Pet Mods General thread

[Redolent]

I was including STAB too, so 1.5*1.5 = 2.25, or am I forgetting something?

Oh, you're right actually. It is stronger.

Adaptability's a 1.33x boost?

Yeah, I always thought it was a 1.5x extra boost to STAB moves (e.g. thought Mega Lucario's Close Combat was effectively 180BP, not 160BP) but now that I look it up that is correct.



So I guess that Mega Lucario's priority would be stronger than before, we'd have to see how that goes, but it won't have quite that wallbreaking power so it should be alright.

I'll also have to reconsider whether Adaptability Dodrio should lose Brave Bird, it doesn't seem quite so overpowered to me now and it doesn't have useful coverage moves like Close Combat as Staraptor does. For comparison,

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 224-264 (53.3 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

They would perform really similar roles but I suppose that's just what happens when Game Freak uses the 'fast and strong Normal/Flying type' concept over and over

 

[Mr155551]

you do need a covorage move on dodrio remember how talon gets flare blitz and raptor gets close combat and braviary get superpower could give dodrio superpower at least

 

[En Passant]

You could take advantage of it being based on a flightless bird and give it Earthquake and/or a Ground-typing.

 

[Redolent]

I know some people really don't like this decision but I'm gonna have to insist that retypings won't be part of PBM. It's quite counterintuitive to think of Dodrio as a Pokémon that's neutral to Rock, weak to Water and immune to Electric. Retype a dozen more Pokémon on top of that and PBM goes from being relatively accessible to pretty complicated with loads of new type matchups to learn. I think it's fine for focused things like the OU Theorymon Project but not widescale overhauls like PBM.

Onto Dodrio. Staraptor's Brave Bird is one the strongest moves in the metagame but Dodrio's with Adaptability is even stronger at around 160BP. Its Return is about 135BP with no drawbacks. It has ability-boosted Quick Attack to compensate for its Speed and U-turn to bounce off its counters. It does have Knock Off so it's not totally walled. I feel like this is a really dangerous Pokémon as it is and its inability to break Rocks and Steels helps keep it in check.

Staraptor's ability to do that with Close Combat is the equaliser that makes it worth using over Dodrio, so if we give Dodrio that ability too it becomes like a better Staraptor and nearly impossible to wall. I accept that being useless against two common types is a blow but things like Earthquake and Superpower are too strong and not overly flavor-friendly. How about we give it the move Wild Charge? Wild Charge at least lets it do better against Staraptor's nemesis Skarmory. If it proves underwhelming we could give it Drill Run. Unless anyone has any further suggestions I think Wild Charge is the best middle ground.

 

[a__man]

I thought Drill Run was Fearow's thing, but that's something else entirely. The power difference between Staraptor and Dodrio isn't too much (around 5% difference on a 0/0 Mew) and Dodrio is less bulkier (Reckless Double Edge also out damages Return and even if Dodrio used Double Edge there's only a slight increase in power).

252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 150-178 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Yeah, I think Wild Charge is the best option.

I had a general question about the purpose of the metagame... is its goal to make everything balanced, viable, or to have at least one niche?

 

[Redolent]

I thought Drill Run was Fearow's thing, but that's something else entirely. The power difference between Staraptor and Dodrio isn't too much (around 5% difference on a 0/0 Mew) and Dodrio is less bulkier (Reckless Double Edge also out damages Return and even if Dodrio used Double Edge there's only a slight increase in power).

252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 150-178 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Yeah, I think Wild Charge is the best option.

I had a general question about the purpose of the metagame... is its goal to make everything balanced, viable, or to have at least one niche?

Yeah it is, that's another good reason not to give it out, Fearow will want its niche too. Might make the next preview about gen 1's Normal/Flying birds since they all look more or less done now.

It's really a combination of all three. If we could make a perfectly balanced metagame where everything is viable, that would be ideal, but since that won't be possible trying to give as many things as possible some unique niche is probably our most realistic goal.

 

[a__man]

Yeah it is, that's another good reason not to give it out, Fearow will want its niche too. Might make the next preview about gen 1's Normal/Flying birds since they all look more or less done now.

