Pokemon Gold 1997 Prototype discovered: Many scrapped pokemon designs within

churine

lunatic+
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jasmine's old sprite reminded me of something.

touhou aside, this shit is actually pretty damn cool. whats really interesting is that they were really pushing the whole idea of baby pokemon, but i guess gamefreak realized how useless a lot of them were and got rid of a lot of them. i also want to point out that what looks like hitmontop and its pre evolution (beta tyrogue) may have originally been their own evo family, as they look quite different (a lot more fluffier i suppose) than hitmonlee and hitmonchan in the beta, but quickly became their own family; which is why hitmontop may seem out of place compared to lee and chan. a lot of the other things have been pointed out in this thread, such as how pinsir evolution was likely reworked into heracross and made its own, and also farfetchd was gonna have an evolution, goddammit why did it get scrapped. also kind of interesting to see quagsire and sunflora exist but not their pre evos, perhaps their pre evos werent coded in the game yet?, along with lugia not existing yet.
 
Hmm. The Ditto evolution (the blob next to Skarmory on the sprite sheet) is really interesting. I tried using it on debug mode in the demo, and it's basically just a Ditto with better stats. I wonder if Gamefreak had anything more planned for it.
 
Hmm. The Ditto evolution (the blob next to Skarmory on the sprite sheet) is really interesting. I tried using it on debug mode in the demo, and it's basically just a Ditto with better stats. I wonder if Gamefreak had anything more planned for it.
By better stats you mean "Only Base 2 higher in everything over Ditto" since most of the Pokemon, including this one, were base 50 in everything since their actual stats weren't coded yet.
 
Oooh man, this is so rad. There should be a CAP project where they give these mons abilities/moves/stats and stuff so they can be used. It'd be rad for these guys all to actually be "legitimized" after all these years.
 
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Oooh man, this is so rad. There should be a CAP project where they give these mons abilities/moves/stats and stuff so they can be used. It'd be rad for these guys all to actually be "legitimized" after all these years.
Actually, I'm hoping that GF themselves would be the one to redesign them into future generation mon before the fans do, which may may them less inclined to do so. Especially on the unfortunately scrapped great designs such as the Fire starter.
 
Actually, I'm hoping that GF themselves would be the one to redesign them into future generation mon before the fans do, which may may them less inclined to do so. Especially on the unfortunately scrapped great designs such as the Fire starter.
Unfortunately I can see them purposely keeping them discarded. It's not like they haven't had opportunity to come back to them, over the years, and it just seems like one of those things where they put they arbitrarily put their foot down for one reason or another (wanting to do something different? pride? embarassment? some weird gamedev reasoning??)

Honestly it's pretty, ahhh, whats the word...serendipitous? that the manga showing scrapped gen 1 designs and the leaked prototype featuring all kinds of gen 1 connection goodness dropped alongside the reveal of the most bog standard return to kanto.
 
https://pastebin.com/7ufrQeTE

Don't think it's been posted yet, but here are the level-up movepools from the demo. There's some flavor to be gleaned about the completely dropped designs, but honestly I think my favorite tidbit from this is that Happi's (proto-Blissey) final level-up move, a prize gained at the distant level of 82, is Pain Split, a move that is almost always detrimental to use with it.
 
https://pastebin.com/7ufrQeTE

Don't think it's been posted yet, but here are the level-up movepools from the demo. There's some flavor to be gleaned about the completely dropped designs, but honestly I think my favorite tidbit from this is that Happi's (proto-Blissey) final level-up move, a prize gained at the distant level of 82, is Pain Split, a move that is almost always detrimental to use with it.
There's something else that weirds me out.

The only Pokemon that can learn Spikes by level-up in this beta is... Murkrow. MURKROW, of all things.
 

breh

強いだね
https://pastebin.com/7ufrQeTE

Don't think it's been posted yet, but here are the level-up movepools from the demo. There's some flavor to be gleaned about the completely dropped designs, but honestly I think my favorite tidbit from this is that Happi's (proto-Blissey) final level-up move, a prize gained at the distant level of 82, is Pain Split, a move that is almost always detrimental to use with it.
clearly to be used in double battles a generation later lol
 
https://pastebin.com/7ufrQeTE

Don't think it's been posted yet, but here are the level-up movepools from the demo. There's some flavor to be gleaned about the completely dropped designs, but honestly I think my favorite tidbit from this is that Happi's (proto-Blissey) final level-up move, a prize gained at the distant level of 82, is Pain Split, a move that is almost always detrimental to use with it.
Looks like baby Pokemon weren't conceptualized as having trimmed movepools yet.
ie: Pichu vs Pikachu in the beta
#172 Pichu
evolves @ 12 to Pikachu
1: Charm
3: Thundershock
6: Tail Whip
10: Thunder Wave
15: Quick Attack
21: Swift
28: Spark
36: Agility
45: Thunder

#25 Pikachu
1: Growl
5: Thundershock
10: Tail Whip
16: Thunder Wave
23: Quick Attack
31: Swift
40: Spark
50: Agility
61: Thunder

