Pokemon Day Presents 2024 - Pokemon LZA 2025

[R_N]

Prism Tower is way too modern (the blueprint aesthetic trending towards a futuristic aesthetic specifically too) for me to believe this is that far in the past.
It feels more like recent-memory type deal if it is, and I think "changing the current town to an even more lively one" is about as on the table.

 

[Band]

From what I remember ORAS not having it period and BDSP needing outfits and hats to match was hated even more than what SV did

I don't remember ORAS not having it being a huge deal but then again I didn't frequent forums nearly as much and that was excused for some since it was a remake. In any case, no customization = bad choice

 

[Nickeljorn]

I don't remember ORAS not having it being a huge deal but then again I didn't frequent forums nearly as much and that was excused for some since it was a remake. In any case, no customization = bad choice

I also guess that since XY was the only game with customization at the time, most people were unsure if it would be a permanent thing in all non-remake games after that point. But then again I was in elementary school at the time, what would I know about what people on Smogon and other Pokemon message boards were saying/thinking?

 

[R_N]

I also guess that since XY was the only game with customization at the time, most people were unsure if it would be a permanent thing in all non-remake games after that point. But then again I was in elementary school at the time, what would I know about what people on Smogon and other Pokemon message boards were saying/thinking?

they thought it was stupid ORAS didn't have it, grumbling at the idea it'd be locked to XY and were glad when it became a mainstay in Alola

Nobody really cared about it in Let's Go, mostly because everyone is too annoyed at everything else in Let's Go. (It did have Pikachu/Eevee customization though)

 

[Esserise]

I don't remember ORAS not having it being a huge deal but then again I didn't frequent forums nearly as much and that was excused for some since it was a remake.

I remember people being pretty annoyed by it due to the rationale that the devs gave in an interview:

> “In terms of the customization of the trainer, that was really kind of a special thing for the Kalos region, which featured this kind of motif of France and really focused on this beauty and fashion aspect, which is why it was a prominent feature in that game. For this game, we’re focusing on adventuring elements, so we don’t have the actual free customization of the trainer, but you’ll see the items you use throughout the game visually represented; for example, when you’re underwater, you’ll have this little mouthpiece that lets you breathe. So there’s some cool stuff for how your trainer changes clothes and puts on accessories throughout the game.”

I admit I was very much one of the annoyed, haha.

 

[pika pal]

Here's my crackpot theory: Battle Bond becomes a way to transform Greninja, but going forward it turns it into "Mega" Greninja which is legally-distinct Ash Greninja in terms of design at least. The retcon now becomes "Bond/Mega Phenomena are different versions of the same thing, you can do it but you don't get Ash's version"

The trade off then becomes working with the mediocre Base (non-Protean) Greninja to get a KO and transform as before, vs losing your item slot for immediate access as a traditional Mega plays.

 

[Bakugames]

I assume the piplup/snivy speculation are for if the starters get megas and not regional forms, since they can't really outfrench piplup or snivy lol.

I'd much rather we get new regional starters and then megas for the kalos ones, because its the best of both worlds to me. I don't think its a pattern, but imo starters should get things together, so if we get 3 different region starters and then each gets a mega, the other two in their respective trio being left in the dust would annoy me too much. Its not like hisuian starters where they're already a separate thing, an empoleon is an empoleon.

However, considering how recent plza seems to be, I find it unlikely we'll get starter forms. I think kalos starters with megas are the most likely, considering theyve been a sore point about xy's mega implementation for years

 

[Zetalz]

Dunno if this has been mentioned yet since this thread is moving so fast but I think it's really cute that the release year for Z-A is also the 10th anniversary of the year the original sequels to XY were supposed to release. Would be even more cute if they gave it the same Oct 12th release date as XY aswell, though I highly doubt it since I doubt TPCI has the self-control to wait that long.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

The battle system they used in PLA is a commonly used system in other JRPGs, most notably Final Fantasy X and Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth.

I see. I haven't played either of these two games. Most other JRPGs I have played either use a turn-based system like Pokémon, or a more action-oriented system. I guess the closest to the system in Arceus would be the ATB system used in some older Final Fantasy games (I have played V and VI), but it is still pretty different.

It's just a take on the usual turn based system but the time discretization is made more realistic. It's neither better nor worse, it's just different.

I disagree. I find the system in Arceus to be much worse since it turns every battle into a luck-based revenge kill fest. It removes pretty much all strategy from battles, which is my favorite thing about the battles in Pokémon. Thus, it made battles unenjoyable for me, which is a big negative as battles are my favorite thing in Pokémon.

