Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

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Aurorus also has Thunder and Reflect. It's capable of beating Skarmory, especially when your best Steel-type attack is Steel Wing. Skarmory also cannot hit Klefki for neutral either.
You outspeed Aurorus, so it will not have the turn needed to Thunder or Reflect. I'd say a 4x effective 70BP STAB move from an attack stat greater than the foe's defense should OHKO.

Don't forget Hidden Power, which has an almost 50% chance of being a neutral or better hit against Klefki. You can also use Roost to recover HP, while his klefki lacks HP restoration.
So, I decided to do a quick calculation for Steel Wing on Skarmory vs. Aurorus.
At 252 Atk. EVs, Skarmory will even struggle to OHKO it, because it only requires 104 Def. EVs with 252 HP EVs to be unable to OHKO without a critical hit. Even without any EVs, with no EV investment in Attack, you'll only OHKO once every eight times.
At no Atk. EVs, it can never OHKO without critical.
Skarmory's 40 Sp. Atk. makes it nearly worthless for anything, requiting 10 attacks of it to KO Klefki.
A Hyper Beam can OHKO Skarmory thanks to Refrigerate turning it into an Ice type attack.
Those are just a few calculations I tried. Perhaps I'll see some more later on...


A distant memory
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"Scyther only beats less than four Pokémon from the moment you get it! It should be F-Tier!"

Skarmory is not going into F-Tier. You have also got to remember the Victory Road Trainers as well, which Skarmory can beat quite a few of.
Since I saw Bagon untiered, I would like to speak about it...

Availability: Route ? Before Ambrette Town but it's rare. Evolves late @ LV. 50.

Stats: 95/135/80/110/80/100
Great mixed attacker. (I wish it has a MegaEvo form)

Movepool: A lot: Dragon claw, Fly, elemental fangs via Heart Scale, crunch, EQ, Rock Slide, Flamethrower, etc.

Type Matchup: Struggles against Valerie, Wulfric, Grant's tyrunt, drasna, Wilkstrom, and Mega Gardevoir to an extent.

Overall: I'm thinking mid A/B rank. Not as good as the past but still great.

First post says that we aren't tiering Torchic, so not sure how useful that post is going to be...
Including the fact that this Event is available for a limited time. As of my post, Blazikenite is no longer available. So I agree with Torchic untiered.
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Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Since I saw Bagon untiered, I would like to speak about it...

Overall: I'm thinking mid A/B rank. Not as good as the past but still great.
Way too high. It's available early, but this hampers its movepool greatly. It doesn't get its best moves until much later, meaning you're stuck with a Pokemon relying on no STAB and average bulk (plus poor Special Defense). Heck, it gets its first STAB move after its evolution level...which is Dragon Breath. Yay.

Bagon won't really hold up against any of the major fights before it evolves. When it finally does evolve, it fares well against Ramos and Clemont, only to get a rude wake-up call later from Valerie and Wulfric. It needs a good level advantage if it wants to fare well against the Elite 4 too since fast shit like Starmie, Noivern, Pyroar and Talonflame reside, and then there's also bulky dudes like Gyarados, Barbaracle, Aegislash, and Torkoal that can easily survive Salamence's blows. Unless you have, like, the perfect moveset for Salamence, it struggles in major battles. It doesn't get Dragon Dance like Haxorus to sweep shit, after all, and Hax is B Rank. Salamence for C Rank seems realistic.
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Way too high. It's available early, but this hampers its movepool greatly. It doesn't get its best moves until much later, meaning you're stuck with a Pokemon relying on no STAB and average bulk (plus poor Special Defense). Heck, it gets its first STAB move after its evolution level...which is Dragon Breath. Yay.

Bagon won't really hold up against any of the major fights before it evolves. When it finally does evolve, it fares well against Ramos and Clemont, only to get a rude wake-up call later from Valerie and Wulfric. It needs a good level advantage if it wants to fare well against the Elite 4 too since fast shit like Starmie, Noivern, Pyroar and Talonflame reside, and then there's also bulky dudes like Gyarados, Barbaracle, Aegislash, and Torkoal that can easily survive Salamence's blows. Unless you have, like, the perfect moveset for Salamence, it struggles in major battles. It doesn't get Dragon Dance like Haxorus to sweep shit, after all, and Hax is B Rank. Salamence for C Rank seems realistic.
Thank you very much for the output. I did not pay attention to the earlier stages and Bagon doesn't get good moves until around Lv. 50. I'm not good at tiering, so C Rank is reasonable.

I think it's my fault for saying A/B rank because I have used it on Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and X and took the patience to raise a Lv. 35 in Meteor Falls and Lv. 8 in Route 7? to become a beastly dragon. My tiering is biased.

I also see Mareep untiered, I was wondering if it's okay to share my thoughts.

Availability: Route 12 Horde Encounter. That's before the fourth Gym and around Lv. 13 so it needs more grinding. Also, there's a mega stone for Amphy in Azure Bay.
Stats if fully evolved: 90/75/85/115/90/55 (Mega Evo 90/95/105/165/110/45)
Typing: Electric, Electric/Dragon. Good against Siebold. Struggles against Ramos, Clemont, Valerie, Wulfric, Drasna, Wilkstrom, Mega Gardevoir (to an extent; if you carry the right move, the listed Leaders won't be a problem). I'm just listing all that applies to regular and mega form.
Movepool: very large. TBolt, Dragon Pulse (Lv 65, which is on par with some of Dinatha's Pokémons), Power Gem, Signal Beam, Cotton Guard, and many more.

Overall, I feel that C/D rank would be my answer. Slow and powerful but fares worse against major characters.
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Gift on Route 12 / Wild encounter on Route 12.

Available just after 3rd gym at a competitive level either (~25 in the water, or 30 as a gift).

130HP/ 85Atk/ 80Def/ 85SpA/ 95SpD/ 60Sp

HP! Wow. It was unfortunate that a few things work against Lapras throughout the game such as gym fights, availability of TM’s etc (will touch on that below) as it is more than able to take a few hits. Looking at its stats now (for the first time) I am actually not surprised to see its Atk/SpA being comparable however, I personally believe that it would be a more effective water-type if it favoured one or the other. Often when there was not a type-bonus to be had, I do recall battles going on for slightly longer than you would want.


Dual typing is a positive for Lapras as it allows for access to ice-based moves (as opposed to grass-ice which has ~7 weaknesses) however, does increase resistances from pure water (2) to four. Coupled with it’s high HP, some of this vulnerabilities can be more…tolerable – especially when relying on Lapras to fill a gap (see move pool).

Move pool
Lapras has level-up move pool is diverse and useful – so long as you choose to stay within its natural category of water/ice. Overall, some unfortunate timing really detracts from its level-up move pool, of particular mention include:

I felt this was a limitation in some of the proceeding gym battles especially during Ramos. The gift Lapras did not come with Ice chard which would have been useful (as it is given STAB). Use of Lapras here was as a last resort or so that I could heal another Pokémon. If you have used Lapras he does learn ice beam which is nice.

