Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon Battle Mechanics Research (Read Post #2)

[Hiddenfreezer]

I found a bug with a Z-Move ingame, but I don't want to waste anyone's time:

Devastating Drake
100 -->180

Why does Core Enforcer with Base Power of 100 only do 140 damage? Does GameFreak hate Zygarde that much?

 

[Siggu]

I found a bug with a Z-Move ingame, but I don't want to waste anyone's time:

Devastating Drake
100 -->180

Why does Core Enforcer with Base Power of 100 only do 140 damage? Does GameFreak hate Zygarde that much?

Now that you mention it, it's quite odd indeed, seeing that Devastating Drake from Dragon Claw has 20 more BP despite the base move having 20 less BP.

I call it an oversight.

 

[dhelmise]

I found a bug with a Z-Move ingame, but I don't want to waste anyone's time:

Devastating Drake
100 -->180

Why does Core Enforcer with Base Power of 100 only do 140 damage? Does GameFreak hate Zygarde that much?

core enforcer goes to 140 on ps too...? this isnt really a bug and im not sure what this is going over

 

[Hugin]

There’s a handful of moves that get different powers than they should. In some cases it’s obvious why(Weather Ball and Gear Grind have actual BPs far lower than what they really do in-battle), but Core Enforcer and Flying Press get nerfed and IDK why.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Z-Move#Power

 

[Worldie]

There's also cases of moves like Hex who have higher BP than they should (same as shadowball in Z version).

To me it looks like those are intended for reasons not given to us.

 

[atsync]

Apologies if this is known information but I couldn't find this mentioned anywhere.

There's been a change from 6th gen to 7th gen in regards to how Symbiosis works with Gems. In XY, it worked as follows:

Gem consumed --> Symbiosis activates and item is passed on --> attack used

But when I tried this in SM/USUM, it went like this:

Gem consumed --> attack used --> Symbiosis activates and item is passed on (this occurs before anyone else attacks, assuming there are slower Pokemon on the field that haven't moved yet)

This has implications on how these can be used. For example, in 6th gen, it was possible to stack Gem boosts with a boost from an item. You can have, say, Normal Gem Swellow consume the gem with Boomburst and then immediately have Florges pass a Choice Specs to it to launch a Gem+Specs-boosted Boomburst. But in 7th gen this no longer works: in this same example Swellow will simply use the Gem-boosted Boomburst and then the Specs would be given to it immediately after.

I don't know if there are any other changes with Symbiosis and other items (aside from the Eject Button glitch fix).

 

[stage7_4]

If a pokemon with Reckless uses a contact recoil move like Head Smash against a pokemon with Mummy, what happens to both the damage dealt and the recoil received?

Came up in the post-game fight against Ghetsis, where he spread mummy to my pokemon and then used Bouffalant. In-game the order went damage, ability-change from Reckless to Mummy, then the recoil and while I can't know for sure it seemed like the recoil damage was lower than it should have been.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

If a pokemon with Reckless uses a contact recoil move like Head Smash against a pokemon with Mummy, what happens to both the damage dealt and the recoil received?

Came up in the post-game fight against Ghetsis, where he spread mummy to my pokemon and then used Bouffalant. In-game the order went damage, ability-change from Reckless to Mummy, then the recoil and while I can't know for sure it seemed like the recoil damage was lower than it should have been.

Reckless doesn't directly increase recoil, but rather the damage dealt by recoil attacks. The reason the recoil seemed low might have been because Head Charge's recoil is 1/4 of the damage dealt instead of the usual 1/3.

 

[TrainerX493]

Apologies if this is known information but I couldn't find this mentioned anywhere.

