Or, we can do something new (for our series) where you are allowed to switch but aren't allowed to know what the opponent's Pokemon is. I've seen a ROM Hack do that. Of course if we have team preview then it's a moot point, but it's an idea
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Other Pokemon: Smogon Version OU [Route 4]
- Thread starter Chou Toshio
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As cool as that sounds, I think that we should be focusing on emulating the competitive environment as much as possible while still being an actual game. I think forcing set is the simplest and best solution here.
What do you guys think about team preview for trainer battles? Yay or nay?
i still didn't get the names of the protagonist #proudnoob
I think team preview must be available only in important battles, like every battle in gyms(trainer and leader alike), TLS grunts that are supposed to be strong, their Commanders/Officials and the Boss.
Also, i don't think we've sorted out the HM problem. Normally after the 1st gym(sometimes later), we get HM Cut, and it's necessary to move further in the game. I remember someone proposed that we allow the user the use of HMs simply if they have it(whoever it was has the credit). Another was to replace them with other items like boat and axe( a la Ash Gray, credit to the one who posted). And although it's a bit early to talk about caves, but many caves require rock smash and/or strength to move around, so i think we should sort these out earlier as well.
I think team preview must be available only in important battles, like every battle in gyms(trainer and leader alike), TLS grunts that are supposed to be strong, their Commanders/Officials and the Boss.
Also, i don't think we've sorted out the HM problem. Normally after the 1st gym(sometimes later), we get HM Cut, and it's necessary to move further in the game. I remember someone proposed that we allow the user the use of HMs simply if they have it(whoever it was has the credit). Another was to replace them with other items like boat and axe( a la Ash Gray, credit to the one who posted). And although it's a bit early to talk about caves, but many caves require rock smash and/or strength to move around, so i think we should sort these out earlier as well.
Only in important battles? Why not have it available for all trainer battles? Our goal is to have the vast majority of trainers using serious (or as serious as you can get with the constraints of being in-game) teams, with the exception of the occasional mythology gag and silly TLS grunt. Can you explain your reasoning for not having it available for all trainer battles?
As for the HM problem, there are a lot of ways we can deal with it. One is to simply ignore uncompetitive HMs like cut and rock smash. Another is to include them but make them easier to unlearn. There are the perfectly valid options you mentioned. There are many options, and none of them are bad ones, it depends largely on how much we want to emulate an "authentic" in game experience and how much we want to emulate the competitive OU scene. Strength puzzles and surf routes aren't really part of OU, but are extremely memorable parts of the in game experience, how much do we want to care about them?
Note that for the problem of HM fly, if we decide not to include it we can have the pokemon centers contain an Abra, who can teleport you to places in your memory (aka, other pokemon centers you've visited before). It would be easy enough to do. Given that Zam is still plenty OU viable, there is nothing wrong with Abra appearing in the SmogSmog region.
While I'm still on that train of thought, we should definitely have TM hidden power available near the route Abra is found, cuz grinding up a mon with no attack moves sucks hard core.
honestly, no i can't. It was just intuitive, so i won't even back it up. But i'll say that i was thinking about how team preview wasn't available until gen5, and i thought we should let the player have a feel of that, but this arguement is unviable as our region is gen6 oriented.WebBowser said:
I don't think it wise to introduce an Abra here, because it leads to other things which aren't that important atm. First of all, we'll, as you said, need Hidden Power to be present, which leads to that we it to be of our choice, which requires us to mess about with IVs, which needs an IV Guru or something. So, doing all this just because we want an Abra available doesn't sound convenient.WebBowser said:
Also, we don't need Abra atm. We haven't come much far from Golurkmoar, i don't think travelling back from the 4th town should be an issue as well, so i say we introduce Kadabra after the 4th town.
What we can do is let Abra be in the Pokemon Centres, but not available in the wild just now. It'll teleport us back if we want to, so that's that solved.
