Espeon doesn't really have any truly favorable matchups except Korrina (even her if you miss Psybeam) and grinding happiness is inefficient for the purpose of an efficient run or a speed run. Sure it can kill Team Flare's Golbats all day but they were never really a problem anyway. It also relies on TMs, and many of the moves it wants (Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball) come quite late in the game. I think C-Tier is the best place for it. I don't really think any of the Eeveelutions are deserving of B-Tier. Flareon and Espeon are fine in C, and I'm still unsure whether Vaporeon and Jolteon belong in C or D.
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Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Its_A_Random
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Espeon doesn't really have any truly favorable matchups except Korrina (even her if you miss Psybeam) and grinding happiness is inefficient for the purpose of an efficient run or a speed run. Sure it can kill Team Flare's Golbats all day but they were never really a problem anyway. It also relies on TMs, and many of the moves it wants (Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball) come quite late in the game. I think C-Tier is the best place for it. I don't really think any of the Eeveelutions are deserving of B-Tier. Flareon and Espeon are fine in C, and I'm still unsure whether Vaporeon and Jolteon belong in C or D.
Uh, yeah. That's exactly what I said.
After I posted I read over yours again and saw how similar they were but that's really all there is to say about the subject. Espeon without Psybeam is worthless.
Aromatisse: C-Tier or D-Tier?: In my opinion, it's a D-rank pokemon. First of all, it needs trading to evolve. Second, it depend a bit on TMs, as its only good level-up moves are Moonblast and Psychic. Also, it has rather average stats, and awful speed. It does help against Korrina and Drasna, but usually it'll be too slow to be worth it, and Aromatisse gets beaten in many other battles, like Team Flare, Malva, and Wikstrom.
Pansear: C-Tier or D-Tier?: I'd put it in C-tier. It can be caught and evolved pretty early, and if you don't evolve it, it has a nice learnset, with moves like Incinerate, Fire Blast, and Crunch. It also gets moves from TMs, like Grass Knot, Rock Tomb, Shadow Claw, Low Sweep, and Dig(although they are not mandatory). Pansear/Simisear help against Viola(Surskit sucks, though), Ramos, Clemont(if you teach it Dig), Valerie, and Wulfric. Against the Elite Four, it has bad match-ups against Siebold, Drasna, and Malva(to an extent), but it helps a lot with Wikstrom. It's OK vs. Diantha too.
Pansear: C-Tier or D-Tier?: I'd put it in C-tier. It can be caught and evolved pretty early, and if you don't evolve it, it has a nice learnset, with moves like Incinerate, Fire Blast, and Crunch. It also gets moves from TMs, like Grass Knot, Rock Tomb, Shadow Claw, Low Sweep, and Dig(although they are not mandatory). Pansear/Simisear help against Viola(Surskit sucks, though), Ramos, Clemont(if you teach it Dig), Valerie, and Wulfric. Against the Elite Four, it has bad match-ups against Siebold, Drasna, and Malva(to an extent), but it helps a lot with Wikstrom. It's OK vs. Diantha too.
As for Vileplume:
Oddish is available quite early in Route 6, and can be evolved into Vileplume with the Leaf Stone on Route 8 by the time you reach the second gym. Vileplume has great special attack and acceptable bulk but it is quite slow, and its movepool leaves much to be desired. You'll probably be stuck with Mega Drain/Grass Knot and Venoshock for STAB until much later in the game where you finally get Sludge Bomb and Energy Ball/Petal Dance (or you can hold evolution as Gloom until Giga Drain at 47). The only other real interesting attack that it gets via TM is Dazzling Gleam. It can be a good support pokemon however, learning moves such as Sweet Scent, Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy, Flash, and Cut. Vileplume also doesn't have great boss matchups though, helpful against Grant, Ramos, and Siebold minus Gyarados, but pretty useless against Olympia, Wulfric, Wikstrom, and especially Malva. Overall I'd say D-Tier I think C-Tier would also be fair.