There's been a change from 6th gen to 7th gen in regards to how Symbiosis works with Gems. In XY, it worked as follows:

Gem consumed --> Symbiosis activates and item is passed on --> attack used

But when I tried this in SM/USUM, it went like this:

Gem consumed --> attack used --> Symbiosis activates and item is passed on (this occurs before anyone else attacks, assuming there are slower Pokemon on the field that haven't moved yet)

This has implications on how these can be used. For example, in 6th gen, it was possible to stack Gem boosts with a boost from an item. You can have, say, Normal Gem Swellow consume the gem with Boomburst and then immediately have Florges pass a Choice Specs to it to launch a Gem+Specs-boosted Boomburst. But in 7th gen this no longer works: in this same example Swellow will simply use the Gem-boosted Boomburst and then the Specs would be given to it immediately after.

I don't know if there are any other changes with Symbiosis and other items (aside from the Eject Button glitch fix).

This should apply with berrys as well, right? Also it makes me wonder if you can stack Gem boost in Gen 6 by using 2/3 Gems in the same turn.

 

[atsync]

Nah, gem stacking for a single attack never worked in 6th gen. Any gem that is transferred by Symbiosis isn't consumed on the same turn that the first one is used.

I'm not in a position where I can test anything else at the moment. I'm not entirely sure how Symbiosis worked with berry consumption in 6th gen (e.g. with Natural Gift or Fling) but if it worked like gems then it might be worth testing in 7th gen to see if it was also changed.

 

[david0895]

If an -ate pokemon use a normal move after Plasma Fists, is the type of that move changed to Electric?

 

[Worldie]

Current ingame mechanic iirc is that the move is converted to Electric, thus does NOT gain -ate effect as it's no longer Normal type.

I believe it's actually written in the datamine thread.

 

[DragonWhale]

A new bug was discovered concerning the interaction between the move Rollout/Ice Ball and Disguise. TL;DR: if one of the Rollout/Ice Ball hits Mimikyu's Disguise, an attacking move used after Rollout/Ice Ball goes through all 5 hits will have 16x power (32x if they used Defense Curl).

Video (in Japanese)

Basically, when Rollout hits a Disguise, the Rollout counter goes up by one (maxes at 5) but the damage multiplier does not. However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses. What this creates is a situation where Rollout 5 hits with the damage of Rollout 4, and the next attacking move used after will have Rollout 5's damage multiplier added to it.

Here's what normally happens (parentheses is if Defense Curl was used):

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: 30 x 4(8)
Rollout 4: 30 x 8(16)
Rollout 5: 30 x 16(32)

Next attack: BP x 1

This is what happens if one of the hits was on a Disguise:

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: Disguise
Rollout 4: 30 x 4(8)
Rollout 5: 30 x 8(16)
You can use any status move before your next attack
Next attack: BP x 16(32) (note: If Rollout/Ice Ball was used, it would not lock you in, it would just fire Rollout 5 and you can move select again)

The video shows this with a +6 Level 1 Geodude OHKO-ing a Level 100 Gyarados using a Life Orb boosted Explosion with a 32x multiplier.

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Galvanize Geodude-Alola Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 16-21 (4.8 - 6.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Basically, the 32x multiplier does indeed get applied.

NEW MAX DAMAGE (not important to mechanics, but just for fun lol)

With this bug, we can obtain a damage output that surpasses the Ice Ball Shuckle scenario in Gen 6, even without triple battles where two Helping Hands and Flower Gifts were in play. The cool thing about this is that instead of a Shuckle, the only Pokemon capable of achieving this combination is A GEN 3 PIKACHU WITH EGG MOVE 'CHARGE', transferred over to SM.

So, why Pikachu, and in particular, Gen 3? Well, in order for this particular combination to work, Pikachu needs to have 3 important moves that are Move Tutor moves only obtainable in Emerald: Defense Curl, Rollout, and Mimic. "Yeah, but many Pokemon can learn those moves, including Shuckle that can reach 614 Attack". Well, the difference comes with held items. In order for the "6th hit" with the 32x multiplier to work, Metronome (the item) will not be able to add the item multiplier unless Shuckle uses Rollout again (which sucks because the 32x multiplier goes to a 30BP move). Light Ball, on the other hand, adds the x2 multiplier no matter when and what move is used.