So that's Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio and Farfetch'd, right? There's obviously one of them who needs a little more help than others.

 

[Redolent]

So that's Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio and Farfetch'd, right? There's obviously one of them who needs a little more help than others.

Yeah, it's just about sorted though - Farfetch'd has a really fun niche now. I had typed up a nice preview for it but the site stopped saving it so it's gone now. Ugh.

I've got a major exam about two weeks from now so my presence on this site will be just about 0 until then, but once it's done it'll probably be about time for me to finally publicly release the full thread, full initial changelist and so on

 

[Redolent]

One last preview before I submit this thing to have its own full thread sometime relatively soon.

I'm still busy with revision/exams so I'm only focusing on one Pokémon, but it's a Pokémon that plays a pretty huge and famous role in terms of team support.

​

PBM Preview 6: Ninetales and the return of Sun

Ninetales

Base Stats: Unchanged (73 HP / 76 Atk / 75 Def / 81 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe)
Movepool: +Memento, Morning Sun, Tailwind
Abilities: Flash Fire / Drought / Cursed Body
​

These changes are designed to significantly improve Ninetales' ability to support her team in a flavorful way, helping to re-establish Sun teams as a viable force in the Overused metagame.

Morning Sun pairs extremely well with Drought, giving Ninetales a massive 67% recovery move to make up for her at times sub-par defensive stats. A defensive Ninetales with this move is durable enough to counter the likes of Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor and even Assault Vest Azumarill. Ninetales acting as a genuinely solid defensive team supporter is particularly good for the currently never-seen playstyle sun stall, which uses less seen abilities such as Harvest and healing moves like Synthesis and Moonlight.

For more offensive sun teams, Tailwind is a perfect support move. While Swift Swim Pokémon can generally hit hard with boosted Water moves and have doubled Speed at the same time, there are no Fire-type Pokémon that can abuse Chlorophyll. Tailwind means that Fire-types and Solar Power Pokémon can finally use the combination of boosted Speed and weather-boosted attacks to punch through opposing teams as rain teams do, and Memento should allow even the frail ones to enter the battle unscathed.

Ninetales can't single-handedly make the sun playstyle viable again, but as an improved core it should combine well with the other improved sun Pokemon to bring it up to the standard of its rivals.

 

[Monte Cristo]

One last preview before I submit this thing to have its own full thread sometime relatively soon.

I'm still busy with revision/exams so I'm only focusing on one Pokémon, but it's a Pokémon that plays a pretty huge and famous role in terms of team support.

​

PBM Preview 6: Ninetales and the return of Sun

Ninetales

Base Stats: Unchanged (73 HP / 76 Atk / 75 Def / 81 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe)
Movepool: +Memento, Morning Sun, Tailwind
Abilities: Flash Fire / Drought / Cursed Body
​

These changes are designed to significantly improve Ninetales' ability to support her team in a flavorful way, helping to re-establish Sun teams as a viable force in the Overused metagame.

Morning Sun pairs extremely well with Drought, giving Ninetales a massive 67% recovery move to make up for her at times sub-par defensive stats. A defensive Ninetales with this move is durable enough to counter the likes of Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor and even Assault Vest Azumarill. Ninetales acting as a genuinely solid defensive team supporter is particularly good for the currently never-seen playstyle sun stall, which uses less seen abilities such as Harvest and healing moves like Synthesis and Moonlight.

For more offensive sun teams, Tailwind is a perfect support move. While Swift Swim Pokémon can generally hit hard with boosted Water moves and have doubled Speed at the same time, there are no Fire-type Pokémon that can abuse Chlorophyll. Tailwind means that Fire-types and Solar Power Pokémon can finally use the combination of boosted Speed and weather-boosted attacks to punch through opposing teams as rain teams do, and Memento should allow even the frail ones to enter the battle unscathed.

I personally don't get how this would be that good for sun. While 8 turns sure is cool compared to Zard Y- as a standalone Zard Y is better in every way- but lets go with the support argument. I would literally use Tailwind on anything else compared to Ninetales which has no priority on it (gale wings, prankster), no high speed to abuse it, no bulk, and no power to threaten defensive teams with.