As for Fly, i think we should let it be, as it has nice power, no recoil, and it's mechanic is interesting as well which'll give the player an opportunity to experiment, and also fly somewhere else when he/she's nowhere near a PC
ps:someone pls explain me the logic behind the protagonists' names
Sorry for double posting, but i think this deserves another post:
ORAS is round the corner, and it'll bring new moves, megas, and probably mechanics and abilities, so what do we do when it's released. It'll surely change the OU meta significantly, which may render our efforts here useless 'cos there'll be new OU viable things then which we'll have to take care of. We'll surely not finish this by then, and maybe we can just adjust the new things on the way, but still i would like to know what others think about this, specially Chou Toshio and Salemance
ORAS is round the corner, and it'll bring new moves, megas, and probably mechanics and abilities, so what do we do when it's released. It'll surely change the OU meta significantly, which may render our efforts here useless 'cos there'll be new OU viable things then which we'll have to take care of. We'll surely not finish this by then, and maybe we can just adjust the new things on the way, but still i would like to know what others think about this, specially Chou Toshio and Salemance
Oh, I never was proposing abra for this route. That was more of a very random thought that occurred to me because I was talking about having abra as an NPC in pokemon centers.
For the protags names, take the first letter of both names and slap them together.
*edit*
Frankly, abra can be running HP bug for all I care, anything is better then friggen mono-teleport. I don't think we need an IV guru right when we get abra, but I do agree that something of the sort should be available at some point.
This wont drastically change it (cause frankly we can always add the said viable things in later through editing).
HM's are gonna be same to how they usually been (one idea me and cho enjoyed early on was the fact someone suggested that later on when Luck Sack is a major pain in the ass, the deliberately add areas in their bases that force to you use the HM to advance through the complex, IE making it wher you have to teach said move to something) but id rather get the new route discussion going eventually.........
Also, you obviously aren't gonna be using team preview for something like the sixth bug trainer I think. maybe when stuff s important, sure, but I don't think its necessary in the forest and stuff.
Question: why is this statement obvious? I am legitimately curious as to why team preview shouldn't be there for every battle. There are a few strats out there that would be just plain mean without team preview, ranging from gimmicky (Zororark, perish trapping, shadow tag in general) to very OU viable and frightening (such as gyarados + manectric, trick goth, my scolipass team). I really haven't seen a good reason not to have team preview.
Idk, part of that seemed like a slip of the phrase (do forgive me, I just got done spending the better part of two days trying to help a friend file a lawsuit alongside the EEO so im a little boggled) and idk, part of me didn't think it was. I guess it might as well be there for all of em then cause I really don't know. Sorry bout that post but im sorta running on empty and typed what I thought.
Here's an idea for the HM's: look at pokemon zeta/omicron, two great rom hacks. What they did and what I think we should do, is that HM's work normally within the game but there are secret items hidden in the game that let you use them without teaching the move- EG: the. Dolly lets you use Strength without anyone knowing the move.
Also, something that they did was the Iv stones. When you find one, you take it to a man and he changes your pokemon's IV to 31 or 30! These could be scattered around the region, and after you beat the elite four you get to buy them for 1000$ or something. Which reminds me- in this game you also have the ability to look at your pokemon's IV's directly, something which should be applied here.
Finally, we need some way to modify natures within the game, or alter the wild pokemon such that they can only have certain natures.
Also, something that they did was the Iv stones. When you find one, you take it to a man and he changes your pokemon's IV to 31 or 30! These could be scattered around the region, and after you beat the elite four you get to buy them for 1000$ or something. Which reminds me- in this game you also have the ability to look at your pokemon's IV's directly, something which should be applied here.
Finally, we need some way to modify natures within the game, or alter the wild pokemon such that they can only have certain natures.
The breeding is unnecessary due to the amount of breeding facilities we have offered to the people. If we wanted it to where they didn't have to breed for natures, might as well just put it on a simulator.
ok so about Team Preview-none of the opponents atm have 6 pokes, nor do we(i guess), so maybe we could let it be like how GF works it in-game until we have our first 6v6 battle, or simply when we face an opponent with 6 pokes for the 1st time. Since i believe that the first such battle will be in the gym, i think the guy who helps us with the League challenge should give us something that enables team preview..