"But Pikachu's max attack is 229! It's too small!" Well, thanks to Power Split, Shuckle can raise a Pokemon's attack stat to 613 attack by using it in tandem with Power Trick. After using this combination 10 times, ANY Pokemon will eventually have 613 Attack.

Basically, Pikachu will have an attack stat that is really similar to Power Trick'd Shuckle, but unlike Shuckle it will be able to use any move to have the 32x multiplier while keeping the 2x item multiplier thanks to Light Ball. What is the move going to be? It will be Power Trip, that will be called using Me First, that will be learned using Mimic. Also, Heliolisk will use Electrify on Pikachu so that Power Trip will become an Electric-type move, and Pikachu will use Charge the turn before so the damage is doubled even further, and Electric Terrain will be in play.

The target will be a Level 1 Smeargle that used Reflect Type to get Water/Flying typing, and has Power Trip. Smeargle is handy because it can have any move and at Level 1 and -6 debuffs it'll have 1 Defense stat anyway.

Start the Double Battle. First, Pikachu will be Power Splited until it reaches 613 Attack, Skill Swapped Huge Power, uses Rollout (1 of the moves will hit disguise) to activate the Rollout-Disguise bug, learns Me First via Mimic, and gets +6 on all stats so that Power Trip has 860BP. Pikachu also uses Charge the turn before the BIG HIT.

Right next to Pikachu will be Flower Gift Cherrim who uses Helping Hand while the sunlight is harsh.

On the other side, Heliolisk will use Electric Terrain the turn before, and uses Electrify on Pikachu so that Pikachu's attacks will all become Electric Type that turn.

Right next to the Heliolisk is the target Level 1 Smeargle at -6 Defense with Water/Flying typing, who uses Power Trip on Pikachu so that Pikachu's Me First will turn into Power Trip.

A Charge + Me First + Helping Hand + Flower Gift-Boosted Electric Type 860BP Power Trip that is boosted by a factor of 32 under Electric Terrain from a 613 Attack Huge Power Pikachu holding a Light Ball hits a Level 1 Water/Flying Smeargle with -6 Defenses...and the move crits. This is going to hurt.

After careful damage calculations taking order of operation seriously (since sadly the online damage calc doesn't let you input 27520 BP), I got the following number. (Note: the Shuckle column is for the Triple Battle Ice Ball against a Forest's Cursed Noibat, for comparison. Green multipliers affect the BP, Red multipliers affect the attack stat, and white multipliers are applied after base damage is calculated.)

This move does 20,660,732,484 DAMAGE. I don't know how the game handles damage numbers, but since Int is limited to a little over 2 billion, I'm not sure if the game is able to handle damage of this degree LOL. This assumes Me First doesn't mess up the Rollout-Disguise bugged multiplier, but even then you can just Mimic Power Trip instead and still end up with 13,773,821,656 damage, which is still way above the Shuckle scenario in Generation 6, even if you tried to abuse the Symbiosis glitch.

EDIT: I think "Rollout Storage" is a good name for this glitch :)

 

[Snackhound]

A new bug was discovered concerning the interaction between the move Rollout/Ice Ball and Disguise. TL;DR: if one of the Rollout/Ice Ball hits Mimikyu's Disguise, an attacking move used after Rollout/Ice Ball goes through all 5 hits will have 16x power (32x if they used Defense Curl).

Video (in Japanese)

Basically, when Rollout hits a Disguise, the Rollout counter goes up by one (maxes at 5) but the damage multiplier does not. However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses. What this creates is a situation where Rollout 5 hits with the damage of Rollout 4, and the next attacking move used after will have Rollout 5's damage multiplier added to it.