As a fan of the Fragile Speedster archetype, I always loved this system because in the traditional turn based system, Fragile Speedster fighters have to resort to become a support unit.

When I played Arceus, I also felt that fragile speedsters were the best kind of Pokémon. Because if you don't get to move first, you will likely lose, making slow Pokémon useless. And defensive Pokémon were also pretty useless since every move does so damn much damage, it felt like pretty much everything was a 2HKO at worst. However, I have found that fragile speedsters can be pretty good in regular Pokémon games as well, but it mostly depends on the circumstances of the battle.

I have to say, though, the execution of the battle system in PLA isn't really good, especially the way they calculate the turn order is very exploitable. The omission of abilities also didn't help, but if they're bringing back Mega Evolution, I don't see why they won't also bring back abilities. PLA is also their first trial of this battle system. I'm sure they'll improve on it.

Totally agree on this. Regarding turn order, I recently found out that there's a way to exploit it and get an infinite amount of turns in a row:

The way turn order is calculated also makes it pointless to display it on the screen since it can change at any time. I have many problems with the battle system in Arceus, the biggest one is that your opponent can sometimes attack even before you get to make your move, which is honestly my least favorite mechanic in the entire series. Because of this, I really hope they won't have this system in Z-A. I think there are ways to improve the battle system in Pokémon, I'm just not a fan of how it was done in Arceus, it felt like a big change for the worse.

Totally agree on Abilities, I hope they will be back. The same goes for hold items, for that matter. If there are no hold items, I wonder how they will handle the Mega stones? Will they just be in your bag, like in LGP/E?

There was another thing I wanted to say about the release date of the game. I'm very happy that the game will be released next year, since that means I don't need to get a new Pokémon game this year! I can continue with all the other Switch games I have planned to play... I said 16 a few days ago, but after thinking about it a bit, there is one more game I want to make a short revisit in, so it has increased to 17. Hopefully I can get all of them done this year.

I have seen a lot of discussions about potential starters, and personally, I'm not sure what to expect, or what I want to see. The Kalos starters, or a mixed trio like in Arceus... either is fine to me.

 

[DrrT]

The Zygarde Cells are going to be the wisps equivalent aren't they?

I have to admit it would feel organic for what is worth, but I'm not looking forward to it.

 

[Germaniac]

I see. I haven't played either of these two games. Most other JRPGs I have played either use a turn-based system like Pokémon, or a more action-oriented system. I guess the closest to the system in Arceus would be the ATB system used in some older Final Fantasy games (I have played V and VI), but it is still pretty different.

CTB (how Final Fantasy X calls its battle system) is a natural evolution of ATB. The difference is you don't have to wait for the bars to fill up, it basically skips time to the point when the next bar is filled up. Also, you can see the (expected) order of upcoming turns.

I disagree. I find the system in Arceus to be much worse since it turns every battle into a luck-based revenge kill fest. It removes pretty much all strategy from battles, which is my favorite thing about the battles in Pokémon. Thus, it made battles unenjoyable for me, which is a big negative as battles are my favorite thing in Pokémon.

This is, imo, a consequence of the poor execution. Keep in mind that the classic Pokemon battle system had dozens of years for them to fine-tune into the battle system we know now. Their execution in Pokemon Red & Blue wasn't really good, either.

 

[Mad Ram]

I'd think a Smogon thread won't exactly be a good representation on the fandom's view of the Legends battle system. As much as this is supposed to be the casual section, this is still a forum based on competitive battling, and Legends' battle system is not really something good for competition compared to the main battle system. Not really because it's luck based though or lacks strategy. It really isn't, at least not anymore than the main games with trainer AI. I just recommend following some simple advice.

Spoiler

But it is something that I think works more for a single player experience more than a competitive battling environment if only because reliably getting off extra turns is very powerful. It's sleep/freeze on steroids.

 

[R_N]

Even as a casual experience I didn't find LA's battle system very good. The turn order system can work, I've played games with that and generally like them, it just didn't feel very fulfilling or interesting and often just kind of annoying. It made Battles feel like a punishment (& honestly I felt like that was the point).

If they want to take another go at it they'll need a lot of changes to really make it work. Granted, they'd need al ot of changes anyway I can't see us not having abilities this time, we'll probably get items, can't see the Style system returning, I doubt we'll have the same tendency for 2-3v1s...at that point may as well just make a new battle system again.

