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Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Count Bleck
- Start date
Psyshock for sure. iirc its also a bit faster than Psychic (don’t quote me on that)
Built 18 or so alphas today of things I felt would benefit from the increased attack range. After my post the other night, I began thinking about what moves benefit the most. I came up with the following:
With that in mind, today I built a mix of megas and non-megas that relied on a lot of these. I had about ~60 to go on the alpha wielder title and got it in like 3 battles by running a team of 3 of the alphas I built. These were:
Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Curse
Glaceon @ Never-Melt Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Blizzard
- Calm Mind
Delphox @ Delphoxite
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
(not sure how to add the sprites)
I liked this team a lot. I found that Hippo is really strong against anything physical. Curse walls Mega Metagross badly even with Ice Punch. I do find that Dig over EQ might be worthwhile bc he's slow and needs to gap close but the whole point of being alpha is the EQ. I could see a Xerneas/Hippo/Skarmory-M build being super strong. The other alphas I had built were Garchomp, Excadrill-M, Charizard-MX, Gyarados, Skarmory-M, Tyranitar, Metagross-M, Talonflame, Machamp, Camerupt, Emboar-M, Scolipede-M, Feraligatr, Aggron and Venusaur.
With that in mind, today I built a mix of megas and non-megas that relied on a lot of these. I had about ~60 to go on the alpha wielder title and got it in like 3 battles by running a team of 3 of the alphas I built. These were:
Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Curse
Glaceon @ Never-Melt Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Blizzard
- Calm Mind
Delphox @ Delphoxite
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
(not sure how to add the sprites)
I liked this team a lot. I found that Hippo is really strong against anything physical. Curse walls Mega Metagross badly even with Ice Punch. I do find that Dig over EQ might be worthwhile bc he's slow and needs to gap close but the whole point of being alpha is the EQ. I could see a Xerneas/Hippo/Skarmory-M build being super strong. The other alphas I had built were Garchomp, Excadrill-M, Charizard-MX, Gyarados, Skarmory-M, Tyranitar, Metagross-M, Talonflame, Machamp, Camerupt, Emboar-M, Scolipede-M, Feraligatr, Aggron and Venusaur.
Drampa @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Beam
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Earth Power / Hyper Voice / Heat Wave
Behold; the most powerful Hyper Beam in the game. I'm trying to use Normal-types to get the Normal Pokemon title, and there's really only one way that I wanna do it. I wanna click a button. A button that kills things from far away. A button that gets me double or even triple kills. Draco Meteor is another long-range nuke with a big AoE, but it drops your SpA and takes a long time to cast, leaving you vulnerable to Dragons rushing you down. Earth Power is a nice way to snipe far-away targets, especially Chandelure and Gengar who are Normal-immune and weak to Ground. Hyper Voice is a secondary Normal STAB, and Heat Wave gives you something to hit Skarmory while your Hyper Beam is charging.
Is it good?
Since I need the Fairy title, too, but refuse to use Xerneas, I paired this Drampa with a dual-screens Babiri Berry Clefable:
Clefable @ Babiri Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
Light Screen + Mystical Fire is a great combo for neutering Xerneas and other SpA threats, with Moonblast even chipping in to sometimes drop SpA. I've had quite a few instances of Xerneas setting up Geo / CM, then I Mystical Fire to bring them to neutral, then Moonblast puts them at -1.
My last member was originally a Mega Froslass since I need the Ice and Ghost tites too:
Froslass-Mega (F) @ Froslassite
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
While Mega Froslass is incredibly underrated, and when ignored, just decimates whole lobbies (super effective coverage for like more than half the type chart lmao), it made my team pretty weak to Metagross. It's honestly really good on any other team comp besides this one. So, I've since swapped it out for Scizor, since I need the Bug title, too.
Scizor-Mega @ Rocky Helmet / Life Orb / Scizorite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Lunge
- Curse / Swords Dance
- Steel Wing
- Night Slash / Brick Break
Bug/Steel is pretty goated in this meta besides the 4x Fire-weakness, being a Steel-type not weak to Ground or Electric. Behind screens, this thing just doesn't die. Lunge is an incredibly-helpful move. It not only neuters Metagross, Garchomp, and other physical threats, but it teleports you to your target, closing the gap very fast. Steel Wing is its most consistent Steel STAB, as Iron Head kinda sucks. Night Slash gives you a super effective move for Metagross, Chandelure, and Delphox, and a neutral hit into Skarmory. Brick Break hits Excadrill for super effective and breaks Screens, but personally I prefer Night Slash's coverage.
