Pimp of Ubers - Honchkrow

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#1
---
Pimp of Ubers - Honchkrow





INTRO:

Honchkrow in the Uber tier is a huge eyebrow raiser when you consider its overall stats and Stealth Rock weakness. However, Honchkrow recently got a powerful move to play with in a form of Brave Bird. Honchkrow is often compared to its fellow Brave Bird counterpart Ho-oh, who has better overall stats and higher attack stats. Many players are quick to pull the “outclassed” trigger on Honchkrow. However, there are certain things that give Honchkrow a comfortable niche in the fast-paced Uber environment.

Closer look:

Sucker Punch

The question that is immediately asked when Honchkrow is brought up: Why use it over Ho-oh? The simple answer is Sucker Punch. Ho-oh has a problem dealing with faster Pokemon, and it is forced to switch out for the most part. Being x4 weak to Stealth Rock doesn’t help it as well. Honchkrow on the other hand is able to keep the opponent’s faster Pokemon second guessing since Sucker Punch could threaten a tier filled with Psychic- and Ghost-types. Sucker Punch ultimately prevents Latios, Latias, Giratina-O, Mewtwo, and Mew from picking Honchkrow when its HP is reduced. This is something Ho-oh can’t pull. Basically, if the opponent tries to set up on Sucker Punch, you could use Brave Bird to strip a portion of the foes HP. If you think it will decide to attack you, Sucker Punch will most likely OHKO them.

Insomnia

Honchkrow’s ability actually gives it an ability to switch in on something! Its true flaw is switching in on a tier filled with high-powered attacks, and Honchkrow’s only entrance is when something dies. Insomnia helps Honchkrow switch in on Darkrai’s Dark Void with impunity. Since Darkrai is usually used in early stages of the match, Honchkrow can come in on a predicted Dark Void and survive Focus Blast. However, take note that with Life Orb equipped on Darkrai, it has a chance to OHKO 4 HP / 0 SpD Honchkrow with Focus Blast. With Stealth Rock down, it will OHKO Honchkrow with Focus Blast. For the most part though, many players will not risk their Darkrai in early stages of the match. But what will switch in on Brave Bird if someone like Darkrai tries to switch out?

Life Orb

Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb

EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 190 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
-Superpower
-Sucker Punch
-Roost / Pursuit

This is the set I am testing at the moment and it is pretty deadly once it has the chance to come in. Previously mentioned, Honchkrow’s best bet at switching in is Darkrai’s Dark Void. Although the safest method is bringing Honchkrow in after something dies. Honchkrow can come in on many things in the Uber tier. With the given EV spread, Honchkrow outpaces Dialga who run 32 Speed EVs. Anything lower includes a number of defensive Pokemon such as Blissey, Wobbuffet, and Forretress. Typically used offensive Pokemon who sacrifice Speed in order to gain some bulk are also outpaced. Examples include Groudon, Dialga, and Kyogre. When given the chance, Brave Bird spamming can commence. If the player decides to switch out, it only makes it extra-difficult to take down.

Who’s brave enough to switch in on this bird?

Brave Bird damage calculations:

vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Groudon - 49.3% - 58.2%
vs. 240 HP / 244 Def Kyogre - 57.9% - 68.3%
vs. 28 HP / 228 Def Bold Wobbuffet - 53% - 62.7%
vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Giratina - 34.6% - 40.8%
vs. 200 HP / 46 Def Giratina-O - 53.2% - 62.5%
vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Lugia - 49.3% - 58.4%
vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon - 38.12% - 45.3%


Attempting to revenge it?

Sucker Punch damage calculations:

vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo – 100%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios – 100%
vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Latias – 100%
vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O - 91.6% - 107.9%
vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hasty Palkia - 62.93% - 74.14%
..Shadow Sneak trying to pass Sucker Punch 68 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow - 19% - 22.6%


Aforementioned threats who run more Speed to outpace Honchkrow:

vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyogre - 58.2% - 68.7%
vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Groudon - 36.6% - 43.1%


Superpower on certain Pokemon

vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga - 76.7% - 90.6% (Bulk Up set)
...Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga - 28.7% - 33.9%
vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Dialga - 78.1% - 92.2% (Choice Specs)
...Brave Bird vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Dialga - 29.2% - 34.5%


When you consider Stealth Rock for a number of these damage calculations, Honchkrow could turn into a dangerous threat when you’re not expecting it since you’re most likely losing at least one Pokemon if you predict wrong. For the Superpower set in particular, Dialga is one of the most common switch ins to Brave Bird. However, a full-powered Superpower the following turn will spell doom on most Dialga set that invest less Speed than Honchkrow.

Roost or Pursuit?

