Oh dammit I forgot about that part. could still work though.
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Pokemon Combination Discussion
- Thread starter Fantasty
- Start date
Would Focus Sash protect Machamp of all those multiple attacks at once?
It should only work against the first attack.
Erm...No...
LOL TEH BATTLE SIMULATOR!!1!!11!!
Machamp used Protect!
Foe Tyranitar used Earthquake!
Machamp protected itself!
Foe Metagross used Meteor Mash!
Machamp protected itself!
NEXT TURN:
Tyranitar used Earthquake!
Machamp fainted!
OR:
Machamp used Protect!
But it failed!
Tyranitar used Earthquake!
Machamp fainted!
Point taken, but this doesn't take away that in some cases, like Electivire + Gyarados, you don't have the option of using either one of those attacks. Electric + Ground is, as far as I know, quite a rare attacking combination.
Aside from that, using Earthquake while a Gyarados is out remains extremely dangerous, as you are allowing your opponent to stay in and get a free Dragon Dance up and running while you do basically nothing. Then again, using Thunderbolt is almost just as risky with Electivire being a potential switch-in, but this only works in your advantage: Your opponent will have to make a decision, and if he makes the wrong one, it can easily cost him the battle.
Back to the actual thread itself: just like Roy said, this thread isn't meant to be for 2 vs 2 discussion, it's about the standard 1 vs 1 battles, with the main idea being that when 2 of your pokemon are cooperating in a very solid way, you can easily switch between the two of them to avoid taking super effective damage. It has no use to put two pokemon who cover each other weaknesses very well together in a double battle, because the opponent would simply attack whichever one is weak to their attacks. And I think I made it perfectly clear with my initial post that this thread really isn't about 2 vs 2 battling at all, at least, the examples I gave with the introduction should indicate that.
Some additional things that should be kept in mind:
Pokemon that are both weak to a single type from a standard type combination (such as the previously posted Gliscor + Empoleon) aren't the best combinations possible, as you can't optimally switch between the two of them: a lot of pokemon still hit both of them with super effective damage. This way a main reason why I decided not to post Torterra + Heatran as an example, as the one is weak to Ice and the other to Water, both of which are commonly used together on Water pokemon.
It would come in handy if the pokemon you're building a combination around either resists Stealth Rock or only receive neutral damage from it (at max), as you don't want yourself to get into trouble when switching in and out.
The idea of Weezing and Spiritomb together sounded pretty nice.
Things that should also be considered are a Ghost pokemon and a Dark pokemon together, because as we all know thanks to Spiritomb and Sableye: Dark and Ghost together have no single weakness. This makes me think Umbreon and Dusknoir could effectively be used together, with one of them being focused on Def and the other on SpDef. My own preference would go to a physical-based Dusknoir and a special-based Umbreon, as Umbreon's only weaknesses are mostly physical ones (Fighting and Bug).
Dusknoir also has Will-O-Wisp to even further boost its physical defensive abilities, and it can help Umbreon when you're facing something that might carry a random physical attack (like many special sweepers nowadays pack Focus Punch).
Just one hint though Fantasty. Like with Boltbeam, the Fighting/Ghost attacking combo is also fairly sought after, as nothing in the game resists it. Anything with this combo can hit Umbreon and Dusknoir super-effectively.
This is particularly a threat on PorygonZ, as Nasty Plot raises Special Attack to sky-high levels and should normally carry HP Fighting and Shadow Ball. Of course, in your case, it would just use Tri-Attack to hurt Umbreon, and possibly KO with Life Orb.
This is particularly a threat on PorygonZ, as Nasty Plot raises Special Attack to sky-high levels and should normally carry HP Fighting and Shadow Ball. Of course, in your case, it would just use Tri-Attack to hurt Umbreon, and possibly KO with Life Orb.
I've always liked the Celebi/Heatran combo, and the only type of attacks that the two both take regular damage from is Rock; though that is an admittedley common attacking type, with a fair bit of prediction, they can ruin pokemon that enjoy running Rock moves with correct type matches and careful manipulation. Heatran's huge ground (and slightly less deadly fighting) weakness is easily absorbed and recovered/leech seeded off by Celebi, and Celebi's huge Bug, and admittedley more minor Fire, Ice, Flying, Ghost and Dark (it has more, of course, but those are the most common) weaknesses are resisted entirely by Heatran.
Additionally, Psychic and Grass STAB coupled with Fire STAB is very hard to resist, and can usually hit supereffective on most pokemon types, or at the very least hit for neutral damage. I'm not sure how one would build their team around this specific combination, but perhaps a Cleric or SubSeed Celebi could be used with a more offense oriented Choice Scarf Heatran build?
Additionally, Psychic and Grass STAB coupled with Fire STAB is very hard to resist, and can usually hit supereffective on most pokemon types, or at the very least hit for neutral damage. I'm not sure how one would build their team around this specific combination, but perhaps a Cleric or SubSeed Celebi could be used with a more offense oriented Choice Scarf Heatran build?