Morning sun is also wasted as Ninetales defensive aspect is horrid, with no subtype to take advantage of the potential defensive aspect fire typing has(see: stalltini, stall zard X, stall zard Y) and not real good overall bulk.

I hate to say it but- this is REALLY A HUGE OVERSTATEMENT to say sun will come back. You don't fix Ninetales' biggest issues which could have been solved with certain movepool adaptions or typing but you instead chose to waste it imo. Not a big fan of it.

Also adding Cursed Body is 100% for sure wasted- as nobody will ever consider it for anything except newer people trying to use it for it's sun role (which also sucks btw)

Not trying to be a douche, just providing criticism from a heavy OU player's standpoint

 

[Redolent]

I personally don't get how this would be that good for sun. While 8 turns sure is cool compared to Zard Y- as a standalone Zard Y is better in every way- but lets go with the support argument. I would literally use Tailwind on anything else compared to Ninetales which has no priority on it (gale wings, prankster), no high speed to abuse it, no bulk, and no power to threaten defensive teams with.

Morning sun is also wasted as Ninetales defensive aspect is horrid, with no subtype to take advantage of the potential defensive aspect fire typing has(see: stalltini, stall zard X, stall zard Y) and not real good overall bulk.

I hate to say it but- this is REALLY A HUGE OVERSTATEMENT to say sun will come back. You don't fix Ninetales' biggest issues which could have been solved with certain movepool adaptions or typing but you instead chose to waste it imo. Not a big fan of it.

Also adding Cursed Body is 100% for sure wasted- as nobody will ever consider it for anything except newer people trying to use it for it's sun role (which also sucks btw)

Not trying to be a douche, just providing criticism from a heavy OU player's standpoint

Zard Y has quite a few problems like its massive Stealth Rock weakness and the fact you can't use it with other Megas like Houndoom (it's hard to say how much of a threat this will actually be, it's decent even without sun). Memento makes up for Tailwind's lack of priority, as it means Ninetales can set up weather, Tailwind and drop its opponents offences in the space of two turns, making it more efficient on a per turn basis than, say, Rain Dance + Tailwind Tornadus.

I don't think Ninetales is defensively horrid at all, as the post explains it can take back over 70% of its HP in one turn with Morning Sun + Leftovers which is huge and easily offsets its mediocre stats. Mono Fire typing is actually decent defensively in gen 6 with the addition of Fairies and increased prominence of offensive Steel attacks. It covers Pokemon like Scizor and Mega Mawile near flawlessly. It can Will-O-Wisp Tyranitar and avoid the 2HKO. It's much more capable of stopping threats than something like Bold Politoed, which is still widely used on the strength of its teammates despite looking bad on paper.

What movepool adaptions are you talking about? No offence but it's not constructive to criticise like that if you won't elaborate. And PBM isn't going to do retypings, they muddy the waters when done on a large scale.

Cursed Body is purely for flavor. Every Pokedex entry for Ninetales mentions its cursed tails so it's a fair addition in the absence of a third ability, but if that's an unpopular decision I have no problem with removing it. I deliberately didn't mention it in a competitive context as it is largely useless.

Sun will come back. Remember Ninetales isn't the only component of sun teams that has been significantly buffed. I should probably have mentioned this in the post.

 

[Ranger Mike]

I began my own 'pet mod' (I don't like the diminuitive term, but whatever) last year. I recently restarted the project. I hope to have it launched on a site by December of this year (I'm giving myself a few weeks to clean up the mod and make it compatible with whatever mess Ruby/Sapphire bring this November).

Here is a partial change log in a hopefully more readable HTML format. The site is a temporary one. The changes haven't been QA'd/tested yet and are surely not final. If anyone has better/more constructive ideas please throw me a PM or post in this thread, though I don't want to steal Redolent's show.

http://pokemonshowdown-qa.zxq.net/change_log.html

The project's goal is similar to others in this thread, except I am willing to add stats, types, and new abilities. I'm not considering complex moves or abilities or total typing rehauls. I am using a convoluted point-based system to ensure some degree of fairness (eg, buying HP or SPE is more expensive than SPA or ATK, giving a pokemon more powerful abilities or more moves limits its stat gains). The system emphasizes not dumping +base stats everywhere, though most PU/NU pokemon will be getting a large helping of +stats, moves and abilities to make them more competitive. RU/UU/OU pokemon will receive more targeted "wellfare", but I'm being too liberal here or too conservative do voice your opinion.

