Pokemon Minus

[Cookie Butter]

But Probopass and those Pokemon are naturally formed. They have never been even forged.
We could give Unpossess to Aegislash, Banette, Cofagrigus, Golurk, Gougeist, Rotom's formes, Spiritomb and Trevenant and that would be more flavorful.

 

[zerobreaker000]

But Probopass and those Pokemon are naturally formed. They have never been even forged.
We could give Unpossess to Aegislash, Banette, Cofagrigus, Golurk, Gougeist, Rotom's formes, Spiritomb and Trevenant and that would be more flavorful.

True. I'm fine with both Ironforge and Unpossess tbh.

Also, can we have a list of new/changed abilities and moves? Some people might want to reuse them for the upcoming slates.

 

[Cookie Butter]

I'll list Pokemon and ability changes later.
For now, here's a sketch of the move list.

New/Changed Moves

Scald: Super-effective against Ice-types.
Origin Pulse (120 BP, Water-type, Special, 100% Accuracy, 8 PP; Super-effective against Water-types.)
Regenerative Beam (New Move: 120 BP Grass-type, Special, 100℅ accuracy, 8 PP; Heals the user by 50% of the damage done)
Judgement now has 120 BP and 15 PP (w/PP Up: 24)
Spacial Rend is now a 70 BP move that always crits. Has 100 Acc
Moonlight now heals 75% in Rain and 25% in Sun
Roar of Time is now a Dragon-type Doom Desire
Magmatic Slam (150 BP, Fire-type, Physical, 100% Accuracy, 8 PP; Less power as HP decreases,
Volcanic Blades (120 BP, Fire-type, Physical, 100% Accuracy, 8 PP; Super-effective against Water-types.)
Sacred Fire - Erases all stat changes of hit target.
Cleansing Rainbow - 100 BP, Fairy type, special, 100% Accu., 16PP; Heals user of its status.
Fairy Lock - Immobilizes target completely. The chances of this move failing increase when used consecutively
Crafty Shield - Protects the user. If opponent attacks, their stat boosts are transferred to the user.
Yin Blast - 100 Power, Dark, 95 Accuracy, Physical, gets 50% boost anyway from Blitzing Ideal
Azure Strike - 170 BP, Flying type, special, 95% Accu., 8PP; Lowers user’s Def and Sp. Def by one stage
Paleozoic Beam (New move: Rock type variant of Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower with no secondary effect.)
Shooting Star - 110 BP, 85 Acc., has a 30% chance to lower target's SpA by one stage, Fairy type
Disarming Voice - 40 BP, 100 Acc., has +1 Priority, Fairy type
Thunder Boom - 140BP, Electric type, special, 100% Accu., 8PP, sound move, hit all targets on field.

 

[zerobreaker000]

Meh, got enough time to make a google doc of this, going to add the changed Pokemons later.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fxFcBx-ncgsfUtuZtitc3ZqwQNrbzC7stfoCqoCMeQ8/edit?usp=sharing

EDIT: Welp, got ninja'd. At least I have abilities and items lol

EDIT #2: Ehhh got the pokemon changelot set up, going to update everything soon.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yiCMo9TddYAKCHgRpyrfvzmNXdwHtnByx85YTEoOiSw/edit?usp=sharing

And please, PLEASE, PLEASE everyone, mark down things like if the move/ability is a signature one, the move's PP, etc. It makes things easier for me.

 

[FlameUser64]

Those are natural Steel types. They've never been "forged". I can see Heatran and Magnezone also learning the move, but the rest is kinda pushing it. They're all weak to Fire after all. I can't see them creating heat out of their bodies to fix itself anyway.

It's not about whether they were forged when originally created. The Pokémon's outer body simply has to be covered in enough metal that it can logically fix scrapes and dents by just smoothing them out and adding scrap metal to fill in, without the heat reaching its internal organs in the process. "Ironforge" just happened to sound far cooler than "Weld" or "Repair".

