Move Phantom Force

[G-Von]

Physical attacking ghost-types have been getting the short end of the stick over the past couple generations. The only moves that really have been considered viable are Shadow Claw and Shadow Punch. Both of these moves have relatively low base power, even after factoring in STAB since no pokemon takes 4 times damage to ghost-type moves. Of course there's Shadow Force, but it is the signature move of Giratina. Shadow Sneak has been seeing a lot of usage recently due to the additions of Aegislash and Gourgeist but was previously unseen in the upper tiers since the only viable users were Muk, who doesn't even get STAB, Shedinja, Spiritomb, Dusknoir, and maybe Gallade. As you can see, GameFreak has been pretty rough to our physical attacking ghost-types before this generation.

However, things have changed with the introduction of X and Y. As previously stated, Aegislash appears to be the first potential OU mon who will be a notable user of Shadow Sneak. Not only that, but a new move called Phantom Force has been been introduced. It is a physical ghost-type move with 90 base power. It's a 2-turn move that makes the user vanish on the first turn and attacks on the second turn and it will attack through protection moves. The mechanics of this move may seem unfavorable, but due to the lack of powerful STAB moves for ghosts, it may turn out to be viable. Also, Ghost has turned into an even better attacking type due to steel no longer resisting it. GF was very generous by giving this move to the right pokemon like Golurk, Banette, Shedinja, Drifblim, Trevenent, and Gourgeist. MegaBanette with its sky high attack could make very good use of the move, but Prankster has been getting a lot of hype so I don't think it'll be too popular of a move on him just yet. However, Golurk could really use this move. It is a big upgrade in power over Shadow Punch and due to its low speed, if a mon switches out when Golurk uses PF, more than likely Golurk will attack after the target's move. Trevenent and Gourgeist could make use of this move, but I think they will be used in a more defensive role. I guess by using this move they can gain an extra turn of leftovers recovery by vanishing first turn. I do not see Shedinja really using this move but Drifblim could find a way of putting it to use on a possible Unburden set when/if gems get released.

It's not all fun and games for the new move. Even though steel no longer resists ghost, normal is still immune to it. Blissey may have been the only normal-type OU pokemon last gen, but there were 5 in UU along with the introduction of Diggersby, Pyroar, Furfrou, and Heliolisk may make an impact on the viability of Phantom Force. Of course the tiers are going to be changed quite dramatically due to the changes this generation, but none of this changes the fact that ghost got such a huge buff this generation. I'm going to post a possible set that uses Phantom Force and hopefully other possibly viable sets will be discussed as well.

Golurk@Leftovers
EV's: 248 HP/252 Attack/8 SpD
Trait: No Guard Iron Fists
Adamant Nature
-Substitute
-Phantom Force
-Dynamic Punch Focus Punch
-Earthquake/Shadow Punch

The idea of this set is simple: set up a sub and cause damage with Focus Punch. If a ghost-type comes in then click PF, which will prompt another switch to a mon that can take the attack. As you can see, pokemon will be switching quite often, so Spikes and Stealth Rocks will be of great assistance to Golurk, helping to wear down pokemon quickly. Golurk's bulk is pretty respectable thanks to full HP investment and moderate base 80/80 defenses. Earthquake is on the set as a powerful STAB option. Of course, if you want to hit a ghost right away, you could drop EQ since fighting/ghost give perfect coverage anyway for Shadow Punch.

Alright people, what do you guys think? Is it going to be the move that helps physical ghosts prevail for the first time and what are some other sets you can think of for these users?

 

[Forsety]

First thing, you also left out Phantom Force has an additional effect of ignoring evasion modifiers and also doing double damage on Minimize users. It's not really a big thing since I think most users are immune but something else.

Secondly 2 turn charge Ghost move? With Mega Kangaskhan tearing up OU and with Bliss/Chansey's ever omniscient presence? Into the bin it goes! Really I don't see why they didn't simply re-distribute Shadow Force to other users instead of making up a move like this.

It can get some huge damage in the hands of things like Banette who can threaten crippling some things or OHKO's or Trevenant on the last turn of a Trick Room to stall for Harvest activation (the invulnerability would cover 2 turns). But realistically the only practical user of it would be something like Gourgeist who doesn't mind wasting time and even then that is a stretch.

Unrelated note but Phantom Force + No Guard. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING MAN?! Pause for one minute and think about what you've just done wrong.

On top of that I kind of like the idea more of a Iron Fist @Assault Vest w/ Drain Punch/Power Up Punch/EQ/Shadow Punch set up more with Golurk, you can get some pretty respectable special bulk, finally have a way to boost it's damage and recovery all in one.

 

[farranpoison]

Shedinja gets Phantom Force.

Which is even more useless.

Again like stated above, the only real user of Phantom Force is Gourgeist. who loves to waste a turn for Leech Seed/Leftovers recovery, and is slow enough to dodge damage from a switch-in and then attack.

 

[ryan]

Secondly 2 turn charge Ghost move? With Mega Kangaskhan tearing up OU and with Bliss/Chansey's ever omniscient presence? Into the bin it goes! Really I don't see why they didn't simply re-distribute Shadow Force to other users instead of making up a move like this.

idk man. Mega Banette, Trevenant, and Gorgeist can all hit hard with Shadow Force and actually take advantage of Mega Kangaskhan by burning it if it decides to switch in, leaving it to Fire Punch you at best, Earthquake at worst (and more often, I'd presume, with the prevalence of Aegislash). Don't get me wrong; without the charge turn, Phantom Force would be better, but with it, you can take advantage of the foe's Normal-types. Obviously Chansey and Blissey are still bitches to deal with, but lol what's knew?