Oddish is available quite early in Route 6, and can be evolved into Vileplume with the Leaf Stone on Route 8 by the time you reach the second gym. Vileplume has great special attack and acceptable bulk but it is quite slow, and its movepool leaves much to be desired. You'll probably be stuck with Mega Drain/Grass Knot and Venoshock for STAB until much later in the game where you finally get Sludge Bomb and Energy Ball/Petal Dance (or you can hold evolution as Gloom until Giga Drain at 47). The only other real interesting attack that it gets via TM is Dazzling Gleam. It can be a good support pokemon however, learning moves such as Sweet Scent, Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy, Flash, and Cut. Vileplume also doesn't have great boss matchups though, helpful against Grant, Ramos, and Siebold minus Gyarados, but pretty useless against Olympia, Wulfric, Wikstrom, and especially Malva. Overall I'd say D-Tier I think C-Tier would also be fair.
Coverage options? It has Fire + Ground coverage which is nearly unresisted. So Fire Fang / Flare Blitz + Dig are a must-have. Then you have Return, Flame Charge to fix up the Speed, or a special move if you want to get rid of things like Avalugg because 95 Sp.Atk is pretty decent.
It doesn't have many coverage options, granted, but it hits like a truck, fares extremely well vs a good chunck of the Gym Leaders (The second half of the game being mainly Special-oriented helps Flareon as 110 Sp.Def is impressive and will allow it to take some hits) and has a great typing for X/Y. For me, it's B-tier.
Vileplume is C-tier, I agree. Hits hard (That early Venoshock one-shots like half of the trainers), acceptable bulk, OK typing, Dazzling Gleam and Powders are big assets. However, a low Speed and lack of a good Plant STAB are big downsides.
Dig isn't exactly what I would consider ideal coverage, but Fire-types are very strong in X/Y seemingly. I'm going to stay with C-Tier but I've never actually used it in a playthrough. A set of Flamethrower / Flare Blitz / Dig / Return is probably close to as good as you're going to get.
I'm sure early game it's fantastic due to base 110 special attack, Venoshock and its bulk are more than good enough at that point. The main issue with it is once the opponents start using more powerful pokemon and Mega Drain and Venoshock don't cut it anymore until you get better TMs, which is a decent portion of the game. It's also quite unhelpful against the Elite Four and Team Flare.
I was unaware of this, Vileplume is making a strong case for C-Tier due the earlier availability and early-game power.
Fun fact: Eevee comes in the wild as low as Level 19...
...
There goes pretty much most of Espeon's chances of going high (since you need to walk around like mad to get it to evolve at Level 20, wasting several minutes unless you decide to simply put it at the back of the party with no Exp. Share but then make it so under-levelled later on). Ehhh Future Sight is okay I guess but three turn waiting period sucks so badly hahaha.
Also the argument for Happiness Evolutions vs. Sylveon's condition and why I consider them different is because you can actually progress through the game while fulfilling the Happiness condition. You cannot in the case of Sylveon's evolution condition.
...
There goes pretty much most of Espeon's chances of going high (since you need to walk around like mad to get it to evolve at Level 20, wasting several minutes unless you decide to simply put it at the back of the party with no Exp. Share but then make it so under-levelled later on). Ehhh Future Sight is okay I guess but three turn waiting period sucks so badly hahaha.
Also the argument for Happiness Evolutions vs. Sylveon's condition and why I consider them different is because you can actually progress through the game while fulfilling the Happiness condition. You cannot in the case of Sylveon's evolution condition.
By "going high" do you mean A range or anywhere above even C?
Anywhere above B. Perhaps it now looks more C-Tier to D-Tier to me now that that particular discovery is made hahaha.
I think D-Tier may be a little harsh as it at least has good stats and if you do grind happiness for Psybeam its a good pokemon, and it learns some good TMs lategame in Dazzling Gleam, Grass Knot, and Shadow Ball. C-Tier is good imo.
In my opinion (reasoning in previous posts):
C-Tier: Espeon, Flareon, Pansear, Vaporeon, Vileplume, Venipede
D-Tier: Jolteon?, Aromatisse, Carvanha, Slurpuff
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A little bit of inactivity so after looking at the arguments...