 

[Cookie Butter]

It's not about whether they were forged when originally created. The Pokémon's outer body simply has to be covered in enough metal that it can logically fix scrapes and dents by just smoothing them out and adding scrap metal to fill in, without the heat reaching its internal organs in the process. "Ironforge" just happened to sound far cooler than "Weld" or "Repair".

I get it now, but if it heals half of their HP in one go, it isn't just fixing scrapes and dents... I have an idea, make it like Aqua Ring, but with 1/8th recovery that adds Fire type to it, or adds Fire type to it in the first turn it is used.
It's just that I don't want to make an Aegislash entry just to make Unpossess. xD

 

[zerobreaker000]

I'm FINALLY done with typing down all the changes
My fingers hurts ;-;

 

[FlameUser64]

I get it now, but if it heals half of their HP in one go, it isn't just fixing scrapes and dents... I have an idea, make it like Aqua Ring, but with 1/8th recovery that adds Fire type to it, or adds Fire type to it in the first turn it is used.
It's just that I don't want to make an Aegislash entry just to make Unpossess. xD

Depends on your definition of "scrapes and dents", really. Most damage a Steel-type is even going to take is going to boil down to "scrapes and dents" of varying degrees in the first place.

Eh sure, if you like your Unpossess idea that much, I can add it just because why not. Although, how exactly would it work as a move? Based on the name alone, I would assume the Pokémon refreshes its stamina by temporarily exiting whatever object it normally inhabits, meaning it no longer has a corporeal form to even have scrapes, cuts, dents, and similar damage in the first place. Then it repossesses and weird magical BS synchronizes the spirit's stamina with the object it's possessing, meaning the object essentially repairs itself.

Edit: I just had a brilliant idea that makes me very sad that I missed the slate for Dialga.
Step 1: Give Dialga a signature ability that sets Trick Room on switch-in. This Trick Room is permanent, ending only when the Pokémon that originally set it is KO'd or switches out. It remains in play even if the original setter loses the ability that caused it. It can still be ended by setting Trick Room again, just like normal.
Step 2: Reduce Dialga's base Speed to 1.

Presto change-o, Dialga is now effectively faster than anything ever. Seems fitting for the master of Time, does it not?

 

[zerobreaker000]

Edit: I just had a brilliant idea that makes me very sad that I missed the slate for Dialga.
Step 1: Give Dialga a signature ability that sets Trick Room on switch-in. This Trick Room is permanent, ending only when the Pokémon that originally set it is KO'd or switches out. It remains in play even if the original setter loses the ability that caused it. It can still be ended by setting Trick Room again, just like normal.
Step 2: Reduce Dialga's base Speed to 1.

Presto change-o, Dialga is now effectively faster than anything ever. Seems fitting for the master of Time, does it not?

That... sounds so incredibly broken. Mostly because the stats taken away from the speed would be put in other places, and then Dialga would simply be either ridiculously powerful, stupidly bulky, or both.
I think an ability that sets 3 turn trick room every 6 turns would be more fun, since it would cause slow pokemons to become fast and then back to slow again and again.

 

[Cookie Butter]

Dialga is the master of Time, not Space. Trick Room seems more of a space thing.
We could give it auto flinch on the first turn in battle (timestop) or something instead of Telepathy.

 

[Samtendo09]

Or slow down foes at first turn and prevent any Pokémon including the user from getting faster (Tempo Control).

 

[FlameUser64]

Dialga is the master of Time, not Space. Trick Room seems more of a space thing.
We could give it auto flinch on the first turn in battle (timestop) or something instead of Telepathy.

Trick Room is obviously a time thing though. It has to be, otherwise it doesn't make sense. I mean, it makes fast movement slow and slow movement fast; how is that not a time thing? Plus, it makes sense the Dialga should be faster than anything; if the foe should logically be physically faster, Dialga can simply bend the flow of time, slowing down their progression through time to the point that they are slower than Dialga regardless, or speeding up its own progression through time so that it is always faster.

That... sounds so incredibly broken. Mostly because the stats taken away from the speed would be put in other places, and then Dialga would simply be either ridiculously powerful, stupidly bulky, or both.
I think an ability that sets 3 turn trick room every 6 turns would be more fun, since it would cause slow pokemons to become fast and then back to slow again and again.