The final slot comes down to two choices. Roost is similar to Ho-oh in terms of healing of its pitiful Stealth Rock weakness and Brave Bird recoil along with the Life Orb recoil. Honchkrow has a decent amount of times to pull off Roost when you consider its attacking power. With Roost, Honchkrow can turn into a solid stall-breaker and many defensive-oriented teams have a fair amount of difficulty taking it down without losing a chunk of their health. Pursuit on the other hand attempts to get rid of fleeing Latios, Latias, and sometimes Mewtwo. Pursuit also hurts Blissey as it tries to escape from Superpower or Brave Bird. Both of these moves have completely different purposes, and it generally comes down to what you’re planning to do with Honchkrow.

Problems

Of course not every Pokemon is perfect, each and every Pokemon have their certain flaws. Honchkrow will always fall to Choice Scarf Dialga, since it can switch in on Brave Bird while resisting Sucker Punch. In fact, any set that run enough Speed EV investment (including Mix Attacker and Choice Band) are considered counters to Honchkrow. Another notable Honchkrow will run into is Scizor at full health. Although Brave Bird will OHKO Scizor sometimes, Scizor can deliver a punishing blow with a Choice Band Bullet Punch on Honchkrow. Lastly, Honchkrow’s prominent problem as a sweeper is the lack of Speed; 71 Base speed isn’t impressive. Even with the use of Sucker Punch to combat with faster threats, certain Pokemon who are neutral to Dark-type hits and can outpace Honchkrow are considered counters as well. Examples include Choice Specs Kyogre, Ho-oh, and Palkia.

Sample Team


This team in particular will display how Honchkrow will shine in the tier. It revolves around checking and beating its prominent threats, giving it an oppurtunity to inflict some damage on the opponent without anything getting in its way. (hopefully!)

Deoxys-S
@ Focus Sash
Jolly nature
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Extremespeed
---
Giratina-O
@ Griseuos Orb
Naive nature
248 Atk / 196 Spe / 64 SpA

- Hidden Power Fire
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Outrage
---
Wobbuffet
@ Leftovers
Careful nature
28 HP / 228 Def / 252 SpD

- Encore
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Safeguard
---
Jirachi
@ Choice Scarf
Jolly nature
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- U-turn
- Trick
---
Rayquaza
@ Life Orb
Jolly nature
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extremespeed
- Overheat
---
Honchkrow
@ Life Orb
Adamant nature
64 HP / 252 Atk / 190 Spe

- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Roost
---

This particular team aims to use Honchkrow to its fullest. This is an offensive-based team. Doexys-S makes a valuable addition to Honchkrow, and the entire team as a whole. It will always get Stealth Rock down and sometimes Spikes - albeit nothing Taunts you. Giratina-O is the best spin blocker provided in the tier thanks to its monstrous defensive stats and ability to beat Forretress. Wobuffett is always an excellent addition on an offensive team. It shuts down Choice Scarf users - Dialga in particular, and it can help Honchkrow in the long run of the match. It also creates more opportunities for Honchkrow to come in i.e locked in Dark-type move. Wobuffet can catch locked in Bullet Punch Scizor's and can remove it from the entire match! This ensures Honchkrow will stay alive and nothing will force it to come out. Wobuffey also shuts down Choice Scarf Palkia. Choice Scarf Jirachi might sound like an unusual choice, but it keeps Rayquaza in check for the most part (Adamant versions are easily outpaced and beat). It also adds a Dragon-type resistance, while U-turn adds and racks up entry hazard damage (extra helpful to leave certain Pokemon to OHKO range for Honchkrow). Rayquaza is the only one that doesn't add any contribution for Honchkrow, but rather take advantage of Honchkrow's ability to punch hole on the foes physical wall. Surprisingly enough, Rayquaza can now deal sweep sufficiently easier with several physical walls injured (clean up for Honchkrow basically). And lastly, Honchkrow is the star of the team. Bring him in while you can, deal damage, kill a couple of Pokemon, and let Rayquaza sweep! Honchkrow will not live long enough to 6-0 an entire team for the most part.

Conclusion

All in all, Honchkrow should not be taken lightly since it is capable of 2HKOing everything in the Uber tier with Brave Bird. Combine that with Sucker Punch to combat faster threats, and a 120 BP Fighting move in a form of Superpower, Honchkrow becomes incredibly frustrating to go up against.

Sets to test:
- Choice Scarf
- MixKrow
 
#2
I'm confused as to why you have so many views but not one person has replied so far?

Anyways I think you did a really great job writing this. I used to use Honchrow as an anti lead before it got the HG/SS moves and it worked great. Now that it actually has them I would assume it works even better and can destroy unprepared teams.