Curse + Lunge + Rocky Helmet is an underrated combo for whittling physical mons down, especially Skarmory. Life Orb + Swords Dance for raw damage for a longer time without the Speed drop, especially when running another Mega. Mega Scizor doesn't seem that great compared to Life Orb, but one benefit it has is its much faster movement speed. It flies to its prey, closing the distance much faster than base form, and not having to worry about hitting the plus button is nice, too.
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^ I know you did mention Life Orb but I've been wondering is there ever a real reason to run Normal Gem over Life Orb in this game? Gem boosts one move 1.3x per respawn whereas Life Orb boosts all moves 1.3x and the recoil is neglible really in a FFA. If Gem was still 1.5x (or LO was lowered to 1.2x), I think Gem would be a lot more worth it. The only reason I could see for not running life orb is that you already have life orb on a different teammate.
So at this point, I've done everything else in this game, so it's time for me to get the kalos starter mega stones by playing this mode. That being said, I've never actually done competitive outside of showdown before so I'm not really sure about a couple things.
First of all, how does changing EVs work in this game? I know what items increase them, and I saw an NPC in the rust syndicate that sounded like they remove all your EVs. But how much of the items do you need to max out an EV? and how easy/hard is it to get more of those items? And also, how much do the EVs even matter to begin with? Since I don't need to reach Rank A or anything like that, I just need to get the exclusive mega stones (though I may play more if I really enjoy it)
Also what should I do for my team? Would just doing 2 strong members of my in game team + Xerneas be good enough? Or do I need to find a full competitive team? And if so, where do I even find a bunch of teams to begin with?
First of all, how does changing EVs work in this game? I know what items increase them, and I saw an NPC in the rust syndicate that sounded like they remove all your EVs. But how much of the items do you need to max out an EV? and how easy/hard is it to get more of those items? And also, how much do the EVs even matter to begin with? Since I don't need to reach Rank A or anything like that, I just need to get the exclusive mega stones (though I may play more if I really enjoy it)
Also what should I do for my team? Would just doing 2 strong members of my in game team + Xerneas be good enough? Or do I need to find a full competitive team? And if so, where do I even find a bunch of teams to begin with?
You can buy power items from Quasartico Inc. Berries can be bought from vendors to reduce EVs. If you want to get the best prizes, then yes, you will optimized Pokemon because people will be using optimized sets. That being said, this mode is very casual, so if you only want the Mega Stones, don’t worry too much about optimization.
Honestly I thought it was 1.5x this whole time…I forgot it was nerfed lmao. Then yea, LO it is.
wait wtf I got greninjite in one battle LMAO
Edit: Two battles for Delphoxite LMAO. I was worried I wouldn't be able to get it, and then got it in two battles.
Edit: Two battles for Delphoxite LMAO. I was worried I wouldn't be able to get it, and then got it in two battles.
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I know you got the stones in two games, but I'll answer anyway if you do decide to keep playing.
So beyond the power items for old-style EV training, the items that instantly boost EVs are the vitamins and the feathers. A pokemon can have 252 EVs in a single stat and 510 EVs total. the vitamins (protein etc) boost an EV by 10 and the feathers boost by 1. You usually want a 252/252/4 spread in terms of HP / Attack or SpAtk / Def or SpDef. So you either want 26 HP Up, 26 Protein/Calcium (or 25 + 2 feathers) and 1 Iron/Zinc (or 4 feathers). Feathers you pick up on the ground but you can buy the vitamins in the mart. You're pretty much about $250k per mon to optimize, plus a Modest or Adamant mint (20k up in Rouge sector 6) and you can also hyper train to boost their IVs to max with bottle caps at the dojo.
Typically the meta is Xerneas + something to counter Xerneas + something to be immune to ground moves. Consider the following:
Xerneas @ Expert Belt or Life Orb with Moonblast, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt and Geomancy. 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def. Modest.
Excadrill @ Excadrite with Iron Head, Drill Run, Earthquake and Swords Dance. 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def. Adamant.
Gyarados @ Wacan Berry (buyable in Rouge 6 or Magenta 6 I think) with Waterfall, Ice Fang, Bounce and Earthquake. 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef. Adamant.
That is pretty much the exact team I got to rank A with on day 1 of season 2. Gyarados and Excadrill can also be alphas to increase the range of their Earthquake/Drill Run/Waterfall. Alphas automatically come with 3 max IVs and also 252 built in HP EVs.