League Challenge Helper:...the usual "Welcome to the Pokemon League Challenge..."stuff..."Oh, it seems you haven't faced an opponent who uses six Pokemon yet! You should know that everyone who uses a sensible team in this region uses six pokemon. Ofc if you haven't came across the Pokemon you desire, that's understandable. Here, have this!"...gives some goggle or w/e we decide it to be..."These are Smart Goggles! These enable you to see all the Pokemon your opponent has at the start of a battle. This is a very important tool if you're serious about the League Challenge. Every Gym, and the Pokemon League, uses these, so that means they can see your team as well"...w/e else we want to add, like giving off fresh water etc. Later we can have TLS steal these from somewhere 'cos they found out how outdated they were.
PS:Realised it went way ahead of the present, but all was aimed at doing something about Team Preview
League Challenge Helper:...the usual "Welcome to the Pokemon League Challenge..."stuff..."Oh, it seems you haven't faced an opponent who uses six Pokemon yet! You should know that everyone who uses a sensible team in this region uses six pokemon. Ofc if you haven't came across the Pokemon you desire, that's understandable. Here, have this!"...gives some goggle or w/e we decide it to be..."These are Smart Goggles! These enable you to see all the Pokemon your opponent has at the start of a battle. This is a very important tool if you're serious about the League Challenge. Every Gym, and the Pokemon League, uses these, so that means they can see your team as well"...w/e else we want to add, like giving off fresh water etc. Later we can have TLS steal these from somewhere 'cos they found out how outdated they were.
PS:Realised it went way ahead of the present, but all was aimed at doing something about Team Preview
Ugh, sorry I have been out of it for a while guys. I have had no internet at my apartment, and can't look at Smogon from my company laptop... I'm back at my folk's place this weekend, but during the week, while I am following this thread by my cell phone (and its crappy data plan), doing a lot of heavy lifting for this thread had been tough. I should be able to sort this out in the coming weeks..
In the mean time, the OP has been updated to include the wrap-up posts for Town 2, Route 2, and Tiemsix forest.
Note, there IS another route here in-between here and the next town, but I honestly think this route should just be a super-short walk-right-through area.
So consider this the summary/wrap up of the "2nd Half" of Route 2:
Wild Pokemon:
Grass:
-Fletchling (Common)
-Bunnelby (Common)
-Venipede (Common)
-Timbur (uncommon)
Items:
-Antidote (hidden)
-Return TM (Obvious)
Now let's start the discussion for Town 3!
NOMINATIONS FOR STORY LINE/NORMAL NPCS/TOWN FEATURES (Stores etc.) is now OPEN.
This will be the first Town WITH A GYM.
I will give a few type nominations for this gym, and based on votes (please bold your vote) over the next few days, we will choose the type for the gym. These types nominated for the first gym are from those types that are less representative/influential on the OU metagame.
-Rock
-Grass
-Psychic
-Fire
-Normal
-Poison
After we are finished choosing the type for the gym, we will start taking noms for Gym Leader designs. Remember that designs should include:
-A design based on a well-known Smogon Battler
-6 Pokemon Suggestions
-1-2 of which are "wild cards" that don't necessarily have to use the Gym's Type
NO DESIGNS WILL BE ACCEPTED UNTIL AFTER THE GYM'S TYPE IS CHOSEN. THESE SUBMISSIONS WILL BE DELETED
In the mean time, the OP has been updated to include the wrap-up posts for Town 2, Route 2, and Tiemsix forest.
Note, there IS another route here in-between here and the next town, but I honestly think this route should just be a super-short walk-right-through area.
So consider this the summary/wrap up of the "2nd Half" of Route 2:
Wild Pokemon:
Grass:
-Fletchling (Common)
-Bunnelby (Common)
-Venipede (Common)
-Timbur (uncommon)
Items:
-Antidote (hidden)
-Return TM (Obvious)
Now let's start the discussion for Town 3!
NOMINATIONS FOR STORY LINE/NORMAL NPCS/TOWN FEATURES (Stores etc.) is now OPEN.
This will be the first Town WITH A GYM.
I will give a few type nominations for this gym, and based on votes (please bold your vote) over the next few days, we will choose the type for the gym. These types nominated for the first gym are from those types that are less representative/influential on the OU metagame.