A bit of a contradiction here, Treedweller. You say that Fire, Grass and Psychic is hard to resist, but half of your argument is Heatran, who does exactly that. Decent idea, though, just watch out for Heracross and other Heatran, as both can easily OHKO both your pokemon with good prediction.
Ah, that's a good point, but Heatran can also pack moves beyond his Fire STAB, including Earth Power. If used in conjunction with a Choice Scarf and proper prediction, Heatran can actually take down other Heatrans, though it's a bit of a risk... I suppose putting a Gliscor on the team would help with Heracross, but the team would have to be constructed carefully.
Good point, I can't believe I overlooked that.
In theory, Gengar with the moveset Substitute/Hypnosis/Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt and the standard Choice Band Tyranitar have enormous synergy as an offensive duo. They cover each other's weaknesses extremely well, with Gengar immune to Ground and Fighting and 4x resistant to Bug, and Tyranitar immune to Psychic and resistant to Ghost and Dark. This combination is able to trounce any attempt at stalling and get Tyranitar in play very easily, with the physical walls Cresselia and Skarmory both being thoroughly trounced by both members. Conquering Special walls is more complicated but is in fact Tyranitar's gateway. The key is for Gengar to set up a Substitute while the opponent switches to Blissey/Regice/Crunch Snorlax. Regice and Blissey will not use Thunder Wave on a Substitute, and Snorlax will not Body Slam a Gengar regardless, allowing Tyranitar to switch in without fear of paralysis. Cresselia, who may give Tyranitar some trouble with Grass Knot, will not use Grass Knot or Thunder Wave on a Gengar's Substitute, and also gives Tyranitar a free switchin, but it's not like Cresselia will switch into Gengar anyway. Earthquake Snorlax will not switch into Gengar regardless. Hypnosis on Gengar is also a plus and may give Tyranitar a chance early in the game to cause havoc, though it may be replaced by Focus Blast to manage Heatran better.
In regards to team based strategies, ive seen some very good electivire based teams with 3 or more electric weak pokemon, and abusing the fact that you have electivire to prevent your opponent using electric attacks. I think it was something like;
Electivire lead, this is to abuse motor drive, or rather, prevent electric attacks
Gyarados
Starmie for spinning
Skarmory
Swampert or Vaporeon for support and bulkiness
Tail glow Manaphy for lategame sweep
As you can see, its actually very hard to get rid of this team without an electric attack, and if you do you power up 'vire. Obviously its not bulletproof.
Electivire lead, this is to abuse motor drive, or rather, prevent electric attacks
Gyarados
Starmie for spinning
Skarmory
Swampert or Vaporeon for support and bulkiness
Tail glow Manaphy for lategame sweep
As you can see, its actually very hard to get rid of this team without an electric attack, and if you do you power up 'vire. Obviously its not bulletproof.
This team screams out Kingdra weak. A Swift Swim Kingdra with Surf/HP Electric/Rain Dance/Draco Meteor can walk all over this team. I fail to see the counter. Manaphy can be EV'd to survive HP Electric followed by Draco Meteor, but that is unlikely given it is a Tail Glow sweep variant. Any opinion on this would be welcome.
EDIT: Just realised Vaporeon could take a few hits, but what it can do back is fairly minimal, and has no quick recovery.
Kingdra is hardly a regular sight in OU play.
Kingdra's HP Electric isn't really all that threatening. You forget that Kingdra's Sp ATK stat is rather middle of the roadness.
You also forget that hp electric is potentially going to give electivire a speed boost, did you read the idea of the team? Its for electivire to force the opponent against using electric attacks by showing its face early. And Kingdra isnt exactly a threat to Vire or Tail glow manaphy.
On the whole though, its a gimmick.
On the whole though, its a gimmick.
It doesn't matter. After a Rain Dance, 317 Sp Atk is sufficient to 2HKO Electivire, Swampert and Skarmory with Surf, 2HKO Gyarados with HP Electric, and OHKO Starmie with Draco Meteor. Give it a Life Orb, and most of those 2HKOs turn into OHKOs.
Also, akayfortyseven, Kingdra outruns Electivire in the rain even after the Motor Drive boost.
That sounds pretty good, and I've used that in ADV. It worked pretty good for me. I like Gyara/TTar although it's not great, it works fairly well. Gyara resists Fighting, Bug, Steel, and Water. Some of TTars weaknesses. Grass isn't very common, and Gyara lols at Ground attacks.
I think ttar/gar is more effective in DP than it was in adv. In adv, I know I was able to cover that combo fairly effectively (well, I still can, but I don't play often), but I don't know what I would do for it now, considering both physical crunch and physical pursuit.
Although this is a more offensive combination, I sorta like cresselia+life orb user (ie. garchomp). You can attack (almost) recklessly for the first part of the battle, and when you don't need cress anymore, reflect/light screen (preferably with light clay), and lunar dance to the (previously dead) garchomp, then clean up the remains.
Although this is a more offensive combination, I sorta like cresselia+life orb user (ie. garchomp). You can attack (almost) recklessly for the first part of the battle, and when you don't need cress anymore, reflect/light screen (preferably with light clay), and lunar dance to the (previously dead) garchomp, then clean up the remains.