Clemont – electricity is certainly not something Lapras (even with high HP) can withstand for long. 2nd consecutive gym that Lapras at a disadvantage in.

Of the remaining gyms, I cannot recall any other disadvantages against Lapras. Using TM’s along the way can really add to Lapras durability, of notable mention: thunderbolt, substitute and blizzard (STAB). Thunderbolt and ice beam/blizzard make Lapras great pics against the likes of Drasna and Siebold, substitute (in-game) can also help avoid some damage here and there.

In my first run through, Lapras actually came to the rescue during the E4, however, had I been more planned about balancing a proper team at the time I would likely not have gone with it.

Major Battles

Felt it appropriate to cover off above, however, some of its strong points:

Olympia: thunderbolt is a positive against Sigilyph and Slowking (2/3 of her total).
Wulfric: Rock Smash, if you get it around Ambrette Town, this will come in handy as a type advantage.

Elite 4:
Siebold: Barbaracle/ Garados / Starmie / Clawitzer (Lapras with rock smash and thunderbolt can be formidable across these four)

Malva: Brine works well, ice beam against Talon flame.

Drasna: Ice moves have x4 across half of her line up.

Wilstrom: no real type advantage to be had, however can be a good wall/tank.


Lapras is a Pokémon in X and Y that you have to be patient with if you want to keep it with you for the whole run, either keep it in storage until TM access increases or persevere and use it strategically.

HP is a massive plus, however its similar Atk/SpA can be frustrating as you will lean more to SpA moves with STAB.Lapras may not be a first-choice or top shelf Pokémon in XY however, if you make full use of its TM compatibility and plan ahead it is certainly more useful than normal.


Slowpoke (Slowking)
C-tier (without HA – Regenerator)
Limbo B/C-Tier (With HA - Regenerator)


Route 12 (Single & Horde - HA)

Slowpoke is available after the 3rd gym and with its HA “Regenerator” if you have the patience to sift through slowpoke yawn-hordes with a trace-like ability.

Regenerator Slowpoke is somewhat less available than the standard type, however it makes a great improvement.


Slowpoke: 90HP/ 65Atk/ 65Def/ 40SpA/ 40SpD/ 15Sp (315)
Slowking: 95HP/ 75Atk/ 80Def/ 100SpA/ 110SpD/ 30Sp (490)

This Pokémon in its base-form is fairly average in battle, it is not something that will make your team line-up, it doesn’t really stand out too much.

When evolved in to Slowking, the increase in SpA is much welcomed and really packs a punch -- particularly those with STAB (psychic, scald, etc)

In my run-through, I stuck with Slowpoke until I could get it around level 32, at this point I felt it was starting to fall behind so I evolved it pretty much as soon as I could get a Kings Rock. Upon evolving, I noticed a massive difference in its SpA


For a Pokémon with access to both water and psychic I often forgot how many type-weaknesses SlowP/K actually has (Bug/Ghost/Grass/Electric/Dark) which can make it quite perilous in a number of the mid-late battles. In order to work-around these weaknesses I would strongly recommend obtaining a regenerator slowpoke, keep it front up in your party UNLESS you know you are going against a type weakness. Should your opponent throw out something you can’t handle if you take a hit and recall – you regain a third of your health.

Move pool

Slowking’s native move-pool is not too bad however I personally found its TM options, many of which, come with STAB, is what really defines its move pool (even surf).

By the time I got to the E4 I was using nasty plot / flame thrower / psychic (psyshock) / scald. These made Slowking more versatile, and also when combined with nasty plot, pack quite a punch.

Of Slowking’s move pool, it certainly leans towards more psychic/non-water moves.

Major Battles

From mid-late, gym battles can be quite risky. Most type-effective issues can be predicted by the gym type; however, there are also a few places you can get caught out.

The following include gyms where Slowking was at the bottom of my list, and also where there are some unexpected surprises

Clemont (electricity),

Ramos (grass),

Olympia (meowstic w/ Shadow ball)

Wulfric (Abomasnow – energy ball, Avalugg – crunch)

Wilstrom (Scizor – Night slash, Aegislash – Shadow claw)

Malva (Chandelure – Shadow ball)

However, for a lot of these weaknesses, SlowP/K can be improved due to its move pool – for example, the bottom three battles (all E4) SlowP/K can hold its weight with moves such as flame thrower, scald, nasty plot (if used properly and with an element of luck).


Regenerator on SlowP/K is for me, a make or break – playing with regenerator certainly makes it more durable and when you are talking level 60 it has quite a high HP, so recovering a third just for switching it out of battle is extremely helpful. Without regenerator, you would rely on potions much more often and given slowpokes wide exposure to weaknesses certainly impacts its viability.

Ultimately, Slowking has a number of weaknesses and although they can be moderated (namely it’s HA) I still found it was something that you would pay for if you weren’t vigilant for unexpected moves.
MikeAU said:
Regenerator on SlowP/K is for me, a make or break – playing with regenerator certainly makes it more durable and when you are talking level 60 it has quite a high HP, so recovering a third just for switching it out of battle is extremely helpful. Without regenerator, you would rely on potions much more often and given slowpokes wide exposure to weaknesses certainly impacts its viability.

Ultimately, Slowking has a number of weaknesses and although they can be moderated (namely it’s HA) I still found it was something that you would pay for if you weren’t vigilant for unexpected moves.
I think you're putting too much importance on the usefulness of Regenerator: firstly, catching a Slowpoke from a horde means ~10 levels of extra grinding that doesn't progress the story (since we're assuming no Exp Share) to catch up and secondly, Own Tempo allows you avoid all those Supersonics and Confuse Rays from things that outspeed you. And given a base 30 speed stat and you're basically taking a hit in every battle, which seems like a huge disadvantage given the level and evolution curve of trainers and a big weakness to Team Flare's most common STAB.

Having not used it, I can only compare with Tentacool that comes at the same time: Poison STAB is useful against Ramos and Valerie, it can be useful against all the E4, gets Toxic Spikes to help in longer fights plus Sludge Wave/Surf/Dazzling Gleam can SE all of Diantha's team except Gourgeist and 100 base Speed means you pretty much always hit first -- a massive boon. On paper, Slowking (and Slowbro I guess too) seem more D-tier than C imo, especially if their HA is as crucial to their performance as you say.


A distant memory
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Yeah if I was catching a Slowpoke, I would just go for Own Tempo or something over Regenerator; it is far easier to obtain, & the ability to avoid confusion—which is rather omnipresent—is a very useful ability to have. I just do not see the worth in going through all the trouble to get one with Regenerator.

