Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

[Magcargo]

105 Base SpDef isn't terrible in the least bit. Sandslash is in the same tier and gets wrecked even harder by special attackers and lacks speed to set up against them in the first place. At least Cof can nerf physical attackers and hit their sweet spots.

Meh, I guess your right. However, Cofagrigus has low HP. Also, why hasn't metang been added?

 

[Alice in Strings]

I'll start using Yamask in my W2 Nuzlocke and see how he fairs. Mind you, this whole "He could be good in Mid" is just a hunch I have.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Meh, I guess your right. However, Cofagrigus has low HP. Also, why hasn't metang been added?

patience dude
the OP isn't here every day to update the list for you

on the topic of coffinderp, here's some things

firstly, on the competitive thing, most grass-type use leaf storm as their main move afaik, or giga drain which has much better utility: energy ball is pretty much non-existent after the power buff to giga drain in gen 5. shadow ball is used by most ghost-types because there is nothing else stronger available (seriously, ghost as an offensive type isn't very good at all, things like gengar use it because there's no other choice)

next, anyone who uses iron defense in gameplay should be given one tight smack: you want to kill your enemies as fast as possible, and buffing your defense is definitely not going to make that process faster (unless it's like, buffing for assist power which coffinderp doesn't have)

coffinderp doesn't really have many good matchups in the game: while they're not disadvantageous to him, he's not really say very stellar either. he can pull off the occasional burn on skyla/clay/drayden's stuff, energy ball marlon, and troll marshal, but that's really it imo: he's just average, and just happens to be useful, but not very. the time he takes to kill shit means its a very solid mid, but it's got some pretty nice support, and mummy is fun.

 

[Magcargo]

patience dude
the OP isn't here every day to update the list for you

on the topic of coffinderp, here's some things

firstly, on the competitive thing, most grass-type use leaf storm as their main move afaik, or giga drain which has much better utility: energy ball is pretty much non-existent after the power buff to giga drain in gen 5. shadow ball is used by most ghost-types because there is nothing else stronger available (seriously, ghost as an offensive type isn't very good at all, things like gengar use it because there's no other choice)

next, anyone who uses iron defense in gameplay should be given one tight smack: you want to kill your enemies as fast as possible, and buffing your defense is definitely not going to make that process faster (unless it's like, buffing for assist power which coffinderp doesn't have)

coffinderp doesn't really have many good matchups in the game: while they're not disadvantageous to him, he's not really say very stellar either. he can pull off the occasional burn on skyla/clay/drayden's stuff, energy ball marlon, and troll marshal, but that's really it imo: he's just average, and just happens to be useful, but not very. the time he takes to kill shit means its a very solid mid, but it's got some pretty nice support, and mummy is fun.

I nominated it for Mid and nobody seems to disagree.

 

[Lork]

a quick note on what i've found:

snivy should be low

elekid should be high - electivire is now my mvp by a distance with tpunch/tbolt/low kick/psychic, and it remains useful all the way until then, again with its good coverage.

roselia is powerful but i haven't been bowled over by mono-grass coverage. i would like sludge bomb - where can i get it? haven't come across shadow ball yet either but it's probably in that ghost house. mid on my experience.

flareon should be low (that is sad)

ducklett very much agree it is in mid

riolu likewise in high

axew should be mid. a boss in certain situations (against ghetsis i got off 2xDD and just swept) but a spectacular failure in others, if not high if you are better at not getting koed than me

piloswine should be mid if not high definitely. as soon as you catch it you can move tutor it ice fang (for stab) and ancient power then rare candy or level it up normally and you have a MACHINE! mamo then picks up stab EQ, with rock slide for exceptional coverage. it is a real, real boss, and i only say mid because it is so late.

