Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

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You can go in Lostlorn forest as soon as you get the Insect Badge, just like Desert Resort :) and then you can backtrack and grind against all the ground types in Desert Resort
You can't go to lostlorn forest as soon as you get the insect badge because you have to go through route 4(The desert!). Maractus still comes before the lostlorn grass types whether it's an optional area or not.
 
Maractus has only sparked the conversation of whether he is before or at the same time as the people in lostlorn forest. :P

Am I really the only person to use the second-best grass in the game according to our standards? (first snivy obv)
 
The traded Gigalith is actually above any other one you'd find. It has the boosted experience, it's evolved, and the chances of actually having an Adamant one otherwise are pretty slim. Its only downside is that its got quite shitty type coverage, but I never needed more than Smack Down/Bulldoze/Rock Blast (Rock Slide later, skipped Stone Edge for accuracy). I dropped my Boldore immediately after realizing how much better this dude was, though Boldore isn't that bad either (but why skip out on the free trade?)

I also ended up switching my Emboar out for a Simisear before too long. Emboar just has such a garbage learning set, and Simisear's Acrobatics/Crunch/Flamethrower/Yawn was an enormous boosting help. I'm not sure how useful it would be before getting that movepool though, and it took me half an hour to find one.

At the same time as that, I switched out Leavanny for Simisage. Losing the bug coverage really wasn't a problem for me anywhere, because losing the weaknesses of a bug type made up for it. It was good for a couple gyms, then it just started dragging (though not as much as Emboar).
 
Emolga is a bitch to find (I over react, not so hard :)) but yeah traded Gigalith has nice level, perfect nature, very good IV, and destroy the Flying Gym (except Swanna maybe) Too bad the Normal, Poison, Bug (and Electric) gyms are before ...
 
Emolga is actually fairly easy to find in the route that the trade is on, considering there are walkways you can go back and forth on until you see shaking grass (and besides - 10% Emolga and 85% Audino? No complaints here).
 

Geodude6

Look at my shiny CT!
I didn't notice this in the OP so here ya go:

Magikarp--No tier
Availability: Can only be bought on the Marvelous Bridge, which is not accessible until the post-game.
 

cant say

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I didn't notice this in the OP so here ya go:

Magikarp--No tier
Availability: Can only be bought on the Marvelous Bridge, which is not accessible until the post-game.
The tier list only goes up until the E4 so post game 'mons don't get tiered

We are still comparing Pokemon to each other, the Emboar vs Simisear and Leavanny vs Simisage are invalid. If you're going to tier something, do it on its own merits, not on who it's better than and what's better than it.

EDIT: and it shouldn't matter who is available at the same time as Maractus, it should be tiered how IT performs if you chose it
 
I don't exactly see how that was comparison though.

Leavanny is still decent enough due to Liepards, plus Bug Bite is nice STAB earlygame.

Emboar does get hurt quite a bit since Scald comes a lot later and Brick Break might as well not exist anymore. Flame Charge is still good though, and any instance of BB can be replaced with Hammer Arm.
 
That's the thing though. Bug types in general are only good through to about midgame. Unless you're talking Heracross.
Uh, not exactly for this game. Leavanny is good going into the last few battles, with a good matchup against Grimsley, Marlon and Caitlin, and can take on the other two E4 members with the appropriate coverage moves. It's not complete deadweight imo.
 
Huh. So Pinsir's High on the current preliminary tierings, but I'm having my own problems with it ingame:

