Pokémon Pinsir

[The Gentleman Gamer]

Forgot Aegislash, but close combat obviously isn't for going 1 on 1 with Skarm. It's for taking that final 50% off after you wear him down.

Still probably prefer close combat though, unless you have a Magnezone or you really have a problem with mixed Aegislash. Physical Aegis can't do much to you if you SD on the switch.

But why not use Magnezone? If you're going to be using Mega-Pinsir, you're going to be basing your team around him. And if close combat only gives neutral coverage against Skarm, when you could trap it with Zone, what's the point? Your initial point can also be taken the other way, what do you lose coverage against when you switch from CC to EQ? The answer? Not a lot.

Also, bringing CC instead of EQ leaves you unable to break Aegislash instead of unable to break Skarmory. You can't win against both of them, and you'll have an easier time against Aegislash because you can hit him super effectively.

Wow, people really don't read threads anymore do they? I literally just said that 20 minutes ago.

 

[effyouzion]

Flying/Ground coverage is underestimated because of all the immunities to ground. If you look at a type chart, they compliment each other almost perfectly - any type that resists one is weak to the other, with the exception of flying types and levitate, and Flying resists fighting. CC also increases Pinsir's vulnerability to priority. Bring a Magnezone for Skarmory if you're that worried.

Also, bringing CC instead of EQ leaves you unable to break Aegislash instead of unable to break Skarmory. You can't win against both of them, and you'll have an easier time against Aegislash because you can hit him super effectively.

I think you can beat any Aegislash that's not using shadow ball or flash cannon if he switches into you unless you eat a king's shield attack drop. But yeah, it's dependent on your team.

 

[effyouzion]

But why not use Magnezone? If you're going to be using Mega-Pinsir, you're going to be basing your team around him. And if close combat only gives neutral coverage against Skarm, when you could trap it with Zone, what's the point? Your initial point can also be taken the other way, what do you lose coverage against when you switch from CC to EQ? The answer? A lot more.

I think you phrased that wrong, but ground and fighting are pretty much interchangeable. The main difference is Skarm vs. Aegislash. CC also gives you a 20% harder hit on the Rotoms (which are almost universally physically defensive right now) and lets you hit things like air balloon Heatran. EQ, outside of Aegislash, gives you coverage on Klefki (who will paralyze you no matter what you choose), Mawile (who can sucker punch you no matter what you choose), and Carbink (who sucks donkey balls).

 

[The Gentleman Gamer]

First off, I'd like to point out that Mawile can't just sucker punch you. This is because Pinsir has SD. Secondly, you keep ignoring the defense drop. Mega Pinsir barely has enough bulk as it is, and with a defense drop would die to most priority, which is alarmingly even more common this generation.

 

[Thorhammer]

I think you phrased that wrong, but ground and fighting are pretty much interchangeable. The main difference is Skarm vs. Aegislash. CC also gives you a 20% harder hit on the Rotoms (which are almost universally physically defensive right now) and lets you hit things like air balloon Heatran. EQ, outside of Aegislash, gives you coverage on Klefki (who will paralyze you no matter what you choose), Mawile (who can sucker punch you no matter what you choose), and Carbink (who sucks donkey balls).

CC gives you the ability to hit Skarmory, Bronzong, and Rotom for 120 power instead of 100 - a tiny upgrade. EQ lets you hit Aegislash, Klefki, Mawile, Carbink, Metagross, and Jirachi for 200 power instead of 120, or 100 in Aegislash's case. That's a much bigger improvement.

Also, after hitting some things 20% harder, you take 50% more damage if you don't kill them. For Pinsir, that's pretty iffy of a trade-off.

 

[effyouzion]

First off, I'd like to point out that Mawile can't just sucker punch you. This is because Pinsir has SD. Secondly, you keep ignoring the defense drop. Mega Pinsir barely has enough bulk as it is, and with a defense drop would die to most priority, which is alarmingly even more common this generation.

