SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword and Shield Datamine Thread

[tim rocket]

I hada list from a while ago, I think these are the only Pokemon that had no actual changes to their TM/TR moveset (just about every pokemon got Swift & Endure added),
Gen 1: 5 (Pidgey, Pidgeotto, Pidgeot, Paras, Parasect)
Gen 2: 6 (Unown, Teddiursa, Ursaring, Smeargle, Stantler)
Gen 3: 16 (Plusle, Minun, Gulpin, Swalot, Spinda, Cacnea, Cacturne, Zangoose, Castform, Kecleon, Tropius, Chimecho, Clamperl, Huntail, Gorebyss, Luvdisc)
Gen 4: 35 (Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Chimchar, Monferno, Infernape, Piplup, Prinplup, Empoleon, Starly, Staravia, Staraptor, Bidoof, Bibarel, Kricketot, Kricketune, Cranidos, Rampardos, Shieldon, Bastiodon, Pachirisu, Buizel, Floatzel, Glameow, Purugly, Chingling, Carnivine, Finneon, Lumineon, Phione, Manaphy, Shaymin, Arceus)
Gen 5: 33 (Snivy, Servine, Serperior, Tepig, Pignite, Emboar, Oshawott, Dewott, Samurott, Patrat, Watchog, Lillipup, Herdier, Stoutland, Pansage, Simisage, Pansear, Simisear, Panpour, Simipour, Blitzle, Zebstrika, Sewaddle, Swadloon, Leavanny, Ducklett, Swanna, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Alomomola, Tynamo, Eelektrik, Eelektross)
Gen 6: 23 (Chespin, Quilladin, Chesnaught, Fennekin, Braixen, Delphox, Froakie, Frogadier, Greninja, Scatterbug, Spewpa, Vivillon, Flabebe, Floette, Florges, Skiddo, Gogoat, Furfrou, Skrelp, Dragalge, Clauncher, Clawitzer, Hoopa)
Gen 7: 10 (Pikipek, Trumbeak, Toucannon, Yungoos, Gumshoos, Crabrawler, Crabominable, Oricorio, Minior, Bruxish)

not that Unown & Smeargle really mean anything....kind of dont get TMs anyway, and all.

I honestly don't think Pokémon who had their movesets changed in Home have any more of a chance to be added to the DLCs. As was said earlier, there are some Pokémon in SwSh right now that do not have changed movesets due to TMs/TRs, so a Pokémon being added to the games isn't guaranteed to have a changed moveset (only if it makes sense for a new TM/TR to be able to be taught to that Pokémon).

Also, the DLC is slated to only add around 200 returning/new Pokémon to the Galar dex (assuming there aren't more DLC afterwards), leaving more than 250 Pokémon not included in SwSh afterwards. However, there are only 125 Pokémon in this list, meaning that some of the Pokémon not added to the DLCs must have gotten updated movesets.

It makes sense to me that if you're forced to convert the Gen 7 learnset of TMs for each Pokémon not present in SwSh into the Gen 8 system of TMs and TRs (which excludes multiple previous TMs and adds a lot more) for Pokémon Home, adding certain moves to their learnset that make sense with their concept and are now TMs or TRs isn't much of a stretch.

 

[R_N]

The list was compiled back when the idea of "what if all the ones that had their movesets altered were getting in" was the big topic on everyone's minds. The fact there's over 300 pokemon that did is what makes me think, no, they aren't all coming back in this dlc, but it was a fun thought to divvy out into a break down list. And at least a little interesting to see the ones who got nothing.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Hopefully next year we see a 2nd Expansion Pass that adds in all the rest. Another $30 yayyy lol

 

[Worldie]

Hopefully next year we see a 2nd Expansion Pass that adds in all the rest. Another $30 yayyy lol

If you're telling me that you'd rather take another 120 € for another 2 games identical to the previous ones, but with Ultra in the title and possibly 30 mins more of gameplay if even, be my guest ;)

 

[Project_Mars]

If you're telling me that you'd rather take another 120 € for another 2 games identical to the previous ones, but with Ultra in the title and possibly 30 mins more of gameplay if even, be my guest ;)

Odds are they would have thrown in what we're getting in Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra in an "Ultra Sword and Ultra Shield" but probably would have combined it into a single new Wild Area instead of the two we're getting and charged full new game price for it. Although they may have not done the new Regis and Galarian Birbs in the process.

