Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets

non giga drain.PNG


This is straight up ridiculous, no sugar coating it.

At least get rid of maybe Toxic Spikes and replace it with Giga Drain or Leaf Storm. I don't really care what grass attack as long as it isn't excluded from the 4 move slots, just give me a grass attack.

x_x
 

Tiksi

be of good cheer : )
is a Battle Server Moderator
rest (even nat cure rest) plus two hazards isnt good, but theres no way to force which decent stab you get (bomb is still a decent stab) and im pretty sure roses movepool makes mono sludge bomb attacking pretty rare (making this rare-bad but not murderously-bad luck)
 
I just got the worst Groudon set I have ever seen in my life:

Thunder Wave
Toxic
Roar
Earthquake

@ Leftovers

I couldn't make a worse set if I tried.

(Proposal for improvement: Groudon should be limited to maximum 2 non-attacking moves)
 
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1533245693216.png

Issue: the Random Battles set generation algorithm does not check the base Speed of Pokemon with Switcheroo (and maybe Trick) when deciding to give a Choice Scarf. Therefore, Pokemon outside of the normal base 60-108 Speed range such as Dhelmise and Noivern can run a Choice Scarf, despite this being blatantly an error.

What follows is the code responsible for this:
} else if (hasMove['switcheroo'] || hasMove['trick']) {

let randomBool = this.randomChance(2, 3);

if (counter.Physical >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Band';

} else if (counter.Special >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Specs';

} else {

item = 'Choice Scarf';
}

I'm not capable of interpreting this exactly, but all I know is that this code TRIES to make sure that mons outside of the 60-108 range don't get a scarf, but fails to actually do so in practice. I'd appreciate if this could be fixed soon, as Choice Scarf Dhelmise really shouldn't exist.
 

MacChaeger

Kick em to the curb unless they look like MacChaeg
is a Programmeris a Battle Server Moderator
View attachment 130659
View attachment 130660
Issue: the Random Battles set generation algorithm does not check the base Speed of Pokemon with Switcheroo (and maybe Trick) when deciding to give a Choice Scarf. Therefore, Pokemon outside of the normal base 60-108 Speed range such as Dhelmise and Noivern can run a Choice Scarf, despite this being blatantly an error.

What follows is the code responsible for this:
} else if (hasMove['switcheroo'] || hasMove['trick']) {

let randomBool = this.randomChance(2, 3);

if (counter.Physical >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Band';

} else if (counter.Special >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Specs';

} else {

item = 'Choice Scarf';
}

I'm not capable of interpreting this exactly, but all I know is that this code TRIES to make sure that mons outside of the 60-108 range don't get a scarf, but fails to actually do so in practice. I'd appreciate if this could be fixed soon, as Choice Scarf Dhelmise really shouldn't exist.
If I’m interpreting the code right, this kind of thing happens when these Pokémon have “mixed” sets; that is, their moves other than Trick/Switcheroo aren’t all in the same category. This is why Scarf Dhelmise always has Swords Dance, and Scarf Noivern always has U-Turn, Roost, or Taunt. A possible change would be to check the speed range/random condition first, then determine whether to give a Band or Specs, and only ever giving a Scarf outside of the speed range. That said, checking based on the actual base speed value is pointlessly naïve in a meta where Pokémon can be different levels; right now, Delphox and Latios have exactly the same speed stat in randbats (209) but Delphox only gets Specs on the roll, while Latios always gets Spes unless it has Defog or Roost. I’m aware that certain item decisions can affect level, or they have in the past, but those cases are few and far between, and can easily be separated from the main if-else chain that governs items so that level and stats can be calculated first.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
View attachment 130659
View attachment 130660
Issue: the Random Battles set generation algorithm does not check the base Speed of Pokemon with Switcheroo (and maybe Trick) when deciding to give a Choice Scarf. Therefore, Pokemon outside of the normal base 60-108 Speed range such as Dhelmise and Noivern can run a Choice Scarf, despite this being blatantly an error.

What follows is the code responsible for this:
} else if (hasMove['switcheroo'] || hasMove['trick']) {

let randomBool = this.randomChance(2, 3);

if (counter.Physical >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Band';

} else if (counter.Special >= 3 && (template.baseStats.spe < 60 || template.baseStats.spe > 108 || randomBool)) {

item = 'Choice Specs';

} else {

item = 'Choice Scarf';
}

I'm not capable of interpreting this exactly, but all I know is that this code TRIES to make sure that mons outside of the 60-108 range don't get a scarf, but fails to actually do so in practice. I'd appreciate if this could be fixed soon, as Choice Scarf Dhelmise really shouldn't exist.
Fixed.
 

Issue: Iron Head should be removed from Kingdra to increase the possibility of getting actually decent sets.

