All Gens Past Gens Research Thread

Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
Research Leader
In RB Zapdos is weak to electric in-game, and Pidgeot resists fighting. Maybe something is up with flying type?
Gen 1 had plenty of questionable programming quirks, not least of which is what they used to determine type effectiveness. Basically, the games go through the list in order looking for the attacking type VS a defending type, but for dual-types the final effectiveness message is the match-up that it encounters later in the list.

As for your examples, Electric VS Electric appears before Electric VS Flying, so the final message is super effective, while Fighting VS Normal appears before Fighting VS Flying, so the final message is not very effective.
 

Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
Research Leader
Is this how it's calced in showdown? I know Zapdos tbolts are neutral in the mirror
Nope, it's not really worth anyone's time to implement. You'd also have to add one of those handholdy hints after every "wrong" message like
It's super effective!
(But not really! The game is lying to you!)
effectively undoing your work anyway. It doesn't affect battles so it doesn't matter.
 
In RB Zapdos is weak to electric in-game, and Pidgeot resists fighting.
It's not true. It's just a in-game bug that causes "the commentary" to take into account only the 2nd type as far as super effective and not very effective moves.

In both cases the mons you mentioned they receive regular damage, but since their 2nd type is flying and it's weak to elecrtic and resistant to fighting you see message "it's not very effective!" and "it's super effective!". The same happens when Gyarados is hit by a grass type move or any of the common grass/poison, bug/poison by a ground type move.

PS. For some reason the posts in response to the one I quoted weren't displayed for me. Since other users have already explained the issue, if mods find it redundant, feel free to delete it. Sorry for the mess.
 
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Lavos

Banned deucer.

After a Pokemon faints by using Self-Destruct or Explosion in Gen 3, the turn continues when the replacement Pokemon is sent out, so end-of-turn effects should apply then. In this video you can see that Ralts Traces the ability Immunity but doesn't become healed of Poison until the next turn.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-723987223

However, as you can see in this replay, when Ralts comes in after the Self-Destruct it Traces Immunity and its Poison is instantly healed. This is distinctly different from what happened in my tests on Emerald cart. I've only tested this for Immunity, but I'm wondering if the inconsistency extends to things like Tracing Water Veil for Burn or Magma Armor for Freeze. Would need to do further testing on cart.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.

Double-posting because I found something else. In Gen 3, the "pinch" berries (Liechi, Ganlon, Petaya, Apicot, Salac, Lansat, and Starf) will only activate if the Pokemon's HP is equal to or less than 25% of its max HP, AND if the stat boost that it provides can be used. This means that, for example, if a Pokemon's Attack stat is already maxed out and it's holding a Liechi Berry, even if it falls into the HP range where the berry would normally trigger, instead nothing will happen. This holds true for all the stat-boosting berries, even the Starf Berry, which normally grants +2 to a random stat (Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, or Spe) but won't trigger or be consumed if all those stats are maxed out. This is also true for the Lansat Berry, which mimics Focus Energy in that it displays the message "[X Pokemon] is getting pumped!" and increases Critical Hit rate by +1, but won't trigger if the Pokemon has already used Focus Energy. In this video I tested the Lansat Berry. After the 2nd Absorb, Machop falls below 25% HP, but the Berry doesn't trigger and isn't consumed (I open up my party to prove that's the case).

However, in this replay, Vigoroth uses Focus Energy and falls into pinch berry range, but its Lansat Berry is consumed anyway.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-724752195

And in this replay, I start a Baton Pass chain to test all 6 remaining pinch berries. They all activate and are consumed, despite their respective stats being maxed out at the time. Even the Starf Berry is wasted when every stat is maxed out.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-724748428
 
In the Generation 5 Games, consecutively executed moves like Thrash and Rollout interact weirdly with Sky Drop. In the case of Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage, if the Users turn is skipped while thrashing in the air, the Confusion-Counter does not advance. When the user is dropped and the thrashing move ends, he is not confused. However the Pokémon is confused upon executing any other move the next turn. If the next move is Thrash, Petal Dance, or Outrage, the move ends immediately after a single turn, and the user is not locked into the move.