And going by past data it probably would have sold half as well as SwSh did worldwide. (about 8 mil)

 

[R_N]

Odds are they would have thrown in what we're getting in Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra in an "Ultra Sword and Ultra Shield" but probably would have combined it into a single new Wild Area instead of the two we're getting and charged full new game price for it. Although they may have not done the new Regis and Galarian Birbs in the process.

And going by past data it probably would have sold half as well as SwSh did worldwide. (about 8 mil)

I'm not so sure we'd have gotten a new wild area in a would be Ultra SWSH

USUM had...a few...new areas. But they were fairly small. It was a hand full of "fancy" set piece hallways, a very small handful of new normal areas (Pikachu Valley, that beach side cave, a couple new beaches) that were still fairly reigned in and the biggest thing being the Rainbow Rocket hideout. But even taken together, I dunno if I'd call most of them that complex; it was more the art team flexing their muscles

I think Ultra SWSH would have been roughly similar. Maybe there'd be a new PART of the wild area, but it'd be fairly limited (maybe shove a cathedral in there); meanwhile they added a few buildings here and there, maybe an actual gym for Raihan (let me have my dreams) and an actual Dungeon for Rose (LET ME HAVE MY DREAMS). I suspect most of the design effort would have gone to the other side stuff the DLC is giving, things like the gmax soup, the grammomatic, probably adding klara/avery as nother traveling rival, more pokemon of course, etc etc.
Like I could see Mustard being part of the game still, and giving yo ua Kubfu, but now instead of towers you'd take it across the land to beat up different Black Belts scattered around the region.

 

[Sirya]

If you're telling me that you'd rather take another 120 € for another 2 games identical to the previous ones, but with Ultra in the title and possibly 30 mins more of gameplay if even, be my guest ;)

Or even better, getting all the mons we are going to get in the DLC but from the beginning. Imagine.

 

[R_N]

Just a general reminder that even if there's another round of dlc the pokemon themselves would be in a free update. Getting the pokemon without transfer is, obviously, a selling point but the pokemon are strictly speaking free to obtain.

Honestly even without a second round of dlc I wouldn't be shocked if we just, like...had more free updates next year. Just, surprise! We finished them. Have a bunch of new raid events to get them without transfering, or whatever. That'd be one way to make getting a pidgey exciting, mm?

 

[Rarycaris]

If they do do it via another round of DLCs, we might very ironically get the first Pokemon games where every Pokemon in existence is available natively in a single game. I think, with the known DLCs, we will already be at the highest number available in one game by some margin.

Granted, a fairer comparison is probably number available natively within a generation, in which case we have some way to catch up with gen 6 (and I think 7).

 

[Worldie]

If they do do it via another round of DLCs, we might very ironically get the first Pokemon games where every Pokemon in existence is available natively in a single game. I think, with the known DLCs, we will already be at the highest number available in one game by some margin.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if with Tundra we'd already be. I thought USUM had way higher availability originally but I got pointed out that I was wrong and USUM still lacked ~140 species as native (without mentioning mythicals), and if I'm not wrong with Tundra we'd be ~200ish short of the full pokedex, but considering that the game has 80ish more pokemon than USUM...

 

[R_N]

Adjusting for their respective generations I think HGSS have the most available Pokemon in a single game thanks to the Safari Zone.
Though back when the dream world was running, BW2 might've beat it out.

 

[Hematite]

Adjusting for their respective generations I think HGSS have the most available Pokemon in a single game thanks to the Safari Zone.
Though back when the dream world was running, BW2 might've beat it out.

HGSS had 452, which is the most as of Gen IV (almost every Gen IV game was close to there, though - DP were 442 and Platinum was 447).
However, X and Y had 593 all to themselves - much more than a Gen IV game could possibly have included. They seem to be the record as of now!
For comparison, ORAS had 479, USUM managed 563 (and obviously SM had less of the Pokédex than USUM), and SwSh currently have 436 counting Slowpoke.
(SwSh with the DLC will eventually have 635+, which is the new record.)
The only possible competitor for XY is any Generation V game, depending how you count the Dream World - the only Pokémon missing from standard use of the Dream World by the end were starter Pokémon, Legendary Pokémon (some of which were in B2W2 anyway), Mythical Pokémon, the Pichu line and Unown, and even some of those were released by events, so there would have been very little left over if that's counted. Without the Dream World, B2W2 are down to 485, which is well over anything before it but still short of X and Y by more than a hundred.