Name: Pinsir - Low Tier (White 2)
Availability: Commonly found in Lostlorn Forest (available before the third gym). (In Black 2, it's basically impossible to reliably obtain.)
Stats: These are pretty good for an in-game physical sweeper; it's got loads of attack, and enough speed that it'll be faster than the majority of things the AI sends out against you.
Typing: Pure Bug is pretty decent in-game, able to switch in on a wide range of enemies; it mostly fears the relatively common Flying-types. Pinsir in particular, however, suffers from an inability to use its STAB until it hits level 29 (unless you want to rely on Struggle Bug, and you shouldn't).
Movepool: This is where it all falls apart. Pinsir has access to a huge range of Fighting-type moves, and basically nothing else; so it's only going to be hitting Normal- and Steel-types for a while (it's probably best to keep it away from Rock-types, because they tend to be physically defensive enough to take hits and KO back). You can use Return for a bit of extra coverage, but until X-Scissor, you're in trouble. After that, you do a bit better, with coverage against Dark and Psychic as well, but it's still not covering nearly as much as you'd want from an in-game team member. At least it has plenty of slots free for HMs; it can learn both Cut and Strength. (I also tried Swords Dance, but it rarely lives long enough to set it up.)
Major Battles: Pinsir has neutral matchups against most plot enemies: of the enemies after you obtain it, it's not going to be the best choice against Elesa, Burgh, Clay, or Marlon, because it can only hit neutrally (except on Clay's Krokorok) and the opponents frequently have (at least in Challenge Mode) coverage moves (or even secondary STAB) against it. Skyla is obviously a disaster. It's a bit less useless against Drayden (and his gym generally) because it beats members of the Deino line that don't have Fire-type coverage moves (which is why it doesn't do so well against Ghetsis). It does pretty well against Colress's Steel types, though. I haven't tried it against the Elite 4, because I'm planning to ditch it (and came to this thread in search of an alternative Bug-type, in fact); there's not much point in switching in on Fighting-types if you can't hit them hard and they rip you apart with coverage moves the next turn, and it can't touch Ghost-types, although I expect it to do better against Caitlin and Grimsby.
Additional Comments: There are some things that Pinsir is made for: it's pretty good at defeating Steels, and (with Hyper Cutter) is one of the best things you could use against the Sandline line. It's also pretty good against Plasma grunts, who tend to be weak to Fighting. The problem is that it's just underwhelming in so many battles; it's had to be my lead for rather more than its fair share in order to keep up with the rest of the team. And although it's great at switching in, it can't really do much when it's there.
 
About pinsir, why is it only neutral? It hits krokorok and claydol with X-scissor, and excadrill with whatever fighting type move at that point.
And besides, if you are trying not to be under-leveled you should be level 29 before/one battle after Elesa, not hard.
 
Although I already have a post in this thread detailing my thoughts on Pinsir, I'd like to respond to some of the comments I've seen about it.

I'll start with what's obvious: typing. Yes, Bug type attacks are not going to carry anyone all the way through this game - so it is fortunate that Pinsir has access to a fair vairety of Fighting-type moves, and it can also learn Rock Slide and Bulldoze, both of which can offer great coverage alongside X-Scissor and Brick Break / Superpower. As CJorex said, it isn't much of a wait for Pinsir to learn X-Scissor at Lv. 29. One of the reasons for this is that has Brick Break when you catch it, a move that makes dogmeat out of normal-, dark- and steel- types. If you caught it after Elesa (like I did) it can still be ready for Clay's Gym by the time you get there. In addition, X-Scissor is a reliable STAB move, and once you have Swords Dance you more or less have a bread and butter sweeper that can handle most trainers and grunts.
I often used Pinsir as a lead and I was quite pleased with its performance - most of the time I only had to switch out if the opponent could directly threaten it. It has a field day against Zinzolin's mons, and Colress's too; and it did great in the Plasma Frigate, and other opporunities to abuse Rock Slide in double battles. I've been into details about its performance in important battles in my earlier post, but to summarise, it is useful in gyms not including Skyla, it is great against Caitlin and Grimsley and fares well against Iris if you play it right.

All of this in mind, to make the best use out of Pinsir I recommend you run Swords Dance with X-Scissor, Rock Slide, and either Brick Break or Superpower. If you're worried about not having a chance to set up, 85 Spe is still good even when you have a Sassy nature (like mine did) and 60 HP / 100 Def / 70 Spd is not too shabby either.

It's also worth noting that Pinsir is not commonly found in Lostlorn Forest: what is it, 5% encounter rate? 10%? I was fortunate to find one in under five minutes, but I suspect if I had looked for a different one I would have been shuffling grass for a while longer.
 
Been using this pokemon for a while and while I haven't finished my game (just finished Marlon) yet I think I can write up an educated guess for the tier.



Name: Nosepass (Low tier)

Availability: 10% chance in Chargestone Cave. Moderately rare but at least you have the advantage of evolving it in the same location straight away. Can be caught as soon as you finish Elesa but it's not really recommended using against Clay, especially if you evolve it straight away.

Typing: Not the best typing. Rock/Steel gives you a major weakness to Fighting and Ground but Sturdy somewhat remedies this for one turn at least. Aside from that, Probopass has gargantuan defenses so could function as a good wall while you heal your other team members, more effective with Sturdy of course. Typing is also gives good resistances to most Team Plasma pokemon.

Movepool: Shaky when you first get it since Nosepass doesn't have the best offenses. That said, the moves it learns are quite interesting as Probopass is as close as you can get to a special-based Rock type with a fairly decent special attack. It can also use moves such as Power Gem, Discharge/Thunderbolt and Earth Power so as a Rock type, it's quite unique in that aspect (and to be honest, I actually had fun using these moves).