Here's what normally happens (parentheses is if Defense Curl was used):

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: 30 x 4(8)
Rollout 4: 30 x 8(16)
Rollout 5: 30 x 16(32)

Next attack: BP x 1

This is what happens if one of the hits was on a Disguise:

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: Disguise
Rollout 4: 30 x 4(8)
Rollout 5: 30 x 8(16)
You can use any status move before your next attack
Next attack: BP x 16(32) (note: If Rollout/Ice Ball was used, it would not lock you in, it would just fire Rollout 5 and you can move select again)

The video shows this with a +6 Level 1 Geodude OHKO-ing a Level 100 Gyarados using a Life Orb boosted Explosion with a 32x multiplier.

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Galvanize Geodude-Alola Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 16-21 (4.8 - 6.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Basically, the 32x multiplier does indeed get applied.

NEW MAX DAMAGE (not important to mechanics, but just for fun lol)

With this bug, we can obtain a damage output that surpasses the Ice Ball Shuckle scenario in Gen 6, even without triple battles where two Helping Hands and Flower Gifts were in play. The cool thing about this is that instead of a Shuckle, the only Pokemon capable of achieving this combination is A GEN 3 PIKACHU WITH EGG MOVE 'CHARGE', transferred over to SM.

So, why Pikachu, and in particular, Gen 3? Well, in order for this particular combination to work, Pikachu needs to have 3 important moves that are Move Tutor moves only obtainable in Emerald: Defense Curl, Rollout, and Mimic. "Yeah, but many Pokemon can learn those moves, including Shuckle that can reach 614 Attack". Well, the difference comes with held items. In order for the "6th hit" with the 32x multiplier to work, Metronome (the item) will not be able to add the item multiplier unless Shuckle uses Rollout again (which sucks because the 32x multiplier goes to a 30BP move). Light Ball, on the other hand, adds the x2 multiplier no matter when and what move is used.

"But Pikachu's max attack is 229! It's too small!" Well, thanks to Power Split, Shuckle can raise a Pokemon's attack stat to 613 attack by using it in tandem with Power Trick. After using this combination 10 times, ANY Pokemon will eventually have 613 Attack.

Basically, Pikachu will have an attack stat that is really similar to Power Trick'd Shuckle, but unlike Shuckle it will be able to use any move to have the 32x multiplier while keeping the 2x item multiplier thanks to Light Ball. What is the move going to be? It will be Power Trip, that will be called using Me First, that will be learned using Mimic. Also, Heliolisk will use Electrify on Pikachu so that Power Trip will become an Electric-type move, and Pikachu will use Charge the turn before so the damage is doubled even further, and Electric Terrain will be in play.

The target will be a Level 1 Smeargle that used Reflect Type to get Water/Flying typing, and has Power Trip. Smeargle is handy because it can have any move and at Level 1 and -6 debuffs it'll have 1 Defense stat anyway.

Start the Double Battle. First, Pikachu will be Power Splited until it reaches 613 Attack, Skill Swapped Huge Power, uses Rollout (1 of the moves will hit disguise) to activate the Rollout-Disguise bug, learns Me First via Mimic, and gets +6 on all stats so that Power Trip has 860BP. Pikachu also uses Charge the turn before the BIG HIT.

Right next to Pikachu will be Flower Gift Cherrim who uses Helping Hand while the sunlight is harsh.

On the other side, Heliolisk will use Electric Terrain the turn before, and uses Electrify on Pikachu so that Pikachu's attacks will all become Electric Type that turn.

Right next to the Heliolisk is the target Level 1 Smeargle at -6 Defense with Water/Flying typing, who uses Power Trip on Pikachu so that Pikachu's Me First will turn into Power Trip.

A Charge + Me First + Helping Hand + Flower Gift-Boosted Electric Type 860BP Power Trip that is boosted by a factor of 32 under Electric Terrain from a 613 Attack Huge Power Pikachu holding a Light Ball hits a Level 1 Water/Flying Smeargle with -6 Defenses...and the move crits. This is going to hurt.

After careful damage calculations taking order of operation seriously (since sadly the online damage calc doesn't let you input 27520 BP), I got the following number. (Note: the Shuckle column is for the Triple Battle Ice Ball against a Forest's Cursed Noibat, for comparison. Green multipliers affect the BP, Red multipliers affect the attack stat, and white multipliers are applied after base damage is calculated.)

