-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokemon Restyle
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
Probs to Snaquaza who convinced me to post for the first time in months lol.
Btw poeple, why are you all neglecting the order of the pokedex? You know usually Venusaur comes before Charizard and Blastoise.
Enough said, time tobe a hipster contribute.
Venusaur
Snaquaza
Blastoise
The Reptile
Charizard
To be honest, I would like to see a combined version of Snaquaza's and Otter Power's concept, but I think I'll go with Snaquaza.
Good luck with the project!
Btw poeple, why are you all neglecting the order of the pokedex? You know usually Venusaur comes before Charizard and Blastoise.
Enough said, time to
Venusaur
Snaquaza
Blastoise
The Reptile
Charizard
To be honest, I would like to see a combined version of Snaquaza's and Otter Power's concept, but I think I'll go with Snaquaza.
Good luck with the project!
Venusaur: 3 Kevinrocks, 5 The Reptile, 10 Snaquaza
Charizard: 18 Snaquaza
Blastoise: 13 Dirpz, 3 Deathly The King, 1 Snaquaza, The Reptile
Venusaur Winning Concept
Blastoise Winning Concept
Charizard Winning Concept
Now it's time to simply discuss the concepts. How are we gonna do them? What are your ideas on on what we should focus it, how are we gonna execute the goal?
Charizard: 18 Snaquaza
Blastoise: 13 Dirpz, 3 Deathly The King, 1 Snaquaza, The Reptile
Venusaur Winning Concept
Blastoise Winning Concept
Charizard Winning Concept
Now it's time to simply discuss the concepts. How are we gonna do them? What are your ideas on on what we should focus it, how are we gonna execute the goal?
Phase 2: Concept Assessment
Now, now, kids, we are NOT going to discuss the possible typings and moves and all that now. That's later.
We won't need as much Concept Assessment as CAP, since the Concepts are a lot more rigid here.
Venusaur
It's clear that we're making a wall that Mega Evolves into a sweeper or cleaner. The question is, how can we do this without incorporating too much 4MSS? Obviusly Venu will want an array of walling moves like Toxic/Will-O, Recover, etc. (Not suggesting these be in the movepool, just thinking.) However, you'll also need enough coverage to smack stuff hard during the endgame. Obviously we won't need all four moveslots dedicated to coverage because by that point stuff will be pretty worn down, but ww will need some, hindering Venu's walling abilities.
What I see as one of our only options here is making Base Venu a sort of tank, with a statline sort of similar to Assault Vest users (which are forced to abandon any support moves), since Venu really needs actual attacks and I can't really see how we're going to make the base form a pure wall. Venusaur can take hits and dish them back most of the match, and then Mega late match and turn into a glass cannon, since there's nothing left to prey on its now-weak defenses by then.
Blastoise
Simply put, we need Rapid Spin, good defenses, a good defensive type, and moves that can crush common Spinblockers and hazard setters. Not too much to say here. By the way, Dirpz, we are not necessarily doing Water/Steel.
Charizard
We can go the route Gamefreak took, and make one physical and one special. But I feel we need to do more than that. Completely different (well, mostly different) typings, deceptively similar but actually quite different common movesets, and most importantly, a widely differing range of checks and counters. If something beats X, then Y beats it, and vice-versa so that Charizard could be either, and you know when sending in a counter that you might have guessed wrong and your counter will be KOed on the switch.
Now, now, kids, we are NOT going to discuss the possible typings and moves and all that now. That's later.
We won't need as much Concept Assessment as CAP, since the Concepts are a lot more rigid here.
Venusaur
It's clear that we're making a wall that Mega Evolves into a sweeper or cleaner. The question is, how can we do this without incorporating too much 4MSS? Obviusly Venu will want an array of walling moves like Toxic/Will-O, Recover, etc. (Not suggesting these be in the movepool, just thinking.) However, you'll also need enough coverage to smack stuff hard during the endgame. Obviously we won't need all four moveslots dedicated to coverage because by that point stuff will be pretty worn down, but ww will need some, hindering Venu's walling abilities.
What I see as one of our only options here is making Base Venu a sort of tank, with a statline sort of similar to Assault Vest users (which are forced to abandon any support moves), since Venu really needs actual attacks and I can't really see how we're going to make the base form a pure wall. Venusaur can take hits and dish them back most of the match, and then Mega late match and turn into a glass cannon, since there's nothing left to prey on its now-weak defenses by then.
