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SPOILERS! Pokemon Legends: Arceus *Leak Thread*
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
There's none because there is no way to obtain the "real" stats for these pokemon, due to Legends not following the regular statistics (both as far as actual stats, and movesets)
We do have actual stats, though.
The way LA calculates stats is different, but the base stat system is the same . if you were to apply those stats to the "regular" titles there's no issues.
movesets, as people helpfully pointed out to me earlier when I misread the datadump, are the bigger issue, since they really only have what they have in LA (a wonky if truncated list) and Ursaluna & Kleavor would be able to steal from Ursaring & Scyther. Full, modern, fleshed out movesets aren't really available (especially for poor enamorus lol).
Long body, sure but long limbs to go with a long body are just going to get in the way of animals trying to squeeze into narrow passageways.
Look, stouts are also known for hypnotic displays to disarm prey for their eventual pounce. Given how much of a befuddled response it’s proportions and design are giving humans, a Buneary is going to be totally preoccupied on what the hell is going on with the predator in front of it up until the moment it gets maimed. Being a weird lanky Sid the Sloth looking asshole is part of its hunting strategy!
R_N please try to avoid any mystery dungeon Isekai-ing or you might be boned given this theory and how many questions this dude brought to mind.
R_N please try to avoid any mystery dungeon Isekai-ing or you might be boned given this theory and how many questions this dude brought to mind.
"I Questioned A Design And Now I'm A Rabbit Being Hunted For Fun By A Long Tsundere Weasel For 20 Hours Of Game Time?!", shortened to rabeldere in discussion circlesLook, stouts are also known for hypnotic displays to disarm prey for their eventual pounce. Given how much of a befuddled response it’s proportions and design are giving humans, a Buneary is going to be totally preoccupied on what the hell is going on with the predator in front of it up until the moment it gets maimed. Being a weird lanky Sid the Sloth looking asshole is part of its hunting strategy!
R_N please try to avoid any mystery dungeon Isekai-ing or you might be boned given this theory and how many questions this dude brought to mind.
I personally like Sneasler just fine. I don't really see it basically being long Sneasel as a problem. Sometimes the simple designs just work, at least IMO.
...granted, it being a Poison-type didn't exactly hurt, either.
...granted, it being a Poison-type didn't exactly hurt, either.
So unless there's some ancestors I've just completely overlooked, I think the only Sinnoh characters who don't have any ancestor are:
Barry/Palmer: By far the biggest standout considering Barry's our rival and like the 3rd most important person in the original games.
Roark/Byron: Considering the "mining" you do all over the map you'd think there'd be one of these but...
Maylene: I thought maybe she'd turn up at the Dojo but I guess not.
Wake: I suppose this tracks somewhat, he's not from Sinnoh and they might've wanted to avoid saying where he was from.
Fantina: Likewise (also to avoid the localization stuff where she'd probably be Unovan in some places but Kalosian elsewhere, etc).
Aaron, Lucian: Until Melli sent out Skuntank I honestly thought he might've been Lucian's ancestor but that didn't turn out at all. Kinda surprised the guard out front with the Wurmple questline didnt get a unique model and be the Aaron ancestor tbh.
Looker: Well...not really a Sinnoh character per say, but still. At least Ingo kinda works with the whole "Faller" weirdness (kind of surprised the game didnt have an ultra beast in it).
Thorton, Argenta, Dahlia (also Caitlin): Darach is, for whatever reason, the only one who gets one. Maybe because Charon got an ancestor handling the shop and they wanted another Platinum rep...?
Honestly even without Riddler, Barry being missing would have had me thinking "DLC is coming". To me it'd be like not having a Cyrus or Cynthia ancestor.
Also is Palina' anyone in the series' ancestor because even more than Calaba she drives me mad. There's something about her that's so familiar, but I can't put my finger on it.
Barry/Palmer: By far the biggest standout considering Barry's our rival and like the 3rd most important person in the original games.
Roark/Byron: Considering the "mining" you do all over the map you'd think there'd be one of these but...
Maylene: I thought maybe she'd turn up at the Dojo but I guess not.
Wake: I suppose this tracks somewhat, he's not from Sinnoh and they might've wanted to avoid saying where he was from.
Fantina: Likewise (also to avoid the localization stuff where she'd probably be Unovan in some places but Kalosian elsewhere, etc).
Aaron, Lucian: Until Melli sent out Skuntank I honestly thought he might've been Lucian's ancestor but that didn't turn out at all. Kinda surprised the guard out front with the Wurmple questline didnt get a unique model and be the Aaron ancestor tbh.
Looker: Well...not really a Sinnoh character per say, but still. At least Ingo kinda works with the whole "Faller" weirdness (kind of surprised the game didnt have an ultra beast in it).
Thorton, Argenta, Dahlia (also Caitlin): Darach is, for whatever reason, the only one who gets one. Maybe because Charon got an ancestor handling the shop and they wanted another Platinum rep...?