Doesn't really need to have the stats put into other places, to be honest. In fact, it's preferable that that doesn't happen since perma-TR with 1 base speed is effectively equivalent to infinite base Speed.

Edit: Another way to go about this that means you don't have to change Dialga's base Speed at all:
If any active opposing Pokémon is faster than Dialga, the fastest active opposing Pokémon has its Speed stat set to 1 point less than that of Dialga. Increased Speed stages won't bypass this effect; the foe will still have a Speed stat equal to (Dialga's Speed) - 1, regardless of modifiers.

In other words, instead of Dialga manipulating time on itself to always be faster than everything, it manipulates the flow of time on foes that are faster than it to make them slower. But it can only do this to a single foe at a time. So in Doubles or Triples, if multiple foes are faster than Dialga only one of them will have their Speed stat altered to be slower.

 

[Cookie Butter]

Alright. The amount of Pokemon with Intrinsic Levitate is heavily nerfing Ground types, and having a huge threat that is weak to Ground type seems like a good idea.
But on the other hand, Palkia and Dialga are a duo, and I don't agree with boosting Dialga and Palkia so differently, not to mention the BST difference... And Palkia would destroy Ground types...

 

[Mr155551]

i kind of agree that ground types got a huge nerf in here needs more mold breaker grounds and 1k arrows

 

[FlameUser64]

Alright. The amount of Pokemon with Intrinsic Levitate is heavily nerfing Ground types, and having a huge threat that is weak to Ground type seems like a good idea.
But on the other hand, Palkia and Dialga are a duo, and I don't agree with boosting Dialga and Palkia so differently, not to mention the BST difference... And Palkia would destroy Ground types...

We need at least one Ground-type with an ability that sets Gravity for 5 turns on switch-in, I think.

And I did make an edit that gives a different way of making Dialga effectively faster than everything (at least in Singles) without actually having to change its BST at all. I really do think that as master of Time, Dialga should be effectively faster than everything, though, simply because it doesn't make sense for Dialga to let anything outspeed it. The question is what Palkia can do with its spacial manipulation that's similar. Simultaneous automatic Heal Block, Embargo, and Gravity (opposing side only) on switch-in, maybe? Or maybe an automatic conditional Wonder Room so Palkia is always hitting the foe's weaker defensive stat?

 

[Samtendo09]

We need at least one Ground-type with an ability that sets Gravity for 5 turns on switch-in, I think.

And I did make an edit that gives a different way of making Dialga effectively faster than everything (at least in Singles) without actually having to change its BST at all. I really do think that as master of Time, Dialga should be effectively faster than everything, though, simply because it doesn't make sense for Dialga to let anything outspeed it. The question is what Palkia can do with its spacial manipulation that's similar. Simultaneous automatic Heal Block, Embargo, and Gravity (opposing side only) on switch-in, maybe? Or maybe an automatic conditional Wonder Room so Palkia is always hitting the foe's weaker defensive stat?

The first option of Palkia makes more senses, as it involves Gravity, which is part of Space.

 

[Cookie Butter]

We need at least one Ground-type with an ability that sets Gravity for 5 turns on switch-in, I think.

And I did make an edit that gives a different way of making Dialga effectively faster than everything (at least in Singles) without actually having to change its BST at all. I really do think that as master of Time, Dialga should be effectively faster than everything, though, simply because it doesn't make sense for Dialga to let anything outspeed it. The question is what Palkia can do with its spacial manipulation that's similar. Simultaneous automatic Heal Block, Embargo, and Gravity (opposing side only) on switch-in, maybe? Or maybe an automatic conditional Wonder Room so Palkia is always hitting the foe's weaker defensive stat?

Automatic Magic Room until Palkia dies or switches out, give Palkia immunity to Trick Room/Embargo.
But both abilities would heavily make the other ones useless (especially in Dialga's case), and that's the worst possible thing that could happen in this meta IMO...
We have to think about this better and see if Pikachuun agrees with removing the oh-so-powerful Telepathy from them.