 

[Bakugames]

i think ABT would be really fun. honestly if every legends game had a new battle system thatd be fun as hell. having one main series where you stick everything experimental and then you bring what works into the other is a fun system, which could work if they're really spacing out the launches a bit more

 

[Ironmage]

It's worth remembering that most other RPGs that use similar systems are very asymmetric when you compare player and enemy stats. Given that Pokemon is at base symmetric, there's no guarantee those systems will work well in a Pokemon game without stat kludges.

 

[Eriorguez]

Arceus punished you by battling. It also punished you for playing well, as you WILL be revenge killed. To say nothing of how meaningless stats get, with a low damage roll from an Alakazam being comparable to a high damage roll from an WEEDLE, at the same level and using the same special attack.

Nah, the battle system of Arceus was bad.

And, honestly, I dreaded going back to it to evolve Stantlers. SV is just... more enjoyable to navigate around. Arceus just has such a huge ammount of the open world/survival/crafting system plague that videogames have as of late that it detracted from the Pokemon experience.

Goddammit I am tired of crafting systems and resource management in fucking everything. That's why I find the Switch Zelda games inferior to the first 4 3D ones.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Dunno if this has been mentioned yet since this thread is moving so fast but I think it's really cute that the release year for Z-A is also the 10th anniversary of the year the original sequels to XY were supposed to release. Would be even more cute if they gave it the same Oct 12th release date as XY aswell, though I highly doubt it since I doubt TPCI has the self-control to wait that long.

Honestly considering the game is clearly a latter half of 2025 release with this whole reveal being only a half-step above "The sequel to Breath of the Wild is now in development" they should've dumped this trailer on XY's 10th anniversary

 

[Coronis]

What would it be used for? Most of the save bonuses from LA were for BDSP, but there is likely no mainline Kalos game (or a mainline game in any other region) coming out this year. Though depending on when in 2025 it comes out, we could have a mainline game with a November 2025 release date revealed at that point.

Uh no I meant how L:A had multiple save file bonuses from other switch titles. e.g Festival Masks from Lets Go, Shaymin from SwSh or Darkrai from BDSP.

They scaled it back in SV to only accessories but it wouldn’t surprise me if they brought it back for older less available Mythicals in a revisited/reimagined region. e.g This game could have a Diancie quest as a bonus for a SwSh save file, a Hoopa quest as a bonus for a L:A save file and a Volcanion quest as a bonus for a SV save file.

 

[BP]

I am of the belief that the legends game will take place in the past just like legends Arc did.

1. The paper says "Urban development Plan: Lumoise city" In an older style of paper.
2. Its a legends game. Legends are legends because they are stories that have been around for generations
3. No the initial Tron look does not mean its taking place in the present. To have that be the only evidence it takes place in the future is ridicoulous.

I haven't read anyone else's posts so idk why people are saying it takes place the future yet. I will do that now

 

[pika pal]

It's worth remembering that most other RPGs that use similar systems are very asymmetric when you compare player and enemy stats. Given that Pokemon is at base symmetric, there's no guarantee those systems will work well in a Pokemon game without stat kludges.

I am a fan of PLA and tolerate what I experienced of the battle system, but part of that may be because I'm so used to the one-shot breeze of the recent mainline games and LA's own battles not comprising the majority of its gameplay loop.

The most significant difference I can name off the bat is that most RPGs with this system are not 1v1 arrangements. FFX you have 3 characters vs however many enemies (which can range from 1 to 4-5 themselves), and switching them around is a free mechanic, such as tagging your White Mage out for your Thief or Samurai when you don't need buffs or to get your health back. This alongside the symmetrical battle design.

This leads to a number of considerations you can't do with the same battle system in LA

• Balancing what in your team is based on Support/Healing vs dealing the damage out. Any turn you do not progress against the opponent costs alot more of your action economy as a result
• Design moves or buffs around manipulating the turn order specifically (Agile/Strong style are catch-all for every action), since delaying/jumping ahead of the enemy allows for infinites when there's only one to juggle instead of multiple turns.
• Working dedicated support players into the team. PLA is infamous for battles being a trade-fest, when in most RPG's, a boss that one-shots you without proper team building isn't unheardof or unreasonable. The issue is that your party members getting their face kicked in should be something you work to prevent, not respond to.

In this way, the LA battle system adds itself to my infamous rant about the Mainline games underutilizing Double/Triple Battles, despite it not even having the #1 reason of preparing for Doubles-VGC. Here this stubbornness actively hampers the single player for its own sake in that respect.