Contrast with the final version
Pichu
1: Thundershock
1: Charm
6: Tail Whip
8: Thunder Wave
11: Sweet Kiss

Pikachu (also note: longer to learn things, does not learn Swift or Spark and instead gets Double Team, Slam, Light Screen)
1: Thundershock
1: Growl
6: Tail Whip
8: Thunder Wave
11: Quick Attack
15: Double Team
20: Slam
26: Thunderbolt
33: Agility
41: Thunder
50: Light Screen

It's still crazy to me that Umbreon was going to be Poison. It even gets Sludge Bomb (albeit at a high level) naturally, how nice. And Acid Armor would have been a cool boon.
Snubbull...has no psychic type moves. Gen 2 in a nut shell.
Sadly a number of the new guys didn't get much work done on them. Twinz & Girafarig only have 3 moves with no real flavor beyond double kick, for example.
 
I think GF can cash in by releasing some of those as "Event-Exclusive Forme" in future games or third party games. I think people would be hyped for a poison type eeveelution despite being just Umbreon with Poison Typing and perhaps a color swap.
I doubt we will ever get the seel of doom.
 

Conni

katharsis
Screen Shot 2018-06-03 at 6.43.06 PM.png

This early version of Politoed looks very cute, it's my favorite out of all the early versions of Gen 2 Pokemon that are actually in the game.
A lot of these early versions usually are either lacking something or got something in comparison to their final appearance, for example Politoed had a more rounded head and an antenna-like structure on its head with a more defined body rather than this version of Politoed which is more frog-looking and a bit simpler. I feel like this is a common trend for the early versions of Gen 2 Pokemon like I said, I'd give more examples but this is probably the best example maybe.

Screen Shot 2018-06-03 at 6.52.39 PM.png

Some of the unreleased prototype Pokemon that didn't make it actually look kind of cool, so I'm not sure what the reasoning was, but I'm pretty curious as to why. But on the contrary, about the Water-type starter that will later be replaced by Totodile's line, personally I think it really shares similarities to Dragonair and Dragonite a bit and it may be a bit too similar in some aspects so thats why I'm pretty happy this one was replaced by the cool water croc we all know and love. I feel like instead of just being serpents and fish and that sort, Water-types in general could've be more creative in the early gens so thats why I think bringing in Totodile instead was a better choice.

I have more opinions but these two are my most notable ones I guess.
 
Very interesting! The passion of the people on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Good job guys.

94BB5045-31D3-4166-BEEB-B43847524C54.jpeg

I find this baby-Jynx so funny. It's like a mini-Beethoven. Glad they went with Smoochum instead...

7D18542F-65DE-4DD5-9443-A2B474392D29.jpeg

This not-Mantine is something cool they haven't touched since: Angel and Demon inspired designs. The closest we got to that is... Xerneas and Yveltal? It could be something new to revisit in the future.
 
View attachment 119698
This early version of Politoed looks very cute, it's my favorite out of all the early versions of Gen 2 Pokemon that are actually in the game.
A lot of these early versions usually are either lacking something or got something in comparison to their final appearance, for example Politoed had a more rounded head and an antenna-like structure on its head with a more defined body rather than this version of Politoed which is more frog-looking and a bit simpler. I feel like this is a common trend for the early versions of Gen 2 Pokemon like I said, I'd give more examples but this is probably the best example maybe.
I like proto-Politoed better than the final design because this version has a lot more in common with the rest of the line, with the spiral pattern on its stomach and eyes on top of its head, whereas Politoed is basically a generic cartoon frog. This one looks much more like "what if Poliwhirl metamorphosed into an adult frog" (as opposed to the neotonous... punch-tadpole that is Poliwrath).
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
I like proto-Politoed better than the final design because this version has a lot more in common with the rest of the line, with the spiral pattern on its stomach and eyes on top of its head, whereas Politoed is basically a generic cartoon frog. This one looks much more like "what if Poliwhirl metamorphosed into an adult frog" (as opposed to the neotonous... punch-tadpole that is Poliwrath).

Still has a swirl... I think this looks more well designed than the blob that is proto poli
 
I pointed this out on a YouTube video, but it looks like many of the back sprites for the Gen 1 Pokemon are based on their sprites from Blue. Kakuna even still has its arms out. I'm wondering if it's possible that these back sprites were intended for Blue at some point. Here are a few comparisons (Blue sprites are on the left, demo G/S backs on the right):




It looks very off model, but this back sprite is hilarious.


They literally recycled the exact same small face for each sprite, minus the missing pupil on the back one.


