• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Metagame Pokébilities

MacChaeger said:
Due to the way the game handles Greninja having an extra ability, the one with Battle Bond is actually a different forme with Battle Bind for all it's abilities, while the normal one still only has Torrent and Protean. As such, a Battle Bond Greninja won't have any innate abilities in Pokebilities, and a Protean Greninja won't have Battle Bond, as is explained in the OP. This means that Protean Greninja is most likely still better than Battle Bond.

P.S. omotm hype!!!
Click to expand...
I would think that the reverse is true, though. Ash Greninja is better then Protean Greninja in standard (source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ou-viability-ranking-thread-preliminary.3590726/), and since nobody uses water moves on Greninja Torrent should be unimportant. While Protean Greninja might be handy with stuff like Gunk Shot to beat Clefable, I think Ash-Gren is probably still better.
 
...I thought no one used Dark moves on Greninja instead of Water moves. You could probably argue either way, but I'm in the Protean camp, simply due to the sheer versatility of Greninja. It also dunks on Dragons better.

Since this isn't a one-liner, did we cover Dugtrio on Sand teams yet? It seems horrible to face with trapping abilities, along with power and evasion boosts in sandstorm. It's probably going to be a mainstay in Sand Stall. (if that even exists...)
 
Heatproof is nice, but it doesn't change that Bronzong is set-up fodder for anything bulky and relatively slow (good lick chipping enough with Gyro Ball to shut down something like SubDD Gyarados), and that fact that it has poor HP and no recovery means it's not doing anything it wasn't already doing in Standard.
 
Very interteresting idea for a metagame!

One of the underrated threats that might make an impact is Bruxish. All three of their abilities are great when joined together. If you pack a Choice Scarf, you would almost always be able to go first without having to worry about priority. Strong Jaw gives it more power, and Wonder Skin reduces the chances of paralysis and burn.

Bruxish @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang

Poison Fang could be used in the last slot if you want to inflict toxic poison.

Or if you love to use cute Pokemon, why not check Cinccino out? Technician combined with Skill link makes for an absurdly powerful STAB Tail Slap that can break through Substitutes without trouble.
 
Question: All mons that have access to a banned ability are wholly banned from this meta, yes? For instance, Bibarel is Uber in this meta because of its access to Moody, correct? Apologies if this has been answered already.

Edit: Another question: How does this meta work with move/ability illegalities? Like Magic Bounce Espeon can't learn Happy Hour, but if I set its ability to synchronize can I use that combination? Also, the tapus have an unreleased ability in Telepathy; can I not use the tapus at all? Or will they just not have that ability?

Haven't played yet, but Azumarill seems like a solid threat. Huge Power + Sap Sipper + Thick Fat is nifty. I'm also tempted to run a hail team which is basically the same as always but everything gets snow cloak added, which is cool.

Also ban Poryz please. Jesus.

E2: Jynx has the combination of Forewarn and Dry Skin, which is completely irrelevant competitively, but nevertheless the combination deserves a name and that name is Dry Foreskin.
 
Last edited:
koista12 said:
Some thoughts:

Not very many seventh gen mons benefit from this very much - telepathy is useless on the tapus, UBs only get Beast Boost, and Merciless is rather situational for toxapex. The only new mon likely to be OU who cares about this is Marowak-A; no recoil flare blitz is a major upgrade from fire punch if you wanted to previously avoid recoil.


From standard OU, Excarill really stands out to me seeing as how it now gets doubled speed and stupidly strong moves. Azumarill gets a grass immunity and 4× fire and ice resists with huge power. Ferrothorn is able to scout HP fire while keeping Iron Barbs. And Zapdos now gets Static, Pressure and Defog all on the same set. Breloom also gets stronger stabs on the poison heal set and a toxic immunity on its offensive ones

Idk why the OP mentions Salamence though. Its still a terrible option to run over the multitude of amazing dragon dancers in OU - Zard X, Mega Gyara, normal gyara and dragonite if you want to be hipster, and the newly viable Zygarde comes with amazing STAB, a better typing, and E-Speed. Salamence still has every issue it had 6th gen

Edit: oh shit porygod is amazing. Download + Adapatability is crazy strong
Click to expand...
Hidden Power, Judgment, Weather Ball, and Natural Gift are treated as Normal-type moves. Counter, Metal Burst, and Mirror Coat do not trigger Anticipation.
 