Do note that it will take time to get to the decent Special moves and you may even have to rely on Volt Switch before you even get Discharge. It actually gets the good physical Rock moves (Rock Blast/Rock Slide) as soon as you get it but it can't use it properly with its Attack so you'll have to persevere until you get Power Gem in a few levels. Sure Probopass will have a hard time OHKO or even 2HKOing things but you get cool points just for using these moves on a Rock/Steel type (it takes a while to get the good moves though)!

Major Battles:
-Clay- Don't even think about it.
-Skyla- Shines in this gym the most. May have to watch out for Swanna's Water attacks though but a Sturdy+Discharge combo also hurts the Swanna line's Water/Flying typing.
-Drayden- Decent, at least it resists the Dragon type moves. Not much it can do though except maybe paralysis with Discharge.
-Marlon- Even with Sturdy it would be a bad idea, especially with Scald.
-Colress- Actually does pretty well. Earth Power would be the move of choice against his steel types. Colress can't really do much back except paralyse you or hope for Flash Cannon Special Defense drops but Probopass has low speed/high Special Defense anyway so you shouldn't have too much trouble. Laughs at Beheeyem provided it doesn't boost up too much.
-Ghetsis- Being immune to the Toxistalling Cofagrigus is a good thing, Hydreigon can't do much to you. Have to watch out for the rest of the team's Ground/Fighting attacks though.
-Marshall- No.
-Shauntal- Does okay against Cofagrigus and Drifblim. Stay away from the other half of her team though.
-Caitlin- Can be decent, particularly against Sigilyph with it's high Special Defense. Watch out for Reuniclus's Focus Blast though.
-Grimsley- Stay away from Scarfty and Krookodile.
-Iris- Not too good. Only uses would be as a pivot against Archaeops.

Additional Comments: Probopass has quite a good list of flaws but I actually had fun using it since its rare to have a specially-based Rock type with a fairly unique movepool. Discharge/Thunder Wave gives it good utility and with Sturdy, functions as a great support mon for your team especially if you want a wall to bide time while you heal. Take advantage of its high defenses if you want to use it. Despite its low tiering I do enjoy Probopass as part of my team for its uniqueness and something different, just don't expect it to be sweeping teams anytime soon.
 
Although I already have a post in this thread detailing my thoughts on Pinsir, I'd like to respond to some of the comments I've seen about it.

I'll start with what's obvious: typing. Yes, Bug type attacks are not going to carry anyone all the way through this game - so it is fortunate that Pinsir has access to a fair vairety of Fighting-type moves, and it can also learn Rock Slide and Bulldoze, both of which can offer great coverage alongside X-Scissor and Brick Break / Superpower. As CJorex said, it isn't much of a wait for Pinsir to learn X-Scissor at Lv. 29. One of the reasons for this is that has Brick Break when you catch it, a move that makes dogmeat out of normal-, dark- and steel- types. If you caught it after Elesa (like I did) it can still be ready for Clay's Gym by the time you get there. In addition, X-Scissor is a reliable STAB move, and once you have Swords Dance you more or less have a bread and butter sweeper that can handle most trainers and grunts.
I often used Pinsir as a lead and I was quite pleased with its performance - most of the time I only had to switch out if the opponent could directly threaten it. It has a field day against Zinzolin's mons, and Colress's too; and it did great in the Plasma Frigate, and other opporunities to abuse Rock Slide in double battles. I've been into details about its performance in important battles in my earlier post, but to summarise, it is useful in gyms not including Skyla, it is great against Caitlin and Grimsley and fares well against Iris if you play it right.
I actually decided to just suck it up and try it out in the Elite Four. I didn't have much trouble with them (beat the Four themselves first try, and Iris the second), but it was because of the rest of my team, not Pinsir. It did do pretty well against Grimsley, but I couldn't keep it alive against Caitlin (switched it out of Sigilyph for obvious reasons, and couldn't switch it back in), it's complete junk against Shauntal, and I didn't try it against Marshal because I used the strategy of setting my Claydol up with X items instead. I couldn't make it work against Iris either; anything I wanted to hit with it could outspeed and OHKO it. Perhaps I was underleveled, but I couldn't really get opportunities to set up Swords Dance even against random trainers; it was mostly a dead move. (Although, of course, one way to measure "how good is this Pokémon ingame" is "how underleveled can you be while still performing well with this Pokémon"?) If you want an idea of my levelling rate, I was at 57-58 at the Elite Four.