 
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While looking up the sprites for the other thread, I saw this backsprite for squirtle


Squirtle never had its tail shown in the gen 1 backsprites, but this sure looks like it would flow better into Wartortle's fluffy tail, doesn't it? It's interesting, since by this point squirtle was shown with the fur/fluff-less tail. Maybe they were still considering going with it?
 
https://pastebin.com/7ufrQeTE

Don't think it's been posted yet, but here are the level-up movepools from the demo. There's some flavor to be gleaned about the completely dropped designs, but honestly I think my favorite tidbit from this is that Happi's (proto-Blissey) final level-up move, a prize gained at the distant level of 82, is Pain Split, a move that is almost always detrimental to use with it.
These are interesting, a couple of them are clearly unfinished, but they mostly seem finalized. Kurstraw/Pangshi's movepool looked weird at first glance, but a second look made it seem a lot more interesting: The moves at 16, 35, 71, and 100 are different, with the level up moves at 35 and 71 for Kurstraw being two Psychic attacks while Pangshi gets two Normal attacks then. And then you have the attacks at 16 and 100 (Destiny Bond/Proto-Curse & Splash/Confuse Ray) seeming more flavorful than anything.
 
I pointed this out on a YouTube video, but it looks like many of the back sprites for the Gen 1 Pokemon are based on their sprites from Blue. Kakuna even still has its arms out. I'm wondering if it's possible that these back sprites were intended for Blue at some point. Here are a few comparisons (Blue sprites are on the left, demo G/S backs on the right):
between seeing this, posting about the nonsense sprites in the demo and now, i looked into the development of these games and I think I have a theory behind this: these aren't Blue sprites repurposed or used as placeholders for GS, they're GS sprites repurposed for Blue.
Development on the sequels started shortly after RG came out which would be 1996. At some point, a deal was struck for CoroCoro to give away Blue version that same year (DID YOU KNOW? Blue version was not sold to the public until AFTER yellow version)
They wanted new sprites for Blue, but, with Pokemon not being the huge success it was, it would make way more sense to repurpose sprites you were already working (or already worked) on. I mean it was just a magazine give away, you know? Why make more work for yourself beyond the minimum needed. Probably didn't import back sprites because they weren't as needed or something.
By the time the demo was coming together, I can see them decide to slowly phase out the sprites and make new ones. Probably around the point where Pokemon became a bigger phenomenon in Japan.
 
between seeing this, posting about the nonsense sprites in the demo and now, i looked into the development of these games and I think I have a theory behind this: these aren't Blue sprites repurposed or used as placeholders for GS, they're GS sprites repurposed for Blue.
Development on the sequels started shortly after RG came out which would be 1996. At some point, a deal was struck for CoroCoro to give away Blue version that same year (DID YOU KNOW? Blue version was not sold to the public until AFTER yellow version)
They wanted new sprites for Blue, but, with Pokemon not being the huge success it was, it would make way more sense to repurpose sprites you were already working (or already worked) on. I mean it was just a magazine give away, you know? Why make more work for yourself beyond the minimum needed. Probably didn't import back sprites because they weren't as needed or something.
By the time the demo was coming together, I can see them decide to slowly phase out the sprites and make new ones. Probably around the point where Pokemon became a bigger phenomenon in Japan.
I'd go more with the fact that, given how dramatically different this beta is from the finished game, the game was just going to be made in the same engine as Red and Green instead of an improved version.

The sprites? Probably placeholders until they would be replaced. Perhaps if there's some video of the gameplay that was showcased back in 1997 and we don't see any of the recycled sprites, then there's the answer - we weren't supposed to see them in the first place. Kinda like the Sun and Moon demo where Game Freak wised up and replaced every Pokemon that was not going to be seen with Pikachu (though they left the Dex sprites...)

Or perhaps just laziness. It's not like we've not seen Game Freak recycle sprites across multiple generations.
 
Hoothoot and Hoohoo (Noctowl) learn a move called Megaphone at level 21 and 26, respectively. Has anyone used it yet, and what does it do?

Edit: Speaking of these two, they were going to be able to learn Moonlight at levels 28 and 35, respectively, which would have been neat, and another move called Stalker as their last level up move at levels 45 and 59, respectively. What does that do also?
 
Hoothoot and Hoohoo (Noctowl) learn a move called Megaphone at level 21 and 26, respectively. Has anyone used it yet, and what does it do?

Edit: Speaking of these two, they were going to be able to learn Moonlight at levels 28 and 35, respectively, which would have been neat, and another move called Stalker as their last level up move at levels 45 and 59, respectively. What does that do also?
Stalker was the original Mean Look. You can see it in all kinds of movepools. Psychic type & 10 PP but otherwise the exact same effect; according to tcrf Mean Look straight up replaced its spot in the code.

Megaphone lowered the opponent's special attack and dealt no damage, 85% accuracy. Pretty funny to contrast with Confide, a move we woudln't get until gen 6, which is not just 100% accurate it bypasses all accuracy checks completely and any pokemon that gets TMs can learn it.
 
Might want to add, Megaphone was replaced by Megahorn in the final game (both apparently are written/pronounced the same in Japan). Which would you rather have, a status move or an actually powerful Bug-type attacking move?
 
Wow, they were really trying to make a Noctowl a usable wall, huh? Reflect, Curse, Hypnosis, a move that lowers SpAtk, and Moonlight? I mean, it was still Noctowl, but it’s cool they were trying that at least.
 

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