You can definitely get the mega stones without having a competitive team and probably even hit rank A although it'll get more challenging as you go further up. Of course, having a comp team makes it easier plus it increases your chance of winning which increases the rewards as they severely upped rewards this season. You can now get Johto balls and a ton of nuggets and bottle caps for placing well in each game when you're rank A. I have about 5m pokedollars just from playing ranked a few hours daily and selling the treasures plus like 10+ of each johto ball now.
Yes, extremely easy lol. Rank A is a bit of a grind but now there’s no way to actually lose points its honestly a matter of time.
26x vitamins will max out the EVs for a single stat. iirc they’re 10k each which would mean ~500k for a single Pokemon. Money is very easy to grind with Infinite Royal or Jacinthe in this game.
It’s 5k for each Vitamin, so it ends up being 260k, or 265k if you use the last vitamin on a defensive stat or something. It’s a pretty drastic change from it being the usual 10k in the main series.
Funnily enough Excadrill is one of the two playthrough team members I've been using. The other one I used was Meganium, since it was insanely good in-game, but unfortunately the free for all format + not starting with the ability to mega evolve weakens it a lot. Now that I have Delphoxite, I swapped it out for that, just because I love Delphox. but I'll keep Gyarados in mind for if I want to really use the best team.
charizard x is super underrated. rarely see it and sd set with tpunch + stabs hits basically everything. been running it with screens metal coat metagross with bp + heavy slam and quick claw geomancy xern. only downside is without mega it does feel lacklustre but once u reach “mid game” feels like (hot take) the best setup mon.
MegaPhox is also really strong so if you wanted to use that give it 252HP/252SpA/4Def and Heat Wave, Psychic/Psyshock, Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam and Calm Mind/Nasty Plot, then use the same excadrill set but give it focus sash and make it 252 Spe instead of HP, and Xerneas.
Almost done grinding the Infinite Royale title, at 52 wins. I only need 3 more after it; the first attacker one, the comeback victory one and the flawless survivor one - the latter two seem rather impossible so hopefully they'll lower the requirements on those when season 3 starts. Curious to see what else they'll add bc they did actually add some titles in S2.
Quick aside: you folks absolutely should not be spending money on Vitamins in this game unless you’re going for something pinpoint like a no HP Yveltal or you truly have absolutely no use for your cash (consider a turbo controller shiny fossil hunt??). EV training is beyond insanely easy in this game:
This is without getting more specific too. If you want to train attack even faster, you can earthquake+ the whole wall of spinarak in area 4. If you want just special attack, and you’re not traumatized by them, you can assault the pride of Pyroar in area 17 with a big surf+.
It’s really easy and fast. It also gives these EVs to all of your Pokemon, so you can spend your excess mega shard on duplicate power items, equip to multiple Pokemon, and EV train entire teams of Pokemon like lightning.
I will be forever pissed at IVs and I still wish EVs were a far more transparent system, but they made EV training like the easiest it’s been since the Poke Pelago / Pokemon Jobs time skip glitches.
- Buy a Power Weight and a Power Lens / Bracer, maybe a belt or band too if you want.
- Equip your Weight or attack Power item
- Fly to area 10 and walk in.
- Kill one of the slowpokes at the entrance, then kill the other as fast as possible with a low cast move
- While they’re dizzy, before they poof away, fly back to area 10. New slowpoke have spawned!
- Repeat until your stat is maxed, then switch to your other power item. Round out your last stat with feathers, a vitamin, or your power belt / band.
This is without getting more specific too. If you want to train attack even faster, you can earthquake+ the whole wall of spinarak in area 4. If you want just special attack, and you’re not traumatized by them, you can assault the pride of Pyroar in area 17 with a big surf+.
It’s really easy and fast. It also gives these EVs to all of your Pokemon, so you can spend your excess mega shard on duplicate power items, equip to multiple Pokemon, and EV train entire teams of Pokemon like lightning.
I will be forever pissed at IVs and I still wish EVs were a far more transparent system, but they made EV training like the easiest it’s been since the Poke Pelago / Pokemon Jobs time skip glitches.