 

[cant say]

I have to disagree with Snivy for low. Although he was a little disappointing to me at first, Coil saved him, and I didn't have anything competing with it for the 10 free red shards so it got Aqua Tail, which worked real nice with Coil. Return rounded off it's (shallow) coverage. I feel if I gave it Outrage instead it would have been better but I already had enough Dragon busters. Even though it only had 4 real usable moves in its learnset it still performed admirably (saved me against Marshal (Coil FTW)). I would have to say Mid at least

 

[CJorex]

I'm going to say Sneasel should be Low. Yes, weavile can pack a punch, but it too frail and needs Ice Punch for strong STAB. For me, he was good against Caitlin and Shauntal, but hopeless against Iris- I had intended for my Weavile to beat her Haxorus, but he was outsped and OHKO'd, leaving my Pinsir to do the job.
btw Pinsir for High, if not Top

 

[Celever]

I have to disagree with Snivy for low. Although he was a little disappointing to me at first, Coil saved him, and I didn't have anything competing with it for the 10 free red shards so it got Aqua Tail, which worked real nice with Coil. Return rounded off it's (shallow) coverage. I feel if I gave it Outrage instead it would have been better but I already had enough Dragon busters. Even though it only had 4 real usable moves in its learnset it still performed admirably (saved me against Marshal (Coil FTW)). I would have to say Mid at least

If Serperior is mid with a shallow movepool but because of coil, surely Dunsparce should be mid due to a vast movepool and coil, but a little bit worse stats?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Serperior has much better speed and better offenses/bulk to pull off coil sweeps. Dunsparce is too slow for coil sweeping. That hardly is 'a little worse', virtually the entire Unova is inside the speed gap between Serperior and Dunsparce.

 

[Lork]

I have to disagree with Snivy for low. Although he was a little disappointing to me at first, Coil saved him, and I didn't have anything competing with it for the 10 free red shards so it got Aqua Tail, which worked real nice with Coil. Return rounded off it's (shallow) coverage. I feel if I gave it Outrage instead it would have been better but I already had enough Dragon busters. Even though it only had 4 real usable moves in its learnset it still performed admirably (saved me against Marshal (Coil FTW)). I would have to say Mid at least

i just find it so tedious to use and i really like it as a pokemon stylistically. it's a shame. its coverage is apologetic (i dont want to have to wait 5 gyms for coverage and even then i went with ice punch for luke) and doesnt have the power off the bat to compensate.

i would always start with it though.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

What about this post I made earlier.

goddamnit

repeatedly
posting
your
fucking
analysis
is
not
going
to
speed
up
the
fucking
process

 

[JockeMS]

I'm sorry for the delay in this being updated, but it will be sometime tomorrow my time. A preliminary tier list and a summary of the recently proposed Pokémon for immediate tier placement will be included in that post.

Also, like TM13IceBeam above me already said, quoting your posts over and over again will not do anything and is completely unecessary. There's no need to worry, your post will not be ignored. If other members have anything to add or comment on, then they will.

Also, as I've said many, many times before, comparing two different Pokémon will not determine their placements. If both of the Pokémon are good for the same tier, but one of them is slightly better than the other, they will still be placed in the same tier. I saw this type of discussion happening again. I hope not to see it any more.

 

[Alice in Strings]

So I've been trying Audino...and it's actually pretty good. It's nothing super special, but it's far better than I would have originally thought, since it can actually hurt things and Attract is always nice to have.

 

[Antihaxxer]

I'm currently playing White 2 (I just get Waterfall HM from N before Victory Road) with Ampharos / Braviary / Roserade / Camerupt / Octillery / Gliscor.

Ampharos is better than mid tier for me but I can understand its flaws. Early Thunder Wave is amazing against Cheren. Mine had perfect IV in Attack + nature, so I give him Fire Punch (against all theses bugs / grass / steel type) and Discharge was still very powerful.

Fixed Braviary = I was really impressed for his strength. Frustration / Return gives him nice Normal STAB, Fly is a huge improvement in his moveset. Can also learn Cut / Strength if needed. Rock Slide, Superpower rounds the coverage. Too bad he learns Brave Bird / Trash so late. A Monster for a High Tier.