Anyhow, I am just going to propose a bunch of mons for instant tiering:

Absol: N/A -> C-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Plant): N/A -> E-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Sand): N/A -> E-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Trash): N/A -> E-Tier
Caterpie: N/A -> C-Tier
Clauncher (X): N/A -> D-Tier
Combee: N/A -> E-Tier
Flabébé: N/A -> D-Tier
Goomy: N/A -> D-Tier
Lapras: N/A -> C-Tier
Noibat: N/A -> D-Tier
Pikachu: N/A -> C-Tier
Sableye: N/A -> D-Tier
Sandile: N/A -> C-Tier
Xerneas: N/A -> B-Tier
Yveltal: N/A -> B-Tier

Just 16 entries, but I kinda need to get this up & running again after being so busy of late... >_>

Also I might open up to actual write-ups for the tier list before long, so watch that space or something.

I will probably also resolve all the limbo mons when I update next.

EDIT: RE Below: There is a list in the OP indicating what has not been tiered. Though if that is not good enough...
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Robot from the Future
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Orange Islands
Yeah if I was catching a Slowpoke, I would just go for Own Tempo or something over Regenerator; it is far easier to obtain, & the ability to avoid confusion—which is rather omnipresent—is a very useful ability to have. I just do not see the worth in going through all the trouble to get one with Regenerator.
True that, but you technically do save some money on healing items with regenerator, and it could potentially win some matches with some clever switching if you didnt have any potions/moo moo milks for whatever reason.

Might be worth posting a list here of whats left to tier so everyone can see JUST whats left :) Then we can give views/opinions on those and really get this thing started.

Also: I would agree with Sandile in C, it isnt actually all that great later on. EQ is good but fairly late (Lv 50 or so iirc) and up until then you have to make do with Dig as STAB. Moxie is not as good as Intimidate because matches generally only last like 2 mons :( Krook usually doesnt even need the +1 boost to attack to do some serious damage to opponents. Mine still has Rock Tomb from Gym 2...


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Gengar (Haunter w/trade)


Route 14 (late-mid): You can catch Haunter a little after you beat Clemont, and a little before you fight Valerie. The second you catch Haunter, you can trade to evolve him into Gengar. Within Laverre City, you can receive the Gengarite, which can make up for being caught at a somewhat low level.


Gengar is a Ghost/Poison type, giving him an advantage against quite a few opponents through STABs alone. The dual coverage of Poison and Ghost is surprisingly excellent, being resisted by a few Pokemon in the game, whom are taken care of by coverage moves.


Gengar: 60 / 65 / 60 / 130 / 75 / 110

Mega Gengar: 60 / 65 / 80 / 170 / 95 / 130

Gengar, Mega or otherwise, is built with special sweeping in mind and nothing else. He's rather frail if you don't Mega Evolve, but he can live a hit well enough either way. His blazing speed mean he's almost always going to outrun his opponents, and his excellent special attack means he can easily dish out the pain. Overall, excellent stats.


Fairly wide: You can teach Gengar Venoshock as a decent STAB to start off with, as well as Thunderbolt for coverage, and he'll learn Shadow Ball a few levels after you catch him. You can also buy Focus Blast at Anistar City and teach him that if you don't mind the risk of missing frequently. At Route 19, you can find Sludge Bomb, which is pretty much Gengar's strongest attack, though that's very late in the game. In Route 20, you can find Energy Ball, though it's not very helpful at that point in the game. If you think you only need three moves on Gengar, you can teach him Strength if you really need it on the spot.

Major Battles:

Valerie: A relatively clean sweep throughout the whole gym. Just watch out for Mawile, who is immune to Poison, and Mr.Mime and Kirlia, who can hit you with a super-effective attack. Other than those three, spamming Venoshock means you're golden.

Olympia: It's kill or be killed here. On one hand, your Shadow Ball can make mince meat out of most things in this gym, but at the same time, one Psychic-type move could be all it takes to crush you. On that note, Olympia's Slowking can likely live a Shadow Ball, even from Mega Gengar, and proceed to either use Psychic or Calm Mind. Meowstic is destroyed, but Sigilyph is a shaky KO, especially since she will either use Psychic to smash Gengar or Light Screen to basically make him near deadweight.

Team Flare: Not too much to talk about. If they don't have a Dark-type on their team, Mega Gengar doesn't really complain, and even if they do, he can throw Focus Blasts in their faces.

Lysandre(All): With Thunderbolt, Gyarados and Honchkrow/Murkrow are child's play, Focus Blast destroys Pyroar, and Mienshao/Mienfoo is generally not a big problem. Though Mega Gyarados can likely live a Thunderbolt, but likely will fall to Focus Blast, and without Focus Blast, Pyroar can be a bit problematic with Dark Pulse and having a Ghost immunity.

Wulfric: No particular disadvantage. With Focus Blast, you basically clean house, and Sludge Bomb can hit Abomasnow hard. Without Focus Blast, it's a so-so time for Gengar. The worst that can happen is Avalugg using Crunch, but that's really all he can threaten you with.

All Rival Battles: Gengar can vaporize Meowstic and Delphox with Shadow Ball, smash Greninja and Vaporeon with Thunderbolt, trash Absol with Focus Blast, and destroy Chesnaught with Sudge Bomb. Altaria, Jolteon, and Flareon aren't particularly threatening. I guess Flareon can hit you with Bite, and Altaria can use Confide to lower your special attack, but that's really not too much of an issue.

Wikstrom: Klefki and Probopass aren't that big of a deal; you can take care of them fairly easily. Scizor and Aegislash, however, are bad matchups, since they can live a hit and nail you with a super-effective attack.

Malva: Chandelure is destroyed by Shadow Ball, Talonflame by Thunderbolt, and Pyroar by Focus Blast. Torkoal isn't particularly threatening, and should be a 2HKO with Mega Gengar's Sludge Bomb at worst, though as Mega Gengar, Earthquake will be able to hit you.

Drasna: No particular match up, it goes either way. You hit everything for neutral damage at most, and the same thing vice-versa.

Siebold: Everything is killed off by either STAB, Energy Ball, or Thunderbolt. An absolute cake walk. Just don't let Starmie set up Light Screen, and you're good.

Diantha: You can hit 5 of her Pokemon super-effectively, with only Goodra being neutral at best. Aurorus can set up Light Screen, Tyrantrum can smash you with Crunch or Earthquake as Mega Gengar, Gourgeist can use Shadow Sneak, and Mega Gardevoir will most likely live a Sludge Bomb and KO back with Psychic, but other than that, a pretty easy battle. Just switch out against Gardevoir and maybe Goodra.

AZ: The most fearful thing here is Sigilyph hitting you with Psychic and Golurk with Phantom Force. Other than that, this fight's pretty easy.