Simlilar things happen with Rollout and Ice Ball. While in the air, it seems that the successive use-counter that multiplies the damage does not advance. When let down, every repetition deals only half the supposed damage. Since those moves last for 5 turns, this can be repeated once more. If Ice Ball or Rollout is used again after the previous one ended, the strength of the move is equal to the next hit of where the counter left off, but the Attack will end after 1 turn, even if the counter was delayed multpile times. If any other move is used after the counter was delayed, the power of the new move is multiplied instead that of Rollout/Ice Ball. The effects end after your next turn, even if you didn't attack. I suppose after a defense curl and delaying the move with Sky Drop once, the next move will have its power multiplied 32-fold.

Uproar seems to be the only of these moves unaffected by this glitch. Using it again after the user was picked up by Sky Drop does not instantly end it after 1 turn. Also using Uproar after something like thrash was delayed will cause the confusion, but the user is still locked into Uproar.

Maybe there will be a video on this glitch sometime in the future, I informed Chickasaurus/Torchickens who wanted to take a look at this.
 
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Something I just thought of is that if Gen 5 is still like Gen 4, then the game could be seeing Uproar more as a weather effect rather than how it handles other multi turn moves. In Gen 4 it was one of the few moves that could activate the Acid Rain glitch:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Acid_rain

Also for Shuckle, make that sun boosted V-Create vs. a Dry Skin opponent X 32.
 
In the Generation 5 Games, consecutively executed moves like Thrash and Rollout interact weirdly with Sky Drop. In the case of Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage, if the Users turn is skipped while thrashing in the air, the Confusion-Counter does not advance. When the user is dropped and the thrashing move ends, he is not confused. However the Pokémon is confused upon executing any other move the next turn. If the next move is Thrash, Petal Dance, or Outrage, the move ends immediately after a single turn, and the user is not locked into the move.

Simlilar things happen with Rollout and Ice Ball. While in the air, it seems that the successive use-counter that multiplies the damage does not advance. When let down, every repetition deals only half the supposed damage. Since those moves last for 5 turns, this can be repeated once more. If Ice Ball or Rollout is used again after the previous one ended, the strength of the move is equal to the next hit of where the counter left off, but the Attack will end after 1 turn, even if the counter was delayed multpile times. If any other move is used after the counter was delayed, the power of the new move is multiplied instead that of Rollout/Ice Ball. The effects end after your next turn, even if you didn't attack. I suppose after a defense curl and delaying the move with Sky Drop once, the next move will have its power multiplied 32-fold.

Uproar seems to be the only of these moves unaffected by this glitch. Using it again after the user was picked up by Sky Drop does not instantly end it after 1 turn. Also using Uproar after something like thrash was delayed will cause the confusion, but the user is still locked into Uproar.

Maybe there will be a video on this glitch sometime in the future, I informed Chickasaurus/Torchickens who wanted to take a look at this.
In recent events the rollout glitch still works in Gen 6 and 7, albeit it works a bit differently there. For Gen 7, see for yourself in the Research Thread. In Gen 6 the Rollout Glitch behaves like a middle ground between the two. You can still delay the damage multiplier two times by having a turn of Rollout/Ice Ball attempt to execute while in midair during Sky Drop, and the next attack after the rollout streak will have its power multiplied by the strength of where the Counter left off. If Rollout/Ice Ball is performed this way, they will have their damage multiplied accordingly and end after a single turn.

However unlike in Gen 5, if you delay the Counter two times the glitch doesn't end after your next attack, even if you used Rollout/Ice Ball again. You can get an attack with an 8x-multiplier and a next one with a 16x-multiplier. The state of the counter also only advances if you use an attacking move, so you can delay the use of the glitch with status moves. However, unlike Gen 7, if you miss, your attack is ineffective, is blocked by protect, you can't move because of sleep and probably many more, the effects of the glitch go away. The glitch also disappears, if you rotate out during a Rotation Battle.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
Ok, I thought this one was really interesting. Usually external resources are reliable when it comes to old gen mechanics. Bulbapedia is probably accurate 90% of the time, and the holy grail of old gen info UltimatePokemonCenter is accurate like 99% of the time. However, I noticed an inconsistency between how both of them said weather-inducing moves in Gen 2 work, and how they work on the Showdown simulator.