-Rock
-Grass
-Psychic
-Fire
-Normal
-Poison
After we are finished choosing the type for the gym, we will start taking noms for Gym Leader designs. Remember that designs should include:
-A design based on a well-known Smogon Battler
-6 Pokemon Suggestions
-1-2 of which are "wild cards" that don't necessarily have to use the Gym's Type
NO DESIGNS WILL BE ACCEPTED UNTIL AFTER THE GYM'S TYPE IS CHOSEN. THESE SUBMISSIONS WILL BE DELETED
I like to nominate: Rock
Pokemon Flavour:
Rock has been the opening gym in 3 generations of Pokemon with only Johto and Unova not having a Rock type Gym Leader. In Johto you got to battle Brock anyway so only 1 gen of Pokemon did not have a Rock type Leader. Keeping in tradition as well, Rock plays well with having 1 start struggle whilst 2 thrive against it.
OU Flavour:
The Rock type provides the move Stealth Rocks which has been OU defining for 3 generations. Stealth Rocks are one of the reasons Talonflame and Mega Pinsir aren't considered for suspect tests and many other Pokemon are left in UU and below. Has been less of an issue in this generation. Rock also is linked with Sandstorm. Weather has been huge in recent gens, particularly gen 5 and can give another element of gameplay to introduce to the player. Sandstorm also has 2 users that are both OU whilst other weather inducers do not.
Learning tools:
Rock will also help introduce new players to concepts such as weather and entry hazards which are vital to know if you want to succeed in OU. With the SR move tutor on Route 1, this will be more helpful for players to learn what that move really is about.
Reasons for not other types:
Grass: We just got out of the forest. Think Emerald with surfing and 2 water type users
Psychic: No Pokemon yet would have a decent type advantage. I know not that big of a problem but still a problem if trying to make casuals into OU players
Fire: A big type in OU (Talonflame, Charizards) deserves a bigger gym
Normal: Too bland of a gym to be the first one. Feels cop outish
Poison: Same as Psychic but not much of a reason. Could understand as opening gym.
Tower features:
A building running with the theme of the gym so Museum or Mine with Rock, garden bed with grass etc.
Pokemon Flavour:
Rock has been the opening gym in 3 generations of Pokemon with only Johto and Unova not having a Rock type Gym Leader. In Johto you got to battle Brock anyway so only 1 gen of Pokemon did not have a Rock type Leader. Keeping in tradition as well, Rock plays well with having 1 start struggle whilst 2 thrive against it.
OU Flavour:
The Rock type provides the move Stealth Rocks which has been OU defining for 3 generations. Stealth Rocks are one of the reasons Talonflame and Mega Pinsir aren't considered for suspect tests and many other Pokemon are left in UU and below. Has been less of an issue in this generation. Rock also is linked with Sandstorm. Weather has been huge in recent gens, particularly gen 5 and can give another element of gameplay to introduce to the player. Sandstorm also has 2 users that are both OU whilst other weather inducers do not.
Learning tools:
Rock will also help introduce new players to concepts such as weather and entry hazards which are vital to know if you want to succeed in OU. With the SR move tutor on Route 1, this will be more helpful for players to learn what that move really is about.
Reasons for not other types:
Grass: We just got out of the forest. Think Emerald with surfing and 2 water type users
Psychic: No Pokemon yet would have a decent type advantage. I know not that big of a problem but still a problem if trying to make casuals into OU players
Fire: A big type in OU (Talonflame, Charizards) deserves a bigger gym
Normal: Too bland of a gym to be the first one. Feels cop outish
Poison: Same as Psychic but not much of a reason. Could understand as opening gym.
Tower features:
A building running with the theme of the gym so Museum or Mine with Rock, garden bed with grass etc.
Rock
Why? Cos it is the first gym most of the time. Also, it makes sense if the first gym show the might of sr, specially if you bring charmander and/or fletchling.
I'm on phone atm so will make a few nominations later
Why? Cos it is the first gym most of the time. Also, it makes sense if the first gym show the might of sr, specially if you bring charmander and/or fletchling.
I'm on phone atm so will make a few nominations later
I don't think that diggersby and azumarill should be in the gym as they would rip through teams atm, but that comes later so for now let's stick with the gym type and other town features
First of all, Rock. I definitely would support it just for it to give a TM and showcase of Stealth Rock, if not that there is Stealth Rock move tutor on the first route. Not sure if giving Stone Miss after the first gym is a good idea. Luck being luck, but not sure if starting with luck based strategies is a good idea.