If you try and SD to stall out sucker punch you're gonna eat a play rough eventually, which is a OHKO. Quick attack is better (does damage and still makes SP fail), but that's kind of irrelevant to the discussion.

The defense drop is a downside, yeah. But Pinsir is faster than any priority user save Talonflame. Quick attack can get you where you need to go in a pinch.

CC gives you the ability to hit Skarmory, Bronzong, and Rotom for 120 power instead of 100 - a tiny upgrade. EQ lets you hit Aegislash, Klefki, Mawile, Carbink, Metagross, and Jirachi for 200 power instead of 120, or 100 in Aegislash's case. That's a much bigger improvement.

Also, after hitting some things 20% harder, you take 50% more damage if you don't kill them. For Pinsir, that's pretty iffy of a trade-off.

Obviously you would only use CC when you can get the kill. And I would argue that 20% more damage on Rotom, who's probably gonna be #1 in usage, is way more useful than more damage on Metagross, Jirachi, Carbink, and Mawile, all of which I doubt will crack OU, and Klefki, who will paralyze you with Prankster and cripple you regardless of the move you choose. The only one that matters is Aegislash.

 

[Thorhammer]

Obviously you would only use CC when you can get the kill. And I would argue that 20% more damage on Rotom, who's probably gonna be #1 in usage, is way more useful than more damage on Metagross, Jirachi, Carbink, and Mawile, all of which I doubt will crack OU, and Klefki, who will paralyze you with Prankster and cripple you regardless of the move you choose. The only one that matters is Aegislash.

Rotom is a big threat for sure, but CC isn't going to let Pinsir beat it head-on. Pinsir can beat Rotom by wearing it down with several switch-ins on Return, and with CC, it'd have to do the exact same thing. Meanwhile, the thing that's #1 on the usage stats right now is Aegislash, and even though it's not staying there, it's a big threat. CC lets Aegislash set up on Pinsir or use it as a chance to start breaking into your team, while EQ lets Pinsir beat it. There's simply no contest.

Jirachi is worse than it was, but unlike Metagross, it has room to fall and still be a prominent force in OU. Mawile's OU status is up in the air because Megas have increased competition for usage, but it's still a big threat that will show up plenty in OU, and like with Jirachi and Aegislash, EQ lets Pinsir beat it. Klefki can be trouble, but if you see one, you take what you get. Pinsir can screw up its Thunder Waves if it has a Sub up (unlikely, granted), and if not, it's better to kill it fast so it doesn't screw up more of your team. Pinsir loves its base 105 Speed, but with its decent physical bulk and fantastic priority, getting it paralyzed isn't the equivalent of being down a Pokemon.

 

[newtonja]

Man, if only this thikng could learn extreme speed, then it would be set

 

[effyouzion]

Rotom is a big threat for sure, but CC isn't going to let Pinsir beat it head-on. Pinsir can beat Rotom by wearing it down with several switch-ins on Return, and with CC, it'd have to do the exact same thing. Meanwhile, the thing that's #1 on the usage stats right now is Aegislash, and even though it's not staying there, it's a big threat. CC lets Aegislash set up on Pinsir or use it as a chance to start breaking into your team, while EQ lets Pinsir beat it. There's simply no contest.

Jirachi is worse than it was, but unlike Metagross, it has room to fall and still be a prominent force in OU. Mawile's OU status is up in the air because Megas have increased competition for usage, but it's still a big threat that will show up plenty in OU, and like with Jirachi and Aegislash, EQ lets Pinsir beat it. Klefki can be trouble, but if you see one, you take what you get. Pinsir can screw up its Thunder Waves if it has a Sub up (unlikely, granted), and if not, it's better to kill it fast so it doesn't screw up more of your team. Pinsir loves its base 105 Speed, but with its decent physical bulk and fantastic priority, getting it paralyzed isn't the equivalent of being down a Pokemon.

