Question: Is it too early to set this as my profile picture, or should I wait until after every region gets the game?
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SPOILERS! Pokemon Legends: Arceus *Leak Thread*
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Question: Is it too early to set this as my profile picture, or should I wait until after every region gets the game?
Not gonna guesstimate a tier for any of these but a few thoughts on the starters. I will use their original form's icons to denote sections.
They really did the best Alolan starter dirty... again. It's stats definitely aren't very pretty, with a very minimal physical power buff in exchange for now Speed tying with its original form's two compatriots. It's movepool could definitely give it at least some kind of niche somewhere though, since it gets all of Rowlet's and Dartrix's moves for itself, and with Sword and Shield allowing for Egg Moves to be transferred without breeding to Mons of the same species, H-Decidueye will get some interesting options from its pre-evolutions, such as Shadow Sneak, Knock Off, and Defog. Doesn't look too stellar, but could make something work.
This one feels like an almost perfect middle ground between Chandelure and Blacephalon in terms of stat allocation - it has some serviceable bulk and a Speed stat that falls in the middle of the two, but it's significantly weaker than both offensively. However, having effectively a combination of Flamethrower and Hex can make even bulkier Mons that don't resist Ghost risky switch-ins, and while it doesn't get anything particularly special from its pre-evolutions like Decidueye will, it could still inherit the few coverage moves that base Typhlosion does get, namely Focus Blast, which would alone be a huge boost to its viability by virtue of not turning fights against teams with Tyranitar into a 6v5 1/2.
I really like Unovan Samurott as is. Unfortunately, its mostly unremarkable movepool further held back by modern-day middling offenses and a terrible Speed stat with no way to boost it sentenced it to be eternally overshadowed by the myriad of other offensive Water-type that existed even just in Unova.
However, this precious little edgelord (bias) took Samurott's stat basis and optimized it as best as it could without going too extreme. Its offenses have been swapped to keep the whole line physically biased mixed attackers instead of the script getting flipped at the third stage, and its bulk has been reduced slightly to gain an actually usable Speed stat of 85. Additionally, it got good options in the form of retaining Megahorn, gaining Psycho Cut and Poison Jab, and obviously newly acquired Dark coverage. Additionally, it has other cool options on the other side of the attacking spectrum new and old, like Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, and Scald. It could also gain Superpower like Unovan Samurott does upon transfer to Sword and Shield, although Hisuian Samurott probably won't be able to make use of Sacred Sword unless Smeargle is also added, which is the only way to pass it to the Oshawott line in USUM. While it'll never replace Greninja as the superior Water/Dark starter, it's definitely going to be very capable on its own, even discounting whatever movepool additions it gets just by virtue of being sent to Sword and Shield.
They really did the best Alolan starter dirty... again. It's stats definitely aren't very pretty, with a very minimal physical power buff in exchange for now Speed tying with its original form's two compatriots. It's movepool could definitely give it at least some kind of niche somewhere though, since it gets all of Rowlet's and Dartrix's moves for itself, and with Sword and Shield allowing for Egg Moves to be transferred without breeding to Mons of the same species, H-Decidueye will get some interesting options from its pre-evolutions, such as Shadow Sneak, Knock Off, and Defog. Doesn't look too stellar, but could make something work.
This one feels like an almost perfect middle ground between Chandelure and Blacephalon in terms of stat allocation - it has some serviceable bulk and a Speed stat that falls in the middle of the two, but it's significantly weaker than both offensively. However, having effectively a combination of Flamethrower and Hex can make even bulkier Mons that don't resist Ghost risky switch-ins, and while it doesn't get anything particularly special from its pre-evolutions like Decidueye will, it could still inherit the few coverage moves that base Typhlosion does get, namely Focus Blast, which would alone be a huge boost to its viability by virtue of not turning fights against teams with Tyranitar into a 6v5 1/2.
I really like Unovan Samurott as is. Unfortunately, its mostly unremarkable movepool further held back by modern-day middling offenses and a terrible Speed stat with no way to boost it sentenced it to be eternally overshadowed by the myriad of other offensive Water-type that existed even just in Unova.