Grass is okay, I guess. It's a bad type, but something that the player can be prepared for at this point of game with all those birds and bugs on first routes, and it has some interesting options (just don't use Abomasnow, this thing will harm the team, and let's not use Soundproof Abomasnow, because that thing is pointless). Not as much as other types, however.
Psychic is definitely powerful. Without access to Knock Off in early game, I definitely wouldn't put it as a first gym, and Scolipede is weak to Psychic attacks (hi, Gen1 Beedrill).
Fire is Fire. It has many powerful mons, but it also shows the power of Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock will be available before this gym, then it's definitely an option, but I'm still not sure about starting with it.
Normal is not weak to any of starter types, which makes it great for a first gym. Granted, this type was always problematic in main games, but with competitive background, it might be less of issue. Just make sure there are fighting attacks available.
Poison is weak to Ground and Psychic. Do we have Earthquake available? Do we have psychic attacks available? I doubt so.
I vote for Grass. However, if we would remove Stealth Rock move tutor on first route, Rock is an option too.
Grass is okay, I guess. It's a bad type, but something that the player can be prepared for at this point of game with all those birds and bugs on first routes, and it has some interesting options (just don't use Abomasnow, this thing will harm the team, and let's not use Soundproof Abomasnow, because that thing is pointless). Not as much as other types, however.
Psychic is definitely powerful. Without access to Knock Off in early game, I definitely wouldn't put it as a first gym, and Scolipede is weak to Psychic attacks (hi, Gen1 Beedrill).
Fire is Fire. It has many powerful mons, but it also shows the power of Stealth Rock. If Stealth Rock will be available before this gym, then it's definitely an option, but I'm still not sure about starting with it.
Normal is not weak to any of starter types, which makes it great for a first gym. Granted, this type was always problematic in main games, but with competitive background, it might be less of issue. Just make sure there are fighting attacks available.
Poison is weak to Ground and Psychic. Do we have Earthquake available? Do we have psychic attacks available? I doubt so.
I vote for Grass. However, if we would remove Stealth Rock move tutor on first route, Rock is an option too.
I feel like most of these types have their own signature pokemon which the Gym Leader needs to use but aren't available yet.
Rock- Tyranitar, Terrakion
Grass/Poison- Mega Venusaur
Psychic- Mega Alakazam (Mega Gardevoir is more of a Fairy)
Fire- Charizard
I'm desperate to see a Rock-Type Gym leader wielding Tyranitar. I think some of these Gyms should be preserved until we can put the best possible pokemon into them. The Normal Types with the highest viability (Diggersby and Chansey) are already available. Diggersby and Chansey are the best possible Normal Types.
Rock- Tyranitar, Terrakion
Grass/Poison- Mega Venusaur
Psychic- Mega Alakazam (Mega Gardevoir is more of a Fairy)
Fire- Charizard
I'm desperate to see a Rock-Type Gym leader wielding Tyranitar. I think some of these Gyms should be preserved until we can put the best possible pokemon into them. The Normal Types with the highest viability (Diggersby and Chansey) are already available. Diggersby and Chansey are the best possible Normal Types.
I think we should for the first gym use a type that can be hit at least neutrally (not counting dual types) by all starters and thus not overly punishing the player for choosing any of the starters.. For example, normal, bug type or ground type would be a good start. I'd like to save the more "awesome" sounding types that also fit the bill for much later, for example Ghost and Fairy types.
You know, this whole "signature Pokemon" thing? I have a solution. Gym rematches. Just sayin.
Agreeing with X5Dragon for the "Neutural coverage" first gym. Unless we do what Unova did and change the gym to suit a different starter. The only problem is that with the Neutural thing, we could only choose Normal and Psychic. So meh f*ck that idea.
I'm going with Normal as well, a good clean type, with a lot of variance ^^
Agreeing with X5Dragon for the "Neutural coverage" first gym. Unless we do what Unova did and change the gym to suit a different starter. The only problem is that with the Neutural thing, we could only choose Normal and Psychic. So meh f*ck that idea.
I'm going with Normal as well, a good clean type, with a lot of variance ^^
But a lv 20 t-tar or terrakion is just absurd.
A level 20 Larvitar isn't.
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