The meta has changed considerably since those stats, as evidenced by Greninja being #3 in 1850 (seriously... wtf?). Rotom is omnipresent at the top of the ladder right now and I would take anything that gives me an advantage over him.

But anyway we've beat this issue into the ground. You made your points, I made my points. Nothing really more to be said.

 

[Tesung]

So a 20 pct harder hit on one mon is better than being able to hit the number one pokemon in usage? Plus hitting jirachi, mawile, etc. not to mention that mold breaker is an option on regular pinsir, and while I enjoy moxie, mold breaker Eqing rotoms is fun as shit. There is simple no competion. And to whoever said, if this thing got espeed it would be the most broken thing ever

 

[The Gentleman Gamer]

If you try and SD to stall out sucker punch you're gonna eat a play rough eventually, which is a OHKO. Quick attack is better (does damage and still makes SP fail), but that's kind of irrelevant to the discussion.

Ever heard of prediction? I never said just spam SD. I said they couldn't spam sucker punch. If you use earthquake when they use play rough, goodbye mawile. If you use earthquake when they use sucker punch, goodbye pinsir. Try and manipulate your opponent into thinking they know how you think.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Man, if only this thikng could learn extreme speed, then it would be set

Doesn't Feint count as an Mini-Espeed? I mean it is indeed weaker than Quick Attack, but with SD and its higher priority shouldn't it work perfectly for MegaPinsir?

 

[newtonja]

Doesn't Feint count as an Mini-Espeed? I mean it is indeed weaker than Quick Attack, but with SD and its higher priority shouldn't it work perfectly for MegaPinsir?

A couple issues with that is that it already has quick attack, second fient sucks as a move and third what I mean by having extreme speed being awsome is its power of base 80, that would have been awsome

 

[ColtCababa]

Ever heard of prediction? I never said just spam SD. I said they couldn't spam sucker punch. If you use earthquake when they use play rough, goodbye mawile. If you use earthquake when they use sucker punch, goodbye pinsir. Try and manipulate your opponent into thinking they know how you think.

I would only assume that with Mega Pinsir's natural Physical bulk, it would be able to take an unboosted Sucker Punch.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Ever heard of prediction? I never said just spam SD. I said they couldn't spam sucker punch. If you use earthquake when they use play rough, goodbye mawile. If you use earthquake when they use sucker punch, goodbye pinsir. Try and manipulate your opponent into thinking they know how you think.

The mindgame is entirely in Mawile's favour. You have to guess right 8 times. You have no room to 'manipulate', if you choose anything other than SD, you run a huge risk of just dying. Meanwhile, they can choose turn 3, 4, 5, 6 even 7 to Play rough and there's no way you can guess when it's coming.

 

[ClockworkLad]

So MPinsir v Mawile/MegaMawile.

Hmmm...

This battle, given the sets, is the art of Over-prediction. Choose the wrong move can leave the other team useless, defenseless(plus no more Mega). Pinsir's Defense stat is not enough at all to take Mega Mawile's Sucker Punch(unless you got Baton Passed some Defense). Though Mega Pinsir outspeeds Mega Mawile, so EQ > Play Rough.

Unfortunately, if you spam either Swords Dance or Sucker Punch to much, you'll run out of PP eventually. Good Luck with that.

Overall, there is no guaranteed winner here. Unlike "Hey dudz mai Conkelderp beat a T-Tar with Hammer Arm", which would kill T-Tar(depending on EVs).

This match is a draw.

 

[The Gentleman Gamer]

The mindgame is entirely in Mawile's favour. You have to guess right 8 times. You have no room to 'manipulate', if you choose anything other than SD, you run a huge risk of just dying. Meanwhile, they can choose turn 3, 4, 5, 6 even 7 to Play rough and there's no way you can guess when it's coming.