Blastoise
Simply put, we need Rapid Spin, good defenses, a good defensive type, and moves that can crush common Spinblockers and hazard setters. Not too much to say here. By the way, Dirpz, we are not necessarily doing Water/Steel.
Charizard
We can go the route Gamefreak took, and make one physical and one special. But I feel we need to do more than that. Completely different (well, mostly different) typings, deceptively similar but actually quite different common movesets, and most importantly, a widely differing range of checks and counters. If something beats X, then Y beats it, and vice-versa so that Charizard could be either, and you know when sending in a counter that you might have guessed wrong and your counter will be KOed on the switch.
For Venusaur, could we make it work somewhat like crocune? I can imagine something along the lines of Calm Mind/Recover suiting a bulky statline for its base forme, which could then undergo a mega evolution similar to Diancie and then sweep. This could be very threatening, but with less chance of successfully setting up once it mega evolved meaning it's not broken. CM could also help it function as a wall, with one boost allowing it to stall out toxic'd or burned pokemon even if it doesn't want to mega evolve and sweep yet.
No thoughts to add on the other pokemon yet.
No thoughts to add on the other pokemon yet.
I think for charizard mindgames to work properly we should also have some viability in the base form, so that you can hold off on the mevo in order to further maintain a bluff, especially if you also have a mon like venu who (with base form chlorophyll, if that remains) could be a cleaner with sunzard (if that remains) or could be the mega and just a base form zard bluff. Base form should probably remain somewhat physically oriented, but could possibly be beefed up to act as a pivot, allowing the mega formes to be transformed into for various versions of bulky offense. Granted it's still weak to sr, but I think at this point that's something charizard will just have to live with, making hazard game very important in addition to the mind games.
Honestly I'd keep most of their primary types. However, their secondary types should probably change
Venusaur's type should probably stay Grass / Poison unevolved and maybe change to Grass / Ground? Ground would provide STAB on Ground-type moves, which would help it as an offensive monster. Meanwhile, Grass / Poison has a lot of defensive merits
Charizard's type could be a lot of things. I can actually see Charizard staying as mono-Fire. Trying to avoid Fire / Dragon but I can also see that being base Charizard's type. Zard Y and X could be any type, but would be interesting if they were different types obviously.
Blastoise's type in my mind should be Water / Steel. I would say Water / Ghost or Water / Dark to better do the "spinning" part but Ghost is kind of weak flavor-wise and Dark isn't good for the "defense" part. Maybe Dark could work on a bulky attacker? Dunno.
Venusaur's type should probably stay Grass / Poison unevolved and maybe change to Grass / Ground? Ground would provide STAB on Ground-type moves, which would help it as an offensive monster. Meanwhile, Grass / Poison has a lot of defensive merits
Charizard's type could be a lot of things. I can actually see Charizard staying as mono-Fire. Trying to avoid Fire / Dragon but I can also see that being base Charizard's type. Zard Y and X could be any type, but would be interesting if they were different types obviously.
Blastoise's type in my mind should be Water / Steel. I would say Water / Ghost or Water / Dark to better do the "spinning" part but Ghost is kind of weak flavor-wise and Dark isn't good for the "defense" part. Maybe Dark could work on a bulky attacker? Dunno.
I'd like Blastoise (Or Mega Blastoise) to be Dark / Poison. It allows it to excel at the spinning part due to the Dark typing, it can hit spinblockers super effectively, but most importantly it won't have to have good offenses as it gets access to STAB Foul Play, which is excellent for a defensive Pokemon. Poison would be cool as it gives an immunity to Toxic Spikes, which is important for the spinner on a defensive team, as it's bad if you get inflicted with Poison while trying to spin them away as a bulky Pokemon. It also gives excellent type synergy with the Dark types, resulting in only one Weakness, which has a lot of immunities (we could even give it one, later!). It also checks Psychic types really well.
While this might be the optimal typing for a bulky spinner, I'm not sure how well it suits the flavour. Honestly, I think beating being toxic'd and beating toxic spikes could be done perhaps by having heal bell, allowing it to support the team further, while usable (though not overpowered) offenses would still allow it to do decently against spinblockers which are. I don't know how much flavour should influence what we do with these pokes, or how much we could influence the flavour (I could imagine changing the flavour of Mega Blastoise to give it this new typing), but I think being able to do these things without such a drastic change should still be possible.