Spritzee (w/ Trade) (Y): N/A -> D-Tier
Carvanha: N/A -> D-Tier
Eevee (Espeon): N/A -> C-Tier
Eevee (Flareon): N/A -> C-Tier
Eevee (Jolteon): N/A -> D-Tier
Pansear: N/A -> C-Tier
Swirlix (w/ Trade) (X): N/A -> D-Tier
Eevee (Vaporeon): N/A -> C-Tier
Venipede: N/A -> C-Tier
Oddish (Vileplume): N/A -> C-Tier
Like before, all tierings are provisional until this tier list is sent to C&C. If you disagree with the tiering of something in some tier, do not be afraid to speak up & say why something should be lower or higher; it will be considered. It also means you are still welcome to nominate something tiered for another tier or validate its tiering.
Now to discuss a bunch of Coastal Pokémon! Some proposed tierings with some thoughts on each:
Bagon: N/A -> C-Tier (Based on a hunch, but it looks more like a D-Tier so I guess C-Tier is a bit generous)
Binacle: N/A -> C-Tier (I cannot see much with Binacle to be honest. Shell Smash is probably a redeeming feature?)
Drifloon: N/A -> C-Tier (Seems to have a decent key matchup record with decent speed but suffers from not so great power later on and lousy defences)
Dwebble: N/A -> D-Tier (Match-up wise seems bleak. I guess Shell Smash helps it later so it could be worth a look at C-Tier)
Hippopotas: N/A -> D-Tier (Temporary team-hindering ability, slow, but it has a few good matchups and an okay Attack to boot)
Horsea (w/o Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Backtracking needed and I cannot find much good about Seadra. Having 95 SpA is okay? Probable merger with below)
Horsea (w/ Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Gaining a Dragon-typing helps but unless you want to wait until the very lategame, it is hard to get Dragon Scale...)
Lunatone: N/A -> D-Tier (Rock-type STAB sucky, need a low enough level for Confusion but does okay I guess)
Onix (w/ Trade): N/A -> C-Tier (In-game traded Steelix seems very legit. Can easily take on four gyms and is decentish against Team Flare but 85 Atk & 30 Spe...)
Qwilfish: N/A -> E-Tier (Comes late, bad match-ups outside of Malva, sucky Sp. Attack and its Attack is only okay)
Relicanth: N/A -> D-Tier (Latecomer, slow, at least it has two good matchups)
Rhyhorn (w/o Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Three good match-ups at least but it evolves quite late and has two debilitating 4× weaknesses)
Rhyhorn (w/ Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (At least Protector comes at a reasonable time but it is not much better than Rhydon. Probably end up merging)
Seviper: N/A -> C-Tier (Decent match-ups, great offences early on but is slow and somewhat frail)
Shellder (Y): N/A -> C-Tier (Looks genuinely good and maybe even B-Tier. A bit of backtracking hurts though and it comes at not a good time of the game for it)
Solrock: N/A -> D-Tier (Somewhat similar to Lunatone, at least Rock Slide is good but its Sp. Attack is really sucky)
Spoink: N/A -> D-Tier (Seems okay but sucks on the Physical side quite a bit. At least it has a decent STAB move to rely on early)
Tentacool: N/A -> C-Tier (A bit generous though its match-up prowess wildly fluctuates. Least it evolves soon after you get it)
Wailmer: N/A -> E-Tier (A bit of backtracking, it has only one good match-up, only has half decent speed, has average offences, evolves late and low defences)
Wingull: N/A -> D-Tier (Horde only, but has a decent match-up early on but that tapers out. Decent HM Slave I guess?)
Woobat: N/A -> D-Tier (Happiness evo yay and two good gym match-ups. No Confusion among a few other things are a big downer)
A bit of a wall of text but there are some 21 entries there. Have I got my guesses right? Anything else you want to bring up?
EDIT: OP Updated, 86 to go.