Did you count win/lose manually, or are there any ways to check W/L?View attachment 786315
Got the title for 100 first place finishes woohoo! There's also a title for total matches played that caps at 300 I haven't hit yet, but it's counting I have 115 left until then. 100 first places out of 185 is a positive K/D which surprised me because I had no idea I was coming in first this often lol. Mentally I have resigned to be fine not winning in this mode because like, it's four players. Ties are still a victory sure, but you're still fighting 3 people for that bag; you're going to lose. It's in the same mental space for me as Magic The Gathering Commander where I just want to do things and play well because that's intrinsically fun. I somehow failed at losing spectacularly.
Curious what you all are batting at right now if you can still check. I figure a lot of you are also batting really high since you're through a lot of the mental by-in by being on Smogon in the first place.
I've played way way more of Season 2 compared to Season 1. I can absolutely see the need for reprieve for others, but like, I lived through garchomp gen 4 and isle of armor bss; I'm used to dumb hyper-focused metagames and they don't really bother me. I've also been extremely boring lol. Normally when there's a new game out I like to rock something powerful yet a little off, but so far, I'm just a tier boy having too much fun with the really good pokemon.
Speaking of which, if you want a very cookie-cutter team to hop online with, here's what I've been using to a lot of success, and more importantly, a lot of fun!
Ampharos @ Shuca Berry
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
I thought I was Modest but I forgot the mint and ran Naive the entire time whoops.
-Thunderbolt
-Charge
-Reflect
-Light Screen
Oh this dude is so much fun. First you get to be a big chunky sheep tank at the start with the Shuca and screenss. Then, you get to snipe people like a family dog noticing a mcnuggest perilously close to the table edge. Charge-boosted Electric attacks demand respect or you're going to snipe a dork who dared to drop below 60% HP. Dip out if there are too many single ground-types in your area, or kite yourself closer to the xerneas to put the fear of god in that Garchomp. Great Pokemon and it warms my heart there's a game where Ampharos rules.
It's also a shiny alpha, which I think is supposed to be sub-optimal because of your larger hitbox, but it's a shiny alpha. I'm using the goddamn shiny alpha.
Skarmory @ Skarmorite
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4SpD
Adamant
-Swords Dance
-Drill Run
-Fly
-Brave Bird / Aerial Ace
Every attack where you charge forward like a lunatic and AOE what's ever in the way are so fun it's unreal. Skarmory is your lunatic #1. Build meter with Ampharos or Xerneas, or switch into it because you need to wall the very antsy Excadrill or Garchomp, and start slamming.
I'm not currently running Aerial Ace, but damn dude, I miss it. Low cast time moves in this game are so underrated. I'm a freak and was running Fly / Aerial Ace for a long while, but then everybody looked at me funny, so I switched to BB / Fly. BB / AA is so tempting, but I'm addicted to Fly's invincibility and homing, even if Skarmory doesn't care too much about dying immediately.
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
252 HP / it's plza dude
Modest
-Moonblast
-Dazzling Gleam
-Thunderbolt
-Geomancy
It's the big fella themself. Tried Screens Xern at the start, but that felt like you're riding. Geomancy three attacks feels like you're THRIVING. Went for double fairy stab because there are so many fairy week things that love to use switching and mega evolution's invincibilty frames. It's also just very nice to have an option with a ranged blast attack and a walk-up AOE thing. Plus move Dazzling Gleam rips so hard, it's very difficult to get away from for a lot of Pokemon, great for finishing things off. Thunderbolt > Focus Blast for me because of the neutral damage to fire and Thunderbolt's homing abilities, on top of picking off so many waters and Skarmory so easily. Quick Claw wins games with those quick geomancies and those sudden immediate attacks.
If you're really struggling with Xerneas, can't recommend using it enough. Started off the season as an Yveltal boy and this felt supressive. After a while, you learn Xerneas's limitations where it's hard to land your attacks if the target's moving, or just how much you need to lock into a brawl to kill things with your neutral attacks. Helps a lot playing with and against the thing.
By the math of doing almost 200 matches, I've burnt over 9 hours of my life the last 10 days playing this mode in the crevices between work and big life events almost impulsively. I'm going to go outside now and look for that cool red power up that lets that number in the left corner of my eyeballs go up really fast.
There are titles for both X amount of battles completed and X amount of battles won. Until you reach the Gold levels for both of those, you can keep track via them and seeing how many more times it takes to unlock the next level.
100 is the gold requirement for wins, and 300 for battles.
The Life Orb has always been a 1.3x boost.
I was referring to the Normal Gem.