Comments: Gengar's got a rough start, being at a low-ish level upon capture and not being available till you get your 5th badge, but the long-run is pretty good, I'd say. He's still a great Pokemon to use in game, but if not for these flaws, Gengar would have been an excellent Pokemon to use. His power as Mega Gengar is amazing, and despite starting off with a bit of a handicap, he can really pull some weight around late game. All things considered, I'd say Haunter (w/trade) deserves to be in A rank. B rank at the absolute worst.
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formerly skywardsword596
Didn't see Pawniard, so here goes:

Fairly common in the Lost Hotel at levels 36-37. However, an in-game trade for Bisharp can be obtained by trading a Jigglypuff to a girl in Snowbelle City. (This Bisharp will be level 50 and will have an Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA) and a perfect IV in Attack.)
Stats: 45/85/70/40/40/60 (as Pawniard) and 65/125/100/60/70/70. Above average Attack and Defense for both forms, although they have very low Special Attack and Special Defense. The Speed is also an issue, as Sucker Punch is a breeding-only move, so it relies on its opponents being slower, weaker, or using Rock Polish
Movepool: At capture as a Pawniard it has access to Assurance and Metal Claw as STABs, both of which are rather weak, especially thanks to its late arrival. It needs more babying to reach level 52 to evolve, although it does pick up Night Slash along the way. After evolution, it will need 5 more levels to get Iron Head, its strongest STAB overall. It can complement its coverage with Brick Break or Low Sweep if necessary. Swords Dance is an available boosting option from Lumiose City. The in-game trade Bisharp will already have Night Slash and will need less grinding time thanks to its boosted EXP yield (it has a different Trainer ID) Most other coverage moves, with the possible exception of X-Scissor, are unnecessary.
Major Battles:
Olympia: (With Pawniard): Really easy. Nothing on this woman's team hits you for even neutral damage, and Shadow Ball from Meowstic has a chance to trigger Defiant. As for the Gym itself, watch out for random Medicham, they're more threatening than the leader.

Team Flare: Any Fire type will roast Pawniard, there's no avoiding it. Pawniard does have a good matchup against Golbat, but that's about it. Against Lysandre, he can beat...Murkrow? Honchkrow? You're gonna want to let him sit out this one.

Wulfric: Iron Head trashes Cryogonal and Abomasnow, and Avalugg can't touch you at all. Easy win

Malva: Obvious loss, for the same reasons as Team Flare. It can't even Sucker Punch Chandelure.

Wilkstrom: All of Wilkstrom's Pokemon have high Defense, and can screw with Bisharp in various ways. Note that Bisharp is one of the few Pokemon in-game to not care about King's Shield thanks to Defiant. Sacred Sword is still a problem if Aegislash lives Night Slash

Drasna: Dragalge can only touch you with Surf or Thunderbolt and doesn't have the greatest physical Defense, so Iron Head away. Altaria can bullshit you with Sing and Cotton Guard but can only hit you neutrally with Moonblast (which can also trigger Defiant). Druddigon is bulky and carries Revenge, while Noivern is faster and has Flamethrower, so these two should be avoided

Siebold: Starmie can only touch you with Surf and Dazzling Gleam, so you're fairly safe. Everything else carries either Earthquake (Gyarados), Cross Chop (Barbaracle), or Aura Sphere (Clauncher), so Siebold is not safe.

Diantha: Steer clear of Hawlucha. Bisharp smashes cleanly through Gourgeist, Aurorus, and Tyrantrum (heads up for Earthquake on the last one). Goodra wins due to Focus Blast and Fire Blast, and Gardevoir hits really hard with Moonblast, but dies to Iron Head

AZ: Torkoal is pretty bulky and can damage you with Fire moves. Golurk is hurt badly by Night Slash and can't touch you at all. Sigilyph is pretty much lolNightSlashlol.

Rival: All the starters barring Greninja are problems as they have moves to heavily damage or outright KO Pawniard or Bisharp, who can only take Greninja out with Brick Break(so Delphox users might be interested). Jolteon with Double Kick and Flareon with anything trash the Dark Knight as well. He performs decently against anything else the rival carries (Brick Break for Absol?)

Comments: Bisharp's interesting typing lets it trigger Defiant on moves such as Shadow Ball, Crunch, and Flash Cannon; use this to your advantage. Bisharp loses a bit of steam towards the end of the game, but it is still very strong. Getting the in-game trade Bisharp is highly advised as the nature and the IVs are both beneficial. High-Mid B Tier Overall, due to its lackluster moveset and Speed.

Also MikeAU, do you think Trick Room could be an option on Slowking? It gets it in Coumarine City, right after you catch it, although that is randomized...
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My jimmies remain unrustled
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Route 9 (Early-Mid) Sandile comes at a pretty good time, with Grant being the first gym leader he gets to face, and also appears at a decent level. Sandile evolves into Krokorok by around the time you get your third badge, more or less. Then you evolve into Krookodile by the time you're about to challenge the 7th gym, more or less.

Typing: The Sandile family are Ground/Dark types, which helps in the second, fifth, and seventh gyms, as well as two elite four members, though leaves him at a disadvantage against the third, fourth, sixth, and eighth gyms, and one member of the elite four. His STAB coverage is pretty good, with only a few foes resisting the combo.

Stats: 50 / 72 / 35 / 35 / 35 / 65

Krokorok: 60 / 82 / 45 / 45 / 45 / 74

Krookodile: 95 / 117 / 80 / 65 / 70 / 92

His power is great as Krookodile, and his speed is passable, while his defenses are pretty good, especially his defense in combination with Intimidate.

Movepool: (Decent) Upon capture, he has Assurance as a decent STAB to start off with, but if you managed to buy Bulldoze at Lumoise City, he has another good attack to work with. At Level 28, Sandile learns Crunch, which is your main form of offense for a while, and at the late 54, Krookodile gets Earthquake, which is likely earlier than finding the actual TM Earthquake. For TMs, you can teach him Rock Tomb after defeating Grant, which is a good coverage move on him. You can also get Thief at Camphrier Town to replace Assurance if you think stealing an item is worth your time. At Shalour City, you can get Dig as a replacement for Bulldoze, or even keep both and use Dig when necessary. Other moves include Aerial Ace at Connecting Cave and Low Sweep at the Tower of Mastery, but these aren't too impressive on him. In Frost Caverns, you can pick up Stone Edge to replace Rock Tomb. Much later in the game in Couriway Town, you can use Rock Slide if Stone Edge's accuracy doesn't work out for you. The rest of his moves are either too bad or are obtained too late in the game to be worth considering.

Major Battles:

Team Flare: Resist Dark? Yup. Hit Fire- and Poison-types super-effectively? That's there. Bulldoze and Intimidate for double battles? Present. Easy wins? Check.

Grant: An easy time if you level grind 2-3 levels after your first battles with Team Flare. Bulldoze takes care of anything in that gym except a trainer's Relicanth and Dwebble, and Grant's Amaura. Other than those, it's a fairly easy win.

Korrina: Bad matchup entirely. Everything hits you with Fighting-type moves, and you can't really do much back. It's true that you have Aerial Ace, but that's not saying much. Let someone else handle this gym.

Ramos: Same thing as above, just replace any use of the word Fighting with Grass.