Roserade = High Tier, no problem for that. Fast / Petal Dance / Nice Special Bulk / Petal Dance / Ok coverage with Shadow Ball + Venom Shock//Toxic Spikes and Petal Dance

Camerupt = A bit disappointed. Powerful stab (Mine has Earthquake / Earth Power / Lava Plume / Rock Slide) but slow :( Mine didn't have Solid Rock so maybe his bulk would be better with that slowness ... Mid tier seems good (but can't help against gyms, but destroy all the team Plasma), but Ampharos is also in mid tier and I think Ampharos is far better.

Octillery = My biggest disappointment ... I love Remoraid and Octillery with his flawless movepool (seriously he can learn ANYTHING except Thunderbolt ?) but like Camerupt, ... pathetic speed and middle defenses are problematic. He OHKO almost everything, but takes hit every turn ... Low-Mid tier for me.

Gliscor = I must be lucky because mine was Adamant + Perfect IV in Speed and nice IV in Attack / Defense / HP. I evolve him fast by grinding 30 min in PWT (4 wins in Triple Tournament = Very fast BP for the Fang). Can also learn anything .... When you catch it, you can teach Dig / Aerial Ace / Rock Slide / Aqua Tail / X-Scissor / Night Slash / Thunder Fang / Fire Fang / Ice Fang / Sky Uppercut (lvl 45) ... It depends what do you need. I've currently Dig / Aerial Ace / NightSlash / Sky Uppercut, and he can do everything ! He came very late, but he's so powerful as a last member of your team. High tier for me (but mid tier is acceptable)

 

[JockeMS]

Ok, so I've been looking through what I've been said since last time and compiled another prelinary list. Wasn't much movement or many addition, but some. Remember that this is still far from the finalized thing. The premise is the same as it has always been:

Anything with less than 3 votes will be in italics (examples are Tynamo in the Low Tier column and Purrloin in the Bottom Tier column). This is because one vote from one member can hardly make up for deciding a Pokémon's placement. Anything in Bold has reached 3 or more votes, and is placed in its current place on the tier list.

I've also included all that I could include from the first thread. Also, Pokémon with equal votes for two different tiers will be in a temporary Limbo placement (for example, a Pokémon with two votes for High and two votes for Mid will be placed in Limbo 2).

This is how things look now (previous list can be found here):

Top Tier

Darumaka

Drilbur

Heracross [Black 2]

Magnemite

Minccino

Limbo 1

...

High Tier

Axew

Azurill

Braviary (Route 4 stationary) [White 2]

Eevee - Espeon

Elekid (No trade) [White 2]

Frillish

Eevee - Jolteon

Litwick

Oshawott

Petilil

Pinsir [White 2]

Riolu

Roselia

Sandile

Scraggy

Sigilyph

Staryu

Tepig

Zorua

Limbo 2

Pidove

Eevee - Vaporeon

Middle Tier

Aron

Buizel

Cubchoo

Deerling

Ducklett

Dwebble

Gigalith

Gligar

Growlithe

Joltik

Klink

Koffing

Magby (No trade) [Black 2]

Mandibuzz (Route 4 stationary) [Black 2]

Mareep

Numel [White 2]

Onix (With trade)

Pawniard

Pelipper

Piloswine

Psyduck

Sawk

Sewaddle

Skarmory

Snivy

Solosis [White 2]

Solrock

Spheal

Tangela

Timburr (No trade)

Trapinch

Volcarona

Zangoose

Zubat

Limbo 3

Drifblim

Gothita [Black 2]

Venipede

Low Tier

Bouffalant

Buneary [Black 2]

Clefairy

Druddigon

Elgyem

Eevee - Flareon

Golurk

Lapras

Patrat

Remoraid

Roggenrola (No trade)

Rufflet [White 2]

Sandshrew

Seviper

Skorupi

Sneasel

Throh

Trubbish

Tynamo

Yamask

Zweilous

Limbo 4

Sunkern

Bottom Tier

Alomomola

Castform

Corsola

Delibird

Ditto

Dunsparce

Karrablast (No trade)

Purrloin

Shelmet (No trade)

Shuckle

Skitty [White 2]

Vanillish

Vullaby [Black 2]