First, let us discuss the positives of Iron Head: Iron Head hits Dragon/Fairy and Grass/Fairy type Pokemon harder than Rain-boosted Waterfall. That's it. In other words, Iron Head is only useful for Mega Altaria, Shiinotic, Tapu Bulu, and Whimsicott, which is only four Pokemon total, in all of Random Battles.

Now, the downside of having Iron Head as a possible move may not be obvious at first, but Iron Head's mere existence creates heavy issues with Kingdra's item and set generation.

- It makes Substitute + 3 Attacks sets incredibly more common than they would be otherwise (In fact, removing Iron Head may delete Sub + 3 Attacks altogether, assuming Hydro Pump cannot be generated with Waterfall, as it looks like in the code, and Draco Meteor can't be generated with Substitute, also as seen in the code.)

- It makes AV Kingdra possible, as there is no other way, given the randbats moveset generation algorithm, for Kingdra to be generated with four attacks as far as I know.

Removing Iron Head from Kingdra's moveset would make the likelihood of getting Rain Dance and/or Dragon Dance sets significantly higher and would therefore make Kingdra significantly better than it currently is in Random Battles, at the cost of a coverage move that only hits four Pokemon total.
 
A few things...

1) Proposal: Tapu Koko should have Roost added to its sets as a potential move.

Reasoning: Roost has been shown to viable on Tapu Koko in OU and does not require a significant change in the current Randbats Tapu Koko set, which tends to be Expert Belt (or the rare Sash) and some combination of Brave Bird / Nature's Madness / Wild Charge / Volt Switch / U-Turn / Dazzling Gleam. You can literally slap Roost on there as an extra move with no other modification to the code.


2) Bug Report: Mega Kangaskhan's Parental Bond has been doing equal damage on the first and second hits. I've heard that everyone up top is aware but I'm posting it here as well so that anyone who reads this thread isn't surprised if it happens in-game and can adjust accordingly.


3) Opinion: Minior is seriously broken. At least Geoxern can be statused, Kartana can be outsped and Ultra Necrozma doesn't boost as quickly.

That is all. Now back to your regularly scheduled Random Battles!
 

Tiksi

be of good cheer : )
is a Battle Server Moderator
a big reason roost koko is good in ou is the bunch of bulky cores at teambuilder that give it damage low enough to be roosted off; especially with level balance further tanking its bulk im worried thats not as much the case here. random consistently has lots of fast pace, unpredictability, random setup attackers, and offense that make kokos hard hitting moves more valuable (which roost takes a spot of) and could make roost less tenable longterm than in ou.
also unlike ou you cant guarantee roost+volt switch gets hp ice so grounds dont shred you, and you cant change item to like fairium z for less passivity and may end up with like lefties probably
 
Last edited:

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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Other Metas Leader
Changing Victreebel's possible moves in the next update, which should fix any bad sets


Issue: Iron Head should be removed from Kingdra to increase the possibility of getting actually decent sets.

First, let us discuss the positives of Iron Head: Iron Head hits Dragon/Fairy and Grass/Fairy type Pokemon harder than Rain-boosted Waterfall. That's it. In other words, Iron Head is only useful for Mega Altaria, Shiinotic, Tapu Bulu, and Whimsicott, which is only four Pokemon total, in all of Random Battles.

Now, the downside of having Iron Head as a possible move may not be obvious at first, but Iron Head's mere existence creates heavy issues with Kingdra's item and set generation.

- It makes Substitute + 3 Attacks sets incredibly more common than they would be otherwise (In fact, removing Iron Head may delete Sub + 3 Attacks altogether, assuming Hydro Pump cannot be generated with Waterfall, as it looks like in the code, and Draco Meteor can't be generated with Substitute, also as seen in the code.)

- It makes AV Kingdra possible, as there is no other way, given the randbats moveset generation algorithm, for Kingdra to be generated with four attacks as far as I know.

Removing Iron Head from Kingdra's moveset would make the likelihood of getting Rain Dance and/or Dragon Dance sets significantly higher and would therefore make Kingdra significantly better than it currently is in Random Battles, at the cost of a coverage move that only hits four Pokemon total.
Kingdra too

Currently Volbeat uses Bug Buzz in its randbats set despite getting Lunge as an egg move in USUM which completely outclasses it due to Volbeat's physical attack being higher and a guaranteed attack drop.
Removing Bug Buzz

View attachment 129271
so no one else thinks getting hurricane over oblivion wing is an issue?
hurricane is just so obviously inferior, i dont care about 30% confusion, i need the reliability of 100% acc and i really think its appreciates the recovery a hell of a lot more in a 1v1 then it cares about dealing like 40% instead of 35% damage on neutral hits (if it hits)

here is a more direct comparision
value of hurricane:
110*.7 (for 70% accuracy) = 77 damage per turn accounting for acc
confusion chance .7*.3 = 21% chance per turn accounting for acc then 33% chance to proc per turn

