lol yeah that was just me making the wrong decision and getting lucky, I think i just got scared because of the intimidate drop, but now i know that quick attack definitely wouldve killed,
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Pokémon Pinsir
- Thread starter Adonzo
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Currently Frustration is a straight upgrade from Return because of Ditto. Even if Ditto steals your boosts, it won't be able to do much damage with Frustration since all Pokemon will be max happiness on Showdown unless you specifically change it.Feint is niche and not completely useless. However, Quick Attack is the superior option in most cases.
However, Frustration on the other hand, I just want to know why you want to abuse your mon' to make it hate you.
I went against a Pinsir that ran Frustration/Swords Dance/???/??? the other day. Although, mine came out on top with Return, I felt sorry for the other cute wittle pinsir.
Anyway, this brings up a point. Is Frustration interchangable with Return? I mean, at least in-game, I feel as if Frustration at max base power in nearly impossible to keep due to your pokemon naturally gaining affection through walking, healing, and battling. However, in a closed-simulated environment, Frustration would be equal to return. But then again, since they are basically the same move, I suppose Pinsir's standard set could be
Quick Attack
Return/Frustration
Swords Dance
Earthquake.
Apart from that, there's no difference whatsoever.
Substitutes tend to work better on Pokemon that don't have a ton of weaknesses, and with Pinsir's small HP pool, his subs are soft and huggable lol. Now don't get me wrong, Substitute has it's merits:
-Since Swords Dance is common for Pinsir, people will switch in their checks on a predicted boost, only to be met with a wall.
This can cause a huge momentum shift. Pinsir hits like a truck, and your opponent must decide whether to tank and break the sub or switch out to a phaser (which will suffer a huge dent in vitality from unboosted return etc et all)
-Substitute renders status and pranksters useless.
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But here's the problem, Pinsir depends on Priority so Quick Attack can't be shafted. Pinsir depends on Return for a a no-drawback STAB, so Return can't be shafted.
Without Earthquake, Pinsir loses out on an unblockable Ground/Flying coverage. So the only move that we can remove is Swords Dance. The problem with this is that by removing SD, Pinsir is knocked from a godly sweeper into a wallbreaker. There are tons of wallbreakers that don't cost a megaslot- Azumarill, Staraptor, Conkeldurr, Infernape, etc et all.
TL:DR - Subsitute is viable but not the most efficient choice. In my opinion.
Yeah, Swords Dance is really the only 'optional' move on Pinsir. The others are just too good to pass up. I'd say Close Combat is a useful fourth move, though, just for the occasional awkward switch-in like Rotom-A and Skarm - with prior damage, you might get lucky with a 2HKO. Still walled by Thundurus, but there you go.
Moxie can come in handy in this case. Switch in or revenge something regular Pinsir can KO, like Heatran, and take it out to get the +1 Atk. Next turn, mega-evolve and go nuts - but bear in mind you're moving with Pinsir's base 85 Spe that turn (unless you're using Quick Attack). If you can't use the +1, switch out and come back later. Regular Pinsir finds it a little easier to switch in anyway, not being so fatally weak to SR.
Moxie can come in handy in this case. Switch in or revenge something regular Pinsir can KO, like Heatran, and take it out to get the +1 Atk. Next turn, mega-evolve and go nuts - but bear in mind you're moving with Pinsir's base 85 Spe that turn (unless you're using Quick Attack). If you can't use the +1, switch out and come back later. Regular Pinsir finds it a little easier to switch in anyway, not being so fatally weak to SR.
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Since M-Lucario will most likely be banned. Do you guys expect to see a significant rise in Mega Pinsir usage? He's undoubtedly the next best physical sweeper. However, if this is true, then it would probably be a great option to run skarmory as a counter since he can tank/stealth rock. Thundurus and Talonflame work as well.
So I guess my question is what Skarmory set would be the best counter to pinsir? Also would rocky helm be the best option or leftovers.
So I guess my question is what Skarmory set would be the best counter to pinsir? Also would rocky helm be the best option or leftovers.
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I started using mega pinsir on my main team as soon as I heard talk of the Lucarionite ban, and in doing so I have found the best counters to be ferrorthorn with rocky helmet, skarmory, mandibuzz at full hp and rotom at full hp. That being said though the best skarmory set to stop m pinsir, is essentailly any set invested in defense. I would also put rocky helmet on because it is so easy to find opportunities to roost, Ill put up some relevant calcs...
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 72-84 (21.5 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This last one should be worst case scenario meaning you didnt keep rocks up and you gave pinsir a free swords dance, and even then skarm still counters him.