Here's a list of the tier changes:

Hide

Gligar up to Middle Tier from Limbo 3
Piloswine down to Middle Tier from Limbo 2

And here's the list of all new additions:

Hide

Braviary to High Tier
Cubchoo to Middle Tier
Numel to Middle Tier
Onix (with trade) to Middle Tier
Pawniard to Middle Tier
Remoraid to Low Tier
Sneasel to Low Tier

Also, here are all the Pokémon that are left. These lack any suggestion for a tier placement (or none that I can properly place from):

Hide

Lillipup
Audino
Rattata
Magby (With trade)
Elekid (With trade)
Grimer
Woobat
Roggenrola (With trade) *Can be bundled with the traded Gigalith in-game*
Timburr (With trade)
Onix (No trade)
Cottonee
Eevee - Umbreon
Maractus
Emolga
Combee
Pansear
Panpour
Pansage
Shelmet (With trade)
Foongus
Karrablast (With trade)
Ferroseed
Nosepass
Basculin
Zebstrika
Spoink [Black Version 2]
Banette
Seel
Swablu
Mienfoo
Absol
Lunatone

And for the Pokémon I proposed for immediate tiering placement in this post, here's what seem to be the general consensus:

Seel for Middle Tier
Swablu for Low Tier
Spoink for Low Tier

As Numel, Remoraid, and Cubchoo received, with lack of a better term atm, "votes" for their placements during this process, they will not be up for an immediate tiering placement any longer.

I'm going to leave these three Pokémon (Seel, Swablu, and Spoink) open for discussion for about 1-2 more days, then I'm going to place them in the appropriate tier, respectively.

And lastly I wanna quote and stress this point once again, just to get the message out there:

First of all, we do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on another Pokémon's ability. It doesn't matter if Pokémon X does the same thing better than Pokémon Y; if both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such. This as been said before, both by me, Stellar, and Mekkah.

Now, back to discussion.

 

[Antihaxxer]

Agree for Spoink & Swablu in Low tiers. Seel ... I don't know.

When I see the new mid tier, I Think Mareep is one of the best of them ... So should he move to High ?

 

[slowking]

I'm going to nominate Mienfoo for High.

Availability - Route 14 (Before Gym 7)
Stats - Great Attack, Good Speed, Good Special Attack (as Mienshao); Pathetic Defences
Movepool - Mienfoo doesn't have a very big movepool, but it learns everything it needs to. An endgame moveset of Fake Out / U-turn / Stone Edge or Acrobatics / HJK is all it needs. At the time you get Mienfoo, it'll already have Fake Out and Jump Kick. U-turn will be learned within 2-3 levels.
Major Battles -
Drayden: No specific type advantage/disadvantage, but as a Mienfoo its probably still not strong enough to accomplish much here.
Zinzolin: Fighting > Ice. Lol.
Shadow Triad: Fighting > Pawniard. Done. Watch out for Banette I guess.
Marlon: Mienfoo should have evolved into Mienshao by now. It can handle Carracosta no problem, Wailord should be just as easy what with its frailty. Don't use it against Jellicent.
Colress: The Magnets and Klinklang become jokes. You can U-turn out on Beheeyem too to do some significant damage as well as gain some regenerated HP.
Kyurem: ...It's quite anti-climatic to see the game's mascot being trashed by Mienshao.
Shauntal: I wouldn't use Mienshao here. Stone Edge falls short of OHKOing Drifblim and Chandelure, and they have Psychic sooooo...
Grimsley: HJK.
Caitlin: Switching in Mienshao to abuse Fake Out + U-turn is actually a decent combo for Caitlin. This way, you can abuse Regenerator and might KO something along the process too.
Marshal: You can consider replacing Acrobatics over Stone Edge here (remember to remove your item). This way, it can OHKO the opposing Mienshao, and 2HKO everything else. I wouldn't recommend using Mienshao to face Conkeldurr though.
Iris: Hydreigon, Aggron and Lapras should all be out-sped and can be taken down quite easily. Approach the others with caution as you probably won't be OHKOing them, whereas they will OHKO you.
Additional Comments: Get Regenerator Mienfoo. If it wasn't for it's late availability and frailty Mienfoo would definitely be a contender for Top-tier. Nevertheless, it's still a great Pokemon; Fighting is a great type in BW2, and the combination of Fake Out, U-Turn and Regenerator means that Mienfoo won't be dead weight even in disadvantageous match-ups.

