Pokemon Sword & Shield Discussion RD: 15/11/2019 **Official news only**


So uhhh... What mons would you like to get in to benefit the developing metagame? FerroPex has our defensive backbone covered for now, so right now I'm mainly hoping for more Fire types to alleviate the current shortage as well as more bulky Fairy types to take on Weavile better.
I feel that we can have an alternate Fire/Steel that is more attack focused (luckily it seems that the fire starter probably is a Fire/Steel but that could be wrong, god please no more Fire/Fighting) especially if Heatran is gonna be gone this season.
 

So uhhh... What mons would you like to get in to benefit the developing metagame? FerroPex has our defensive backbone covered for now, so right now I'm mainly hoping for more Fire types to alleviate the current shortage as well as more bulky Fairy types to take on Weavile better.
If the rumors regarding the Godzilla throwbacks with TTar, Hydrei and Duralodon are true, perhaps Volcarona could make it back in, and now it could ditch HP Ground completely because there's no Heatran to stop it and tech in Psychic to anihilate both Toxapex and Kommo-o.
Not only that, but it'd also be the best Fire type in the tier and one of the best set up sweepers period.

To top it off, Volcarona would also make a terrific Pokemon to Dynamax as well, becoming both hard to RK and very hard to check without wasting your own Dynamax.

I therefore welcome our new moth overlords were one of its two evolution members revealed in any way.
 
To top it off, Volcarona would also make a terrific Pokemon to Dynamax as well, becoming both hard to RK and very hard to check without wasting your own Dynamax.

I therefore welcome our new moth overlords were one of its two evolution members revealed in any way.
To be fair using your Dynamax to answer enemy's Dynamax doesnt really strike me as a waste but rather a intended use of the mechanic... and one of the reasons i like it for, being able to respond to it with dynamaxing your own check to whatever your enemy dynamaxed on the fly rather than needing to plan it beforehand
 
Alcremie looks like it might be a bulky type too, since his Gigaform is based on "soaking phisical hits and healing back up" so I'd expect its base form to also be similar.
Too bad we already have Clefable covering the fat-fairy role, it would take a lot of boons for a mono-fairy defensive mon to be able to beat out Clefable.

Also, for the first time ever, OU may not have a pink blob (Chansey/Blissey). I wonder how this will affect special attackers in general this generation?
 
Too bad we already have Clefable covering the fat-fairy role, it would take a lot of boons for a mono-fairy defensive mon to be able to beat out Clefable.

Also, for the first time ever, OU may not have a pink blob (Chansey/Blissey). I wonder how this will affect special attackers in general this generation?
By the looks of what we have now, the bulkiest Pokemon on the special side seem to be Snorlax, Umbreon, (AV) Tyranitar, Lord and Saviour Mantine, (Eviolite?) Dusclops, SpDef Bronzong, SpDef Jellicent, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, and Goodra. Almost every single one of these has at least one of two relatively exploitable weaknesses: Volcarona and "HERE COMES THE GIANT FIST!".

dons a Volcarona t-shirt
 
I feel like if Volcarona got in it would probably be broken. We're already debating if Gyarados is busted, and while they attack on different sides of the spectrum, Volc sweeps in a similar way while having basically no defensive checks and an even more absurd array of Max effects (Hurricane, Psychic and Fire Blast are key suspects here). After a QD and a Dynamax, nothing beats it aside from Gyarados at very high health or some dumb shit like Flash Fire Arcanine
 
an even more absurd array of Max effects (Hurricane, Psychic and Fire Blast are key suspects here).
This makes me think... which effects can we expect from the generic Max attacking moves?

We already know moves that have one of the following effects:
- Summon weather (Fire, Water, Rock)
- Summon terrain (Electric, Grass, Fairy)
- Boost one of the user's stats (Steel, Flying)
- Lower one of the target's stats (Normal, Dark)

We have four weathers, four terrains and five stats (not counting Evasion and Accuracy) that can be modified.

4 weathers + 4 terrains + 5 boosts + 5 drops = 18 different secondary effects.

So all types can be covered with that classification. There's no need to expect anything else IMO.