Zard-Base, Zard-X and Zard-Y clearly need to have separate types so we can maintain the uncertainty. I agree with Snaquaza that Zard-Base probably should be Rocks resistant so we don't immediately die on the switch - maybe a Ground type? It provides a useful immunity to Electric, which the potential Flying-type Zard would be weak to.
For Venusaur I would say Grass Rock unevolved, as it makes it get neutral damage from almost all the types, and resisted damage from some too, which may be useful in making it a defensive threat. After Mega Evolution, however, I would suggest Grass/Ground, as it gives it great coverage against other Pokemon, failing to cover maybe..Grass, which gives it good sweeping potential and also prevents it from getting too OP because of the bad weaknesses Grass/Ground has. And because of the bad grass/ground typing, it makes it feel better to hold back mega evolving, till you need ot most
Venusaur
Base Form - Grass/Steel
I feel that this typing helps it become less weak to Birdspam and Ice-Type moves, both being pretty offensive types, the latter being less common.
Mega Form - Grass/Ground
The STABs of Grass/Ground hits every Pokemon for neutral damage except for Flying-Types, which can be dealt with with either HP Rock or Stealth Rocks. maybe except skarmory but hey
Pretty terrible defensive typing but that doesn't matter too
Charizard
Base Form - Fire or Fire/Ground
Both typings help reduce the SR damage taken. That's simply it.
Mega X Form - Dark/Dragon
It hits Psychic-Types and Ghost-Types with its Super-Effective STAB, with the exception of Fairy-Types.
However the Mega Y form takes care of that, which forces the mindgames of whether switching in a Fairy to wall it is a good idea.
Mega Y Form - Steel/Fighting or Poison/Fighting
It hits Fairy-Types with its Super-Effective STABs, but however cannot do much to Psychic-Type or Ghost-Type walls.
aand Mega X takes care of that, and again forces even more mindgames.
Blastoise
Base Form - Dark/Steel or Dark/Poison
Dark/Steel is mainly there if the flavour is really wanted, as Dark/Poison may or may not make more sense than Dark/Steel.
That aside, Dark/Poison is a fantastic typing defensively for a spinner. Its STAB moves punish spinblockers (and if it learns Pursuit then RIP), and it is only weak to Ground and nothing else, which is really powerful for a spinner, Air Balloon can be used to negate that but I'll probably just use lefties.
Mega Form - well the concept doesnt say what the Mega's role should fulfil..
Base Form - Grass/Steel
I feel that this typing helps it become less weak to Birdspam and Ice-Type moves, both being pretty offensive types, the latter being less common.
Mega Form - Grass/Ground
The STABs of Grass/Ground hits every Pokemon for neutral damage except for Flying-Types, which can be dealt with with either HP Rock or Stealth Rocks. maybe except skarmory but hey
Pretty terrible defensive typing but that doesn't matter too
Charizard
Base Form - Fire or Fire/Ground
Both typings help reduce the SR damage taken. That's simply it.
Mega X Form - Dark/Dragon
It hits Psychic-Types and Ghost-Types with its Super-Effective STAB, with the exception of Fairy-Types.
However the Mega Y form takes care of that, which forces the mindgames of whether switching in a Fairy to wall it is a good idea.
Mega Y Form - Steel/Fighting or Poison/Fighting
It hits Fairy-Types with its Super-Effective STABs, but however cannot do much to Psychic-Type or Ghost-Type walls.
aand Mega X takes care of that, and again forces even more mindgames.
Blastoise
Base Form - Dark/Steel or Dark/Poison
Dark/Steel is mainly there if the flavour is really wanted, as Dark/Poison may or may not make more sense than Dark/Steel.
That aside, Dark/Poison is a fantastic typing defensively for a spinner. Its STAB moves punish spinblockers (and if it learns Pursuit then RIP), and it is only weak to Ground and nothing else, which is really powerful for a spinner, Air Balloon can be used to negate that but I'll probably just use lefties.
Mega Form - well the concept doesnt say what the Mega's role should fulfil..
Well this phase took too long, sorry for that!
You can submit typings now.
I submit:
Charizard: Steel / Dragon (Gains a lot of switchin opportunities, SR resist.)