I've gotten to Rank D pretty easily with a variety of teams, although I still kinda feel like I'm fumbling my way up the rankings. I still continue to have placements all over the place. Literally one battle I'll win 1st place easily with 8 or 9 kills, then the next battle I'll get 4th place with only 1 kill. I find it very frustrating because I just don't know if I'm getting any better at this or not. It's also tough for me to tell if I get fainted because of poor strategy, poor execution, getting sniped, or just bad luck. So I'm always unsure how to improve or what to do differently. I'm enjoying the format more than when I started, but it's frustrating when I feel like my time invested is not really increasing my mastery of the game. I continue to feel this Xerneas-centric metagame is an unfun piece of shit, and so I'm trying to keep an open mind until next season unfolds and hopefully there will be more variety.
My most-used team makeup is:
Garchomp / Chandelure @ Life Orb
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
Metagross / Skarmory @ Mega Stone
Garchomp has been my most-used lead, although I have played some with lead Chandelure as well. I think I like lead Garchomp more simply because I play it more straightforward, so it's a little more comfortable for me in all the chaos of Battle Club. But I don't think I'm playing any of the mons optimally, so I dunno.
I tend to use Xerneas least of all, mostly because as soon as I bring it on the field, it is a magnet for everyone's Xern counter, so they make a beeline for me. And those are simply the ones I can see. The number of times Xern gets sniped outta nowhere is off the charts. But carrying a Xerneas is practically table stakes in this metagame, and it always scares off the rabid Garchomps breathing down my neck all the time. It's also a wicked pleasure to snipe electric-weak stuff from afar, with Thunderbolt's awesome range and homing ability.
I can't really decide whether I prefer Meta or Skarm as my Mega Steelmon. But whichever I carry, I tend to use my Steelmon most in each battle. I love Skarmory because if MegaSkarm gets an SD in, it's gonna kill lots of stuff, and I'm surprised how many things stay in in front of Skarm as it decimates them. I also enjoy all the i-frames Skarm gets with going Mega and using Fly. But I hate Skarm because it gets sniped so often by the previously mentioned Xerneas Thunderbolt. Metagross and its prodigous coverage (I run Iron Head / EQ / IPunch / TPunch) makes it a swiss army knife in any battle. I love that Metagross at least has A CHANCE against almost anything; I hate that it really only has AN ADVANTAGE against one thing -- Xerneas. Also it's slow as molasses which makes it hard to maneuver amongst the chaos.
I don't know if I'm going to continue to grind up to Rank A or not. Looking at the rewards given, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. Also the scarcity of Bottle Caps in the game makes it hard to build and experiment with different mons, which takes a lot of my enjoyment out of playing. The same team against basically the same opponents battle after battle after battle... ugh. If I want that, I'll just go battle Jacinthe or something similarly mindless lol ;-)
My most-used team makeup is:
Garchomp / Chandelure @ Life Orb
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
Metagross / Skarmory @ Mega Stone
Garchomp has been my most-used lead, although I have played some with lead Chandelure as well. I think I like lead Garchomp more simply because I play it more straightforward, so it's a little more comfortable for me in all the chaos of Battle Club. But I don't think I'm playing any of the mons optimally, so I dunno.
I tend to use Xerneas least of all, mostly because as soon as I bring it on the field, it is a magnet for everyone's Xern counter, so they make a beeline for me. And those are simply the ones I can see. The number of times Xern gets sniped outta nowhere is off the charts. But carrying a Xerneas is practically table stakes in this metagame, and it always scares off the rabid Garchomps breathing down my neck all the time. It's also a wicked pleasure to snipe electric-weak stuff from afar, with Thunderbolt's awesome range and homing ability.
I can't really decide whether I prefer Meta or Skarm as my Mega Steelmon. But whichever I carry, I tend to use my Steelmon most in each battle. I love Skarmory because if MegaSkarm gets an SD in, it's gonna kill lots of stuff, and I'm surprised how many things stay in in front of Skarm as it decimates them. I also enjoy all the i-frames Skarm gets with going Mega and using Fly. But I hate Skarm because it gets sniped so often by the previously mentioned Xerneas Thunderbolt. Metagross and its prodigous coverage (I run Iron Head / EQ / IPunch / TPunch) makes it a swiss army knife in any battle. I love that Metagross at least has A CHANCE against almost anything; I hate that it really only has AN ADVANTAGE against one thing -- Xerneas. Also it's slow as molasses which makes it hard to maneuver amongst the chaos.
