No, I did calc for that already. Rock Tomb + Extremespeed won't even come close to KO Infernape. It does something like 70% max.
EDIT: 74.4% max for Adamant Lucario.
EDIT: 74.4% max for Adamant Lucario.
Yea did a whole bunch of calcs last night and must of forgot to change the nature back. Anyways infernape MUST outspead all luke otherwise luke can just go timid+occa to ko you with psychic and beat you to the priority. Thats easily fixed by changing the nature to naive. Now overheat doesnt always 1hko luke without an occa. Thats easily fixed by moving some att eves into spa. New spread for infernape is 176att/220spa/112spe naive. With all eves used up by luke here are the calcs:@Boondocker:
I was almost totally convinced, but I think you typed in the wrong EVs there for the Rash Infernape. Your calculations and descriptions - if I did them correctly also - correspond to Rash 32 Attack 252 SpA 220 Speed Infernape, not the EV spread you listed.
The EV spread you listed only outspeeds neutral speed Lucario, as I'm pretty sure you knew. It needs 220 Speed to outspeed +Speed Lucario. Also, your calculation of 36.6% - 43.6% with Mach Punch is for 252HP 252 SpD Calm Luke, which is fine, but putting the last 4 EVs into Defense, Luke only takes 35.5% - 42.4%. That, together with Overheat Occa means that it will only KO Luke 54.24% of the time. Factoring in 90% accurate Overheat, that is 48.81% of the time if I did my calculations correctly.
In return, 0 SpA Calm Luke will easily 2HKO with Psychic. It's pretty weird and interesting that with 4 extra EVs in Def Luke actually takes 4 less HP damage on average, so without those 4 Def EVs, instead of 48.81% it'd be 54.9% and ape would dominate.
I think there still might be an EV spread for Infernape dominance though.
Honestly i dont think ttar is as high up there as you think. Low speed and no priority means alot of pokes dont have to invest much in speed to outspeed him, freeing up a bunch of eves for defence to avoid any 1hkos. For example infernape doesnt need ANY eves to outspead max speed tar and can run 252hp and 44def to avoid the 1hko from eq (and surf). I dont even think that ttar can dominate alakazam since 92hp 252def 208spa modest color berry alakazam can live an unboosted payback and 2hko 51% of the time with focus blast. Ttar will almost always want protect to get some free damage every other turn. Also any non sash ttar can be countered.What about Tyranitar? It must be way up there with its ability to cancel out any non Rock/Ground/Steel's Focus Sash, and its vast movepool and high attacking stats letting it prey on the weak defenses of whatever it's facing.
For example, I'm pretty sure (sorry don't have too much time right now, this is more of a discussion sparking post hopefully) Tyranitar completely dominates Alakazam (/ Espeon / Xatu / assorted Psychics) with this set:
Tyranitar @ Focus Sash / Chople Berry
Adamant - 252 Atk / 252 SpD
- Crunch
- Payback
I only play on Shoddy. I did not know this was the case. Thank you for informing me.They can only KO through Sash in 5th gen and on glitched Shoddy Battle, not in game.
I think most people assume Tyranitar will be rather highly ranked because Sandstorm will break a lot of Sashes.Originally Posted by Fat Boondocker
Honestly i dont think ttar is as high up there as you think. Low speed and no priority means alot of pokes dont have to invest much in speed to outspeed him, freeing up a bunch of eves for defence to avoid any 1hkos. For example infernape doesnt need ANY eves to outspead max speed tar and can run 252hp and 44def to avoid the 1hko from eq (and surf). I dont even think that ttar can dominate alakazam since 92hp 252def 208spa modest color berry alakazam can live an unboosted payback and 2hko 51% of the time with focus blast. Ttar will almost always want protect to get some free damage every other turn. Also any non sash ttar can be countered.