Charizard Mega Y: Fire / Psychic (It beats Fighting types, Fire types, Ice types, Fairy types and more things that like to switch in on other forms)
Charizard Mega X: Dragon / Dark (It beats Water types, Ghost types, Dark types and more things that would switch in on its other form)
Not too sure about these
Blastoise and Mega: Poison / Dark (See a few posts up)
Venusaur: Flying / Fairy (Nice typing to set up with :o)
Venusaur Mega: Ground / Fairy (Great offensive typing)
I like how I am antiflavor rn.
You can submit typings now.
I submit:
Charizard: Steel / Dragon (Gains a lot of switchin opportunities, SR resist.)
Charizard Mega Y: Fire / Psychic (It beats Fighting types, Fire types, Ice types, Fairy types and more things that like to switch in on other forms)
Charizard Mega X: Dragon / Dark (It beats Water types, Ghost types, Dark types and more things that would switch in on its other form)
Not too sure about these
Blastoise and Mega: Poison / Dark (See a few posts up)
Venusaur: Flying / Fairy (Nice typing to set up with :o)
Venusaur Mega: Ground / Fairy (Great offensive typing)
I like how I am antiflavor rn.
Charizard: Fire / Flying
Charizard Mega Y: Fire / Flying
Charizard Mega X: Fire / Dark
Causes mind-games similar to Gyarados, except amplified with 2 megas. Kept it kind of flavorful, although removed Fire / Dragon for Zard X because I'm that guy (plus I think Fire / Dark fits better)
Blastoise and Mega: Water / Steel
Water / Steel gives Blastoise a lot of switch-in options due to it being a great typing while also leaving it immune to Toxic Spikes.
Venusaur: Grass/ Poison
Venusaur Mega: Grass / Ground
Grass / Poison still has defensive merits to it such as resisting Water and Fighting and Fairy and stuff (pretty much what I said in my concept intro) while Grass / Ground gives Mega Venu powerful Ground STAB.
Charizard Mega Y: Fire / Flying
Charizard Mega X: Fire / Dark
Causes mind-games similar to Gyarados, except amplified with 2 megas. Kept it kind of flavorful, although removed Fire / Dragon for Zard X because I'm that guy (plus I think Fire / Dark fits better)
Blastoise and Mega: Water / Steel
Water / Steel gives Blastoise a lot of switch-in options due to it being a great typing while also leaving it immune to Toxic Spikes.
Venusaur: Grass/ Poison
Venusaur Mega: Grass / Ground
Grass / Poison still has defensive merits to it such as resisting Water and Fighting and Fairy and stuff (pretty much what I said in my concept intro) while Grass / Ground gives Mega Venu powerful Ground STAB.
Venusaur: Grass/Steel
Mega Venusaur: Grass/Rock
Grass/Steel is a good defensive typing, giving it resistances to Water, Fairy and Dragon, as well as taking neutral hits from Flying, Ground and Ice. Grass/Rock has an unexpectedly good coverage, so I went with that.
Charizard: Fire/Dragon
Charizard Mega X: Fire/Steel
Charizard Mega Y: Fire/Fairy
Still keeping the flavor, while having the regular forme and megas covering each other's weaknesses. Except for Ground types, but I guess that's what you get for keeping the Fire typing. Regular Charizard takes Water moves more comfortably than its megas, Mega X patches up the Rock weakness of regular Charizard and the Poison weakness of Mega Y, while Mega Y resists Fighting type moves that Mega X is weak to. Oh, and both of the megas take Dragon moves comfortably.
Blastoise and Mega: Water/Poison
Yes it's now basically Tentacruel, but I'm pretty sure we'll change that one later on so it probably wouldn't be much of a problem. Water/Poison, while not resisting Ghost types aka spinblocker STAB, can take Fighting moves - the main coverage of Ghost types - comfortably, giving it a better chance at taking hits from the spinblockers.
Mega Venusaur: Grass/Rock
Grass/Steel is a good defensive typing, giving it resistances to Water, Fairy and Dragon, as well as taking neutral hits from Flying, Ground and Ice. Grass/Rock has an unexpectedly good coverage, so I went with that.