Clemont: Now this is an easy sweep here. Bulldoze and Dig make this a walk in the park. Clemont's Heliolisk has Grass Knot, but that's really it.

Valerie: Same thing as Korrina and Ramos, just with Fairy replacing Fighting and Grass. On the bright side, he can destroy Mawile and a Klefki, but that's it.

Olympia: Aside from a trainer's Medicham and another's Gardevoir, Krokorok cleans house.

Lysandre(All): Beats Pyroar, isn't too bothered by Murkrow/Honchkrow, but is demolished by Mienfoo/Mienshao if you don't outspeed and kill it on turn one, and (Mega) Gyarados can rip you to shreds.

Wulfric: Not much resists either STAB, but everything can kill you fairly easily if you have to take a hit. Avalugg just kills you so easily.

All Rival Battles: Meowstic, Flareon, Jolteon, and Delphox/Braixen are killed off by STAB, Greninja/Frogadier, Vaporeon, and Chesnaught/Quilladin will beat you (though with a Moxie boost or two, you can take them on, provided you outspeed), Altaria is a neutral matchup, and you resist Absol's STAB.

Wikstrom: The only thing to worry about is Scizor and X-Scissor. Other than that, it's an easy time.

Malva: Nothing is safe from Krookodile. Everything gets killed off with no challenge.

Drasna: Aside from Druddigon, Krookodile can hit everything super-effectively, and only fears Dragalge's Surf if he fails to KO, which he shouldn't fail to do in the first place.

Siebold: Everything can kill you here, but only Clauncher avoids super-effective damage.

Diantha: Goodra and Gardevoir are the only things you can't hit super-effectively, everything except Tyrantrum can hit you super-effectively, and only Hawlucha and Gardevoir should be outrunning you. A so-so matchup.

AZ: A complete joke. STABs alone end this battle instantly.


Krookodile has some potential as an in game Pokemon, but he has too many disadvantages to consistently pull off a sweep. However, Moxie can easily allow him to sweep whole teams provided you get the right matchups. His power is great, his speed manageable, and his coverage passable, though if you run Intimidate, Krookodile becomes much harder to use. The bottom line, I say he deserves C rank without Moxie, and B at worst with it.

I think we should have a more specific tiering for Pikachu; Pikachu with Thunderstone, and Pikachu with Light Ball, regardless of how unlikely it is to get it. I'll do Pikachu with Thunderstone for now.

Pikachu (Thunderstone)

Santalune Forest (Very Early) Pikachu is one of the first wild Pokemon you find in the game, and the only Electric-type you can find until later in the game. You can get the Thunderstone at Route 10, but you should hold off on evolving Pikachu right away, since he levels up Thunderbolt faster than it would take you to get to the Move Reminder.

The Pikachu family are Electric-types, only being weak to Ground, while having decent resistances. He has an advantage against the first gym, and against an elite four member, but doesn't have any particular disadvantage against any gym/elite four member through its typing alone.

35 / 55 / 40 / 50 / 50 / 90

Raichu: 60 / 90 / 55 / 90 / 80 / 110

Raichu is built to be a mixed, fast sweeper with some coverage here and there. His bulk is disappointing, especially as Pikachu, falling to physical attackers fairly easily. His speed, however, is excellent throughout the whole game, outpacing most Pokemon you encounter.

(Below Average) Pikachu levels up some good Electric-type moves, such as Thunderbolt for attacking and Thunder Wave for making it easier to capture Pokemon, but outside of Electric-type moves, he has a rather limited movepool. When Dig, Focus Blast, and Grass Knot are considered his best coverage options, you can tell he has some issues to iron out. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if you caught Pichu and got Nasty Plot, but this sadly is not the case. Anyways, Dig is at Shalour City Pokemart, Focus Blast is at Anistar City Pokemart, and Grass Knot is won at the fourth gym.

Major Battles:

Viola: Normally this would go either way, but since both of her Pokemon are weak to Thundershock, this is actually pretty easy. Though most of the trainers in the gym are neutral matchups.

Tam Flare: The only thing weak to Thundershock/Bolt is the Zubat family. Everything else is mostly neutral.

Grant: Geodude and Onix destroy Pikachu, but most others are neutral matchups.

Korrina: Through typing, it goes either way. Through stats, Pikachu/Raichu gets slaughtered. He can nail Hawlucha, but that's it.

Ramos: Almost everything resists Thunderbolt, and Ramos' Gogoat has Bulldoze to wreck Raichu. Bad matchup overall.

Clemont: This is a neutral matchup unless you have Dig. If you're not using Dig, just use someone else.

Valerie: Another neutral matchup. Sylveon and Mr.Mime sponge your attacks and can hit back, but that's it.

Olympia: Yet another neutral matchup overall. You can take care of Slowking and Sigilyph, however.

Lysandre(All): Gyarados and Murkrow/Honchkrow are destroyed, but Mega Gyarados can live a Thunderbolt and Earthquake to destroy you. Focus Blast takes care of Pyroar, and pure power can take care of Mienshao/Mienfoo.

Wulfric: Focus Blast kills everything, but without it, it's your average neutral matchup.

Rival Battles(All): Water starter and Vaporeon get wrecked, Grass starter can wall you to an extent, Absol dies to Focus Blast, and Jolteon can absorb Thunderbolt. The rest are neutral matchups.

Wikstrom: Not a very good idea, since everything can avoid an OHKO (Probopass has Sturdy), and can either deal significant damage if not OHKO you or set up.

Malva: Talonflame is easily beaten by Thunderbolt and Pyroar is with Focus Blast, the rest are neutral.

Drasna: Disadvantage for the most part. Dragalge and Druddigon resist Thunderbolt and will wear you down. The rest are neutral.

Siebold: Spam Thunderbolt, watch things die.

Diantha: Thunderbolt wrecks Hawlucha, and Focus Blast takes care of Tyrantrum and Aurorus, while the rest have an advantage against you. Gourgeist and Goodra can resist near anything you throw at them, while Mega Gardevoir is just too bulky to breat through.

AZ: Sigilyph is destroyed, Golurk destroys you, and Torkoal is neutral.


Raichu is a Pokemon that has numerous neutral matchups, and while that isn't exactly a bad thing, it isn't much of a blessing, either. What people want are advantages and quick kills; he has few advantages, and the only thing quick about him is his speed. Not a bad Pokemon, but not really good. I say put him in D rank.

I have two question: first, is there a rule about a single person doing too many reviews here? And second, is everything in the "not yet tiered" box up to date? I'm in a reviewing mood and could easily review 3-4 more Pokemon.
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Robot from the Future
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Could you not triple post please. I believe there is an edit button.

In answer to your questions, there is no limit no. However, currently many peoples are way way too big to be considered for actual use. If the time comes and we can actually get this organised and written up, most will have to be SEVERELY truncated and shortened. Check out SuperJOCKE's thread for BW/BW2 for a better idea on whats more likely.