Congrats on OMotM.

After playing for a while, I find Porygon-Z just looks broken on paper, BUT... not really in practice. It still have the same problem of needing an opportunity to setup AND it's getting exacerbated in this meta due to mons hitting harder. Without setup, it's still Normal type, which is, well a crappy typing both offensively and defensively (it has problems with Excadrill, Gigalith, Conk, etc).

On the other hand, Excadrill IS amazing, as well as Ursaring. Excadrill gets SO many sweeps because LO + Sand Force basically gives Earthquake 169 BP and Iron head 135 BP. I don't know if it's broken, but Excadrill is probably the closest thing to the best mon in the meta.

Also Conkeldurr... I terribly underestimated this thing. Iron Fist + Sheer Force basically gives Elemental punches 120 BP, 135 BP Drain Punch after STAB and a 104 BP Poison Jab. And all of those are WITHOUT Guts boost. It's probably one of the most threatening mon right now I think.

But yeah. If anything needs a suspect, it's Excadrill.
 
You might be right about Excadrill being a suspect. What one might assume would make a perfect counter would be another weather setter, but even those would find it difficult to directly counter this drill. Pelipper may resist both STABs but is outsped and 2HKOed by Rock Slide, even with maximum Defense investment and Rain Dish. Ordinary Ninetales can easily OHKO drill with Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but cannot switch in on Earthquake or Rock Slide. The only Hail user that stands a chance is Alolan Ninetales', and really the only way is to switch in freely and put Excadrill to sleep with the 60% accurate Hypnosis, because just using Blizzard won't be enough, while drill can hit back with Iron Head.
 
Fizz said:
Question: All mons that have access to a banned ability are wholly banned from this meta, yes? For instance, Bibarel is Uber in this meta because of its access to Moody, correct? Apologies if this has been answered already.
Click to expand...
No, it simply wont get Moody because its banned from OU.
Fizz said:
Edit: Another question: How does this meta work with move/ability illegalities? Like Magic Bounce Espeon can't learn Happy Hour, but if I set its ability to synchronize can I use that combination? Also, the tapus have an unreleased ability in Telepathy; can I not use the tapus at all? Or will they just not have that ability?
Click to expand...
You can use such combinations only if you have the appropriate ability in the ability slot. And mons can't get unreleased HAs; Read the OP.
 
K since I'm kinda busy and not everyday I can access smogon, I'll share my team that made two of my alts into top 5 (even though the ladder is a day old). Hopefully this will make you have a clearer picture of the meta.

wu7MOJg.png

450.gif
530.gif
474.gif
184.gif
786.png
534.gif


Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Conversion
- Ice Beam

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

Tapu Lele @ Mind Plate
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

K so, the team is centered around Excadrill and Porygon-Z sweeps, though in practice, 80% of the time I find Excadrill is the one who sweeps. Conkeldurr and Azumarill is there to handle opposing Excadrill as well as to handle things like Celesteela that walls Excadrill. They are both good, especially Azumarill because it has very good typing with an immunity of one of it's weakness. Conkeldurr also hardly have switchins either due to Guts + Sheer Force + Iron Fist practically 2HKOing ALL of the meta. I carry Tapu Lele to prevent my Excadrill from being hit by Mach Punch or Aqua Jet and because I find some annoying people used Stall and I lost to it (good thing I no longer lost since I carry Tapu Lele). Hippowdon is there as sand setter, hazard setter and walling stuff while hitting decently hard with Sand Force boosted Edgequake from 112 Attack.

You may think "lol Tapu Lele paired with Conk and Azu is counterproductive because it prevents you from revenging opposing Excadrill." That may be true but so far I've had little issues with it since Psychic Terrain only last 5 Turns. All you need is a little thinking and you'd have no trouble with Priorities.