 

[Wishy]

I honestly think the "the entire game is within Lumiose City" bit is misleading but I suppose they could just make Lumiose really, really huge with a terrarium in each section to replace the various parks. This franchise loves relying on discrete forest/cave/water/desert/ice worlds, so.

In regards to starters, I think it depends where on the timeline we end up. The Hisui trio was explained as having to be brought in by the settlers, so if Lumiose is already established it doesn't seem necessary. It would be nice to get a remix trio and then the Kalos trio gifted or something along with new mega evolutions.

I do hope we get a mix of regional variants/fakes, new evolutions, and obviously, mega evolutions. I'm sure the focus will be on the later but I've enjoyed the spread of variants/evolutions in PLA and SV and I'd like to see that continue along with megas. Finally an opportunity to spread the mega-love beyond gens 1 and 3 though.

The exploration and catching mechanics of PLA were fantastic, battle system could use some refinement. I genuinely think PLZA could be a major homerun for this franchise.

Fairly certain that is a Krookodile with a baby Sandile right in front of it. Looks similar to other Krookodile we saw in the trailer


View attachment 609239

This looks like a horde encounter!

 

[Band]

I want to talk about the final "announcement" in the PLZA video about Mega Evolution coming back. I personally HIGHLY doubt they would tease us with the mega symbol and not give us new megas. It's the perfect (and maybe only) opportunity to bring back designs that never saw the light of day cough mega flygon cough and finally give the Kalos starters (aside from Greninja) the spotlight with flashy new mega forms, and same goes with other Kalos Pokemon. It's their generation! Why don't they get to shine with those new forms? Maybe it's copium but we deserve new megas after almost 10 years without them :sob:

 

[Eriorguez]

I mean, compare Indigo Disc's difficulty, or BDSP's postgame difficulty, with Volo. Volo is harder because, even if you are prepared, you WILL be trading 'mons with him before even getting to Giratina. It is not battle strategy if you beat something only to be revenge killed before being able to act.

Oh, and being prepared for Volo is pretty much "grab those legendaries you have had to catch!"


Hoping we get a few new megas in any case. Kalos starters, stuff like Pyroar and Florges... but also Froslass and Slowking, Kleavor... hell, Raichu would be great to get a Mega.

 

[TheMantyke]

Been seeing a lot of speculation online about the potential starters for the game, given the first legends had such a weird trio. While my heart pines deeply for mega meganium, I would also like to mention that LZA is under way less pressure to do something different for starters.

PLA immediately followed a game using the Gen 4 starters. LZA is not. Running back the same starter trio so soon after BDSP would have probably felt odd, and maybe even generate some confusion among parents as to which product is which given the same set of characters are advertising this game. LZA seemingly has breathing room and isn’t encumbered by this.

Kalos Starters are also otherwise not getting much spotlight if they’re denied the starter status. Having turtwig, chimchar, and piplup be background features in PLA felt fine there because we’d just seen them. Going back to Kalos and the original three aren’t given much emphasis feels a little weird. That said, I guess PLA was pretty damn weird in a lot of ways, so keeping up a new tradition of scattershot starters is something I’d also be happy to see.

Also Re: Ash-Greninja being in the game - I would bet money it shows up. When my old Pokemon league was still up and running while I was in college, Ash-Greninja was the coolest thing in the world to the kids we had. As embarrassing and pandering as it may seem to some parts of the fandom, it’s at least a fond memory to a bunch of others. I expect it back, especially after PLA took the time to make sure every Gen 4 Pokemon had perfect attendance.

 

[Wishy]

The team's logo being a galaxy reminded me of the alleged scrapped plot/content which was very paranormal and had Team Flare & AZ as aliens, along with Fairy types and Mega Stones also hailing from space. The extraterrestrial origin of Mega Stones was used in ORAS which retconned the rather weak explanation of the phenomenon in XY.

My biggest gripe with XY will always be how half baked the lore was. No human or legendary had any real purpose or motivations, and we got two pretty major mechanics introduced with basically no explanation. There is so much potential to expand on Team Flare (or a related but different team), the Mega phenomenon, the XYZ trio, AZ and the weapon, etc. Even Diantha and Sycamore could desperately use some greater character development.

Now I don't expect PLZA to be a XY rewrite but it would be nice if it could properly flesh out the region and its various phenomena & legends/myths, and do Kalos some justice after all these years. It's such a flavourless game.