Honestly even without Riddler, Barry being missing would have had me thinking "DLC is coming". To me it'd be like not having a Cyrus or Cynthia ancestor.
Also is Palina' anyone in the series' ancestor because even more than Calaba she drives me mad. There's something about her that's so familiar, but I can't put my finger on it.
My guess is that Melli is Fantina's ancestor by virtue of Fantina's JP name being Melissa and Hearthome being around the Coronet Highlands.
The "Melissa" connection is irrelevant since Meli's japanese name is "Tsubaki"
I bring it up since Mai gets her English name from Marley's Japanese name.
If it helps, Tsubaki means Camellia, which are associated dying with grace, samurai, and unpretending excellence. (Specifically red ones, see also Tsubaki from Blazblue and Tsubaki from Fire Emblem Fates) Considering Melli's pretty pretentious, the name fits.
You know, I don’t think we’re meant to connect every character in PLA to a existing character. Personally, I think like the idea that everyone has to be an ancestor to someone else we know just feels really forced and unnatural. Like, surely there’s going to be some faces in this time period that we haven’t seen.
The sense I get is that the characters who are supposed to be ancestral will have some characteristics that are just blatantly similar to their descendants. As a quick rundown:
All that being said, that leaves Laventon, Adaman, Irida, Iscan, Palina, Calaba, and Melli as characters that don’t really have any glaring similarities to existing people, at least in my view. Which I think makes sense - the new professors, two major plot characters who are interlinked to each other, and then a couple of Wardens. It’s a decent little pool of standouts to show that not everyone is an ancestor to someone, and likewise, not every Sinnoh character is going to have an ancestor that we see. That kind of situation would just “shrink” the world, I feel like. But having a mix feels more organic.
(Also, I know some people link Laventon to Leon and Hop, but I see too many differences myself. Yes they’re all brown-skinned Galarians, but Laventon doesn’t have their signature gold eyes, and his concept art reveals that his hair is black. Honestly I think you could make a stronger argument for Laventon being related to Rose/Peony, especially with the Copperajah mention in the Pokédex, but personally I still don’t think that’s what they were going for.)
The sense I get is that the characters who are supposed to be ancestral will have some characteristics that are just blatantly similar to their descendants. As a quick rundown:
- Mai: Basically *is* Marley, just in different clothes
- Arezu: Same as above, but for Mars
- Kamado: Is just Rowan with darker hair
- Cyllene: Same hair color, same sunken eyes, no brows, pale skin, stern demeanor, and her name is a dead giveaway
- Colza: Gardenia with a beard, runs a farm (which is evocative of Grass types)
- Rye: Wears a wide-brimmed hat in the same fashion as Riley, has the black hair styled in a side-fringe, uses a Lucario, also Rye-ley
- Charm: Same hairstyle as Agatha/Bertha, uses a Rhydon and a Gengar to gesture at the connection
- Clover: Candice in different clothes
- Coin: Saturn as a girl
- Volo/Cogita: Both have Cynthia’s eye-obscuring fringe, Volo is blond and Cogita wears the teardrop pendant, they both have an interest in/connection to Hisuian mythology
- Beni: Same hairstyle as Wally (with streaks of green; presumably his hair has grayed with age) and uses Gallade and Gardevoir
- Ginter: Same seated posture as Volkner in his artwork, and his hair is the same style on the sides
- Pesselle: Wears her hair in the same style as Mira, and it’s the same color
- Sabi: Same as above but for Cheryl
- Lian: Hair is poofy and brown like Clay’s; they wear the same hat and are both miners
- Anthe: Has black hair with a big gold stripe like Darach
- Choy: Same hairstyle and color as Charon (also Charon was all about money in the end, so Choy running a shop felt like a nod to that to me)
- Sanqua: Same hairstyle and color as Karen
- Gaeric: Same hairline and brow shape as Wulfric, and Wulfric’s mustache comes down into two points on each side similar to Gaeric’s dashes of hair on his chin; also they both love the cold and have a connection to Avalugg
- Zisu: She admittedly feels like the biggest departure from her root character to me, but she has red hair that turns poofy at the end which seems similar to Flint, but really I think there’s supposed to be a gag here because her hair is actually styled like Lopunny’s ears, and which red-haired Sinnoh character is infamous for inexplicably using a Lopunny?
- Then of course you have the Archie / Maxie / Alder ancestor portraits framed up in the Clan settlements and people made those connections real quick because of the identical characteristics.
All that being said, that leaves Laventon, Adaman, Irida, Iscan, Palina, Calaba, and Melli as characters that don’t really have any glaring similarities to existing people, at least in my view. Which I think makes sense - the new professors, two major plot characters who are interlinked to each other, and then a couple of Wardens. It’s a decent little pool of standouts to show that not everyone is an ancestor to someone, and likewise, not every Sinnoh character is going to have an ancestor that we see. That kind of situation would just “shrink” the world, I feel like. But having a mix feels more organic.