All of this in mind, to make the best use out of Pinsir I recommend you run Swords Dance with X-Scissor, Rock Slide, and either Brick Break or Superpower. If you're worried about not having a chance to set up, 85 Spe is still good even when you have a Sassy nature (like mine did) and 60 HP / 100 Def / 70 Spd is not too shabby either.
I didn't think of Rock Slide (and possibly don't own the TM); I was running X-Scissor / Superpower / Swords Dance / Strength. The problem was in defences, more than in any of the other stats; it couldn't take more than one neutral hit, and opponents could often hit it supereffectively. (Because it probably matters, I was running in Challenge Mode, Set-style battles for difficulty purposes. Switch versus Set should probably be explored more in the tiering, because some moves, like Charm, are much better under Set.)

It's also worth noting that Pinsir is not commonly found in Lostlorn Forest: what is it, 5% encounter rate? 10%? I was fortunate to find one in under five minutes, but I suspect if I had looked for a different one I would have been shuffling grass for a while longer.
It's 20% according to the source I looked at (albeit not a 100% reliable one).


And looking through the thread, seems that there aren't any suggestions about Baltoy > Claydol, so because I was using it:

Name: Baltoy - Mid Tier
Availability: It appears in Volcarona's room in Relic Castle, which is accessible after the PWT, but it requires a very large detour from the normal route through the game. Actually getting it to appear isn't hard once you've done that, but you still have to have beaten five gyms, so it's a way through the game.
Stats: Baltoy's stats are pretty good, but Claydol is fast enough for in-game, has plenty of SpAtk, and is bulky enough that it won't usually die in one hit even to a super-effective move.
Typing: Ground/Psychic with Levitate gives a very valuable set of resistances to Ground, Rock, and Fighting, which is frequently used as a STAB+coverage combination by in-game trainers, and being immune to Electric is nice. It also has several weaknesses, that need to be covered by other members of your team. The STAB combo hits most of the enemies you'd want to use Claydol against super-effectively, apart from the occasional Flying-type or Levitator.
Movepool: The main STAB you'll be using is Extrasensory/Earth Power. Extrasensory is obtained almost immediately, and the move you'll be relying on to start with. Earth Power comes later than you really want it to at level 40, but still early enough for you to get a lot of use out of it. The level-up movepool is quite shallow apart from that (although there are options like AncientPower and Cosmic Power), and there are some interesting TM options like Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. For "HM"s, you have just Strength (which is mostly a waste of a moveslot) and Flash (which is a waste of a moveslot, but which can be deleted because it's technically a TM, and so can just be repeatedly swapped with another TM move).
Major Battles: Most of the Gym Leaders you'd want to use Claydol against have sadly already been beaten by the time you get it. It does pretty well against Colress, though, and later Marshall (I soloed Marshall with mine, although this requires a bunch of X items for setting up). Its strength is more in beating the more ordinary sort of trainer.
Additional Comments: When you get Baltoy, it isn't very good, but it gets better and better as the game goes on; its unusual typing, with the option of a couple of good coverage moves, is pretty good at shoring up weaknesses a team might have to Electric and Fighting in particular, while not being useless against other types. It's also OK for use as a pivot, or something to send out while you revive other members of your team, and works well with strategies like X item stall. By the end of the game, it's doing more work for a team than such in-game powerhouses as Azumarill and Magnezone; it just takes much more work to get it there.
 
I'm sorry, but anything that assumes Challenge Mode will not be taken into account. We tier after Normal Mode only, so I'm sorry to say that your posts will not count if that's the case.
 
I'm sorry, but anything that assumes Challenge Mode will not be taken into account. We tier after Normal Mode only, so I'm sorry to say that your posts will not count if that's the case.
Ah, I hadn't realised that. I'm not assuming Challenge Mode intentionally, but I haven't played Normal Mode, so I may be misinformed on that basis.
 
Personally I still don't see the reason to discuss anything but Challenge Mode. It's the hardest difficulty so it's intuitive that it's the one mode that needs its tier list.
 

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Personally I still don't see the reason to discuss anything but Challenge Mode. It's the hardest difficulty so it's intuitive that it's the one mode that needs its tier list.
To be fair, anything that is good on Challenge mode should be pretty much the same (if not better) in Normal mode. Normal mode is the game default and it should be the one we tier to. If Challenge mode was available from the off on every cart, then I would agree, but it doesn't.
 
Personally I still don't see the reason to discuss anything but Challenge Mode. It's the hardest difficulty so it's intuitive that it's the one mode that needs its tier list.
From the OP:

What is an in-game tier list?

In-game tier lists rank Pokémon according to their usefulness during the main portion of the game—that is, until the credits roll for the first time. In-game tier lists provide players with the information needed to complete the game as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. For competitively-minded players, this approach to playing the game gives them more immediate access to useful items, TMs, and HMs.
This is the main, if not the only, purpose of all in-game tier lists. And since Normal Mode is the default, we will tier based upon that.
 
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