 

[UnhandledException]

To be honest I dont see the point of using Shadow Force when mostly everything listed in the OP(which I think could use a list of mons that get it)that learns it(bar Drifblim and maybe Gourgeist?) also learns Shadow Claw/Punch, which does more damage over 2 turns rendering the whole point of it having higher base power moot. Well you can argue that it is useful when the opponent switches as you can move last and avoid damage(as was already said) but that is really very situational and not really worth it in practice. I guess Drifblim could use it if you REALLY want a physical Ghost STAB... Its really similar to Sky Attack imo.

Theres the point of bypassing evasion and stuff though, but really how common is it?

 

[Forsety]

Well Bliss and Chansey are a pretty big 'if', fact is I'd never want to let either of them in they can abuse the free turn pretty easily to pass off a massive Wish or throw off a Aromatherapy which renders pretty much anything you do wasted effort.

As I said Phantom Force is great for a huge STAB hit and actually works well if you connect with it since in the case of Banette it has Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch running off it's 165 attack to finish them. But when you take a step back you realize it's actually only a tiny bit stronger than Gunk Shot which has a pretty high poison chance sort of making it up so there is that to consider whether you have something more reliable.

Yes you could burn some of the physical Normal users like Kangas or Diggersby but they're all actually quite fast so only only Banette with Prankster is going to pull it off or Gourgeist with it's tremendous bulk as stated already.

I guess Drifblim could use it if you REALLY want a physical Ghost STAB... Its really similar to Sky Attack imo.

Well it is something for Acrobatic Drifblim to get past Steel/Elec/Rock, it's sorely lacked a good Ghost STAB for years.

 

[Dragontamer]

Trevenent seems like the best user:

Trevenent @ Sitrus Berry
Harvest
-------------
Phantom Force
Substitute
Will o Wisp
Leech Seed

With Harvest, Leech Seed, Substitute, Will o Wisp, and Phantom Force, Trevenent can stall many pokemon to death. Sub / Leech + Harvest Sitrus Berries is already pretty good, but you can further stall for time with Phantom Force.

 

[>>><<<]

I've been using
Gourgeist-XL @ Leftovers
252 HP/114 Def/144 Sp.Def (something along those lines)
-Phantom Force
-Will O Wisp
-Leech Seed
-Protect
on a stall team, and it's been working out pretty well. I usually keep him til late game, when the opponent usually doesn't have much to sponge a Phantom Force with, and I just burn + Leech Seed everything to wear the opponent down.
Phantom Force works pretty well in conjuction with Protect to just waste a whole lot of turns to grab extra recovery on lefties and LS while whittling the opponent.
If the opponent does have something to tank Phantom Force with, they'll have to hurt themselves on entry hazards to switch in.
It's pretty good on Gourgeist, and Trevenant could use something similar, but outside these two I see no reason to use Phantom Force since anyone else who can learn it has better options to choose from.

 

[deluge]

Does Bannette learn it? I'm not seeing it on serebii, bulbapedia etc.

For Drifblim, I thought of one possible use when posting in the trapping moves thread:
Aftermath Drifblim@Leftovers: Bind | Will-o-wisp | Protect | Phantom Force/Fly
Phantom Force keeps Drifblim safe from Thunders at the cost of being unable to hit Normals.
But here, the point is simply to let residual damage accrue so it's not a huge downside.

 

[G-Von]

Forsety, ahh i see your point with the No Guard comment. I guess I would have to run something like Focus Punch and Iron Fists instead to boost the power of Focus Punch, but yea i didnt find it to be useful to mention the Minimize comment because of Evasion Clause.

I should probably mention that King's Shield does not protect against Phantom Force so it wouldn't cause a -2 attack drop.

deluge, I saw Shuppet gets it as an egg move.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I've been trying for a stall set with
Golurk @ leftovers
Careful / 252 HP / 252 SpD
-Block (tutor move in B2W2)
-Toxic/Protect (will depend on if you get adequet T spikes support)
-Shadow Force
-Substitute/Protect

No clue if it'll work, but it'll be one of the first things I try once pokebank comes out. It might even get Golurk out of the sink whole of NU.

 

[deluge]

G-Von
Thanks for the confirmation.

Here's something for consideration:
Brave Bannette@Bannettetite: Destiny Bond | Infestation | Phantom Force | Protect/Will-o-wisp
Protect can go over any of the last moves (eg. Will-o-wisp). It is appealing mainly because it guarantees safe MegaEvolution.
EDIT: Made Protect the main option.

This Bannette should be very likely to take something out even if it goes down too.
Infestation and Phantom Force do not have Prankster priority but can be done under the 'protection' of priority Destiny Bond.

 

[Adonzo]

In the STABmons meta, Shadow Force was a huge tool for Shedinja, since most of his usual checks are faster than him. The protect effect on Shadow Force would effectively guarantee that he could hit his checks with 2 Shadow Forces and a Shadow Sneak before going down, which drastically reduced the amount of mons that could safely check him. While Phantom Force is not as strong, it performs the same way, and is by far the better STAB for Shedinja. Order of operations here:

Switch Shedinja in on something that can't touch it
Use Phantom Force while the opponent switches
Opponent's Shedinja check, likely being faster, can't touch Shedinja and eats a Phantom Force
Opponent hits Shedinja, breaks sash, Shedinja uses Phantom Force again
Opponent again can't do anything and eats another Phantom Force
Shedinja uses Shadow Sneak before finally being KO'd

Of course, Shedinja is still Shedinja, and has much more to worry about than just SE hits.