This move does 20,660,732,484 DAMAGE. I don't know how the game handles damage numbers, but since Int is limited to a little over 2 billion, I'm not sure if the game is able to handle damage of this degree LOL. This assumes Me First doesn't mess up the Rollout-Disguise bugged multiplier, but even then you can just Mimic Power Trip instead and still end up with 13,773,821,656 damage, which is still way above the Shuckle scenario in Generation 6, even if you tried to abuse the Symbiosis glitch.

Well look at that. This sounds eerily similiar to a glitch with Sky Drop I discovered just 2 weeks ago in Gen 5. Except back then the power would reset after the next move, no matter how often the counter was put on halt. Another difference I just confirmed is that Disguise does not have a faulty interaction with Petal Dance, like Thrash/Outrage/Petal Dance did with the Sky Drop Glitch in Gen 5. But maybe there is still more to be discovered.

 

[DragonWhale]

Well look at that. This sounds eerily similiar to a glitch with Sky Drop I discovered just 2 weeks ago in Gen 5. Except back then the power would reset after the next move, no matter how often the counter was put on halt. Another difference I just confirmed is that Disguise does not have a faulty interaction with Petal Dance, like Thrash/Outrage/Petal Dance did with the Sky Drop Glitch in Gen 5. But maybe there is still more to be discovered.

Wow yeah sounds really similar. I haven't tested but Rollout may still interact that way with Sky Drop if it did so with Disguise.

Btw, what do you mean "except back then the power would reset after the next move"? Rollout-Disguise will reset the multiplier after you use the Rollout 5 multiplier as well.

 

[Snackhound]

Wow yeah sounds really similar. I haven't tested but Rollout may still interact that way with Sky Drop if it did so with Disguise.

Btw, what do you mean "except back then the power would reset after the next move"? Rollout-Disguise will reset the multiplier after you use the Rollout 5 multiplier as well.

Either I have completely misread something or it is now gone with whatever edit you have made while I took my sweet time to test it with petal dance. Wasn't there a section with something like this in your post?

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: Disguise
Rollout 4: Disguise
Rollout 5: 30 x 4(8)

Combined with "However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses ." This would imply that after hitting disguise twice during a single rollout, the next attack would have a power the power multiplier of rollout 4, and the one after that of rollout 5. Maybe I just misinterpreted "What this creates is a situation where Rollout 5 hits with the damage of Rollout 4, and the next attacking move used after will have Rollout 5's damage multiplier added to it." when I skimmed over the text anew.

However, if it isn't known then it should be tested once more.

 

[DragonWhale]

Either I have completely misread something or it is now gone with whatever edit you have made while I took my sweet time to test it with petal dance. Wasn't there a section with something like this in your post?

Rollout 1: 30 x 1(2)
Rollout 2: 30 x 2(4)
Rollout 3: Disguise
Rollout 4: Disguise
Rollout 5: 30 x 4(8)

Combined with "However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses ." This would imply that after hitting disguise twice during a single rollout, the next attack would have a power the power multiplier of rollout 4, and the one after that of rollout 5. Maybe I just misinterpreted "What this creates is a situation where Rollout 5 hits with the damage of Rollout 4, and the next attacking move used after will have Rollout 5's damage multiplier added to it." when I skimmed over the text anew.

However, if it isn't known then it should be tested once more.

Ah yeah, according to @5:13 on the video, the multiplier does indeed keep going if multiple hits were "not counted" by disguise.

 

[Snackhound]

Ah yeah, according to @5:13 on the video, the multiplier does indeed keep going if multiple hits were "not counted" by disguise.

Ok this is really strange. I used Ice Ball 4 Times against 4 disguised Mimikyu, and sure enough the power of my Rapid Spin was doubled each time for the next 4 consecutive executions.

