Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

[breh]

Also what do you mean "it has max airstream anyways"

4 attacks is the only way gyarados can get choice scarf; thus, scarf always means bounce on the set. again gonna reiterate that scarf gyarados is a bad set and nobody would use this willingly in any competitive context were it not forced on them. thinking over it more cb 4 attacks is probably ok (this is more fair to spam imo) so it really just should be scarf that is incompatible with multi-turn moves

Maybe breh will provide a summary

I like summarizing this but it destroys my sleep schedule up doing it when I go back and forth between the rands room over minutia lol

https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-s...9f4a3e6#diff-8d777f385d3dfec8815d20f7496026dc
https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-s...bad3377#diff-8d777f385d3dfec8815d20f7496026dc
https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-s...1090454#diff-8d777f385d3dfec8815d20f7496026dc

In the past couple days (although I skipped a few):

Moves

Hitmonchan: -Fire Punch, +Stone Edge
Blissey: exists
Vaporeon: -Roar, +Heal Bell
Jolteon: +Protect
Noctowl: -Whirlwind
Togekiss: -Defog, -Flamethrower, + Aura Sphere, +Dazzling Gleam, +Trick. This will get Fire Blast taped over Aura Sphere if it has Aura Sphere and Dazzling Gleam
Corsola: -Light Screen, -Reflect, + Power Gem, +Toxic
Corvinight: +Defog
Corvinight-Gmax: gone thank fuck
Cramorant: -Hurricane, +Brave Bird
Celebi: +U-turn
Obstagoon: -Gunk Shot
Jirachi: +Trick
Bronzong: -Body Press, -Psychic, +Earthquake
Throh: -Payback, +Knock Off
Aromatisse: -the whole fucking thing bar moonblast, + Calm Mind, Protect, Toxic, Wish
Turtonator: -Dragon Pulse, -Earthquake, +Body Press, +Toxic. This will get Earthquake taped over Body Press if it has Shell Smash and Body Press
Tapus: exist
Octillery: -Protect, -Surf, +Hydro Pump
Gothitelle: -the whole set bar psychic, +Nasty Plot, +Shadow Ball, +Thunderbolt, +Trick
Pangoro: +Drain Punch

other

Calm Mind is now rejected when the user has Trick Room
Rock Blast is now rejected if the user has speed setup moves or less than two damaging moves (?_?)
Trick Room is no longer rejected if the user has Light Screen or Reflect
Body Slam is now rejected if the user has Toxic or Trick
Fire Fang is now rejected if the user has Fire Blast and no setup moves
Psyshock is rejected if the user has Psychic
Hitmonchan has been fiddled with to make it not receive Stone Edge without having Mach Punch first
Jolteon will not receive Shadow Ball if it has Protect. If it has Protect, it will get Magnet (???????)
Foul Play is now rejected if the user has Knock Off (I imagine this is for Sableye, but I think Foul Play is infinitely more valuable here?)
Meteor Mash is now rejected if the user does not yet have Extreme Speed
Dazzling Gleam is now rejected if the user has Air Slash but does not have Trick
Fake Out is now rejected if the user has Parting Shot
Substitute is now rejected if the user has Calm Mind in its movepool but does not yet have it
Swarm is now rejected if the user has recovery moves
Moody is now rejected if the user is Octillery (this was only significantly worse than Glalie because it didn't have subtect and literally only because of this)
Shadow Tag is now rejected if the user is Gothitelle (reading incessant STALL GOTH IS UBERS SET posts ran somebody's patience out lol)
Parting Shot will now allow for Choice Band; Fake Out and Rapid Spin will reject it.
Shuckle with Sticky Web will receive Mental Herb
Unfezant now gets Scope Lens (it used to get HDB occasionally)
Darmanitan-G now gets Choice Scarf (as mentioned in previous posts, this is not ideal)
Weakness to Ground-type no longer factors into whether a Pokemon gets Heavy Duty Boots
Rock weak Pokemon with Recovery and no setup moves now can get Heavy Duty Boots
More Air Balloon conditions (does literally anybody like sturdy air balloon togedemaru? cause I sure don't)
Pokemon with HP drain moves can now get LO more easily

Uber level is lowered to 72. Wobbuffet is set to 80. Glalie also set to 72.

also pls remove scarf primarina it's too fucking slow and is actively trash

e: also nasty plot / parting shot / dpulse / psychic thievul; setup moves should reject parting shot and u-turn and vice versa

lead sash rapid spin is still a thing and still awful. I imagine the same is true of defog but I'm too lazy to check

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Is life orb guts supposed to be a thing?