Charizard: Fire/Dragon
Charizard Mega X: Fire/Steel
Charizard Mega Y: Fire/Fairy
Still keeping the flavor, while having the regular forme and megas covering each other's weaknesses. Except for Ground types, but I guess that's what you get for keeping the Fire typing. Regular Charizard takes Water moves more comfortably than its megas, Mega X patches up the Rock weakness of regular Charizard and the Poison weakness of Mega Y, while Mega Y resists Fighting type moves that Mega X is weak to. Oh, and both of the megas take Dragon moves comfortably.
Blastoise and Mega: Water/Poison
Yes it's now basically Tentacruel, but I'm pretty sure we'll change that one later on so it probably wouldn't be much of a problem. Water/Poison, while not resisting Ghost types aka spinblocker STAB, can take Fighting moves - the main coverage of Ghost types - comfortably, giving it a better chance at taking hits from the spinblockers.
Venusaur: Grass/Rock
Venusaur Mega: Grass/Ground
Grass Rock is a Great defensive typing, while Grass/Ground has it's bad points, it's a very good offensive typing, it gives neutral coverage against most types, and because of that double ice weakness, mega evolving may be held back, until when you need it the most
Charizard: Fire (Reducing the SR weakness)
Everthing that I wanted for Charizard's mega evos that made sense have alredy been submitted.
Blastoise and mega: Steel/Poison
The concept says Blastoise should be steel type. Poison leaves it immune to toxic spikes(while nullyifying them), and makes it a good hazard remover.
Venusaur Mega: Grass/Ground
Grass Rock is a Great defensive typing, while Grass/Ground has it's bad points, it's a very good offensive typing, it gives neutral coverage against most types, and because of that double ice weakness, mega evolving may be held back, until when you need it the most
Charizard: Fire (Reducing the SR weakness)
Everthing that I wanted for Charizard's mega evos that made sense have alredy been submitted.
Blastoise and mega: Steel/Poison
The concept says Blastoise should be steel type. Poison leaves it immune to toxic spikes(while nullyifying them), and makes it a good hazard remover.
It's time for voting again! I hope this will turn out well.
Venusaur (N=Normal, M=Mega, X = Mega X, Y=Mega Y)
Snaquaza: N: Flying Fairy, M: Ground Fairy
The Reptile: N: Grass Poison, M: Grass Ground
zerobreaker000: N: Grass Steel, M: Grass Rock
Amitghosh: N: Grass Rock, M: Grass Ground
Charizard
Snaquaza: N: Steel Dragon, X: Fire Psychic, Y: Dragon Dark
The Reptile: N: Fire Flying, X: Fire Dark, Y: Fire Flying
zerobreaker000: N: Fire Dragon, X: Fire Steel, Y: Fire Fairy
Amitghosh: N: Fire, X: Fire, Y: Fire
Blastoise
Snaquaza: N: Poison Dark, M: Poison Dark
The Reptile: N: Water Steel, M: Water Steel
zerobreaker000: N: Water Poison, M: Water Poison
Amitghosh: N: Steel Poison, M: Steel Poison
On another note, I've added to add two people to the council! Congrats to Phione and The Reptile . Both have contributed well in this project, and generally giving clear and good commentary! Grats both!
Venusaur (N=Normal, M=Mega, X = Mega X, Y=Mega Y)
Snaquaza: N: Flying Fairy, M: Ground Fairy
The Reptile: N: Grass Poison, M: Grass Ground
zerobreaker000: N: Grass Steel, M: Grass Rock
Amitghosh: N: Grass Rock, M: Grass Ground
Charizard
Snaquaza: N: Steel Dragon, X: Fire Psychic, Y: Dragon Dark
The Reptile: N: Fire Flying, X: Fire Dark, Y: Fire Flying
zerobreaker000: N: Fire Dragon, X: Fire Steel, Y: Fire Fairy
Amitghosh: N: Fire, X: Fire, Y: Fire
Blastoise
Snaquaza: N: Poison Dark, M: Poison Dark
The Reptile: N: Water Steel, M: Water Steel
zerobreaker000: N: Water Poison, M: Water Poison
Amitghosh: N: Steel Poison, M: Steel Poison
On another note, I've added to add two people to the council! Congrats to Phione and The Reptile . Both have contributed well in this project, and generally giving clear and good commentary! Grats both!
Feels somewhat cheap for voting for my own entry, but eh whatever.
Venusaur: zerobreaker000
Charizard: zerobreaker000
Blastoise: TheReptile
Venusaur: zerobreaker000
Charizard: zerobreaker000
Blastoise: TheReptile