I don't know if I'm going to continue to grind up to Rank A or not. Looking at the rewards given, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. Also the scarcity of Bottle Caps in the game makes it hard to build and experiment with different mons, which takes a lot of my enjoyment out of playing. The same team against basically the same opponents battle after battle after battle... ugh. If I want that, I'll just go battle Jacinthe or something similarly mindless lol ;-)
It probably won't be. I assume season 3 is gonna be Zygarde and Mewtwo added but otherwise nothing else and season 4 is gonna be DLC mons without the new returning legendaries like Hoopa and Zeraora. I suppose its possible Xerneas and co will be illegal again for that season and come back season 5.
When there are a lot more mythicals and legendaries I think you'll see a lot less of it. Particularly if there's lots of steel types coming in to check it. Not confident that Zygarde will supercede it though.
When there are a lot more mythicals and legendaries I think you'll see a lot less of it. Particularly if there's lots of steel types coming in to check it. Not confident that Zygarde will supercede it though.
Based on what I've read from the Battle Club Discord server, I'd recommend replacing Iron Head w/ Heavy Slam. On top of Heavy Slam's homing ability and Mega Metagross especially getting a lot of mileage with its weight, a fair amount of people have said that Iron Head is too unreliable as a STAB move because opponents can easily make their Pokemon move out of Iron Head's range.
Season 2 Personal Viability Rankings:
Sup everyone. So earlier today, a lot of us on the discord were talking about the advancements in the season 2 meta, and we all decided to share our vrs. I decided to compile a list of the rankings here for y'all to see:
Mine:
Theorymon's
Jibaku's
ThatOneApple's
Meteordash's
Now, I wouldn't focus too much on specific placements - obviously we all have things we see more often than others, as well as use, but some specific observations that I can gather from these rankings based on how far the S2 meta has progressed:
Unsurprisingly, these two continue to define the metagame. However, some savy players can see the developments that have caused some of us to rate Garchomp as the best mon in the format: the metagame has adapted to Xerneas better, with niche picks continuing to be discovered (and used!), and Xerneas itself definitely seeing less usage. Meanwhile, Garchomp continues to claim the kills it always has in a metagame ripe with Xerneas checks, and more and more players are using Focus Sash Garchomp, essentially a cheat code that allows the shark to trade vs any mon it so desires, including Xerneas itself if it opts for Poison Jab as its last move. With all this said, Xerneas is still Xerneas, and it has gotten experimentation with mixed sets with Geomancy to catch players thinking they can dodge its Moonblasts easily.
Moving on to what's considered the high tier, you can mix and match these mons to make a potential top 5, and they're all things you HAVE to respect if you want to have consistent wins. Ampharos is the swiss army knife of the format and continues its bread and butter of setting screens to allow for some nasty team comps, and with Shuca Berry, it essentially impossible to KO; Charge + Tbolt means it can always snipe kills and forces your Ground in.
Chandelure and Delphox maintain their position as top Fire-types that snipe everything with Heat Wave, and while the choice between regular and Mega is debatable depending on who you ask, their ability to use a variety of items allows them to be adaptable in a metagame with Item Clause.
Yveltal took time to pick up as players discovered sets that worked with it, and now many are respecting it as the top mon it is: it uses its plethora of dodge moves (Fly, Dragon Rush, and Phantom Force) to kill steal reliably, has massive Heat Waves that pick apart Steel-types, and still has its usual shenanigans of strong Oblivion Wings, and Dark Pulses. It can even Giga Impact to pick off weakened Xerneas! Comps with it still have to be wary of Xerneas, but the deer's lower usage has allowed Yveltal to truly prosper in its own right.
There's also the Megas: Mega Skarmory, while still considered by most the best Steel in the format, definitely does not love the uptick of Heat Waves and Thunderbolts that plague the meta, especially as the pool of Fire- and Electric-types has continued to viably gain more usage. Still does Skarm things, of course. Mega Garchomp is still very good, and has to be respected as something that instantly racks up kills, but is not a necessity to how Garchomp already functions and is a Mega slot that can go to something else.
And perhaps the most surprising development of them all, with what has been dubbed the Water-type renaissance: due to S2's penchant for having boatloads of Xern answers like the Fires, Water-types have surged (haha) in usage to combat this, and they've been mighty effective. The most impactful one has been Vaporeon, who has movement speed rivaling Garchomp, and its short stature allows it to snipe kills with Hydro Pump very reliably while also being hard to kill. Many other Water-types, such as Clawitzer, Slowbro, Slowking, and to a lesser extent Greninja, Mega Blastoise, and even Simipour have seen an uptick in usage and reflect how Hydro Pump + Ice Beam are excellent sniping tools. Due to this, the uptick of Solar Beam on things like Chandelure and Delphox is noteworthy as well.