80*100 (80) = 80 damage per turn
75% heal damage dealt (100% acc) =
worst cases
(6.2 - 7.2% recovered) on 217 hp lvl 77 stakataka for 13.45400 min recovery
(5.5 - 6.6 % recovered) on 262 hp lvl 86 probopass for 14.41 min recovery
best cases
(49.3 - 59% recovered) on 265 hp lvl 86 sunflora for 130.64500 min recovery
(71.5% recovery) on 287 hp lvl 77 buzzwole for 205.20500 recovery (2/3rds yveltals hp)

towards the lower end it might be negligible but neutral hits are already decent recovery

so the only ways hurricane beats oblivion wing are through rain which, as mentioned previously, isn't likely or reliable when you do have pokemon that can generate rain, or through massive confusion rng, not only does hurricane need to hit, then confusion needs to stick, then it needs another check to see if it even does anything, granted if it happens the free turn isn't negligible, but its so unreliable it might as well not exist, as well confusion is easily dealt with by swapping.
Will do
 
I honestly don't know what to say here. Conversion outside of Z-Conversion is nowhere near viable, maybe if this was adapt it would be slightly better? Or maybe Ice Beam/Thunderbolt > Conversion in this scenario?
Analysis of code indicates that the unlucky order chosen was approximately [Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Nasty Plot, Shadow Ball, Trick, Conversion, Tri Attack]. This causes the first two moves to be rejected due to lack of STAB, and then Nasty Plot because of the presence of a "superior" setup move (namely Conversion), and then suddenly you're out of moves in the pool and get stuck with the last one.

AKA this is kind of set glitch is literally the hardest kind to fix and is a complete pain, but at the same time should only happen on like 1/800 of Porygon-Z sets if my probability analysis is correct (spoiler: it probably isn't correct)
 
As of right now we only have one "reroll" condition that I know of, specifically the "double setup" issue (nasty plot and swords dance in the same set for example) that once plagued this thread because of how common it was despite everything we tried to do to stop it, but instead of rolling again, we destroy the Pokemon and pick another one

A rejection condition should be used as a last resort though, and I don't want to wantonly kill everything that is slightly off if there's a way to fix it otherwise. In other words I'd rather solve the root cause than cover up the holes with our magical rejection condition tape. Random battles is always trying to keep making good enough sets and we always need to be cautious on what constitutes an "illegal" set because if we take it too far the format just becomes battle factory.

There's a good point about trick and setup moves being a potential problem, though. I'll see what I can do about that.
 
Hello. As of now, Mega Gallade gets:
  • Close Combat
  • Drain Punch
  • Zen Headbutt
  • Knock Off
  • Substitute
  • Swords Dance
Now, recently, I have been made aware of the fact that Gallade gets Earthquake. My reasoning for this is that one of Gallade's biggest problems has always been coverage. A fighting type move and a psychic type move are ok, but unless he gets Knock Off as well, he can get absolutely walled by those sneaky Dark/Ghost types. Mega Sableye, in particular, completely ends Mega Gallade, because even knock off won't do that much damage because Mega Sableye has a Mega Stone. Earthquake can also help Gallade get coverage over Fire and Electric types, and I, being a Gallade lover, would love to see Gallade being used more often in Random Battles.
 

Kalalokki

mobilizing for the war on christmas
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Hello. As of now, Mega Gallade gets:
  • Close Combat
  • Drain Punch
  • Zen Headbutt
  • Knock Off
  • Substitute
  • Swords Dance
Now, recently, I have been made aware of the fact that Gallade gets Earthquake. My reasoning for this is that one of Gallade's biggest problems has always been coverage. A fighting type move and a psychic type move are ok, but unless he gets Knock Off as well, he can get absolutely walled by those sneaky Dark/Ghost types. Mega Sableye, in particular, completely ends Mega Gallade, because even knock off won't do that much damage because Mega Sableye has a Mega Stone. Earthquake can also help Gallade get coverage over Fire and Electric types, and I, being a Gallade lover, would love to see Gallade being used more often in Random Battles.
Except it doesn't really deal with Mega Sableye anyway, you can't win in every matchup. Fighting hits basically everything Ground does already and Fire and Electric types usually doesn't resist Fighting/Psychic attacks, meaning you don't really gain that much in overall coverage.
 
Nothing too much wrong here, just has the wrong item for its moveset.

View attachment 132694
This is more wrong than you expect, because the game has explicitly rolled a chill Gene but somehow failed to give it techno blast, not just giving it the wrong item. This should never happen

and I, being a Gallade lover, would love to see Gallade being used more often in Random Battles.
It's random battles and there's literally no way that it having a "better set" is going to get it used more because I dunno, your chance of getting it and therefore using it is random???
 

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