 

[Celever]

I really want Altaria to get into mid but... I'm just not feeling it... it's sad. It's just too damn late! :( So yeah, low for swablu.
Seel has but one niche, dive by level up, but I think that should place it into low. It is nothing special in terms of anything else, and if you need a water/ice then I would go with selaeo over dewgong anyway.
Yeah, spoink for low.

Also can I just say how pleased I am to have gotten numel into mid? :)
Also spoink is still on the list for "no proposed tier placement".
Also (x3) can I reserve the write-up for grimer?

 

[TM13IceBeam]

how is dive by level up anything important when it's obviously outclassed by waterfall and surf? even if we are going there, wailmer learns dive too by level.

seel is ok imo, having STAB blizzard is never a bad thing in this game, but honestly it's nothing special. it's true that walrein is strictly superior (honestly 5 base speed isn't that big ingame, while walrein has slightly better stats everywhere else. the only thing walrein doesn't get is signal beam), but if both are able to murder the same guys with stab blizzard/surf anyway they're pretty much interchangeable. really boring, since it, walrein and lapras are basically the same thing imo: random derps with stab surf and ib/blizzard and rapez dragons. dewgong might win a bit for having signal beam for caitlin, but it's not really that big and chances are you'll die to focus blast/thunderbolt first anyway.

i really have no idea what seel is good at, but if one thing is for sure, it's that it and walrein are basically clones of each other, one has better bulk, the other has signal beam. both should be in the same tier, although seel goes best in low (and spheal should go there too, imho, although it's really a toss-up).

spoink and swablu are low, no doubt about it. don't really do much aside from just being there, but not exactly useless. they're just... there.

after thinking through some things, i'm proposing something: move lapras to mid. lapras obviously steams through drayden like a boss, but with water absorb, rain dance, hydro pump and thunder, lapras does the same to marlon as well rather effectively, once you get rid of carracosta. not so hot for E4, but still has boltbeam so it's useful.

honestly, i feel that there's something wrong when lapras, with a superior movepool and stats than walrein, is a tier lower than him. either lapras needs to move up, walrein needs to get down, or both.

 

[Magcargo]

Umbreon: Bottom
Availability: Early, but has a 5% encounter rate. Also, it takes a while to evolve because it requires happiness.
Stats: Has great defenses, but low attacking stats make it pretty useless against most pokemon.
Typing: Dark gives it a weakness to fighting and bug, while offering resistences to ghost and dark as well as an immunity to pyschic.
Movepool: Umbreon has a shallow movepool, consisting of only ghost, dark and normal moves.
Major Battles:
Burgh: Weakness to bug means that it isn't going to go far.
Elesa: Really, umbreon can't do anything to her pokemon with that pathetic base 65 attack.
Clay: Same as Elesa, except Clays pokemon are bulkier, so umbreon will have a harder time.
Skyla: Those low attacking stats make umbreon do poor against skyla.
Drayden: Like all the other gym, except haxorus can setup a swords dance and take umbreon out with x-scissors.
Marlon: Umbreon only does good against Jellicent, while his carracoasta can setup a shell smash and laugh at umbreon's weak attacks.
Marshal: Umbreon cannot do a single thing to his pokemon, while his pokemon can hit umbreon super effectively.
Catlin: Eats most of her team alive. Umbreon is immune to psychic and has a super effective assurance, but watch out for focus miss.
Grimsley: Umbreon cannot do much to his pokemon and they can hit relitively hard with their coverage moves, especially scrafty.
Shauntal: Umbreon has a super effective assurance, but that will rarely OHKO Shauntel's pokemon because of Umbreon's low attack. Golurk will do a massive amount of damage with brick break.
Iris: Umbreon cannot do anything to her pokemon because their high defenses. Umbreon's assurance will do pathetic damage because all her pokemon aren't hit for super effective damage.
AC: Umbreon is a horrible pokemon to use in-game. If you get an eevee, evolve it into something else.