However, this precious little edgelord (bias) took Samurott's stat basis and optimized it as best as it could without going too extreme. Its offenses have been swapped to keep the whole line physically biased mixed attackers instead of the script getting flipped at the third stage, and its bulk has been reduced slightly to gain an actually usable Speed stat of 85. Additionally, it got good options in the form of retaining Megahorn, gaining Psycho Cut and Poison Jab, and obviously newly acquired Dark coverage. Additionally, it has other cool options on the other side of the attacking spectrum new and old, like Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, and Scald. It could also gain Superpower like Unovan Samurott does upon transfer to Sword and Shield, although Hisuian Samurott probably won't be able to make use of Sacred Sword unless Smeargle is also added, which is the only way to pass it to the Oshawott line in USUM. While it'll never replace Greninja as the superior Water/Dark starter, it's definitely going to be very capable on its own, even discounting whatever movepool additions it gets just by virtue of being sent to Sword and Shield.
From the fact the DLC moves are listed but have different values, I am guessing the "legends arceus development fork" occured shortly after DLC began in earnest, but before anything was finalized.
Why are there WIP elements? Because they had decided who would be in it, but were still ironing out what they want to be there
Why are the USUM learnsets there, but not the BDSP learnsets? Because BDSP used a different fork (or possibly a different pipeline entirely, since it was by a different company they might've just been supplied with the basic SWSH data + USUM learnesets)
Why are the DLC moves different? Because they were forked at a point in development when they were balancing what they'd do, but would be irrelevant to Legends Arceus
This is just theory but it could be that the Dragon Energy Slowking and other oddities represents an earlier/development order of the DLC moves that are reading move names based on current index numbers. Unfortunately this doesn't cover the tutor moves but it's still interesting how things might have changed in development.
Notes: (from https://gist.githubusercontent.com/...f884af1c26d69b78f6d1171abbbc85f/gistfile1.txt)
Slowking has Dragon Energy (Eerie Spell)
Urshifu-0 has Freezing Glare (Wicked Blow) and Urshifu-1 has Fiery Wrath (Surging Strikes). Neither have their elemental moves (Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch).
Moltres and Zapdos have a placeholder Splash at level 45, while Articuno has Shell Side Arm (Freezing Glare). Maybe this was a point where they were in the middle of making the bird moves.
Slowbro-2 has Thunder Cage (Shell Side Arm)
Regidrago has Eerie Spell (Dragon Energy)
Regieleki has Dire Claw (Thunder Cage), maybe implying that Thunder Cage was in a slot beyond the final number of SWSH DLC moves.
The Calyrex formes have Glacial Lance and Astral Barrage as normal.
Zarude has Thunderous Kick (Jungle Healing).
Here's a table mapping these move IDs.
| Move IDs | FINAL | WIP? |
| 796 | Steel Beam | Steel Beam |
| 797 | Expanding Force | |
| 798 | Steel Roller | |
| 799 | Scale Shot | |
| 800 | Meteor Beam | |
| 801 | Shell Side Arm | Freezing Glare |
| 802 | Misty Explosion | |
| More IOA tutors.. | ||
| 816 | Jungle Healing | |
| 817 | Wicked Blow | |
| 818 | Surging Strikes | |
| 819 | Thunder Cage | Shell Side Arm |
| 820 | Dragon Energy | Eerie Spell |
| 821 | Freezing Glare | Wicked Blow |
| 822 | Fiery Wrath | Surging Strikes |
| 823 | Thunderous Kick | Jungle Healing |
| 824 | Glacial Lance | Glacial Lance |
| 825 | Astral Barrage | Astral Barrage |
| 826 | Eerie Spell | Dragon Energy |
| 827 | Dire Claw | Thunder Cage |
I guess it makes sense that Shell Side Arm and Eerie Spell would be next to each other in development. Also all the brand new mons' moves are neatly lined up at the end.
Interestingly there is one possible BDSP element that I noticed personally, the SecretPotion is renamed to Secret Medicine already in PLA. I don't know if it's actually used though and/or PLA just renamed it first and BDSP inherited that.
EDIT:
The birds have their learnset mostly fitting their type at this point but not exactly final, as they all still had Roost at this point.
Galarian Zapdos lost Roost for Quick Guard, Moltres lost Roost for After You, and Articuno traded Roost for Recover.
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Popular theory I heard about that is that it meant Detective Pikachu and a new Stadium game. But if it's meant to relate to the DLC, then I have no idea.
I mean if its DLC for PLA and one of the central characters doesnt have an ancestor in PLA, regardless of what the hint specifically meant, I'd still think they would show up tbh.
Zorark gets Torment and Disable as combo. If used right. If it only would learn a traping move and draining move like leach life... Weird they didnt add it more ice coverage? Generaly they could always add it perish song? It has Curse right and with U-turn as combo?