Spritzee (w/ Trade) (Y): N/A -> D-Tier
Carvanha: N/A -> D-Tier
Eevee (Espeon): N/A -> C-Tier
Eevee (Flareon): N/A -> C-Tier
Eevee (Jolteon): N/A -> D-Tier
Pansear: N/A -> C-Tier
Swirlix (w/ Trade) (X): N/A -> D-Tier
Eevee (Vaporeon): N/A -> C-Tier
Venipede: N/A -> C-Tier
Oddish (Vileplume): N/A -> C-Tier
Like before, all tierings are provisional until this tier list is sent to C&C. If you disagree with the tiering of something in some tier, do not be afraid to speak up & say why something should be lower or higher; it will be considered. It also means you are still welcome to nominate something tiered for another tier or validate its tiering.
Now to discuss a bunch of Coastal Pokémon! Some proposed tierings with some thoughts on each:
Bagon: N/A -> C-Tier (Based on a hunch, but it looks more like a D-Tier so I guess C-Tier is a bit generous)
Binacle: N/A -> C-Tier (I cannot see much with Binacle to be honest. Shell Smash is probably a redeeming feature?)
Drifloon: N/A -> C-Tier (Seems to have a decent key matchup record with decent speed but suffers from not so great power later on and lousy defences)
Dwebble: N/A -> D-Tier (Match-up wise seems bleak. I guess Shell Smash helps it later so it could be worth a look at C-Tier)
Hippopotas: N/A -> D-Tier (Temporary team-hindering ability, slow, but it has a few good matchups and an okay Attack to boot)
Horsea (w/o Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Backtracking needed and I cannot find much good about Seadra. Having 95 SpA is okay? Probable merger with below)
Horsea (w/ Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Gaining a Dragon-typing helps but unless you want to wait until the very lategame, it is hard to get Dragon Scale...)
Lunatone: N/A -> D-Tier (Rock-type STAB sucky, need a low enough level for Confusion but does okay I guess)
Onix (w/ Trade): N/A -> C-Tier (In-game traded Steelix seems very legit. Can easily take on four gyms and is decentish against Team Flare but 85 Atk & 30 Spe...)
Qwilfish: N/A -> E-Tier (Comes late, bad match-ups outside of Malva, sucky Sp. Attack and its Attack is only okay)
Relicanth: N/A -> D-Tier (Latecomer, slow, at least it has two good matchups)
Rhyhorn (w/o Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (Three good match-ups at least but it evolves quite late and has two debilitating 4× weaknesses)
Rhyhorn (w/ Trade): N/A -> D-Tier (At least Protector comes at a reasonable time but it is not much better than Rhydon. Probably end up merging)
Seviper: N/A -> C-Tier (Decent match-ups, great offences early on but is slow and somewhat frail)
Shellder (Y): N/A -> C-Tier (Looks genuinely good and maybe even B-Tier. A bit of backtracking hurts though and it comes at not a good time of the game for it)
Solrock: N/A -> D-Tier (Somewhat similar to Lunatone, at least Rock Slide is good but its Sp. Attack is really sucky)
Spoink: N/A -> D-Tier (Seems okay but sucks on the Physical side quite a bit. At least it has a decent STAB move to rely on early)
Tentacool: N/A -> C-Tier (A bit generous though its match-up prowess wildly fluctuates. Least it evolves soon after you get it)
Wailmer: N/A -> E-Tier (A bit of backtracking, it has only one good match-up, only has half decent speed, has average offences, evolves late and low defences)
Wingull: N/A -> D-Tier (Horde only, but has a decent match-up early on but that tapers out. Decent HM Slave I guess?)
Woobat: N/A -> D-Tier (Happiness evo yay and two good gym match-ups. No Confusion among a few other things are a big downer)
A bit of a wall of text but there are some 21 entries there. Have I got my guesses right? Anything else you want to bring up?
EDIT: OP Updated, 86 to go.
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Bagon seems D-Tier, available on Route 8 but is very rare, and until level 50 you have relatively crummy stats and a bad movepool (no STAB even until Dragon Breath at 32). Granted Salamence is a monster, but I don't think he's worth the effort, especially without the EXP share. Dragon Claw at 61 is ridiculously late.