Edit: I see people got discouraged using mons with only one Ability. Remember that MANY mons are still good even though it benefits nothing in the meta. Tapu Lele above is the proof, and I'm sure all of the Tapus are still good (Tapu Bulu got buffed indirectly because Skarmory isn't preferable to wall anything due to Weak Armor dropping defenses after getting hit, so that's one less wall to worry about). Greninja is still good, as well as Pheromosa, Genesect and most of the good megas like Zard formes, Mega Gyarados (which check Exca). So I suggest you to use those mons even if they doesn't benefit from the meta's mechanics.
 
Last edited:
Psychobuzz said:
You might be right about Excadrill being a suspect. What one might assume would make a perfect counter would be another weather setter, but even those would find it difficult to directly counter this drill. Pelipper may resist both STABs but is outsped and 2HKOed by Rock Slide, even with maximum Defense investment and Rain Dish. Ordinary Ninetales can easily OHKO drill with Flamethrower/Fire Blast, but cannot switch in on Earthquake or Rock Slide. The only Hail user that stands a chance is Alolan Ninetales', and really the only way is to switch in freely and put Excadrill to sleep with the 60% accurate Hypnosis, because just using Blizzard won't be enough, while drill can hit back with Iron Head.
Click to expand...
While it's true that excadrill is strong, I have been running stall and it's possible to reliably wall it. Tangrowth, Buzzwole, Gliscor, Celebi, Mega Slowbro, Gligar (It's not a meme I swear), etc. There are also a bunch of great offensive checks, like Landorus-T, Azumarill, Greninja, and Conkeldurr or soft counters like Pelliper, Heat Wave Zapdos, and Porygon2. I'm not certain it's not banworthy, but in my opinion the reasoning would have more to do with its excellent matchup vs offense rather than its unwallability.
 
There's a pokemon whose will be one of the best pokemon in the meta even it doesn't benefit from it; I'm of course talking about of Kartana:

-Because of the (almost?) non-existence of Skarmory with Weak Armor, it doesn't have much counters.
-Its defensive and offensive types, alongside with its stats, are great to check fairies like Azumarill, Clefairy and Lele, and it's one of the best pokemons to check Sand teams.


I agree with Why Nerdy with Excadrill being the BEST pokemon in the meta because of those sand streamers like Gigalith and Hippowdon:

-Speed boosted with Sand Rush
-Moves like Iron Head, Rock Slide and Earthquake are boosted by Sand Force
-And the cherry on the top, no Levitate users aren't safe by Mold Breaker

This needs to be suspected as soon as possible because no switch-in is safe against Excadrill.
 
Once all the hype dies down I think people will find Excadrill to be a very good Pokemon, but not to the point where it needs a quickban. A suspect, I can get behind, though. It's incredibly fast + strong but susceptible to priorty and revenged relatively easily outside of sand. Speaking of which, GIGALITH IS BAD PEOPLE PLEASE STOP USING IT. Not to mention there's a bunch of Pokemon like BUzzwole, Gliscor and Tangrowth that can switch into it.

Another mon ppl have been hyping up is Porygon-Z. TBH I think its pretty decent at best. Its frail so it has a hard time setting up conversion, especially in an HO-filled meta such as this, and even then its not especially fast or especially strong, unless you get a correct download boost. Mons like Clefable (Which I think is really good btw, top 3 mon easily), Tyranitar, etc. can eat a hit and it can also be revenged by fast stuff like ursaring, Excadrill, etcetera.

It seems people have caught on that Gumshoos, despite all the talk on it, is actually pretty terrible thanks to its sub-par stats, so im glad people aren't using that thing on the ladder. I've had some good success w/ a stall team that hit #1 recently, and even on that team it isn't much of an issue thanks to Dugtrio just being able to eliminate it instantly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: QT
Wanna also point out that A!Dugtrio gets Sand Veil AND Sand Force so it can go with Gigalith/Hippowdon very well
 
no...

just no...
Bronzong @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate/Heavy Metal/Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Heavy Slam
- Heal Block
something like this, (just an example set, don't take it seriously)

damn
 
I'd like to point out that Aerial Ace Excadrill is NOT a meme, and 2HKOs Buzzwole. Gliscor has a (low) chance to be OHKO'd at +2 by Adamant Life Orb. Idk Tangrowth's or Gligar's calcs off the top if my head.