When I used him I ran Heat Wave in the 4th slot solely for Forretress. Although Brave Bird does do enough damage I wasn't a fan of the LO and BB recoil when I could just OHKO him from the start. Using Heat Wave in ubers also has a much better suprise factor since it's mostly seen in UU/OU.

Another option you may want to consider talking about is Night Slash or if it's a mixed set Dark Pulse. I only say this because although Sucker Punch is stronger, most people would expect that and try to predict a Sucker Punch and use something like Calm Mind instead. These pokemon would most likely be Mew and Lati@s. Brave Bird would still do significant damage, however.
 
#4
Since Honchkrow is rather fragile (it only has 100/52/52 defenses) and doesn't like stealth rock much, Switching Honchkrow into things might be a bit harder than expected.

Would Fortress be a good teammate for this Honchkrow since it gets rid of stealth rock so Honchkrow can come in easier?
 

Bluewind

GIVE EO WARSTORY
is a Contributor Alumnus
#5
Hey there franky, glad you got to post that deadly set of yours.

Anyways, one thing I'd mention somewhere in the post (at least I didn't see) is how he works wonderfully when paired with Wobbuffet, but those that carry Tickle. With that combination you can easily take down most defensive pokés that might turn to be troublesome (Groudon, Lugia, etc) and open a sweep opportunity for things like a RP Groudon of your own, Garchomp and such.

Good Job =)

Edit: Just nitpicking some stuff, you should fix that sentence that says Honchy can 2HKO everything in the Uber tier with Brave Bird, as Dialga is a moron (maybe there's something else too).
 
#6
Well written. Quality stuff.
I'll give Honch a try. Funny thing is that I had a free slot on my Uber team, and I thought about using Absol. But Honch still sounds a good one to test.
 
#7
Since Honchkrow is rather fragile (it only has 100/52/52 defenses) and doesn't like stealth rock much, Switching Honchkrow into things might be a bit harder than expected.

Would Fortress be a good teammate for this Honchkrow since it gets rid of stealth rock so Honchkrow can come in easier?
It's the Ho-oh syndrome, but Honch doesn't lose half of his health, but with his fragility, it's almost the same. I'd presume a sub roosting set would be viable, but I wouldn't know testing it.
 

shrang

Kylowole is shredded
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#8
SubRoost does seem reasonably viable (Sub/Roost/Brave Bird/Superpower gets really near perfect coverage, only missing out on stuff like Rotom IIRC, which you'll never see in Ubers). This set does seem to be outclassed by Ho-oh though, who has much better defenses, and Sucker Punch is one of the biggest reasons to run Honch in the first place.
 
#9
hooh, heck even staraptor outclass the subroost set. Id an anti-lead krow viable?

Krow@Focus Sash
Adamant /Insomnia
-Superpower
-Sucker Punch
-Drill Peck
-Pursuit

120 base power on his first three moves rock. Brave Bird is absent because of Sash, but you can always run LO or soething and use BB. Leads it beats off the top of my head are ray, shaymin, darkrai, deoxys s, dialga, tyranitar, etc. Really quite evfective as an antilead, but almlst useless later on...
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
#10
Leads it beats off the top of my head are ray, shaymin, darkrai, deoxys s, dialga, tyranitar, et
Rayquaza wins through Fire Blast + ExtremeSpeed, Deoxys-S will survive long enough to grab two layers of entry hazards and Tyranitar survives your Superpower via Focus Sash and can OHKO back with Ice Beam (the sandstorm kills your sash)
 
#11
Rayquaza wins through Fire Blast + ExtremeSpeed, Deoxys-S will survive long enough to grab two layers of entry hazards and Tyranitar survives your Superpower via Focus Sash and can OHKO back with Ice Beam (the sandstorm kills your sash)
And doesn't Skymin just flinchhax, giving it a 60% chance of beating you?
 
#12
And doesn't Skymin just flinchhax, giving it a 60% chance of beating you?
Sucker Punch

But Skymin can just switch out after the 1st sucker punch making it a mind game on if you want to go for the Sucker Punch or catch Skymin on the switch and without your sash you aren't doing much.
 
#13
Sucker Punch

But Skymin can just switch out after the 1st sucker punch making it a mind game on if you want to go for the Sucker Punch or catch Skymin on the switch and without your sash you aren't doing much.
Any smart player would switch out instantly, because honch won't lay out sr and sucker punch is obvious.
 
#15
Well, Brave Bird, and Stealth Rock will wear it down, alot, nearly all Ubers have garagantuan 100 Base+ HP.
I just wanted to point that out
 
#17
Hmm, how about a set with trick room? I really don't think a 75 base speed is going to keep up with the ubers, but how about keep down? Like in a trick room team, it would be 'faster' than most things.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top