Binacle, Drifloon, Tentacool, Shellder, and Seviper all seem fine in C-Tier, powerful enough but all having their drawbacks. Shellder might be a consideration for B-Tier as Skill Link Icicle Spear is so powerful, but water-types generally aren't as helpful in X/Y as they have been in past gens so C-Tier is probably fine.
Steelix appears to have fantastic in-game typing and matchups, at least against gyms, and you can get one from the in-game trade in Cyllage City early on (for a pathetic Luvdisc which are easily obtained via the Old Rod). I'd say he's a good candidate for B-Tier, although he is ungodly slow.
Other than that, the latecomers and ones that require backtracking should all be no higher than D-Tier. I agree with E-Tier for Wailmer and Qwilfish, I like both of those pokemon a lot but they are both quite bad (at least in-game). Water-types, as I said before, really do not have that many good matchups in X/Y.
Binacle, Drifloon, Tentacool, Shellder, and Seviper all seem fine in C-Tier, powerful enough but all having their drawbacks. Shellder might be a consideration for B-Tier as Skill Link Icicle Spear is so powerful, but water-types generally aren't as helpful in X/Y as they have been in past gens so C-Tier is probably fine.
Steelix appears to have fantastic in-game typing and matchups, at least against gyms, and you can get one from the in-game trade in Cyllage City early on (for a pathetic Luvdisc which are easily obtained via the Old Rod). I'd say he's a good candidate for B-Tier, although he is ungodly slow.
Other than that, the latecomers and ones that require backtracking should all be no higher than D-Tier. I agree with E-Tier for Wailmer and Qwilfish, I like both of those pokemon a lot but they are both quite bad (at least in-game). Water-types, as I said before, really do not have that many good matchups in X/Y.
Binacle/Barbaracle family
Proposed Tier: C/D (can't really evaluate - stupid long waits lol, I'm leaning on C)
Abilities: Tough Claws/Sniper -> Both are good abilities, with Tough Claws taking advantage of its physical STAB and movepool, while Sniper helps it after it has evolved and gained powerful moves with a higher Critical hit chance such as Razor Shell, Cross Chop and Stone Edge (though all of them have less than perfect accuracy)
Moves: As a Binacle, it's best level up move before evolution is Slash. Once evolved, it gets moves like Night Slash, the aforementioned Razor Shell, Cross Chop and Stone Edge, as well as boosting moves like Rock Polish, Hone Claws which boosts its good Attack stat and patches up the accuracy on most of its higher critical chance moves, and most importantly Shell Smash. It's best moves are best available with Heart Scales at the move relearner, however, unless you want to grind it hard into the 50's instead.
Major battles: It is barely any help against Grant, is weak against Korrina, Ramos and Clemont, has a slight advantage against Olympia with Night Slash, and can be useful against Wulfric, though Avalugg would probably be trouble without some boosts considering its titanic bulk. Night Slash and Stone Edge could be of use against Siebold's Starmie and Gyarados, and I'm fairly sure that it would have no problem with Malva after a Shell Smash, though beforehand it may have some trouble. It struggles against Wikstrom despite Cross Chop due to their stellar defenses and typings, Stone Edge could help with Drasna's two Flying types, and seems mostly neutral against Diantha.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure it laughs at Team Flare.
Additional comments: Binacle is pretty much dead weight until it evolves and reaches the move relearner. Barbaracle is powerful and gets good moves to take advantage of its abilities.
Forgive me if this sucks lol.
Without as much of an analysis, I'd hazard Bagon's tier depends on how soon it becomes a Salamence - around the sixth/seventh gyms without the Exp Share maybe? It's a damn Salamence, and at that point you've probably got tons of TMs to give it, but I'd hazard a D or C at best. It mostly has the same problem as Binacle in that it takes too long to become powerful, and is slightly worse in that being a two stage pseudo-legendary, it will probably feel much, much slower to grind.