Hope this helped
I've been using My beautiful Hercules (M-Pinsir) and i've been able to crush most pokemon with a nice powerful +2 return or EQ. and maybe +3 if i can get a revenge kill and SD. However i must say that i find myself getting scared out by Talonflame a lot. Where i probably shouldn't be because i forget about him. I noticed a conversation about talonflame earlier in the thread so i just thought i would throw up some Calcs for an even attack Pinsir
252+ Atk Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 82-97 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97)
Even non-mega with no boost Pinsir can deal a hefty sum to a Talonflame. If you switch in to pinsir and the opponent has a Talonflame on its team its almost a guaranteed switch in. So its pretty easy to predict the switch-in with return.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 171-202 (111 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(171, 174, 175, 177, 180, 181, 183, 186, 187, 189, 192, 193, 195, 198, 199, 202)
With a mega-return on the switch in Pinsir OHKOs Talonflame no problem. Even with full investment in Defense (who the hell does that anyway?) its an OHKO. so really with a good enough predicting game. Talonflame doesn't stand a chance on a M-Pinsir
EDIT::
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 132-156 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 156)
I forgot to switch the typing of Return to flying. But still its a very Damaging move. and a viable way to try and deal with Tflame. Especially considering it will turn Kamikaze on the next brave bird or flare blitz. Taking down a very powerful sweeper
252+ Atk Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 82-97 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97)
Even non-mega with no boost Pinsir can deal a hefty sum to a Talonflame. If you switch in to pinsir and the opponent has a Talonflame on its team its almost a guaranteed switch in. So its pretty easy to predict the switch-in with return.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 171-202 (111 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(171, 174, 175, 177, 180, 181, 183, 186, 187, 189, 192, 193, 195, 198, 199, 202)
With a mega-return on the switch in Pinsir OHKOs Talonflame no problem. Even with full investment in Defense (who the hell does that anyway?) its an OHKO. so really with a good enough predicting game. Talonflame doesn't stand a chance on a M-Pinsir
EDIT::
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 132-156 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148, 150, 151, 153, 156)
I forgot to switch the typing of Return to flying. But still its a very Damaging move. and a viable way to try and deal with Tflame. Especially considering it will turn Kamikaze on the next brave bird or flare blitz. Taking down a very powerful sweeper
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Ok so, moxie is without a doubt the best and most consistent ability to use. Its surprisingly easy to get a moxie boost since pinsir pressures its opponents to stay in and attack it instead of switching out, in order to not give it a free turn for swords dance. Just come in against a weakened mon and quick attack. Mold Breaker just inst very useful since you can get past rotom easily with some prior damage. Hyper Cutter is only mildly useful against landorus-t, but you can kill it even at +1 anyway. I feel once lucarionite go, mega pinsir is going to be the premier sweeper in the tier. Btw for the cc vs quake debate, close combat is absolute trash, you cant afford to get walled by aegislash, earthquake all the way.
^^ Hyper cutter has been overall the best ability for me (i've been messing with all 3), as weakened pokes are rarely left in for fear of a moxie boost. Hyper cutter will at least prevent intimidate from lowering your attack before you mega-evolve.
Also for those crying about rotom, I run thrash over return, and as long I got to +2 (made easier with hyper cutter) I've OHKO'd every rotom I came across
Also for those crying about rotom, I run thrash over return, and as long I got to +2 (made easier with hyper cutter) I've OHKO'd every rotom I came across
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 219-258 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 240-282 (78.9 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 219-258 (72 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rotom-W: 240-282 (78.9 - 92.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
i dont see how you ohko rotom unless you are running adamant and have sr out and get lucky everytime or if these people are using spc def rotom which doesnt make sense in this meta.
Aeriolate or wtv its called also gives a 30% boost ontop of turning it into a flying type move and giving it stab
I know this is an old question, but what natures are you guys running these days? I'm still sticking with Jolly. I believe it's been a little over a month since we've had that chat.
I'm fairly new to the forums but I've been lurking here quite a bit. Man, I flipped my lid when I found out my bro got an evolution! I'm running Jolly btw.
Well I actually run adamant nature, mainly because it helps me score those extra KOs the Jolly ones can't. I have a klefki providing thunder wave support which I use to slow down the teams faster Pokemon, typically allowing me to outspeed most relevant threats. I do believe Jolly can be more useful but I've had more success with Adamant personally.
I've been running Jolly on every m-pinsir, it's much better imo and puts him at a great speed tier, allowing him to outspeed both megazards, nonscarf chomp, ebelt/lo genesect, hydrei, etc. All those aforementioned pokes outspeed M-Pinsir with a positive speed nature (hydrei usually uses Modest, but whatev). On another note, I think that m-pinsir is a broken piece of shit, due to the fact that it has very strong prio, and nothing can switch in on it at +2; the only pokemon that can do this is a max health skarm, and skarm loses if rocks are up. It also has to hope for low rolls on both Frustrations if it's holding Rocky Helm (+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), and BB doesn't even OHKO.