 

[Alice in Strings]

The test continues with Yamask, and he's surprisingly a very good counter to Elesa's entire team. Her Zebstrika is entirely physical, and it has the defenses to laugh at her hits while striking back with 100BP Hex. Even Challenge Mode Joltik's Energy Ball does laughable damage.

EDIT: Watchog is still dominating as a physical monster. His new Seed Bomb is helping him trash Clay's Gym, but STAB Return is just blowing away the compitition. Solid Mid so far.

Woobat sucks, even with Unaware. It really got hurt by the level boost, making its evolution even further away than it was in B/W. Low tier for sure.

Dwebble is also having troubles against things I really want it to kill i.e Flying types and Grass types. I recommend waiting for the Crustle you get from an event, but even then...

 

[Magcargo]

how is dive by level up anything important when it's obviously outclassed by waterfall and surf? even if we are going there, wailmer learns dive too by level.

seel is ok imo, having STAB blizzard is never a bad thing in this game, but honestly it's nothing special. it's true that walrein is strictly superior (honestly 5 base speed isn't that big ingame, while walrein has slightly better stats everywhere else. the only thing walrein doesn't get is signal beam), but if both are able to murder the same guys with stab blizzard/surf anyway they're pretty much interchangeable. really boring, since it, walrein and lapras are basically the same thing imo: random derps with stab surf and ib/blizzard and rapez dragons. dewgong might win a bit for having signal beam for caitlin, but it's not really that big and chances are you'll die to focus blast/thunderbolt first anyway.

i really have no idea what seel is good at, but if one thing is for sure, it's that it and walrein are basically clones of each other, one has better bulk, the other has signal beam. both should be in the same tier, although seel goes best in low (and spheal should go there too, imho, although it's really a toss-up).

spoink and swablu are low, no doubt about it. don't really do much aside from just being there, but not exactly useless. they're just... there.

after thinking through some things, i'm proposing something: move lapras to mid. lapras obviously steams through drayden like a boss, but with water absorb, rain dance, hydro pump and thunder, lapras does the same to marlon as well rather effectively, once you get rid of carracosta. not so hot for E4, but still has boltbeam so it's useful.

honestly, i feel that there's something wrong when lapras, with a superior movepool and stats than walrein, is a tier lower than him. either lapras needs to move up, walrein needs to get down, or both.

I agree with lapras moving up. Lapras does better against Iris, has better stats across the board (except in Special attack and speed) and has a better movepool. It is also more powerful when you capture it because walrien has to evolve from a spheal. And finally, lapras is avalible every season, while walrien is avalible only one.

 

[Alice in Strings]

I agree with lapras moving up. Lapras does better against Iris, has better stats across the board (except in Special attack and speed) and has a better movepool. It is also more powerful when you capture it because walrien has to evolve from a spheal. And finally, lapras is avalible every season, while walrien is avalible only one.

There's nothing stopping you from time traveling to Winter to get your Spheal.

 

[Satisfaction]

They all have a better level up moveset than Lucario, I'm not sure why it's considered high while perfectly varied pokemon like Leavanny arent listed at all. I'd reccomend Sewaddle for mid tier as it can be caught as early as floccessy town and evolve to its final stage by elesa. Sadly its not too helpful against any of the gyms until Clay and also fails at beating Skyla or Drayden so at most it has two gyms it can be useful for, still being a strong and fast bug type it provides an advantage for Grimsley and Caitlin, and it has the added benefit of being able to take down Iris' lapras. Swords dance by level up makes it one of the few viable boosters in the game and combined with its speed it should be able to do quite a bit of damage before going down. If you want you can even give it a sleeping move in grasswhistle.