 

[Pikachuun]

We have to think about this better and see if Pikachuun agrees with removing the oh-so-powerful Telepathy from them.

Or, you know, we could just buff Telepathy.

 

[Samtendo09]

Or, you know, we could just buff Telepathy.

How about this;

Telepathy: Reduce damage from spereading attacks by 25%, whatever if it is in Single or if it is the only target of the does left.

 

[FlameUser64]

Automatic Magic Room until Palkia dies or switches out, give Palkia immunity to Trick Room/Embargo.
But both abilities would heavily make the other ones useless (especially in Dialga's case), and that's the worst possible thing that could happen in this meta IMO...
We have to think about this better and see if Pikachuun agrees with removing the oh-so-powerful Telepathy from them.

Magic Room? Magic Room makes held items not work for both sides. Hence why I suggested Embargo, which affects only the opposing side.

I kinda think automatic conditional Wonder Room might be fun for Palkia, though. Affects Palkia defensively as well as the opponent, but basically any time Palkia chooses an attack move, at the start of the turn (after switches and Mega Evolution take place) the ability checks which of the target's defensive stats is higher. If Palkia's attack targets the higher one, Wonder Room activates. Wonder Room stays in effect until the ability determines that the defensive stat Palkia is targeting would be the lower one if Wonder Room weren't active. If Palkia switches out or is KO'd, its Wonder Room ends immediately if it was active.

By "other ones" you mean the other ability options for those Pokémon? Telepathy isn't gonna get used in a singles environment anyway and should really be replaced with something useful regardless. Or you can buff it in some way to make it actually good. Maybe Telepathy = automatic Imprison on switch-in?

 

[Cookie Butter]

Or, you know, we could just buff Telepathy.

Me and FlameUser were thinking of something more flavorful.

Magic Room? Magic Room makes held items not work for both sides. Hence why I suggested Embargo, which affects only the opposing side.

I kinda think automatic conditional Wonder Room might be fun for Palkia, though. Affects Palkia defensively as well as the opponent, but basically any time Palkia chooses an attack move, at the start of the turn (after switches and Mega Evolution take place) the ability checks which of the target's defensive stats is higher. If Palkia's attack targets the higher one, Wonder Room activates. Wonder Room stays in effect until the ability determines that the defensive stat Palkia is targeting would be the lower one if Wonder Room weren't active. If Palkia switches out or is KO'd, its Wonder Room ends immediately if it was active.

But Embargo can be removed by switching. Magic Room and Palkia being immune to it would be better.
Wonder Room kind of sucks IMO.

Here's something simpler, give Palkia an automatic Focus Energy ability and Dialga an offensive Prankster.
The Lake Guardians are better off with the three rooms IMO.

By "other ones" you mean the other ability options for those Pokémon? Telepathy isn't gonna get used in a singles environment anyway and should really be replaced with something useful regardless. Or you can buff it in some way to make it actually good. Maybe Telepathy = automatic Imprison on switch-in?

Regenerator sucks compared to always moving first.

 

[Nintega]

Aight,i'm just throwing this out there.It never made sense to me how they had Light Clay,Heat Rock,Icy Rock and Damp Rock but know item that could heighten the time in which trick room would stay active. I was thinking there could be something possibly called Clock Rock, Time Rock or something that ups the time TrickRoom last from 5 turns to 10 turns.

 

[FlameUser64]

Aight,i'm just throwing this out there.It never made sense to me how they had Light Clay,Heat Rock,Icy Rock and Damp Rock but know item that could heighten the time in which trick room would stay active. I was thinking there could be something possibly called Clock Rock, Time Rock or something that ups the time TrickRoom last from 5 turns to 10 turns.

Magic Lens would make a good name for such an item IMO. In any case, it would be from 5 turns to 8 just like the weather rocks.

And another thing while we're at it:

Terracotta: Terrain moves used by the holder last 8 turns instead of 5.

Me and FlameUser were thinking of something more flavorful.
But Embargo can be removed by switching. Magic Room and Palkia being immune to it would be better.
Wonder Room kind of sucks IMO.