Admittedly, it's sorta tough to figure out how to count events for this - how does one consider something like Shaymin or Regirock, which is uniquely implemented into Platinum but only with help from an external source? What about the same Shaymin in Diamond and Pearl, where it's implemented in the same way in Diamond and Pearl but was only released by itself as an event? How does that compare to Diancie, which is only available from an external source at all but was available in just a single game? Or should none of these count, since they're no longer available to a current player?
(Not gonna lie - I'm not sure whether I was even consistent about this when I counted these. Sorry OTL
Thankfully, other than the Dream World, no game except Platinum has more than five like this, so that shouldn't make enough of a difference to alter the order or anything! Just maybe be careful about quoting these numbers to anyone else, haha.)

Edit: ohhhhh, wait, you mean by percent! Whoops.
In that case, HGSS do beat all of the games I've listed here, but some stuff from Generations I (obviously) and II (maybe) would potentially beat them.

Edit 2: Yep!
Gold and Silver were only missing 18 Pokémon from Gen I (starters, fossils, Legendary birds, Mewtwo, Mew) and Celebi (which was released later in Crystal, but Crystal was missing some others, I think - the Mareep line alone makes it lose to GS if all it had over them was Celebi).
So HGSS were 91.7% of the current Generation, while Gold and Silver were 92.4% of the current Generation - Gold and Silver actually win!
which is kind of a red flag that this is an unfair/ineffective metric in its own right but still

 

[Worldie]

Edit: ohhhhh, wait, you mean by percent! Whoops.

Yes, we did mean in % (duh at the gen 1 mention :P ) but yours is an interesting accounting nontheless.

 

[R_N]

Yeah %s isn't the BEST metric in the world though it's always at least an interesting bit of trivia as the generations get larger

 

[Worldie]

Gold and Silver were only missing 18 Pokémon from Gen I (starters, fossils, Legendary birds, Mewtwo, Mew) and Celebi (which was released later in Crystal, but Crystal was missing some others, I think - the Mareep line alone makes it lose to GS if all it had over them was Celebi).
So HGSS were 91.7% of the current Generation, while Gold and Silver were 92.4% of the current Generation - Gold and Silver actually win!
which is kind of a red flag that this is an unfair/ineffective metric in its own right but still

Yeah %s isn't the BEST metric in the world though it's always at least an interesting bit of trivia as the generations get larger

Eh, I think that obviously for the first handful of gens it is indeed a bad metric, but should be a good one for the gens 5 onwards. At that point it's when GameFreaks started to force the "native" mark for official competition, so started to be in their own interest to *eventually* have the entire or close-to the entire non mythical Pokedex available in the last entry of the generation (which is the one where the legendaryes also show up for VGC reasons)

 

[MrHands]

If you're telling me that you'd rather take another 120 € for another 2 games identical to the previous ones, but with Ultra in the title and possibly 30 mins more of gameplay if even, be my guest ;)

Yes.

I bought Sun and was able to play with all the Pokemon pretty much day 1. I didn't need to pay for Nintendo online to access 25% of the content and the games cost less than SwSH did. Even now the original Sun has far more content than SwSh.

When Ultra Sun came out I sold my Sun game to Gamestop for like 15 bucks and purchased Ultra Sun for a net cost of like what, 20 dollars? It's hard to say what Gamefreak's DLC is going to be like but I'm pretty sure it's still going to have way less content than we ended up with in USUM. We clearly got fucked by Gamefreak cutting content that they're now selling back to us.

Now if Gamefreak wants to charge 30 dollars for 100 brand new Pokemon with some nice additions like extra clothes and some battle-frontier gimmicks I'd be totally for that. But making us pay to reverse Dexit? That's some EA level garbage.

 

[R_N]

Yes.

I bought Sun and was able to play with all the Pokemon pretty much day 1. I didn't need to pay for Nintendo online to access 25% of the content and the games cost less than SwSH did. Even now the original Sun has far more content than SwSh.