 

[JockeMS]

So, I have now placed Seel, Swablu, and Spoink in their respective tiers. They were as follows:

Seel to Low Tier
Swablu to Low Tier
Spoink to Low Tier

On the subject of Spheal and Lapras, the only solution I'm willing to go through with is moving Spheal down. Rarity plays a big part in the placements as well, and Lapras is far too rare and tedious to catch for it to be Middle Tier. Lapras will stay where it is right now unless I get two or more posts stating it should be Middle. And I mean post from users who have actually used Lapras, and of good quality. I don't want just a short sentence saying "Lapras is good. Mid tier." So far, all I've gotten is one good post saying it should be Low, hence its placement.

However, I'm still unwilling to do anything with Spheal. The reason Spheal is Middle tier on that list is because a user suggested as such. Ignoring his/her post like that and just put it in Low doesn't seem fair to me, as this is a community project and everyone's opinions presented in a good way need to be accounted for.

So, I will hold on from doing anything with these two for now. However, if you have actual experience with these two, go ahead and post about it. They will be accounted for the next time I put together a new preliminary tier list, and maybe it will change their placements.

Also, I have to throw this in once again:

First of all, we do not decide the tiering of one Pokémon based on another Pokémon's ability. It doesn't matter if Pokémon X does the same thing better than Pokémon Y; if both are good enough for the same tier, they will be placed as such. This as been said before, both by me, Stellar, and Mekkah.

Why is this so hard to understand? I've been telling you this countless of times now, but you still do these comparisons. Please stop, as no posts containing these comparisons will be accounted for. This is the last time I will tell you this; I will put this in the OP though.

They all have a better level up moveset than Lucario, I'm not sure why it's considered high while perfectly varied pokemon like Leavanny arent listed at all. I'd reccomend Sewaddle for mid tier as it can be caught as early as floccessy town and evolve to its final stage by elesa. Sadly its not too helpful against any of the gyms until Clay and also fails at beating Skyla or Drayden so at most it has two gyms it can be useful for, still being a strong and fast bug type it provides an advantage for Grimsley and Caitlin, and it has the added benefit of being able to take down Iris' lapras. Swords dance by level up makes it one of the few viable boosters in the game and combined with its speed it should be able to do quite a bit of damage before going down. If you want you can even give it a sleeping move in grasswhistle.

First of all, Riolu's placement on this tier list is perfectly reasonable and is agreed by basically the whole community participating in this process.

Second, at this very moment, Sewaddle does reside in the Middle tier, however, it is only preliminary. The reason it's not in the OP is because it doesn't have enough "sayings" about it. The minimum we go by is three, while Sewaddle only has two, both for Middle. However, next time I make a new preliminary tier list, your post will be taken into account and will make it so Sewaddle will appear in the Middle tier list in the OP.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for new Pokémon being put up for immediate tiering placements, these Pokémon will be put up for discussion this time:

Hide

Audino for Bottom or Low Tier

Onix (No trade) for Bottom or Low Tier

Cottonee for Low Tier

Emolga for Low or Middle Tier

Combee for Low or Bottom Tier

These five Pokémon are also the last ones I will put up immediate placement, as I feel the Pokémon that are left needs to be actually used. However, if time goes by and no one posts about them, I will look through the remaining Pokémon again.

Of course you are welcome to post if you have used these five Pokémon. Doing so will make them irrelvant for immediate tiering placement, and that is prefered.

And as a final note, this is the updated list of all Pokémon left to be discussed (including the five above):

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Lillipup
Audino
Rattata
Magby (With trade)
Elekid (With trade)
Grimer
Roggenrola (With trade) *Can be bundled with the traded Gigalith in-game*
Timburr (With trade)
Onix (No trade)
Cottonee
Maractus
Emolga
Combee
Pansear
Panpour
Pansage
Shelmet (With trade)
Foongus
Karrablast (With trade)
Ferroseed
Nosepass
Basculin
Zebstrika
Banette
Absol
Lunatone

If you have used any of these Pokémon in your playthrough, please step forward and tell us your experience with them. It will be greatly appreciated.