end of the day. Has the end of the day + the flip changed your ideas on people, or do you still stick by your scumreads (which I think is just me now)?
(you talked about gale but that's it)
+ why didn't you vote at the end of deadline?
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Twin is cleaner from the texas flip. I've left plenty of reasoning throughout the thread for this, but note hes definitely not in my town circle from this.

Gale is scummier (why didnt he pull vote off twin and onto me if hes scum reading me and is thinking texas is town to try move the wagon onto me??)

The flip changes nothing about my opinion on you, others are just higher on my list right now and I think if gale flips scum its unlikely your the partner, which would just make you another town with some weak posts rather than a mafia with some 'slip' posts.

I don't really like how as soon as game attention shifts to lynching me borath flipped on his stance earlier of 'never lynching me (or hawkie).

Hawkie has to be town.

I didn't vote because I was keeping up replying to gale and texas and deadline slipped by. I think i voted for texas in that situation anyway, as my vote was moot on myself, and I didnt want a rand.

Why didnt you vote then?
 
tagging Borath the Oscillator because twin's post failed the tag

Asek said:
Gale's basically throwing random votes out to try get any wagon going really. I don't think he particularly cared who he was lynching, he was continuously throwing votes to try gain traction on any kind of lynch really, to me it reads as gale was fishing for a mislynch that someone would agree with him on. I also strongly dislike the post where hes come out with 'Asek and I are scum' that you guys were too quick to forgive. That post fucking reeked. Seriously... that was some serious psychology in that post. Gale is a clever boy. He knew that saying something like that out loud would make you guys question whether he is scum or playing devils advocate and ultimately come to the conclusion he wouldnt do that as scum.... OR he wanted to get lynched to cast more suspicion on me and get me lynched for whatever reason (less likely). I also think that if gale wasnt scum, then the scum team would of leapt at this oppurtunity a lot harder and tried to push him for a lynch off this, which didnt happen because he is in the scum team and doesnt have to worry about that happening. The fact that gale is constantly waiting for people to respond to his weird votes / one liners before posting his real thoughts is quite troubling as well - hes gauging your reactions and then making sure he can bounce off those before providing his real thoughts, which in my opinion is dangerous. The line at the EoD as well was also very troubling. 'You guys are crazy for lynching texas'. Why would you say that before the flip had even happened unless you knew something about the result??

Texas flipping town makes twin look towiner to me than if texas had of flipped scum, but im on completely differant wavelengths to most of the people in this game....
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The first one makes sense as of yesterday, but he was doing it the previous day when Aubisio was being lynched as well. Does that make a difference to your read at all (since the behavior is consistent rather than a one-time thing) or no?
The thing with his post where he claimed scum is that it seriously doesn't make sense for scum to claim scum and then stop doing so automatically. I guess you're saying that he's went for that gambit, but I really don't know why he'd do that when a lot of people were townreading him.
The third point is valid, I dislike that as well.
The fourth one, I think gale said that he thought texas was scummy and had attempted to push a lynch on twin but failed (correct me if i'm wrong) so that's why that happened.

Can you elaborate on why texas flipping town makes twin look better? Is it because you believed that they were both scum bussing each other?

Thetwinmasters said:
rssp1 want to say your case on me
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You tunneling Texas and having very little content outside of him / things related to him + possible scumteams with all non-gale players. I think you being teamed with Borath and Asek looks weaker now, but the Hawkie connection still stands (given how he saved it from going to a tie vote).

Coming into the day I thought that there were two possible scumteams: you/hawkie or asek/borath, with a slight possibility of you with asek/borath. I still think the first two are possible, but i'm not sure about the third set.
 
rssp1 said:
tagging Borath the Oscillator

Can you elaborate on why texas flipping town makes twin look better? Is it because you believed that they were both scum bussing each other?
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I was fairly certain a player of twins ilk would try some strategy where he tunnels hard on his scum teammate, so if he got lynched they would flip scum and hed look clean. Tunnelling is such a twin town noc behaviour that it would make him look very clean to most players, as its A) consistent with his town play in past play, and B) got a scum lynched, which one would think is counter intuitive, as it is in most NOCS. But it isnt in this one due to the nature of the game. Feels like such a twin thing to do, just knowing him on more of a personal level as well I can see him doing something like that. But Texas flipped town, which makes me think it is just a classic twin tunnelling on a townie that he scumreads off one slip up, and twin seems to have certain users he loves to tunnel as town across many games (haruno, now texas), which makes me think that this is indeed a town game I'm seeing.
 
rssp1 said:
alright, that makes sense
what are your thoughts on borath?
What do you think the scumteam is?
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Gale + someone

I would draw on interactions between gale at EoD and whatnot to discern who his likely partner is. But more honestly... I have no idea

It may even be a single person scum. I'm not completely opposed to that idea. Scum are either playing brilliantly and theres no real links between them, or theres no such link to be found because theres only one of them.

I really need to go back and analyse borath content. I think I've been too focused on the idea of him having to be town due to the sub business, and as such I saw his content as too towny. In all honesty a lot of it felt genuinely towny. He caught up and has provided justification behind a lot of his stuff. Maybe my perception was significantly skewed though. I believe hes town, but I'll see how he posts today.
 
rssp1 said:
What about his posts felt townie to you? Was it the post quality or the content? Or something else?
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The tone of it all felt like borath was scum hunting in earnest. Hes gone through and based things off of lynch results and wagons. Hes analysing connections between players on the assumption that theres multiple scum. It felt like everything he was saying was grouned in some kind of logic that made it all believable as to how hed come to the conclusions he was coming to, and I could see how he was drawing those conclusions, which made me feel more comftable, and perhaps complacent in trusting him.
 