The game uses the word noble? Would it be noble and honorfull if the user could only use the same amount of pokemon like the oponents in trainer battles? Interesting if they implement that?
Time battles also would be nice. 5, 10, 15, 25 turns. Who has more pokemon with more hp left wins. Like in chess.
______
Generaly old status conditions should stay, like freeze could be caused after frostbite or more rare. Generaly would make frostibe be a unpredictable mix of either damage or paralysis 50% of chance occuring on a turn. It and the lesser sleep would make nice additions in main games like poison and badly poisoned.
The game uses the word noble? Would it be noble and honorfull if the user could only use the same amount of pokemon like the oponents in trainer battles? Interesting if they implement that?
Time battles also would be nice. 5, 10, 15, 25 turns. Who has more pokemon with more hp left wins. Like in chess.
______
Generaly old status conditions should stay, like freeze could be caused after frostbite or more rare. Generaly would make frostibe be a unpredictable mix of either damage or paralysis 50% of chance occuring on a turn. It and the lesser sleep would make nice additions in main games like poison and badly poisoned.
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???
No form of Zoroark learns Disable or Curse, and the 'legacy' moves, which Torment and U-Turn under, are just copy/pastes of regular Zoroark's moves. We don't yet know if H-Zoroark will have those legacy moves in whichever traditional games it ends up in. Our best hope is that the HOME update includes learnsets that aren't just copy/pastes of other mons' learnsets. (And even if the update does include these learnsets, they may still not be final---the learnsets datamined from HOME just ahead of the DLC looked like they gave Tapu Bulu grassy glide, for example, which didn't occur in the actual DLC update).
...I have said 'learnset' too many times in this post.
God I missed having Matleo posts in my life.
Ignore them. 90% of what they post is just deranged rambling and half-wishlisting about things two tangents removed from the topic of the thread.
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Whoah, don't get my hopes up like that. An official Pokemon battling game focusing on more cinematic battles with access to a national dex is something I've wanted for a long time. Especially since the purge was announced back before SwSh.
The flags on the learnset data, even the new updated one by Kaphotics, are pretty wacky. Contact moves are only marked for a few moves when definitely more would qualify, Wave Crash has a thaws user flag when Raging Fury doesn't, Headlong Rush is a punch move.... and sure enough, none of those flags have any effect on the battle system in PLA. Definitely look forward to some new values for those in a HOME dump or something.
The most curious new flag for me was the wake up from drowsy one
That's a fun one I could see being carried forward even if it's just for something niche like getting out of Yawn
The most curious new flag for me was the wake up from drowsy one
That's a fun one I could see being carried forward even if it's just for something niche like getting out of Yawn
Electricity helping people wake up...makes sense.
Woah, what? I have trouble believing they added a new tag just for a side game. Are they going to have Drowsiness and Frostbite replace Sleep and Freeze in Gen 9? I hoped for Frostbite but I wasn't entirely sure if they'd do it. I'd be thrilled about the two worst status problems being changed if it weren't for Rest being nerfed, but be careful what you wish for. I know it's too early to say for sure, so Worldie, feel free to say you told me so if it's back to Sleep and Freeze in Gen 9.
If Drowsieness doesn't replace Sleep, an interesting change would be it Sleep stayed the same but those moves woke you up if you used them with Sleep Talk. Maybe even if you just tried to use them while asleep.
It's even already established in game. Electric Terrain prevents Sleep.
I can fully believe they'd add a new tag just for a side game when said side game has a bunch of new things very specific to it.
They had to touch all the moves anyway to account for styles, the new turn system and so on, so adding a flag was probably the least hardest part.
That's fair.
Let me rephrase what I meant. I can't believe they added a tag that sounds enough like one that could be in a main game that it made me hope more for a change I was hoping for. Now that I put it that way, I feel like I was being an overexcited speculator jumping at anything even remotely possible...
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If that’s the case, I hope burns get a version of thaw tag so the symmetry is the same. Or better just scrap it for Frostbite so that it isn’t underpowered and Pokemon could use such a strategy of giving yourself frostbite to prevent burns.
I guess GF had to change the index order so that the new moves could be split up and then neatly added with each of the DLCs, without the risk of new signature moves getting datamined ahead of time.
The fact that the WIP index apparently had an additional move ID is fascinating. A scrapped signature move for one of the new pokémon/forms in the DLC? Or an IoA tutor move that got scrapped? Or just WIP placeholder/buffer slot just in case another move was to be added? Sadly, there's likely no way of knowing.