Next I used it 2 Times against 2 Disguises to test a successive use of Ice Ball after the former ran out. After I select Ice Ball anew it hits wih the power of Ice Ball 4 and I am not locked into the move. I select Ice Ball again and it hits with the power of Ice Ball 5! I am still not locked into Ice Ball. Everything behaves normal again after that.

Oh, and how it was mentioned that "However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses"? This doesn't apply if the move that missed is not Rollout/Ice Ball. I delayed the counter 4 Times again, and using an attack against Protect would neither break the chain nor advance the counter. Same thing happend when I wasted 5 Turns inbetween by Rapid Spinning into Mimikyu. Running into Protect with a new iteration of Ice Ball/Rollout however would reset everything.

Intercepting all 5 Hits with Disguise doesn't bring anything special with it. I thought the glitch might cancel itself out, because the counter never advanced, but the next 5 hits will have their power increased.

 

[DragonWhale]

Ok this is really strange. I used Ice Ball 4 Times against 4 disguised Mimikyu, and sure enough the power of my Rapid Spin was doubled each time for the next 4 consecutive executions.

Next I used it 2 Times against 2 Disguises to test a successive use of Ice Ball after the former ran out. After I select Ice Ball anew it hits wih the power of Ice Ball 4 and I am not locked into the move. I select Ice Ball again and it hits with the power of Ice Ball 5! I am still not locked into Ice Ball. Everything behaves normal again after that.

Oh, and how it was mentioned that "However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses"? This doesn't apply if the move that missed is not Rollout/Ice Ball. I delayed the counter 4 Times again, and using an attack against Protect would neither break the chain nor advance the counter. Same thing happend when I wasted 5 Turns inbetween by Rapid Spinning into Mimikyu. Running into Protect with a new iteration of Ice Ball/Rollout however would reset everything.

Intercepting all 5 Hits with Disguise doesn't bring anything special with it. I thought the glitch might cancel itself out, because the counter never advanced, but the next 5 hits will have their power increased.

Oh wow it's a lot deeper than I thought. So to summarize:

• Disguise increments Rollout #, but not Rollout Multiplier. Even all 5 multipliers can be delayed.
• Rollout Multiplier does not reset unless a Rollout/Ice Ball fails
• Pokemon using Rollout/Ice Ball during this state will not be locked into Rollout/Ice Ball
• Rollout Multiplier increases for every successful move, even if it's not Rollout/Ice Ball, until it hits Rollout Multiplier 5

Is this correct?

 

[Siggu]

Given that weird Sky Drop/Rollout and Ice Ball glitch from Gen V behaves in a very similar way to this Disguise/Rollout and Ice Ball glitch... could it be that the former glitch also exists in Gen VII? Perhaps both are merely scenarios of a single bug.

I mean, there was that glitch about Choice items locking moves even when items were prevented from working that happened to already exist in previous generations, yet it took Dancer for us to realize there was such a glitch...

 

[pyuk]

Ok this is really strange. I used Ice Ball 4 Times against 4 disguised Mimikyu, and sure enough the power of my Rapid Spin was doubled each time for the next 4 consecutive executions.

Next I used it 2 Times against 2 Disguises to test a successive use of Ice Ball after the former ran out. After I select Ice Ball anew it hits wih the power of Ice Ball 4 and I am not locked into the move. I select Ice Ball again and it hits with the power of Ice Ball 5! I am still not locked into Ice Ball. Everything behaves normal again after that.

Oh, and how it was mentioned that "However, the game is coded to keep increasing the multiplier until it reaches 16x/32x, or if the attacking move misses"? This doesn't apply if the move that missed is not Rollout/Ice Ball. I delayed the counter 4 Times again, and using an attack against Protect would neither break the chain nor advance the counter. Same thing happend when I wasted 5 Turns inbetween by Rapid Spinning into Mimikyu. Running into Protect with a new iteration of Ice Ball/Rollout however would reset everything.