This sounds cool and all but was it approved by an other metas moderator?

 

[anubite]

Nope. Baleted.

 

[yikes]

Redolent what happened to PBM?

 

[Redolent]

Redolent what happened to PBM?

I'm afraid I'm just way too busy with real life things :( I'd really like it to be a thing but I just don't think I can take on the extra responsibility right now. In the meantime I think it's fair that other people can use the PBM changes in their mods if they like, but then again it'd probably be best to wait until the ORAS hype dies down anyway.

 

[En Passant]

The hype and, more importantly, the meta changes. The Pokemon who got Megas will need their buffs re-evaluated.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Hey Redolent, can you do Snorlax or Pangoro next?
Snorlax, looking at its base stats, is not a bad mon at all. It would enjoy any kind of recovery for its Curse set. Slack Off suits it perfectly.

Aside from already having moves like Bulk Up, Swords Dance, and the amazing Parting Shot that can create free switches for teammates,the ORAS tutors gave Pangoro a ton of fun moves it can abuse along with Iron Fist, such as the elemental punches, Drain Punch, Knock Off, Focus Punch, and Gunk Shot.
A way to ramp up Pangoro's viability and allow it to make the most of its movepool would be really cool.

Thanks. Am I allowed to do commissions like this?

 

[a__man]

Hey Redolent, can you do Snorlax or Pangoro next?
Snorlax, looking at its base stats, is not a bad mon at all. It would enjoy any kind of recovery for its Curse set. Slack Off suits it perfectly.

Aside from already having moves like Bulk Up, Swords Dance, and the amazing Parting Shot that can create free switches for teammates,the ORAS tutors gave Pangoro a ton of fun moves it can abuse along with Iron Fist, such as the elemental punches, Drain Punch, Knock Off, Focus Punch, and Gunk Shot.
A way to ramp up Pangoro's viability and allow it to make the most of its movepool would be really cool.

Thanks. Am I allowed to do commissions like this?

I'm afraid I'm just way too busy with real life things :( I'd really like it to be a thing but I just don't think I can take on the extra responsibility right now. In the meantime I think it's fair that other people can use the PBM changes in their mods if they like, but then again it'd probably be best to wait until the ORAS hype dies down anyway.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Redolent]

Hey Redolent, can you do Snorlax or Pangoro next?
Snorlax, looking at its base stats, is not a bad mon at all. It would enjoy any kind of recovery for its Curse set. Slack Off suits it perfectly.

Aside from already having moves like Bulk Up, Swords Dance, and the amazing Parting Shot that can create free switches for teammates,the ORAS tutors gave Pangoro a ton of fun moves it can abuse along with Iron Fist, such as the elemental punches, Drain Punch, Knock Off, Focus Punch, and Gunk Shot.
A way to ramp up Pangoro's viability and allow it to make the most of its movepool would be really cool.

Yeah Slack Off Snorlax was on the change list. Pangoro I feel would be good just with a couple of moves like Close Combat and Sucker Punch, which would make it difficult to switch in on, like a Bisharp with stronger secondary STAB but worse overall typing and ability.

I'm still not able to focus on PBM any time soon if at all, but if someone wanted to do something similar I definitely think Mega Salamence is completely broken and would be much more interesting / balanced if it got Gale Wings

 

[Uselesscrab]

Yeah Slack Off Snorlax was on the change list. Pangoro I feel would be good just with a couple of moves like Close Combat and Sucker Punch, which would make it difficult to switch in on, like a Bisharp with stronger secondary STAB but worse overall typing and ability.

I'm still not able to focus on PBM any time soon if at all, but if someone wanted to do something similar I definitely think Mega Salamence is completely broken and would be much more interesting / balanced if it got Gale Wings

Gale Wings Salamence was an OU Theorymon once and was a complete failure. It would be interesting to see if, as a mega, it could do any better.