Now, let's address the elephant in the room, or rather, the super computer and the mole: some might be surprised to see Metagross and Excadrill ranked fairly low in these rankings, despite what their usage might suggest. The answer to that is simply that they're overrated: base Metagross is clunky and gets clipped by a lot of garbage due to its size and sluggish movement speed, and while Mega Metagross is solid, its sets are widely pigeon-holed into AoA 4 Attacks, and still suffer the same issues of being Heat Wave and TBolt sniped. Excadrill is a fake Steel-type that continues to lose to things that Steels are supposed to check in the first place (e.g. Xerneas), and is too squishy to justify beyond Sash sets, which aren't super remarkable. On the opposite end, Mega Excadrill is a Mega slot that's extremely hard to justify over Mega Garchomp as an EQ spammer, and is still a fake Steel in the ways that Mega Metagross is not.
Finally, I'll end the post with some mons I feel have really shined as the season has progressed. I mentioned Vaporeon above, which is one I consider a big winner, but its fellow Eeveelution Glaceon has gained more traction as well, just like in S1: the decrease in Xern usage and the rise of Water-types have allowed its niche of killing everything with strong Ice spam to shine more!
Then, there's Pikachu: Pikachu's ludicrous power has quickly cemented it as an excellent trade machine, and in a game where it doesn't get outsped and one shotted before it can do anything, that is very good for it. People might be surprised to find out that our favorite mascot can do beautiful things such as OHKO Xerneas and Metagross with a Charge +Volt Tackle, and be EV'd to survive things like non-LO Xerneas' Moonblast and Stunfisk's Earth Power after a Charge, allowing it to consistently get even more trades. It's very explosive and imo is the 2nd best Electric in this format!
Now, Mega Venusaur. This guy might as well be the best Grass-type in the format, and if you're aware of the fact that +Solar Beam is near instantaneous, you know this guy snipes from afar and claims lives. Add Earth Power for anything that resists Solar Beam, and a Sludge Wave that covers the battlefield, you have a mon that compresses a sturdy Xern check AND a reliable sniper in one. It also unbelievably shrugs hits like no others (I have clips on the Discord of me living Mega Dnite's Flamethrower + Ice Beam, living, and then KOing it!). You might also be surprised to find out that this thing's movement speed beats out the likes of Garchomp, and is on par with Gengar, Charizard, and Clefable, and Phrog's legs means it can run away from danger and set up for even better snipes, too. Very fun mon!
Anyways, that's all I got for now! With S2 drawing to a close, it's been fun to see how things have progressed and what niches mons have been able to fill.Here's to a non-Xern season for S3!
Sup everyone. So earlier today, a lot of us on the discord were talking about the advancements in the season 2 meta, and we all decided to share our vrs. I decided to compile a list of the rankings here for y'all to see:
Mine:
Theorymon's
Jibaku's
ThatOneApple's
Meteordash's
Now, I wouldn't focus too much on specific placements - obviously we all have things we see more often than others, as well as use, but some specific observations that I can gather from these rankings based on how far the S2 meta has progressed:
Unsurprisingly, these two continue to define the metagame. However, some savy players can see the developments that have caused some of us to rate Garchomp as the best mon in the format: the metagame has adapted to Xerneas better, with niche picks continuing to be discovered (and used!), and Xerneas itself definitely seeing less usage. Meanwhile, Garchomp continues to claim the kills it always has in a metagame ripe with Xerneas checks, and more and more players are using Focus Sash Garchomp, essentially a cheat code that allows the shark to trade vs any mon it so desires, including Xerneas itself if it opts for Poison Jab as its last move. With all this said, Xerneas is still Xerneas, and it has gotten experimentation with mixed sets with Geomancy to catch players thinking they can dodge its Moonblasts easily.
Moving on to what's considered the high tier, you can mix and match these mons to make a potential top 5, and they're all things you HAVE to respect if you want to have consistent wins. Ampharos is the swiss army knife of the format and continues its bread and butter of setting screens to allow for some nasty team comps, and with Shuca Berry, it essentially impossible to KO; Charge + Tbolt means it can always snipe kills and forces your Ground in.