Alright. Given that all of that still holds true, why are you thinking that he's scum? Or are you saying that he COULD be scum, and you need to check back to see if your read changes?
 
rssp1 said:
Alright. Given that all of that still holds true, why are you thinking that he's scum? Or are you saying that he COULD be scum, and you need to check back to see if your read changes?
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i said i no longer think hes lock town. I think my read has been too influenced by the sub. I don't nessecarily think he is scum, hes just not an impossibility at this point

I dislike how you're directing all the questions. Tell me what you think about myself, borath, gale, twin. I already know what you think about hawkie I believe.
 
twin was here but he seems to have disappeared :/
Already talked about twin/hawkie
gale's behavior doesnt seem like that of scum, I really feel like he's actually pushing his own scumreads and is just frustrated with how complacent a lot of us have gotten
I thought walrein was semi-sketchy before he subbed out, looking back his defenses arent as good as I remember them being. Borath has had quality posts but that's really it, and given that texas's "scum just need to act like a perfect town" thing is kinda valid I could see borath being scum (he's who i'd lynch atm).
You're v similar to Borath in that your posts at the start were super good but you've dropped off recently, although the posts you've made in the last 2 days (not counting the recent case on gale which I think was also a good post) were pretty fillery/bad/just pushing the easiest scumread at the time which isnt necessarily the case with borath
 
rssp1 said:
twin was here but he seems to have disappeared :/
Already talked about twin/hawkie
gale's behavior doesnt seem like that of scum, I really feel like he's actually pushing his own scumreads and is just frustrated with how complacent a lot of us have gotten
I thought walrein was semi-sketchy before he subbed out, looking back his defenses arent as good as I remember them being. Borath has had quality posts but that's really it, and given that texas's "scum just need to act like a perfect town" thing is kinda valid I could see borath being scum (he's who i'd lynch atm).
You're v similar to Borath in that your posts at the start were super good but you've dropped off recently, although the posts you've made in the last 2 days (not counting the recent case on gale which I think was also a good post) were pretty fillery/bad/just pushing the easiest scumread at the time which isnt necessarily the case with borath
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I think gale is scum, he keeps disapearing after posting his reads and I still think the end game situation yesterday when he wouldnt stop posting and let us organise a lynch coherenty was very anti townie and he was complacent with anyone getting lynched at that point, in my mind because he wasnt going to get lynched and his possible teammate wasnt either.

I too thought walrein was scummy. He was consistently my top scumread when I subbed in. Do I hold borath and Walrein as the same poster though and judge borath off of old walrein content as well as his own posts? If I'm to do that he looks a lot worse. If I don't he looks a lot better

Regardless I want some more people to actually post.... smogon noc meta ladies and gentlemen
 
why shouldnt you treat them as the same poster? Although it's a lot harder to explain things, you can still look at already discussed issues and hold them to the sub since there isnt something that they have to explain. Completely disconnecting their games isnt the way to go imo (unless you think that borath's posts counteract walrein's)
Based on what you've said in the first part, does that mean that you think twin is town?
if you do think gale is scum, who do you think is his most likely scumpartner?
 
rssp1 said:
why shouldnt you treat them as the same poster? Although it's a lot harder to explain things, you can still look at already discussed issues and hold them to the sub since there isnt something that they have to explain. Completely disconnecting their games isnt the way to go imo (unless you think that borath's posts counteract walrein's)
Based on what you've said in the first part, does that mean that you think twin is town?
if you do think gale is scum, who do you think is his most likely scumpartner?
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I think the fact that I havent been treating borath and walrein as the same poster was a grievous error on my behalf

What do you mean what I said in the first part? Can you quote what I said where you think I said twin was town?

Answered the part about gales scum team at #2006
 
Asek said:
I think gale is scum, he keeps disapearing after posting his reads and I still think the end game situation yesterday when he wouldnt stop posting and let us organise a lynch coherenty was very anti townie and he was complacent with anyone getting lynched at that point, in my mind because he wasnt going to get lynched and his possible teammate wasnt either.
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implies twin isnt his partner which means he'd have to be town if gale is scum
 
I figure I may as well mention it since you seem to have not noticed but I believe the only person gale has NOT gone after yet is borath (I think)
and he definitely tried to get lynches on me, you, and twin so a scumteam with all of us is highly improbable
a scumteam with hawkie is POSSIBLE, but highly unlikely (saying its possible because he backed of off hawkie to go onto twin near eod)
 
rssp1 said:
implies twin isnt his partner which means he'd have to be town if gale is scum
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Oh gotcha, yeah thats implied there.

Thought you were referencing something we'd already discussed when I posted directly about twin above.

Do you want to give your own thoughts on my theory about scum not being pressured by lynch yday? Who does the texas flip reflect the worst on for you at current game state?
 
Oh sorry, didn't mean to cause confusion there

I think it's certainly a possibility; twin's contributions today have been super good so i'm actually inclined to believe he's town (that along with the fact that my case for him being scum is admittedly very weak)
I'm thinking that borath is the scum with someone (no idea who, a lot of possibilities lol) as his partner. Should borath be lynched and flip town, that clears gale imo.

The texas flip I originally thought looked really bad on twin but borath revealed that he thought texas was townie (by association with me) but then didnt vote to save him (and apparently contradicted himself based on what he said at eod?? not sure because I didnt read it very carefully), so id say it honestly looks worst on him.
It looks bad on Hawkie as well in the sense that it sets up a high possibility of a hawkie/twin scumteam (hawkie's reasoning for suddenly not wanting to lynch twin was incredibly weak)
 
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