In Gen 2, every online resource I'm familiar with says that every weather-inducing move can be used while its respective weather condition is active, and it'll supposedly reset the amount of turns that the weather condition is on the field. This is 100% accurate in-game for Rain Dance and Sunny Day. You'd assume Sandstorm would work the same way.

From bulbapedia:
Sandstorm: When this move is used, a sandstorm will brew. This effect will last for 5 turns. This clears any other weather and is usable when the weather is sandstorm.
From UPC:
The weather moves (Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Sandstorm) can be used at any time, even during weather. A weather move, when used, resets the number of turns of the effect to 5 (including the current turn) and cancels any other weather effect. A weather move will succeed even if the weather condition associated with it is in effect.
Both these websites seem to think so. However, on the simulator, this happened. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-739269140

You can see here that using Rain Dance and Sunny Day while the respective weather was already on the field worked just fine. The turns reset, nothing else happened. However, with Sandstorm, the move failed, and the turn counter didn't reset to 5. This intrigued me, so I had to load up the emulator and find out for myself who was correct.


Turns out Showdown had it right all along. Sandstorm will fail if it's used while a sandstorm is raging. Not sure what the code explanation for this little quirk is, but I figured I'd publicize it here since both the websites I usually consult had it wrong. Nice catch by the sim devs!
 
Turns out Showdown had it right all along. Sandstorm will fail if it's used while a sandstorm is raging. Not sure what the code explanation for this little quirk is, but I figured I'd publicize it here since both the websites I usually consult had it wrong. Nice catch by the sim devs!
Neat find. Indeed:

Code:
BattleCommand_StartSun: ; 37c07
; startsun
ld a, WEATHER_SUN
ld [wBattleWeather], a
ld a, 5
ld [wWeatherCount], a
call AnimateCurrentMove
ld hl, SunGotBrightText
jp StdBattleTextBox


BattleCommand_StartRain: ; 37bf4
; startrain
ld a, WEATHER_RAIN
ld [wBattleWeather], a
ld a, 5
ld [wWeatherCount], a
call AnimateCurrentMove
ld hl, DownpourText
jp StdBattleTextBox


BattleCommand_StartSandstorm: ; 376f8
; startsandstorm

ld a, [wBattleWeather]
cp WEATHER_SANDSTORM
jr z, .failed

ld a, WEATHER_SANDSTORM
ld [wBattleWeather], a
ld a, 5
ld [wWeatherCount], a
call AnimateCurrentMove
ld hl, SandstormBrewedText
jp StdBattleTextBox

.failed
call AnimateFailedMove
jp PrintButItFailed
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
More Gen 2 stuff. Ok, for those who didn't know, the UPC website's host expired or something, so it's gone now. I can't find a full cached version anywhere, so Bulbapedia is the "best" source for old gen stuff, and it's very frequently unreliable. So when I ran into an issue with Nightmare in a tournament game, I couldn't take their word for it - not to mention it was working the opposite on simulator of how Bulbapedia said it's supposed to work.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-759650249
Here you can see the Clefable's Nightmare effect continues despite Clefable waking up and putting itself back to sleep with Rest. I can link extra replays of this same interaction happening no matter how the afflicted Pokemon is put to sleep (self-induced, via opponent's Sleep-inducing move, etc.) but on simulator it's always the same.

Here's what happens on cartridge:

As you can see, Nightmare's effect wears off every time the afflicted Pokemon wakes up, and needs to be re-used on a sleeping Pokemon for the effect to become active again. Waking up should completely erase the effects of Nightmare. Again, this is what was stated on the Bulbapedia page, I'm posting this proof because I didn't see any previous video evidence that this is how it's supposed to work.
 

Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
Research Leader
[Nightmare stuff]
Thanks for catching this, but shouldn't this be in one of the bug threads instead?

This applies to all gens and actually worked on PS for years until some unrelated change with the Update event broke it. So I'm just gonna fix it in a way that can't accidentally break in the future.
 

Mathy

i'm not chien pao
is a Programmeris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Found some random quirks in Pokemon Battle Revolution but I'm not sure if they work the same way on the Gen IV DS titles. Thus, these should be tested on the DS titles before they are confirmed and before any follow-up research is done.

#1: Custap Berry Early Activation
PBR:
Showdown: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-834045065
Summary: In the PBR battle, Spiritomb's Custap Berry activated when it was at low health in the middle of the last turn, but it was well above the threshold at the beginning of the turn it activated. I infer that Custap silently "activates" any time the Pokemon is at low HP, telling the Pokemon to use it at the beginning of the next turn. This functionality is not present on Showdown.
To research: If the berry is taken between when the Pokemon is at low HP and the beginning of the next turn, does it still activate?

#2: Custap Berry Not Activating
PBR:
Showdown: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-834054315
Summary: In the PBR battle, Wurmple Endures into Custap range. On the next turn, Combusken Protects and Wurmple's Custap Berry doesn't activate that turn. Instead, it activates on the next turn. I infer that the Custap Berry doesn't activate if all other Pokemon have moved that turn, possibly similar to Protect failing for the same reason. This functionality is not present on Showdown.

#3: Bide doesn't get priority when called from another move
PBR:
Showdown: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-834051219
Summary: In the PBR battle, Red's Blaziken uses Metronome -> Bide. However, Blue's Blaziken is able to win the speed tie and move first during Bide's duration. This must mean that Bide is not getting its priority. I infer that Bide does not get priority on its subsequent turns if it is called from another move. This functionality is not present on Showdown. Also, I have tested on cartridge in Gen V and this quirk is not present.
 
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Lavos

Banned deucer.
There was an inconsistency between Showdown and Bulbapedia regarding Psywave's functionality in Gen II, so I had to check for myself. Fear brought this up in the GSC server, so thanks to him.

From Bulbapedia:
Psywave inflicts a random amount of damage, varying between 0.5× and 1.5× the user's level. The damage is always rounded down; however, Psywave will always deal at least 1 HP of damage.
On Showdown it's dealing between 1 HP and (1.5 x UserLevel) HP of damage, as you can see in this replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-845477043 (I wrote the damage dealt in the chat after every turn)

Tested on emulator:

A Level 7 Metapod in the wild has max HP between 24-26, and Misdreavus should be dealing between 7-21 damage at Level 14 with the stated formula, but you can clearly see the first two Psywaves deal less than 5 damage each.
Conclusion: Bulbapedia is wrong, again. Would be interested to see how Psywave works in Gens III and IV, because on their page it clumps the three generations together. If anyone can easily test it out and upload a video I'd appreciate it.
 
A Level 7 Metapod in the wild has max HP between 24-26, and Misdreavus should be dealing between 7-21 damage at Level 14 with the stated formula, but you can clearly see the first two Psywaves deal less than 5 damage each.
Conclusion: Bulbapedia is wrong, again. Would be interested to see how Psywave works in Gens III and IV, because on their page it clumps the three generations together. If anyone can easily test it out and upload a video I'd appreciate it.
So in Generation 2 it damages anywhere between 1 HP and 1.5 times the user's level? Your post was implying this, so I just wanted to make sure.
 

Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
Research Leader
Conclusion: Bulbapedia is wrong, again. Would be interested to see how Psywave works in Gens III and IV, because on their page it clumps the three generations together. If anyone can easily test it out and upload a video I'd appreciate it.
I did research on Psywave while I was rewriting every move description for every gen like 6 months ago, so every long description on the Smogdex about Psywave is correct now. https://www.smogon.com/dex/gs/moves/psywave/
 

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