(Thankfully. For a moment I was fearing that the Max Ghost move was going to put a curse on the target... that being said, Dark and whatever type will lower the target's Defense can be very difficult to wall, as you can't Unaware your way through it)
 
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I feel like if Volcarona got in it would probably be broken. We're already debating if Gyarados is busted, and while they attack on different sides of the spectrum, Volc sweeps in a similar way while having basically no defensive checks and an even more absurd array of Max effects (Hurricane, Psychic and Fire Blast are key suspects here). After a QD and a Dynamax, nothing beats it aside from Gyarados at very high health or some dumb shit like Flash Fire Arcanine
The dexit list is still far from complete at its current state imo. We should wait it out until a more complete list comes out, then we should discuss whenever it's broken or not.
 
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I feel like if Volcarona got in it would probably be broken. We're already debating if Gyarados is busted, and while they attack on different sides of the spectrum, Volc sweeps in a similar way while having basically no defensive checks and an even more absurd array of Max effects (Hurricane, Psychic and Fire Blast are key suspects here). After a QD and a Dynamax, nothing beats it aside from Gyarados at very high health or some dumb shit like Flash Fire Arcanine
Mantine is a super hard answer to Volcarona and its confirmed.

Do you guys think the Alola forms will be transferable? These are the ones who have Alola Forms and are confirmed: Vulpix, Diglett, and Raichu.
 
I feel like if Volcarona got in it would probably be broken. We're already debating if Gyarados is busted, and while they attack on different sides of the spectrum, Volc sweeps in a similar way while having basically no defensive checks and an even more absurd array of Max effects (Hurricane, Psychic and Fire Blast are key suspects here). After a QD and a Dynamax, nothing beats it aside from Gyarados at very high health or some dumb shit like Flash Fire Arcanine
Ya know except for the fact that Volcarona still takes 50% from SR. I'd say that's enough to balance it for the most part.

I'm more worried about something like Pex which already is hard to break through even with the likes of Lando and Excadrill and such.
 
I feel like Megas aside, anything that was in LGPE will be fine. So all original 151 and the Alolan Forms.
I'm divided on this.

While we're sorta used to the enormous gen 1 emphasis of GF, no game had "the entire gen 1 pokedex" available in a game.

I personally don't think Alolan forms will be transferable, and I also think they won't make the Chansey like transferable either (I'd think it's the laziest but also most effective way to avoid the overflow of Chansey/Blissey HP in Dinamax) nor the Porygon one (due to requiring two items and two trades to evolve) but hey, I'd like to be proved wrong.
 
I'm divided on this.

While we're sorta used to the enormous gen 1 emphasis of GF, no game had "the entire gen 1 pokedex" available in a game.

I personally don't think Alolan forms will be transferable, and I also think they won't make the Chansey like transferable either (I'd think it's the laziest but also most effective way to avoid the overflow of Chansey/Blissey HP in Dinamax) nor the Porygon one (due to requiring two items and two trades to evolve) but hey, I'd like to be proved wrong.
It's true enough, but with models being limited as it is; I think they'd rather take advantage of the fact that there's a large proportion practically already done in LGPE. And clearly this Pokédex is going to be very different and a bigger deal than before.
We're not even entirely sure what form the Pokédex will take, to be honest. For all we know it'll have a post-game upgrade that will include things like starters and the remaining Gen 1 cast.
 

So uhhh... What mons would you like to get in to benefit the developing metagame? FerroPex has our defensive backbone covered for now, so right now I'm mainly hoping for more Fire types to alleviate the current shortage as well as more bulky Fairy types to take on Weavile better.
There also seems to be a shortage of Bug Pkm (Golisopod, Vikavolt, Vespiquen, and Butterfly, if I recall right). I hope the creators will surprise us as they did in gen 5 and gen 7 since the Bug Pkm were useful in their own way. Speaking of Golisopod. It would be nice to see its ability getting a buff, say, you have the option whether or not you want to switch it out. It would make more sense dex wise as it's described rather as a tactician than a coward in disguise; after all, there's not really a difference between Golisopod's and Wimpod's ability, except their names, of course.

Anyway, it would be cool to finally see a non legendary Bug Pkm able to set up Trick Room! It would add more diversity since Bug mostly relies on Sticky Webs. Maybe, we'll see a Bug/Psychic or a new Bug/Ghost Pkm this time?

While not really a benefit to the metagame, it would make sense to give Queenly Majesty to Vespiqueen or, if Masquerain will make an appearance, to give it Drizzle. Seriously, it literally has rain in its name!

Then, we have Hippowdown. It's good as it is, but Shore Up would be a nice addition, and it would also make sense.

Now, I noticed we have many Pkm who can summon weather. But what about terrains? I don't think the Tapus will return in the Galar region, but maybe we can expect some non legendary Pkm able to set up terrains through an ability?