Proposed Tier: C/D (can't really evaluate - stupid long waits lol, I'm leaning on C)
Abilities: Tough Claws/Sniper -> Both are good abilities, with Tough Claws taking advantage of its physical STAB and movepool, while Sniper helps it after it has evolved and gained powerful moves with a higher Critical hit chance such as Razor Shell, Cross Chop and Stone Edge (though all of them have less than perfect accuracy)
Moves: As a Binacle, it's best level up move before evolution is Slash. Once evolved, it gets moves like Night Slash, the aforementioned Razor Shell, Cross Chop and Stone Edge, as well as boosting moves like Rock Polish, Hone Claws which boosts its good Attack stat and patches up the accuracy on most of its higher critical chance moves, and most importantly Shell Smash. It's best moves are best available with Heart Scales at the move relearner, however, unless you want to grind it hard into the 50's instead.
Major battles: It is barely any help against Grant, is weak against Korrina, Ramos and Clemont, has a slight advantage against Olympia with Night Slash, and can be useful against Wulfric, though Avalugg would probably be trouble without some boosts considering its titanic bulk. Night Slash and Stone Edge could be of use against Siebold's Starmie and Gyarados, and I'm fairly sure that it would have no problem with Malva after a Shell Smash, though beforehand it may have some trouble. It struggles against Wikstrom despite Cross Chop due to their stellar defenses and typings, Stone Edge could help with Drasna's two Flying types, and seems mostly neutral against Diantha.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure it laughs at Team Flare.
Additional comments: Binacle is pretty much dead weight until it evolves and reaches the move relearner. Barbaracle is powerful and gets good moves to take advantage of its abilities.
Forgive me if this sucks lol.
Without as much of an analysis, I'd hazard Bagon's tier depends on how soon it becomes a Salamence - around the sixth/seventh gyms without the Exp Share maybe? It's a damn Salamence, and at that point you've probably got tons of TMs to give it, but I'd hazard a D or C at best. It mostly has the same problem as Binacle in that it takes too long to become powerful, and is slightly worse in that being a two stage pseudo-legendary, it will probably feel much, much slower to grind.
Yeah, I was trying to use Salamence, but I just couldn't stand not having a good Dragon-type move. Not having Dragon Claw seriously hurts, especially when having it upon at least evolving into Salamence would otherwise make him C rank at the absolute worst.
Definitely agree on Drifloon C-tier. It's really nice early on (Rock gym aside, but whatever) and it does well against the fighting gym (it should have evolved by then, and stockpile helps with rock tomb). What really sucks about it late game is its experience group; by ~level 60 it will be a pain in the ass to raise. When i reached the elite 4 with it, my team (after battling all trainers but no wild pokemon on victory road) was nearing or already at level 63-65 while drifblim was just reaching 60. Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Acrobatics, Thunderbolt, and Fly do add to its power, but it has some trouble KOing bulky fighting types with a flying move (Machamp, gurdurr, etc).
Doesn't it learn Psychic? Or is this just a case of four-moveslot syndrome?
As for my opinion on some we haven't touched yet:
Hippopotas: fine in D. Team-hindering abilities are never good although it isn't permanent anymore it suffers from "build the team around me," which obviously isn't ideal (are there even any pokemon in Kalos with Sand Force/Sand Rush?). Plus its slow with only 2 resistances and an immunity, as well as mediocre special bulk.
Wingull should drop to E-Tier. Horde only, which means it comes under-levelled. It's weak to rock, but it should do okay against Korrina and Ramos. After that, it's basically worthless. HM slaves don't seem to be needed at all in this game, and Wingull can't even learn Surf until it evolves and can never learn Waterfall. The only HM Wingull can learn is Fly, and it can't learn Rock Smash or Flash either.
Seadra also could also drop to E. I see zero redeeming qualities. Pretty bad stats, generic typing, water-types aren't that strong in this game. I guess it can hold Eviolite if nothing else? And yet again, backtracking required.
I play Binacle and it sucks, bery bad movepool until it evolves and then after, low accuracy moves, needs Smell Smash or Hone Claws to boost ... I love the design :(
Agree on D-tier for Bagon.
Agree for all others things
Agree on D-tier for Bagon.