Here's something simpler, give Palkia an automatic Focus Energy ability and Dialga an offensive Prankster.
The Lake Guardians are better off with the three rooms IMO.
Regenerator sucks compared to always moving first.

Ah, yeah. Magic Room with self-immunity works. I'd forgotten Embargo was removed by switches tbh.

As for Wonder Room sucking, well, auto-Wonder Room that swaps the opponent's defences always to your benefit lets Palkia do this to Eviolite Chansey (neither are using Pokémon Minus stats):
252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
(Swapped 105 base Sp. Def for 5 base Def and Bold nature to Calm nature so it's getting the same boosts. Calculator doesn't have Wonder Room.)

It's not Wonder Room all the time, it's Wonder Room ON when it's helpful and Wonder Room OFF when it wouldn't be. The main failing of Wonder Room is that it takes a turn to set up or deactivate and your opponent can just switch to using a mon with the now-relevant defensive stat during that time (or spend their turn doing productive things like hitting you), plus it wastes a moveslot. The ability to have Wonder Room automatically turn on or off as you need it means your opponent's defensive stats are effectively both equal to their worst defensive stat.

Using the new Pokémon Minus stats:
252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 253-298 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thank you Wonder Room for swapping Sylveon's base 150 252 EV positive-nature Sp. Def for its base 105 4 EV Def!

But yeah, Super Super Luck Palkia and attack-moves-have-priority Dialga works too. (Although Dialga having priority on all attack moves might be even scarier than what I did, since it isn't as easily bypassed by priority moves or simply nullifying Trick Room. Would it just be Dragon and Steel moves only?)

 

[Cookie Butter]

Ah, yeah. Magic Room with self-immunity works. I'd forgotten Embargo was removed by switches tbh.

As for Wonder Room sucking, well, auto-Wonder Room that swaps the opponent's defences always to your benefit lets Palkia do this to Eviolite Chansey (neither are using Pokémon Minus stats):
252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
(Swapped 105 base Sp. Def for 5 base Def and Bold nature to Calm nature so it's getting the same boosts. Calculator doesn't have Wonder Room.)

It's not Wonder Room all the time, it's Wonder Room ON when it's helpful and Wonder Room OFF when it wouldn't be. The main failing of Wonder Room is that it takes a turn to set up or deactivate and your opponent can just switch to using a mon with the now-relevant defensive stat during that time (or spend their turn doing productive things like hitting you), plus it wastes a moveslot. The ability to have Wonder Room automatically turn on or off as you need it means your opponent's defensive stats are effectively both equal to their worst defensive stat.

Using the new Pokémon Minus stats:
252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 253-298 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thank you Wonder Room for swapping Sylveon's base 150 252 EV positive-nature Sp. Def for its base 105 4 EV Def!

But yeah, Super Super Luck Palkia and attack-moves-have-priority Dialga works too. (Although Dialga having priority on all attack moves might be even scarier than what I did, since it isn't as easily bypassed by priority moves or simply nullifying Trick Room. Would it just be Dragon and Steel moves only?)

Hm... On/Off Wonder Room seems viable.
And yeah, you're right. I'll think more about it.

 

[FlameUser64]

Hm... On/Off Wonder Room seems viable.
And yeah, you're right. I'll think more about it.

Well, plus I was sorta planning on giving Celebi an ability that disables Trick Room on switch-in (if it's active) and prevents anyone but her from activating Trick Room while she's on the field. (If two Celebi with this ability were on the field, they'd both also prevent each other from using Trick Room.) Why? Flavour reasons and PMD: Explorers references.

Oh also, I've decided I'm removing Intrinsic Levitate from Aegislash. He doesn't need it, and Ground-types as a whole don't need to deal with that. Plus, he doesn't float very far above the ground, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be immune to things like Bone Rush, Bone Club, Precipice Blades, Earth Power, or Land's Wrath. (After all, both Precipice Blades and Land's Wrath have the ground pretty much leap up to meet the target, while the energy bursts of Earth Power clearly erupt out of the ground to a respectable height.)