Edit: this shit is also very overcentralizing, and restricts teambuilding like a bitch. if you don't run a scarfer that can OHKO it, or something that's naturally faster and can live a +2 QA, or something that walls it at +0 and provokes the opponent to double switch to something that can handle that wall, you will get swept by this bitch unless you play around it.
Edit: this shit is also very overcentralizing, and restricts teambuilding like a bitch. if you don't run a scarfer that can OHKO it, or something that's naturally faster and can live a +2 QA, or something that walls it at +0 and provokes the opponent to double switch to something that can handle that wall, you will get swept by this bitch unless you play around it.
I don't believe Pinsir is all that centralizing because common OU mons put a stop to him in most situations. Skarmory, Rotom, Zapdos, Thundurus, Scarfed Terrakion, talonflame, Pranksters, etc et all. He's basically the new Dragon Dance Haxorus with a priority move. He's rather difficult to setup and rather easy to check, in my opinion. Eh but i'm not that high on the ladder so I'm not an expert at the meta (peaked at 1700)
For Pinsir I found that using Mold Breaker is better than Moxie or Hyper cutter if you run earthquake, that way you can hit unsuspecting Rotom-Ws for super effective damage. If they switch out into something other than a flying type, you've already weakened that Pokemon possibly for a KO next turn. It may be a little Niche using it mainly for Rotom, but seeing as how high that is on the usage list, its a strategy you may use more than a few times.
Substitute really isn't even that good on any mega, because not having Leftovers to further set-up Sub throughout the game hinders it -that- much. And that's why I think SubPunch Mega Heracross/Mawile isn't that good, even if they effectively lure and kill Pokemon.
I say this from personal experience, but most smart players will actually see the Mold Breaker coming because it's really obvious. That's the main issue. Fishing for Moxie boosts is better imo.
I've personally found Hyper Cutter to be a great ability because you can set-up on a predicted intimidator switch like Landorus-T for example.
Mold Breaker let's the opponent know it is in effect, so it will only catch an opponent that is not paying attention. Admittedly I am a victim of that. Un-Mega Evolved Mold Breaker EQ isn't something you can throw out safely since it is pretty weak and it can be punished. It's only comes into play with Rotom-W on the opposing team. Hyper Cutter only comes into play when the opponent has an Intimidate user: Landorus-T or Mega-Manetric (which you won't beat anyway). So both Hyper Cutter and Mold Breaker EQ are extremely situational: they only see use when A. the opponent has a certain Pokemon on their team and B. chooses to switch that Pokemon on Pinsir.
Moxie on the other hand can be applied to all of your matches. It adds an extra dimension to Pinsir as a threat: it can passively pick up boosts with EQ or Quick Attack. This can be incredibly handy in late game situations where you absolutely need to pick up a boost to cleanup. In the lategame, something maybe weak enough to fall to Quick Attack or Earthquake. Here is a tournament battle where that is exactly what happened (note QA does 4.1% min to ttar). Moxie overall is the most effective because it has the largest scope of battles / targets where it can be applied and its effects lasts through when you Mega-Evolve, i.e. the attack boost.
Moxie on the other hand can be applied to all of your matches. It adds an extra dimension to Pinsir as a threat: it can passively pick up boosts with EQ or Quick Attack. This can be incredibly handy in late game situations where you absolutely need to pick up a boost to cleanup. In the lategame, something maybe weak enough to fall to Quick Attack or Earthquake. Here is a tournament battle where that is exactly what happened (note QA does 4.1% min to ttar). Moxie overall is the most effective because it has the largest scope of battles / targets where it can be applied and its effects lasts through when you Mega-Evolve, i.e. the attack boost.
Mold Breaker's announcement can be a strength in its own way: even if you don't stay untransformed to EQ a switch-in, it can give you a turn when they'll be hesitant to send in their Rotom. Only works once, but it could give you the chance to get crucial set-up or damage to their other teammates.
But yeah, it's not broken. It hits hard, but it's very reliant on support to keep it from getting ripped apart by hazards.
But yeah, it's not broken. It hits hard, but it's very reliant on support to keep it from getting ripped apart by hazards.
Hyper Cutter is without a doubt the best ability for it imo, mainly for the extremely common lando t switch-ins. Mold Breaker requires you to stay in regular pinsir form, which sucks because pinsir before mega evolving is weak and has no coverage to speak of.Hyper cutter protects against lando t, mega man, and gyarados switch ins, which are very common. Moxie is decent, but situational and not as good as hc.
Thundy can't switch in, rotom can't switch in to +2, talon can't switch in, if sableye is weakened it dies to +2 qa. Also, it's pretty easy to set up with it in my experience.
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