In response to the second point, I think IAR updated as of his latest post in this thread, which is on this page. Please use those as a reference and work from there ^__^


A distant memory
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Alright time to shift this tier list after an asdfghjkl; amount of time. -_-

Absol: N/A -> C-Tier
Aerodactyl: Limbo (A/S-Tier) -> S-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Plant): N/A -> E-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Sand): N/A -> E-Tier
Burmy (Wormadam Trash): N/A -> E-Tier
Carbink: Limbo (D/E-Tier) -> E-Tier
Caterpie: N/A -> C-Tier
Chatot: Limbo (D/E-Tier) -> D-Tier
Clauncher (X): N/A -> D-Tier
Combee: N/A -> E-Tier
Emolga: Limbo (C/D-Tier) -> C-Tier
Flabébé: N/A -> D-Tier
Goomy: N/A -> D-Tier
Honedge: Limbo (A/S-Tier) -> S-Tier
Inkay: Limbo (C/D-Tier) -> D-Tier
Lapras: N/A -> C-Tier
Noibat: N/A -> D-Tier
Panpour: Limbo (C/D-Tier) -> D-Tier
Pikachu: N/A -> C-Tier
Sableye: N/A -> D-Tier
Sandile: N/A -> C-Tier
Staryu: Limbo (B/C-Tier) -> B-Tier
Throh: Limbo (B/C-Tier) -> B-Tier
Ursaring: Limbo (D/E-Tier) -> D-Tier
Xerneas: N/A -> B-Tier
Yveltal: N/A -> B-Tier

Like before, all tierings are provisional until this tier list is sent to C&C. If you disagree with the tiering of something in some tier, do not be afraid to speak up & say why something should be lower or higher; it will be considered. It also means you are still welcome to nominate something tiered for another tier or validate its tiering.

This update, all proposed went into their respective tiers, & all Limbos were resolved. Honedge is probably a more controversial S-Tiering since it is slow, but a great typing, solid coverage, & decent bulk makes me feel it is worthy of the tiering. In a tier list where no Exp. Share means that OHKOes are harder to come by, this means that having some decent physical bulk is a good factor. I can expand on the rest if needed.

I guess that is like 140 mons tiered or something once I update the OP? But yeah. Let us keep this up at a faster rate... -_-


My jimmies remain unrustled
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(Mid) You can catch him at Route 22, but in order to do that, you have to get the Good Rod, which is obtained at Couramine City, so you'd either have to do significant backtracking in order to go catch him, or progress a bit more through the game and miss some exp opportunities to basically take the easy way out, though this review will assume one does the prior. He'll be obtained at level 25, pretty low considering that the next gym has Pokemon in their mid-30s. However, he evolves at level 30, so he isn't dead weight for too long.

Typing: The Carvanha family is Water/Dark type, which will be a curse for the first three gyms he can participate in, but has no particular disadvantage against the elite four. Offensively, Water/Dark coverage is pretty good. Being walled by few opponents, though some of those few are used in major battles.

Stats: 45 / 90 / 20 / 65 / 20 / 65

Sharpedo: 70 / 120 / 40 / 95 / 40 / 95

Sharpedo is terrible at taking hits, and Carvanha living a neutral hit is rather miraculous, so you need to baby him until he at least evolves. His speed, while not the greatest, is still pretty good, and his mixed attacking prowess shouldn't go unnoticed.

Movepool: (Average) The second you catch Carvanha, his only attacking move is Ice Fang, which is decent for coverage, and you can teach him Thief as a decent physical STAB attack, with Surf as his best special STAB (Hydro Pump is bred). At level 28, he learns Crunch as his most powerful physical STAB, being tied with Waterfall in terms of power. TMs include Bulldoze at Lumoise City for Electric-types, Rock Tomb at Cyllage City for Bug-types, Poison Jab at Shalour City for Fairy-types, Ice Beam at Snowbelle City for Grass-types, and Earthquake at Route 21 to replace Bulldoze, though the first two become redundant late in the game, Poison Jab is kind of bad when not hitting Grass- or Fairy-types, and Ice Beam is obtained too late in the game, as well as the fact that the prior three can only be taught to Sharpedo.

Major Battles:

All Rival Battles: You can take out Meowstic, Altaria, Flareon, and the Fire starter, and do adequately enough against Absol and Vaporeon, but the rest are bad matchups.

Team Flare: Smashing through their Fire-types is easy work, and resisting Dark means you can actually live a few hits. Though neutral matchups are where things go south, such as when against Poison-types.

Ramos: You don't stand a chance here except killing Jumpluff with Ice Fang. Sharpedo's deadweight here.

Clemont: Bulldoze can nail the frail Electric-types, but if anything can take a hit, you're dead meat.

Valerie: Poison Jab the frail Fairies, stay away from anything involving bulk. He does surprisingly well here, but gets crushed by any Fairy-rype move.

Olympia: Finally, a gym Sharpedo can destroy. His high attack and speed combined with Crunch alone can take care of near anything in this gym aside from a Medicham.

Lysandre: Pyroar is vaporized and Murkrow/Honchkrow won't be a particular issue, but Mienfoo/Mienshao can easily KO you if you don't get the kill first turn, and (Mega) Gyarados can literally tank Sharpedo and go for the kill.

Wulfric: Aside from Abomasnow and Avalugg, no real disadvantage, and Ice resistance helps.

Wikstrom: If you got Earthquake, you can take out Klefki and can reliably OHKO Probopass (2HKO with Sturdy intact), and Crunch can hurt Aegislash, but might not KO while he and Scizor can KO you in return.

Malva: She has no chance at winning against you. Her Torkoal can possibly live a Waterfall and retaliate with Earthquake, and her Talonflame could outspeed Sharpedo, not to mention the risk of a Flame Body burn, but that's literally it.

Drasna: Ice Beam really helps against Noivern and Altaria, and Earthquake can take care of Dragalge, but Druddigon can live a hit and retaliate.

Siebold: Half advantage, half disadvantage for this battle. Crunch takes out Starmie and Earthquake can wound if not KO Barbaracle, but the rest can live a hit and take you out.

Diantha: Hawlucha lead destroys you, everything is too bulky to KO without hitting them super-effectively. The only reliable matchups are Gourgeist and Aurorus, while Tyrantrum and Goodra can live a hit and KO with an attack of choice. Mega Gardevoir takes a lot of damage from Poison Jab, but this is a shaky KO, while Mega Gardevoir can easily kill with Moonblast.

AZ: All three are weak to STAB, so this should be fairly easy.

Comments: Sharpedo isn't exactly a very good Pokemon for an in game run, but he's certainly not the worst. He has several bat matchups, but does have his moments. His defenses are pathetic, but he has great offensive potential. He's a so-so Pokemon, and that's just fine with me. D or E rank.