Chandelure and Delphox maintain their position as top Fire-types that snipe everything with Heat Wave, and while the choice between regular and Mega is debatable depending on who you ask, their ability to use a variety of items allows them to be adaptable in a metagame with Item Clause.
Yveltal took time to pick up as players discovered sets that worked with it, and now many are respecting it as the top mon it is: it uses its plethora of dodge moves (Fly, Dragon Rush, and Phantom Force) to kill steal reliably, has massive Heat Waves that pick apart Steel-types, and still has its usual shenanigans of strong Oblivion Wings, and Dark Pulses. It can even Giga Impact to pick off weakened Xerneas! Comps with it still have to be wary of Xerneas, but the deer's lower usage has allowed Yveltal to truly prosper in its own right.
There's also the Megas: Mega Skarmory, while still considered by most the best Steel in the format, definitely does not love the uptick of Heat Waves and Thunderbolts that plague the meta, especially as the pool of Fire- and Electric-types has continued to viably gain more usage. Still does Skarm things, of course. Mega Garchomp is still very good, and has to be respected as something that instantly racks up kills, but is not a necessity to how Garchomp already functions and is a Mega slot that can go to something else.
And perhaps the most surprising development of them all, with what has been dubbed the Water-type renaissance: due to S2's penchant for having boatloads of Xern answers like the Fires, Water-types have surged (haha) in usage to combat this, and they've been mighty effective. The most impactful one has been Vaporeon, who has movement speed rivaling Garchomp, and its short stature allows it to snipe kills with Hydro Pump very reliably while also being hard to kill. Many other Water-types, such as Clawitzer, Slowbro, Slowking, and to a lesser extent Greninja, Mega Blastoise, and even Simipour have seen an uptick in usage and reflect how Hydro Pump + Ice Beam are excellent sniping tools. Due to this, the uptick of Solar Beam on things like Chandelure and Delphox is noteworthy as well.
Now, let's address the elephant in the room, or rather, the super computer and the mole: some might be surprised to see Metagross and Excadrill ranked fairly low in these rankings, despite what their usage might suggest. The answer to that is simply that they're overrated: base Metagross is clunky and gets clipped by a lot of garbage due to its size and sluggish movement speed, and while Mega Metagross is solid, its sets are widely pigeon-holed into AoA 4 Attacks, and still suffer the same issues of being Heat Wave and TBolt sniped. Excadrill is a fake Steel-type that continues to lose to things that Steels are supposed to check in the first place (e.g. Xerneas), and is too squishy to justify beyond Sash sets, which aren't super remarkable. On the opposite end, Mega Excadrill is a Mega slot that's extremely hard to justify over Mega Garchomp as an EQ spammer, and is still a fake Steel in the ways that Mega Metagross is not.
Finally, I'll end the post with some mons I feel have really shined as the season has progressed. I mentioned Vaporeon above, which is one I consider a big winner, but its fellow Eeveelution Glaceon has gained more traction as well, just like in S1: the decrease in Xern usage and the rise of Water-types have allowed its niche of killing everything with strong Ice spam to shine more!
Then, there's Pikachu: Pikachu's ludicrous power has quickly cemented it as an excellent trade machine, and in a game where it doesn't get outsped and one shotted before it can do anything, that is very good for it. People might be surprised to find out that our favorite mascot can do beautiful things such as OHKO Xerneas and Metagross with a Charge +Volt Tackle, and be EV'd to survive things like non-LO Xerneas' Moonblast and Stunfisk's Earth Power after a Charge, allowing it to consistently get even more trades. It's very explosive and imo is the 2nd best Electric in this format!
Now, Mega Venusaur. This guy might as well be the best Grass-type in the format, and if you're aware of the fact that +Solar Beam is near instantaneous, you know this guy snipes from afar and claims lives. Add Earth Power for anything that resists Solar Beam, and a Sludge Wave that covers the battlefield, you have a mon that compresses a sturdy Xern check AND a reliable sniper in one. It also unbelievably shrugs hits like no others (I have clips on the Discord of me living Mega Dnite's Flamethrower + Ice Beam, living, and then KOing it!). You might also be surprised to find out that this thing's movement speed beats out the likes of Garchomp, and is on par with Gengar, Charizard,
Anyways, that's all I got for now! With S2 drawing to a close, it's been fun to see how things have progressed and what niches mons have been able to fill.
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