Ummmm. No. That's not how prediction works. You manipulate them BEFORE this encounter, because if you see Mega-Mawile, you should prepare for it. And if you choose any move you run a risk of dying, because if you use SD and they use Play Rough you die. And your logic works exactly the same the other way round. If they choose anythings but sucker punch, they run a risk of dying.

 

[Stallion]

Just quietly, if you wanted to hit Rotom and Skarm that badly, Double-Edge has 117 bp when NVE, pretty much as good as CC. Honestly though, if you're using Mega-Pinsir you're better off leaving handling Skarm and friends to your five other teamslots...

 

[effyouzion]

Ever heard of prediction? I never said just spam SD. I said they couldn't spam sucker punch. If you use earthquake when they use play rough, goodbye mawile. If you use earthquake when they use sucker punch, goodbye pinsir. Try and manipulate your opponent into thinking they know how you think.

You can't use prediction as an argument because no one predicts with 100% certainty. That's why it's a prediction. It's also pretty irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Thorhammer]

Just quietly, if you wanted to hit Rotom and Skarm that badly, Double-Edge has 117 bp when NVE, pretty much as good as CC. Honestly though, if you're using Mega-Pinsir you're better off leaving handling Skarm and friends to your five other teamslots...

Double-Edge is incompatible with Quick Attack. It'd be a viable option otherwise, but with that in mind, it's just not worth it.

 

[The Gentleman Gamer]

You can't use prediction as an argument because no one predicts with 100% certainty. That's why it's a prediction. It's also pretty irrelevant to this thread.

No, nobody predicts with 100% certainty, but then nobody hits with Stone Edge 100% of the time, and people still use it. And what it means is that while Close Combat Pinsir loses to Mega Mawile, Earthquake Pinsir CAN beat it with prediction (or luck if you're lazy).

 

[r00ks45]

Honestly, Pinsir is one of the best megas in the game. It gets a nice attack boost and has decent bulk. Its ability is stupid strong as a quick attack gets stab and a bonus from aerialate, making it as strong as an extremespeed. A stab double edge with a 30% boost is even scarier. Was kind of hoping that heracross would get something like pinsir, put all he got was a weird design and skill link

Best mega is kanghaskhan though

 

[myw]

Mawile will generally beat Pinsir, though. Think about it. Mawile has 8 sucker punches. if you attack during any one of those, you lose. If it mixes in a play rough and you don't attack, you lose.

 

[Ruffles]

Why is everyone only taking Close Combat into account? My in-game Pinsir has this moveset:

Rock Slide (better than stone edge in doubles)
Return (goes to almost 200 power, even though no priority, it has enormous power)
X-Scissor
Storm Throw <-- yes storm throw, guaranteed crit makes it go to 90 BP, while obviously not as powerful as 120 BP, it goes through pokemons who are spamming Bulk Up (or stuff that increase Defense), Screens, etc. and not to mention it doesn't give you a Def/SpD drop.

And my friend has a 252 Atk adamant mawile which he mega evolves, we played a lot of times against each other, and one of the times he was against my pinsir, sucker punch didn't kill me IIRC, and b/c it was doubles my pokemons paired up on it.

 

[Toosuto]

Why is everyone only taking Close Combat into account? My in-game Pinsir has this moveset:

Rock Slide (better than stone edge in doubles)
Return (goes to almost 200 power, even though no priority, it has enormous power)
X-Scissor
Storm Throw <-- yes storm throw, guaranteed crit makes it go to 90 BP, while obviously not as powerful as 120 BP, it goes through pokemons who are spamming Bulk Up (or stuff that increase Defense), Screens, etc. and not to mention it doesn't give you a Def/SpD drop.

And my friend has a 252 Atk adamant mawile which he mega evolves, we played a lot of times against each other, and one of the times he was against my pinsir, sucker punch didn't kill me IIRC, and b/c it was doubles my pokemons paired up on it.

This. I use Storm Throw as well, it's pretty good.

Another option is Superpower, but I prefer Storm Throw.