Glittering Cave (Early) Ferroseed can be obtained just before the fight with Grant, which is a very convenient time to catch him. He evolves at level 40, so around the time you get to fight Valerie.

Typing: The Ferroseed family is Grass/Steel type, granting many great resistances at the cost of very few weaknesses. These weaknesses are bad news when facing certain battles, but resisting most of the game's attacks is amazing. Offensively, Grass/Steel coverage is walled by a few types, but does well enough for the most part.

Stats: 44 / 50 / 91 / 24 / 86 / 10

Ferrothorn: 74 / 94 / 131 / 54 / 116 / 20

Tanking hits is what the Ferroseed family does best, but they can hit back well enough. Their terrible speed is what turns many players away from using him, but that should only apply to a speed-run.

Movepool: (Below Average) Upon capture, Ferroseed has Curse and Metal Claw, already making him a lethal set up tank. He also comes with Rollout and he gets Pin Missile at level 18 as some form of coverage, but they're really just there for when something resists Steel. At 21, Gyro Ball is leveled up, being his strongest move in the future, and can work wonders with Curse, but it's not going to be at 150 power since the speed differences are less significant at low levels, but it should still do good damage. At level 40, he gets Power Whip, which will finally allow him to take on Water-types more effectively. For TMs, the only notable moves Ferroseed can use are Rock Smash at Ambrette Town and Poison Jab at Shalour City, but Ferrothorn gains access to Bulldoze at Lumoise City store, Aerial Ace at Connecting Cave, and Shadow Claw at Glittering Cave. A notable move that isn't offensive is Thunder Wave at Route 10, so more easily capturing Pokemon/crippling opponents is good to have. If needed, Ferrothorn gets Cut and Strength.

Major Battles:

Team Flare: Fire-types and Scrafty are bad news, but they're really the only concern.

Grant: Ferroseed can set up on everything and proceed to KO. Nothing stops this thing once it starts setting up.

Korrina: This is one of the few bad matchups Ferroseed will ever face. Fighting-types prey upon him, so he's no good here.

All Rival Battles: Meowstic is set up bait, Fire starter and Flareon can easily KO, and everything else is taken care of with no problem.

Ramos: You resist most things thrown at you, and you can set up on everything.

Clemont: I'm getting tired of saying this, but I'll say it anyways; easy set up and sweep.

Valerie: You can kill everything here, even without setting up.

Olympia: Aside from a Medicham, there shouldn't be an issue here.

Lysandre: Mienfoo/Mienshao can take you down, Pyroar requires no effort to OHKO you, Murkrow/Honchkrow aren't too bothersome, and (Mega) Gyarados is easily taken down.

Wulfric: Another easy time without the need to set up.

Wikstrom: You can set up on his Klefki and sweep from there. Aegislash can hit you with Sacred Sword and bypass defense buffs, but that's really it.

Malva: Ferrothorn won't last a second here.

Drasna: Other than her Noivern with Flamethrower, there won't be any problems here.

Siebold: Clawitzer can nail you hard with Aura Sphere, but defeat him, and the match is as good as yours.

Diantha: Even though Hawlucha can't 2HKO you, she has Swords Dance to counter Curse, and Goodra can easily kill with Fire Blast. The rest shouldn't present a problem.

AZ: Torkoal is the only thing you can't take on. The other two are an easy time.

Comments: Ferrothorn is an amazing Pokemon to use, the only flaws here are lacking some good coverage until he evolves and speed, which really ruins speed-runs. Other than those, he's an amazing Pokemon to use. As long as you're not doing a speed-run, put him in A rank.



Route 5 (Early game) Skiddo is available just after your first visit in Lumoise City, which is a convenient time not only because of getting good TMs then, but also because Grant is the first gym leader he can battle.

The Skiddo family is Grass type, which is a bit difficult to manage, considering its multitude of weaknesses that hinder you in a few major battles, but also carries helpful resistances which help against several other major battles.

66 / 65 / 48 / 62 / 57 / 52

Gogoat: 123 / 100 / 62 / 97 / 81 / 68

Gogoat is pretty good at taking hits while hitting back hard with either offensive stat or both of them, but his low speed can get in the way of a sweep, and his physical defense isn't exactly the best.

(Average) Skiddo starts off with Vine Whip, which is a decent move to throw around for a bit. At level 13, he can replace Vine Whip with Razor Leaf, and at level 30, he can replace that with Seed Bomb, and at level 55 as Gogoat, Lead Blade replaces that. At level 22, he learns Take Down, which helps against Flying-, Bug-, and opposing Grass-types. At level 34, Gogoat learns Bulk Up, which will be a good set up move for sweeping. For TMs, Bulldoze is available right before you can catch Skiddo, so he already gets a good coverage move for the time. He can replace that with Earthquake either at Route 22 or when he hits level 60 as Gogoat, whichever comes first. Aerial Ace found at Connecting Cave has its moments, but is rather situational late game. He can get Surf from Serena after you beat Korrina for the second time, which can help against frail Fire-types, and is good to have for travel. He also gets Strength if you need it. At Couriway Town, you can find Rock Slide, which helps against Flying-, Bug-, and Ice-types.
Major Battles:

Team Flare: Zubat/Golbat and Fire-types are the only things that specifically threaten Skiddo/Gogoat. Everything else is fairly easy to plow through.

Grant: This is just way too easy. Amaura and a trainer's Dwebble should be the only things that can take Skiddo on. The rest are easy pickings.

All Rival Battles: Your rival's Fire starter will easily KO, and other than Vaporeon with Aurora Beam, nothing else can threaten you, especially if you have a few Bulk Ups under the belt.

Korrina: If you have Bulk Up now, this gym can only threaten you with Hawlucha and a trainer's Heracross, but is a rather bat match up without it, even if you have Aerial Ace.

Ramos: You surely have Bulk Up by now, and if you also taught Gogoat Aerial Ace, this gym is a cakewalk.

Clemont: You resist Electric-type moves, have Bulldoze to throw around, and Bulk Up to ensure one-shots. GG, Clemont.

Valerie: No real advantage in terms of typing, though a move or two can hit some things super effectively. Mostly a neutral match-up.

Olympia: Sigilyph is a pain to deal with, but the gym is mostly another neutral match-up, otherwise.

Lysandre: Honchkrow/Murkrow and Pyroar can threaten Gogoat. Mienshao hits on his weaker defense, but he can live a hit and retaliate. (Mega) Gyarados is a good match-up for you.

Wulfric: If you're crazy enough to use Gogoat here, he can hit things with Rock Slide, but one hit from an Ice-type move and he's down.

Wikstrom: Earthquake takes care of everything here except Scizor, who can nail you with X-Scissor, but a few Bulk Ups remedy this weakness.

Malva: You can hit everything here super-effectively with Rock Slide or Surf, though everything can rip you a new one with their Fire-type moves.

Drasna: Dragalge and Noivern can threaten you with Sludge Bomb and Air Slash respectively, but the rest are small fry.