(Also, I know some people link Laventon to Leon and Hop, but I see too many differences myself. Yes they’re all brown-skinned Galarians, but Laventon doesn’t have their signature gold eyes, and his concept art reveals that his hair is black. Honestly I think you could make a stronger argument for Laventon being related to Rose/Peony, especially with the Copperajah mention in the Pokédex, but personally I still don’t think that’s what they were going for.)
Laventon reminds me most of Hapu, honestly. I don't think it actually makes sense from a worldbuilding perspective, but he's got darker skin, a purple cloth head covering, and his name sounds like lavender- a shade of purple (Poni Island being named for the Hawaiian word for purple and it being indicative of Tapu Fini's color scheme).
I'm probably completely off-base but that's where my mind went.
I'm probably completely off-base but that's where my mind went.
Yeah ancestors generally fall into 4 categories:
Honestly if Meli didn't have Skuntank I would probably not think anything more about him. But he does and its like, that's Jupiter's you can't just go around using that and not be related, that's illegal.
- They're the spitting image. Mai may not have a pechant for gothic lolita fashion or use speedy Pokemon but one look at her and you know she's related to Marley. Arezu may be associated with Lilligant (and....hair cutting) but she's clearly Mars and her names both reference Mars (I think she's the only one with a name that works like this, weirdly)
- They retain a key couple of traits. We know the gardener guy is Gardenia's ancestor because that's literally her hair style (also, gardening). Clay's a adult, Lian's a kid & uses a goomy, but Lian has the iconic cowboy hat and like mining. Gaelric is absolutely shredded while Wulfric is fat, but they actually have the same weird quasi pompadour and love of ice types (the similarities in their names is a localization choice)
- They use the same ace. Since Agatha & Bertha dont have a ton of shared traits beyond and Charm's hair isn't immediately obvious (it IS similar, but its a common color and the rest of her outfit draws away from it so its not as obvious as Saturn/Coin), but we know she's their ancestor since they gave her Rhydon & Gengar.
- Ingo.
Honestly if Meli didn't have Skuntank I would probably not think anything more about him. But he does and its like, that's Jupiter's you can't just go around using that and not be related, that's illegal.
Considering Hop ends up studying to be a Professor by working with Sonia, it's not too farfetched. Also, Mai is Wyrdeer's Warden i.e. letting the player travel faster on foot.
What's the deal with Volo and Cogita, anyway? More specifically Cogita (I have a rough understanding of Volo's deal, him being one of the final bosses and connected to Giratina and all that). None of the playthroughs I've been watching have reached Cogita yet, and it seems super weird for there to be two Cynthia ancestors, especially if they're treated as unrelated in-game.
And Tuli, everyone forgets Tuli.
Edit: I think I found my favorite explanation.
Edit: I think I found my favorite explanation.
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At first glace, Tuli looks like Greta from Emerald's Battle Frontier.
There are some strange theories surrounding Palina right now.
- The leading theory is that Palina is ancestor to the gym leader Burgh, if anyone. I think this is mainly an argument from hair.
- Iscan and Palina are star-crossed lovers a la Shakespeare. Ergo, by their powers combined, their descendant is... the trial captain Ilima.
- Also because of her thing with Iscan, her descendant must be the Water-type(!) gym leaders Marlon and/or Nessa.
- There is at least one person on this earth arguing Palina looks like the concept art of a young gym leader Opal.
- I'm advancing this as my pet theory. It's Blaine. Their names are alike, they carry eyewear, they haunt volcanoes, and their aces are Arcanine.
Having played the game, I can definitely say those two are related. Volo is the person who introduces the player to Cogita, and Cogita is the only one who recognizes his off-key behavior prior to the big reveal. There are multiple signs they are both scions of the Celestica people who preceded the Diamond and Pearl Clans—the most obvious of which is that they're the only two NPCs in the game who know the name 'Arceus.'
The only questions are how they are related and which of them is Cynthia's ancestor.
You could make strong arguments for either one or both. Volo has the champion team, the bond with Giratina, and the curiosity to muck about in ancient ruins. He is essentially Cynthia "gone wrong," and he suspiciously vows he will meet his maker even if its takes hundreds of years. Meanwhile Cogita has the black dress, the wealth of lore, and the general wisdom/conscience that Volo is lacking. Ironically, she is the only person he truly respects.
I think the player is supposed to read them as mother-son or grandmother-grandson, making them both ancestors of Cynthia, but it's never quite spelled out. For her part, Cogita only seems to regard Volo with disdain. Volo being an unwanted child would explain a lot of his existential angst. Hell, 'unwanted child' is exactly how he describes his pal Giratina. And... in light of Cogita's history with Enamorus... it may be even more awkward than that.
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For anyone thinknig that Marlon has natural dark skin...
He's very tanned, but not fully.
He's very tanned, but not fully.
Also Cogita literally says this explicitly in the post game, that by helping us with the Red Chain she finished her people's wishes/duty/etc and that her people were the ones who met Arceus to begin with (& presumably built the temple, etc)