On another note. Gen 7 offered us pretty useful Pkm, with a major focus on Bug, Poison, Grass, and Fairy, which are all good in different metagames. So, I hope less used types will still get some new useful additions.

Last but not least, in almost any gen, we had a trio or a quartet of legendary Pkm who all had a theme in their respective gen. If we get another new group of non uber legendary Pkm sharing a theme, maybe, this time, the creators will focus on Dragon or Ghost? We already had Flying, Psychic, Fighting, and Fairy. But so far, no dragons or any ghosts. Dragons seem to have deep folklore in Britain, and Ghosts represent the supernatural. Apart from that, I think we can expect many new Fairy Pkm since fairy too have lots of folklore in Britain; after all, you have Tolkien and Spencer's Fairie Queene, an allegorical work in praise of Queen Elizabeth 1, and fairytales in general. Speaking of fairytales, wouldn't it be nice to hear a Pkm version of fairytales or to be in some sort of a fairytale? There's one place from the Galar region, which gives me some Alice in Wonderland vibes.
 
While not really a benefit to the metagame, it would make sense to give Queenly Majesty to Vespiqueen or, if Masquerain will make an appearance, to give it Drizzle. Seriously, it literally has rain in its name!
This is just a personal speculation, but if Dynamax is as vulnerable to Fake Out as I expect, i'd not be surprised to see additional iteration of Dazzling/Queenly Majesty in this gen, as it's unlikely to see a return of the "surge" abilities of Tapus to get that istant psychic terrain.
 
This is just a personal speculation, but if Dynamax is as vulnerable to Fake Out as I expect, i'd not be surprised to see additional iteration of Dazzling/Queenly Majesty in this gen, as it's unlikely to see a return of the "surge" abilities of Tapus to get that istant psychic terrain.
In that case, some Pkm like Tsareena would be more useful as it can learn Feint. Both its ability and move will strongly support your dynamaxed Pkm of choice and makes it hard to play around it, I guess.
True, I can see that. Would be a nice opportunity to give Illuminate an effect for battle. The opponent is so blinded by the light that it can't use any priority moves!
 
Illuminate would probably get some hax side-effect like "Intimidate but lowers accuracy". Don't want.
Rather unlikely. Already, it's confirmed that some changes will be made, for example: Moody. It's likely getting nerfed. They've already done so with Parental Bond and Gale Wings.
If Illuminate would get a buff, I don't see why they should allow you to lower accuracy since it's rather uncompetitive, especially in VGC, and too many people would complain, which they would likely try to avoid. Plus, they could have done so with Dazzling but didn't. Instead, it has the same effect as Queenly Majesty.
If we were to ignore Illuminate's potential to attract Pkm/or make Pkm visible, I'd say Dazzling and Illuminate could be quite similar. Come too close and fast at the Pkm, and you get dazzled, thus preventing you from successfully landing a hit with a priority move.
 
I feel like Megas aside, anything that was in LGPE will be fine. So all original 151 and the Alolan Forms.
I know we all like to scream about le genwunner pandering, but frankly I doubt every Kanto mon will make it. In fact, I'll be surprised if even 100 make it. While Gen 1 does have the highest number of Pokemon confirmed thus far, it's becoming obvious the gap between generations isn't going to be anywhere near as absurd as some of the ultra cynics/doomers were professing, for they are pretty evenly spread thus far with only Hoenn and Sinnoh being a little behind (the latter of which could be evidence for Gen 4 remakes), but that's besides the point. If all 151 do make it, it won't be all at once: Chances are only some will available in the regional dex, and then there'll be some kind of postgame thing where you can get the rest, albeit with no dex entries ie SM. GF has shown they'll cut things from LGPE as evidenced by the death of megas, so I don't see how the entirety of the Kanto gang is guaranteed just because they were in Let's Go.

Ya know except for the fact that Volcarona still takes 50% from SR. I'd say that's enough to balance it for the most part.

I'm more worried about something like Pex which already is hard to break through even with the likes of Lando and Excadrill and such.
We've done some testing, and while he's definitely Toxapex, he's not quite broken due to the highly offensive nature of the meta thanks to Dynamaxing. Some old checks are gone, but with meta shifts and cuts previously sidelined or powercrept mons have been able to rise to challenge The Pex like Jolteon, Dugtrio, Diggersby, offensive Mew, Espeon and Roserade. As for Volc, its rocks weakness is something I didn't consider admittedly. At this point, let's just wait and see if it gets confirmed.
 