Siebold: Gyarados has Ice Fang, but that's the only thing that you're weak to. The rest is smooth sailing.

Diantha: Hawlucha lead takes you out, Goodra can use Fire Blast, and Mega Gardevoir can muscle her way through your defenses. The rest are nothing too threatening.

AZ: Sigilyph beats you, Torkoal goes either way without Surf, and Golurk is beaten.
Additional Comments:

Gogoat is by no means a bad Pokemon, he's just outclassed by Mega Venusaur as a tank, Ferrothorn as a set up sweeper, and Simisage as an attacker, but finds himself as the middle road between the three, which can be reason enough to use him. He's a jack-of-all-trades kind of guy, but he's also master of none. I'd say put him in C rank.
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Robot from the Future
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The thread is not dead in the slightest. If you want to post them up go for it :)

I'm using Hawlucha and Skiddo in this game with 4 other mons which can't be tiered cause they are not XY mons :P

I've only JUST got Hawlucha, but Skiddo is pretty solid at this point. Decent attack and relatively bulky.
I got something to add:

Lunatone: Tier B
-Availability: Glittering Cave
-Typing: Rock/Psychic is a pretty good in-game typing, all things considered. A complete lack of Ghost or Dark type bosses in the game plays to Lunatone's strengths, and Ramos is a joke anyway. Seibold and Wilkstrom are the only major fights in the entire game where Lunatone cannot perform due to it's typing.

-Stats: 70/55/65/95/85/70. Lunatone is very powerful for the part of the game where it is obtained, but it does fall off in the later game with it's mediocre stats. It is a special-based bulky attacker.

-Movepool: Lunatone has an excellent movepool. Starting off with Confusion, Rock Polish, Hypnosis and either Rock Throw or Psywave is strong, andf Lunatone gets access to Rock Slide at only Lv 25, and Psychic at Lv 33. This means it is entirely possible for Lunatone to have two powrful STABs before Ramos. Stone Edge comes at Lv 41, and Moonblast comes for the lategame at Lv 50.

In terms of TM's, Lunatone learns Bulldoze, Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Earthquake, Rock Tomb and Shadow Ball. This moveset allows Lunatone to hit most pokemon super-effectively, combined with it's utility with Hypnosis.

-Major Battles:
Grant - Beats Amaura easily. Tyrunt beats it with Strong Jaws Bite.
Korrina - Lunatone destroys Hawlucha, but the other fighting-types hit it neutrally. Confusion, or Psychic can still potentially sweep, especially if you still have Rock Polish.
Ramos - You can OHKO Weepingbel with Psychic
Clemont - Rock Slide on Emolga. Bulldoze is Quad effective on Magneton, but Sturdy and Mirror Shot is a risk. You won't overpower Heliolisk, especially since it packs Grass Knot.
Valerie - Mawile's only offensive moves are both Dark-type. Mr.Mime is beatable but will take time with it's screens. Sylveon pretty much walls Lunatone
Olympia - You can Rock Slide Sigilyph
Team Flare - Poison types fall to Psychics. Pretty much everything else hates Bulldoze or Rock Slide, except the Darks that are not named Houndoom. In terms of Lysandre, while you can hit his entire team SE, the only one that is safe for Lunatone is Meinshao

Wulfric - Abomasnow and Cryongal both carry an SE move, but the latter loses to Rock Slide. Avalugg is too tanky for Rock Slides to beat.
Rival - You crush Delphox. Ice Beam handles Altaria. Shadow Ball beats Meowstic. Jolteon and Flareon both lose to Earthquakes.

Malva - Talonflame is destroyed by Rock Slide. Earthquake can defeat Pyroar
Dransa - Ice Beam/Moonblast everything
Wlikstrom - Nope
Seibold - NOPE. This guy is rough even for pokemon not weak to water.
Dianthia - Lunatone destroys Hawlucha. Aurorus can be handled but is riskier now, since your base 55 attack probobly won't get the job done in 1 hit, possibly even 2. Goodra is too tanky to easily be defeated by Ice Beams or Moonblasts. Everything else beats Lunatone.

-Other: Lunatone is in the Fast Experience group, so gains levels quicker than most pokemon. Lunatone pushes into B [Just about] through it's early and midgame power, and wide movepool that allows it to be useful later despite it's mediocre stats.

Not sure if Solrock is as good yet. It's movepool is worse overall, since it is physically focused, and thus cannot benefit as much from Calm Mind, or it's coverage Fire-Type moves.

I'll be able to talk about Vileplume and Hippo after this run.


Suggesting Minun for F-Tier. It's worse than Plusle. Minun has to make do using it's Base 40 attack stat until it either learns Electro Ball at Lv 29, which is not exactly great with it's Base 95 speed, or until after Clemont. Plusle at least can use Spark with Base 50 Attack, and it's base Sp.Atk is a little higher than Minun's as well, giving it a stronger Thunderbolt to the point you can almost justify it. Minun is complete dead weight. Having to go 20 levels running off 40 Base Attack is unforgivable.
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A bit sceptical about B tier for Lunatone. I'd put him in Limbo B/C. While I haven't used it, 55 Atk is terrible, and 95 Sp.Atk is lackluster mid to end-game. I'd agree for B if it had Power Gem or Ancient Power in order to have a reliable Rock STAB. Besides, its Speed is pretty meh. It has a cool typing, it grows fast, has a somewhat diverse movepool, but it has some serious flaws.

However I agree about Minun. A pretty terrible pokemon.

I'm testing Seviper. Early good STABs, Glare, cool typing, Bulldoze and 100/100 offensive stats are very interesting. Plus, it has Bite/Night Slash /Crunch to beat psychic types. However, its bulk isn't the best out there.

cant say

grumpy and stubborn
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I'm using Solrock atm and it's actually pretty good. It doesn't clean out any gyms but I usually have it first in my party and it handles random trainers quite well. I have it using rock slide, psychic, bulldoze and a rotating move. Mine is naive and I raised it a bit in the desert against dugtrios (ohko with grass knot) so it has some good speed. It is by no means a great Pokemon but it's also not horrible. I was gonna push for C tier if I got around to a write up but D tier is fine. I would assume Lunatone would be in a similar tier. B seems quite high imo


formerly skywardsword596
Yeah Solrock and Lunatone seem like C-tier material. I like their TM-variety and decent attacking stats; they're not game-breakers but they can hit hard if necessary. I personally think Solrock is superior as it can utilize powerful physical attacks early (Lv. 25 Rock Slide, Acrobatics from Coumarine, and Bulldoze/Earthquake), as well as some added Fire moves.
B-tier is fine for Froakie. While it's very good as a Greninja, it struggles quite a bit as a Frogadier. Plus, it has some serious issues mid-game, having bad match-ups vs Ramos/Clemont/Valerie (the latter assuming you already have a Greninja, but as a Frogadier it isn't much better).

Chespin...Well, I haven't an opinion.
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