Intercepting all 5 Hits with Disguise doesn't bring anything special with it. I thought the glitch might cancel itself out, because the counter never advanced, but the next 5 hits will have their power increased.

What if the original move used is Rollout with one or more hits breaking Disguise, and then the user uses Ice Ball into Protect, or vice versa? Will the multiplier reset?

 

[Snackhound]

Oh wow it's a lot deeper than I thought. So to summarize:

• Disguise increments Rollout #, but not Rollout Multiplier. Even all 5 multipliers can be delayed.
• Rollout Multiplier does not reset unless a Rollout/Ice Ball fails
• Pokemon using Rollout/Ice Ball during this state will not be locked into Rollout/Ice Ball
• Rollout Multiplier increases for every successful move, even if it's not Rollout/Ice Ball, until it hits Rollout Multiplier 5

Is this correct?

Sounds about right. No objections there.

Given that weird Sky Drop/Rollout and Ice Ball glitch from Gen V behaves in a very similar way to this Disguise/Rollout and Ice Ball glitch... could it be that the former glitch also exists in Gen VII? Perhaps both are merely scenarios of a single bug.

I mean, there was that glitch about Choice items locking moves even when items were prevented from working that happened to already exist in previous generations, yet it took Dancer for us to realize there was such a glitch...

I tested it with thrash in Gen 6 and Gen 7 before i posed it in the Past Generations Research thread. Only later i figured out it worked with rollout as well. But i already deduced that glitch didn't exist in those Generations. I tried it again in SM and it did work. Seems like Sky Drop + Thrash/Outrage/Petal Dance and Sky Drop + Rollout/Ice Ball are two different kinds of glitches. I'll have to test it in Gen 6, wether it works more like it did in Gen 5 or Gen 7.

What if the original move used is Rollout with one or more hits breaking Disguise, and then the user uses Ice Ball into Protect, or vice versa? Will the multiplier reset?

Oof, I don't have the resources to test that. I'd have to breed Rollout onto a spheal or use smeargle, but there is nothing appropriate in the wild that learns Ice Ball.


I also found something unrelated completely by accident. Normally, if you use Sleep Talk and call Rollout/Ice Ball or Petal Dance/Outrage/Trash, you do not get locked into the move. However, if Komala uses these moves via Sleep Talk instead, it does get locked into the respective move. This is wrongly implemented in the simulation, the Komala part is right, but every other Mon that calls this move via Sleep Talk while sleeping also gets locked into it.

 

[SadisticMystic]

This assumes Me First doesn't mess up the Rollout-Disguise bugged multiplier, but even then you can just Mimic Power Trip instead and still end up with 13,773,821,656 damage, which is still way above the Shuckle scenario in Generation 6, even if you tried to abuse the Symbiosis glitch.

If you mimic Power Trip directly instead of Me First, then you free up Smeargle's move on the final turn, which means that move can be Instruct to achieve complete parity with a Me First bonus, like in this older setup

 

[urkerab]

I also found something unrelated completely by accident. Normally, if you use Sleep Talk and call Rollout/Ice Ball or Petal Dance/Outrage/Trash, you do not get locked into the move. However, if Komala uses these moves via Sleep Talk instead, it does get locked into the respective move. This is wrongly implemented in the simulation, the Komala part is right, but every other Mon that calls this move via Sleep Talk while sleeping also gets locked into it.

I just tried this out myself and while Komala got locked into Thrash, if I used Breloom to Spore a different Pokémon that only had Sleep Talk and Thrash then Sleep Talk called Thrash but it didsn't get locked in.

 

[Snackhound]

I just tried this out myself and while Komala got locked into Thrash, if I used Breloom to Spore a different Pokémon that only had Sleep Talk and Thrash then Sleep Talk called Thrash but it didsn't get locked in.

Tried it out in the simulator? I thoroughly tested Rollout and Thrash on cartridge, but only Ice ball/Rollout under different Sleep Scenarios in the Simulator. Then its a failure on both our parts for not checking the other move family. I even provided a Screenshot in the Bug Report.