When Ultra Sun came out I sold my Sun game to Gamestop for like 15 bucks and purchased Ultra Sun for a net cost of like what, 20 dollars? It's hard to say what Gamefreak's DLC is going to be like but I'm pretty sure it's still going to have way less content than we ended up with in USUM. We clearly got fucked by Gamefreak cutting content that they're now selling back to us.

They are literally not selling back cut content at all. The pokemon are in the free update. You can be frustrated with Nintendo's online service being a paid thing now (because it's dumb) but that's not on Gamefreak and not what is happening here.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

They are literally not selling back cut content at all. The pokemon are in the free update. You can be frustrated with Nintendo's online service being a paid thing now (because it's dumb) but that's not on Gamefreak and not what is happening here.

PSN and XBL are also paid online services. They make people pay for them so they can maintain their servers. No one wants the 2011 PSN hack again

 

[R_N]

PSN and XBL are also paid online services. They make people pay for them so they can maintain their servers. No one wants the 2011 PSN hack again

Nintendo literally got hacked earlier this year and I am pretty sure Xbox got hacked during the 360 era as well. & I actually thought Sony also got hacked again in the PS4 era but honestly these past couple years have been a blur.
Being paid does not suddenly provide extra protections nor guarantee they go towards up keep or improvement of services (see also: boy nintendo's services are still not that great except now you pay $20 a year)

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

(see also: boy nintendo's services are still not that great except now you pay $20 a year)

$25 in Canada LOL

 

[earl]

Yeah, even if all Pokémon were in from the start that wouldn’t have changed the fact that the price of home would still be present (and I’m pretty sure home doesn’t need Nintendo online)

 

[chimp]

They are literally not selling back cut content at all. The pokemon are in the free update. You can be frustrated with Nintendo's online service being a paid thing now (because it's dumb) but that's not on Gamefreak and not what is happening here.

Isn't the point of Pokemon the ability to actually catch the Pokemon? Can you really say they're returning if the only way to access them is to have caught them in a previous title and pay for home or have a friend trade it to you?

Game Freak has always been stingy with the way they give out Pokemon. It wasn't fun in Gen 3 and it's not fun in 2020.

 

[R_N]

Isn't the point of Pokemon the ability to actually catch the Pokemon? Can you really say they're returning if the only way to access them is to have caught them in a previous title and pay for home or have a friend trade it to you?

Game Freak has always been stingy with the way they give out Pokemon. It wasn't fun in Gen 3 and it's not fun in 2020.

Which is still different than what people are saying is happening here.

And, as you say, always happened to varying degrees. Gen 3's nonsense is probably the worst of it, but hell even SM only had about....386 pokemon to catch? Out of 800. If you wanted to actually catch more you need to get USUM. But this issue didn't really bother people as much because the pokemon themselves were still in the game, you just needed to rely on transferring or trading.

Yeah, even if all Pokémon were in from the start that wouldn’t have changed the fact that the price of home would still be present (and I’m pretty sure home doesn’t need Nintendo online)

Now Home's pricing. THERE'S a kicker to be sure

 

[chimp]

Which is still different than what people are saying is happening here.

And, as you say, always happened to varying degrees. Gen 3's nonsense is probably the worst of it, but hell even SM only had about....386 pokemon to catch? Out of 800. If you wanted to actually catch more you need to get USUM. But this issue didn't really bother people as much because the pokemon themselves were still in the game, you just needed to rely on transferring or trading.


Now Home's pricing. THERE'S a kicker to be sure

Yeah, though, my dream Pokemon game is one where you can natively catch every single Pokemon. No events... No version exclusives... No bullshit 1% encounter chances. I understand the games have been doing this nonsense since the beginning but I had hoped by 2020 we'd be past it.

 

[Zowayix]

Yeah, though, my dream Pokemon game is one where you can natively catch every single Pokemon. No events... No version exclusives... No bullshit 1% encounter chances. I understand the games have been doing this nonsense since the beginning but I had hoped by 2020 we'd be past it.

Do glitches count?

This is half-joking half-serious, but "obtain any Pokemon" glitch discoveries have come a long way in the last several years (Gen 1 in 2003, Gen 2 in 2007, Gen 3 in 2014). Gen 4 has had ongoing research in progress since the first potential opening was found in 2017, and I'm looking forward to it.