Dugtrio makes a great partner, as it can trap and help wear down checks to Excadrill (besides Flying types).

PZ has been disappointing so far. It's not bad by any means, but I rarely get the chance to bring it in. When I do get it in and get to attack, something dies.

Don't laugh, but I've been using a resttalk Azumarill set to surprising success. STABs, lefties, and 252 HP and Attack Adamant. The extra immunity/resists give it great survivability.

Brightpowder Ninetales-Alola is cancer.
 
I'll have to try Aerial Ace, though I've been running Jolly so I don't auto-lose to opposing Excadrill.

I support a quickban of Alolan Ninetales. There's no "competitive" viability to the set, it's like spamming Swagger. Don't bother suspecting it, it's garbage that's fucking up the tier.

Or ban Snow Veil, I don't know how the actual banning would work (Aurora Veil has some worth to it, so expanding Evasion Clause like was done late in BW2 sounds like a decent idea to me).

EDIT: Forgot to mention Clefable. Stacking Unaware with Magic Guard (and Cute Charm as a nice little bonus) AND getting Softboiled is un-fucking-real. CM+2 Attacks is crazy, and I'm sure all its other sets are just as mean. Sucks that it gets ganked by Excadrill, but I'm seeing enough Excadrill answers come out of the woodwork (Flame Orb Conk is also super dirty if no one's mentioned that yet) that it still does a lot of damage.
 
Last edited:
Schpoonman said:
Flame Orb Conk is also super dirty if no one's mentioned that yet that it still does a lot of damage.
Click to expand...

Why you need Flame Orb when you have Life Orb which neglicted its recoil effect with Sheer Force?
I mean, if a pokémon uses a status move, not only Guts will boost your Attack, but your next move will be stronger with LO.
 
Has anyone tried out Snorlax yet? This looks like a strong set:
143.png

Snorlax @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Return
- Curse
- Crunch
- Recycle
Who needs rest? Gluttony with recycle lets Snorlax eat the aguav berry at 50% hp and effectively turns recycle into recover. Immunity prevents it from receiving toxic. Thick fat is just icing on the cake. Use curse a couple of times and you're in business. In fact, if you can get a clean switch in your first couple of curses are extra hard to punish due to the berry activating on its own.
 
Elecktrochoko said:
Why you need Flame Orb when you have Life Orb which neglicted its recoil effect with Sheer Force?
I mean, if a pokémon uses a status move, not only Guts will boost your Attack, but your next move will be stronger with LO.
Click to expand...
Guts is a bigger boost to all your moves, and with a Flame Orb you can control the status you have to deal with. Sheer Force doesn't boost Drain or Mach Punch (while you take an additional 10% chip from Life Orb). LO SF IF Guts Ice Punch sounds really cool, but then you realize you're opening yourself up to paralysis and poison (it's really hard to understate just how good Flame Orb Guts Pokemon are in SM) as well as unnecessary chip damage for 3 of your most important moves in Drain Punch, Mach Punch, and Knock Off.

I've also found status in general to not be nearly as common in Pokebilities. Toxapex is nowhere to be seen (though in your scenario, you DO one-shot it with Adamant LO Thunder Punch), and the metagame is pretty fast-paced right now. Okay, so I just had a game where I did get slapped with a Toxic and then started meming on stuff with Life Orb, but I'm holding to it that Flame Orb will be more consistent.
 
K. As much as I hate to admit, I have to say that Hippowdon is a superior mon as a Sandstorm setter and hazard setter than Gigalith. My sand team in post #88 started losing when I realized that Gigalith is... mediocre. I changed Gigalith to Hippowdon and I re-peaked.

So I edited my team in post #88. I replaced Gigalith with Hippowdon, because it's just a better mon in general. The bad thing is, I kinda don't have a Band Cinccino answer besides Mach Punch Conkeldurr because Band Cinccino 2HKOs max HP/Def Hippowdon with Tail Slap (not even Bullet Seed). So yeah, be careful of Cinccino.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top