Agree for all others things
Bit of theorymon on a few of these but I have also used a few. I found Binacle pretty solid throughout the game, does ok in the second gym, but then does seem to drop off vs gym leaders until Wulfric. It does excel against team flare though, Rock/Water pretty much resists every single one of Team Flare's Pokemon (They mostly use Fire/Poison/Flying types) and its movepool is actually pretty scary with Tough Claws. As soon as it gets Clamp (Level 20) & Rock Tomb from the second gym you get a moveset with which you can abuse Tough Claws. It also gets access to Shadow Claw as soon as you receive it too (assuming you picked it up in Glittering Cave). I'd probably lean C too, its pretty helpless against gyms 3/4/5. He does however destroy Malva in the Elite 4.
Bagon I would go D tier (or worse), it's movepool is *horrible*. Bite and Headbutt (and Shadow Claw) are its best options until it evolves... And even then it's movepool is shit. Yes Salamence can probably destroy worlds but getting there is a slog and a half...
Hippopotas is a really awkward one. I think its detrimental ability might really hamper it's usage ingame.
Horsea agreeing with the above that Horsea should drop to E. Lots of backtracking, stats are very mediocre and Seadra isn't that much of an offensive presence. Even with the availability of Kingdra, things do not get much better. Water types just are not that great in Kalos :(
The trade Steelix is def C or more. Luvdisc are everywhere and for that you gain an XP boosted defensive behemoth. It'll have no trouble keeping up with your team in terms of XP, and that strong bulk almost makes up for the awful speed.
Rhyhorn is an interesting one. Rhydon + Eviolite is one of the bulkiest things in the game (and can still dish out the hurt), and Rhyperior is almost a waste of that items potential. I'd probably merge them into one single account because there really isnt that much difference overall.
I'll take a look over the others later :)
I'm using Solrock at the moment and it's not horrible but definitely not great. It can have a relatively strong moveset early on in rock slide / bulldoze / acrobatics (if you're lucky) / filler (mine's psychic) so it can dish out good amounts of damage. The thing holding it back though is that it just doesn't clean out any gyms. I thought it would help in Grant's gym but Amaura is pretty bulky and Tyrunt just destroys it with Bite. Even if you over-level it for Korrina to get Psychic, it's sp.attack stat is too weak to hurt anything. It can't really do much against any other gym either, I'm nearly up to Wulfric where I think it's rock-STAB should help. Flamethrower should definitely be used for his Abomasnow and Avalugg though. Looking ahead to the E4 and I'm thinking I'll only use him against Malva who he should do well against (watch out for shadow ball from Chandelure) but looks bad against the rest...
tl;dr Solrock has been really good against Team Flare and random trainers, and it being in the fast experience group has meant it has been one of my highest level mons (if not the highest), I haven't even given it the lucky egg once because of Acrobatics. I think D-tier is fine where you have itbut idk just coz I like it, it could maybe go C
tl;dr Solrock has been really good against Team Flare and random trainers, and it being in the fast experience group has meant it has been one of my highest level mons (if not the highest), I haven't even given it the lucky egg once because of Acrobatics. I think D-tier is fine where you have it
Wait, what does Luvdisc have to do with Steelix? Is it for the heart scales to teach it the elemental fangs?
It does learn Psychic, but that comes ridiculously late (Pokemon Village, Surf+Waterfall) and i decided not to use it. The moves I mentioned before were the ones i kept.
The trade Steelix was a monster, it was so useful for the Rock Gym, Fairy Gym, Electric Gym, Ice Gym, and Wikstrom and parts of Drasna's team. Good Attack coupled with that sexy defense stat, and a nice movepool (you can have bulldoze for rock gym if you stopped at lumiose to buy it earlier). C-tier or above IMO
EDIT: For above poster, you need a Luvdisc for this particular trade, which can be caught in the same city its traded (Cyllage?) with an Old Rod, which you can get at Ambrette Aquarium
I totally forgot about the in-game trade Steelix.
You can trade a Luvdisc for a Steelix (level 20) in Cyllage City. This means it comes with Gyro Ball/Autotmize/Stealth Rock/Rage and can learn the Rock Tomb TM from the second gym.
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