I know we all like to scream about le genwunner pandering, but frankly I doubt every Kanto mon will make it. In fact, I'll be surprised if even 100 make it. While Gen 1 does have the highest number of Pokemon confirmed thus far, it's becoming obvious the gap between generations isn't going to be anywhere near as absurd as some of the ultra cynics/doomers were professing, for they are pretty evenly spread thus far with only Hoenn and Sinnoh being a little behind (the latter of which could be evidence for Gen 4 remakes), but that's besides the point. If all 151 do make it, it won't be all at once: Chances are only some will available in the regional dex, and then there'll be some kind of postgame thing where you can get the rest, albeit with no dex entries ie SM. GF has shown they'll cut things from LGPE as evidenced by the death of megas, so I don't see how the entirety of the Kanto gang is guaranteed just because they were in Let's Go.
In regards to the point about 'some will be in the regional dex, some will be postgame'; that's exactly what I meant, sorry for any confusion. I personally think the exact form this will take is similar to SM where everything is in the dex but certain Pokémon like Scyther, Riolu etc aren't until aftergame, but I think leaving off a ton till postgame is inevitable no matter how it happens.

I feel my theory is still tight despite the lack of Megas for two reasons:-
1) Dynamax. Quite obviously it's the new toy and Megas existing would distract from that. Hell, from what we actually know about Dynamax and Gigantamax; Megas in battle are just objectively surperior so that would very very easily lead to such an overshadow. If they were creating a form change gimmick which is a lot more limited and balanced and want focus on it; why would they keep in Megas? Especially when they have an opportunity when they're cutting things anyway.

2) The point of my saying that all Kanto stuff can come back relies on models for all 151 already being on the Switch. So if you were to argue this for Megas, there's one huge problem right there: there's Mega Evolutions that aren't in Kanto. Quite a lot of them in fact. So either you're gonna have to put extra work in by creating models for more Megas - which nullifies the entire point of transferring all the Gen 1 Pokémon over because the models already exist - or you just bring in some Megas and not others, which is especially odd when you've got certain Mega-capable confirmed Pokémon like Lucario and Tyranitar present in the game. Every Kanto Pokémon is in LGPE, and every Alolan Form is in LGPE -- but not every Mega is.

A point connected to both of those is the theory that some Kanto Megas might actually be in the game in the form of being retconned into Gigantamax forms. Obviously so far this is baseless, but the possibility still exists -- the black dragon-type Charizard with blue flames that's a Mega Evolution isn't going to be in the game, but that doesn't mean the black dragon-type Charizard with blue flames that's a Gigantamax form won't be. I'm not sure if this will happen, but we can wait and see.


And obviously on Point 2, there is one glaring point: if the point of easiness of bringing over every Mega is nullified by all Megas not being in LGPE, could the same point not be said about bringing back all Gen 1 Pokémon when many of those have other-gen Evolutions and Pre-evolutions? To which I say... yeah, good point actually, we could see some of those like Porygon and Tangela unfortunately left out. I would still say that for instance bringing in Mr. Mime and having to create a new Mime Jr. model would still ultimately be less work than another 2-stage not connected to Kanto like Munna or Dwebble, but the point does still stand.
That said we have seen a surprising number of other-gen evolution Kanto Pokémon already -- Eevee, Onix, Rhyhorn... I would argue that for the most part they are pretty popular and iconic though. I mean, you're gonna cherrypick some of the fan favourite Pokémon and not include Eevee? You crazy or something?


I'll also add that my point isn't about Game Freak's consistent focus on Gen 1 'pandering' - though, certainly, general Gen 1 clout and popularity is a point in this theory's favour - rather, the point is purely that models already exist in LGPE, and hence would be a lot easier to bring over than Mareep or Barboach. This is about ease rather than favouritism.
 
There's one reason I don't think the models from Let's Go would actually apply to Gen 8.

As far as I knew Let's Go used the same model the DS games had, the famous "futureproofed" models.

The impression I had from the interviews in the last period was that the reason they had to remake the models because when factoring in Dynamax increasing the size of the model to absurd levels, there was a necessity of much more polygons in order to not have the giant Pokemon look bad when the camera moves closer.

Now, honestly, they've contradicted themselves in their interviews so many times (on both models and dexit reasons) that I don't know if those were real or excuses, but it would rule out the "they already had the models from Let's Go" as a reasoning to include all the gen 1 pokedex.
 

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