Stone edge does the same amount as payback to a dark resist alakazam. So you are better off just using payback to avoid a miss. If ttar is using an adament nature alakazam can run more hp instead of spa to avoid the ko and still 2hko max spd ttar. Im not saying ttar cant dominate alakazam. My point was that the one listed does not dominate him. Ape can easily run leftovers to cancel sandstorm while simultaniously avoiding a 1hko from anything unbosted. If ttar opts for a boosting item he should be 1hkod by cc (not doing calcs tonight).I only play on Shoddy. I did not know this was the case. Thank you for informing me.
I think most people assume Tyranitar will be rather highly ranked because Sandstorm will break a lot of Sashes.
And it doesn't matter if Alakazam can live an unboosted Payback with a berry because Stone Edge is more than like an OHKO with sandstorm (83.6% - 98.9% to that spread from Adamant 252Att) and if T-tar protects turn1 then it is a guaranteed KO without reflect up.
Infernape is still an issue. But if Ape is running anything besides a Passho berry you could go for an Aqua Tail (should KO with 3 possible sandstorms)
Ok im all out of ideas then. What about the first ape from my last post? 176att/220spa/112spe naive with overheat and mach punch and a focus sash.If infernape was using reversal why would it use occa and not focus sash. Focus sash reversal lucario will beat the expert belt infernape.
Yeah im pretty sure ttar cant dominate alakazam. I do think he can dominate azelf and jolteon though since they dont pack enough power to 1hko bandtar. Gengar can avoid domination with destiny bond, and im not sure about starmie. Speaking of gengar hes gotta be pretty high. A speedy destiny bond threatens to ko anything slower (thus avoiding domination), hes immune to any fighting/normal prioriy, and icy wind+destiny bond threatens alot of faster stuff...he even gets priority in sucker punch. If a slower mon attempts to taunt to stop destiny bond gengar can always taunt first. It can also counter, explode, perish song, and hypnotise forcing alot of lum berrys witch will stop alot of mons from using boosting items.I don't think Tyranitar actually dominates Alakazam:
Any non-Chople/Sash Tyranitar is beaten by Timid Choice Specs Alakazam Focus Blast. (Timid outspeeds even Scarf Tar)
Any Chople/Sash Tyranitar cannot OHKO 60 HP 252 Def 196 SpA Bold Colbur Berry Alakazam (IVs: 31/31/30/30/30/30) with Payback or any other move except for Fling Iron Ball (Alakazam will always at least have 1/16 health + 1 HP from Payback, so at least 1HP after sand), but is KO'd Hidden Power Fighting followed by Focus Blast (cannot use Focus Blast twice since 70% * 70% = 49% which is <50%). Maxed Out SpDef Tyranitar has small chance to survive HP Fighting followed by Focus Blast, but obviously against maxed out SpDef Tyranitar Alakazam can just have a more offensive EV spread that ensures the KO (or just switch to Modest, for simplicity).
EDIT: Chople Dragon Dance tar beats that Bold one by DDing, but doesn't beat Timid @ any non-Choice item HP Fighting followed by Focus Blast.
EDIT2: O yeah, any Protect Tyranitar can be dealt with by Rain Dance/Sunny Day.
There's also Rowap and Jaboca Berry.252 attack Adamant Shedinja using X Scissor hits 252/252 Impish Slaking with leftovers for a minimum of 17.5%, which becomes 11.5% after leftovers. Therefore after ten turns Shedinja will win. Slaking can +6 defence with Bulk Up but Shedinja can then Swords Dance.
EDIT: Just thought of Sticky Barb.
Any raikou without sub, lum, or rest loses to this:Suicune stuff above
Calm Palkia takes 54.7% max from the first Draco Meteor (with Haban), so it should just take the first Draco with Haban as it subs, and then sub takes the 2nd draco meteor as it rests so the 3rd draco will be at -4, after which Dialga will no longer be a threat and it'll struggle after the 4th draco meteor.Not quite.
Palkia @ haban berry
252HP/4 SpA/ 252 SpD
calm
~ rest
~ sleep talk
~ Dragon Pulse
beats that set 50% of the time, as you can rest after the second draco meteor, which it survives 50% of the time. After that you wont be able to 3 ko and Palkia can wear it down with an attack of its choice. I dont think that counts as domination