Because I just got a lo guts conk with mach punch/drain punch/knock off/bulk up.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

yes that's intentional

 

[ascriptmaster]

Glalie also set to 72.

I know this is because of the unreleased mons being set to Uber level but pointing out Glalie specifically is just funny to me

 

[breh]

rock silvally @ swords dance / multi attack / psycho fangs / parting shot

pshot + setup machine broke

also rock / psychic is awful coverage but silvally's movepool is apparently too shallow to include earthquake so god knows what you put there

 

[Adeleine]

runerigus' critical hit shadow claw did less than 50% to noivern and i wanted to turn my computer off

i know eq as only attack when the mon has another stab sounds awful, but 9/10 times i've gotten this mon, claw was a wasted move slot. (that one time they had a xatu or something) and it has wisp/haze/rocks/tspikes to be useful against mons not afraid of eq, which is/are usually better than claw against them anyway. maybe it should lose claw?

i checked its movepool for other potentially useful things. memento and disable seemed to be the most interesting, but it gets rock tomb (which hits fliers ignoring eq and provides marginal support) and body press i guess

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

runerigus' critical hit shadow claw did less than 50% to noivern and i wanted to turn my computer off

i know eq as only attack when the mon has another stab sounds awful, but 9/10 times i've gotten this mon, claw was a wasted move slot. (that one time they had a xatu or something) and it has wisp/haze/rocks/tspikes to be useful against mons not afraid of eq, which is/are usually better than claw against them anyway. maybe it should lose claw?

i checked its movepool for other potentially useful things. memento and disable seemed to be the most interesting, but it gets rock tomb (which hits fliers ignoring eq and provides marginal support) and body press i guess

It used to have body press but it didn't really do anything other than hit darks, since it's overall worse than eq vs literally every other non-levitate foe. Shadow claw is at least proficient at hitting Ghost-weak foes, which Runerigus would presumably want to hit. Rune's physical movepool is just pretty lame as a whole and I'd rather not give it rock Tomb. Removing shadow claw would be ok but then rune would be basically unable to touch any and every special flyer period.

 

[Adeleine]

It used to have body press but it didn't really do anything other than hit darks, since it's overall worse than eq vs literally every other non-levitate foe. Shadow claw is at least proficient at hitting Ghost-weak foes, which Runerigus would presumably want to hit. Rune's physical movepool is just pretty lame as a whole and I'd rather not give it rock Tomb. Removing shadow claw would be ok but then rune would be basically unable to touch any and every special flyer period.

then id support just removing claw, or replacing with memento/disable if you want it to do more things. clicking hazards (even tspikes) is better use of time against far majority of fliers anyway, plus normal/dark/roost-using (if noivern can outstall infinite crits, i assume any non-psychic can beat it) special fliers dont even mind at all

e: i've played around 10 matches with rune and wanted tspikes over claw every single match. haze is situational, but i've found it less situational than claw, and losing tspikes for claw pisses me off.

also i don't agree with your general dislike of memento, and rune can use its three immunities and decent bulk to annoy a substantial amount of mons that can only hit it decently with one move, but details

 

[breh]

memento is already (imo) a wasted slot on every defensive pokemon that gets it and I don't think disable is helpful either since runerigus doesn't have the ability to actually abuse disable unlike other pokemon that lock moves. if you're dead set on removing shadow claw (which I don't think is worth it given how on and off toxic spikes / haze can be), just leave it with 4 moves.

also worth noting that dynamaxing exists and runerigus is one of the few physical ghost types using not shadow sneak as STAB, which can be useful in a pinch

does vespiquen actually need u-turn? I got one without defog and it is the worst feeling possible

blastoise with rapid spin is weird. bank is out so toxic is good now. currently, it gets 4 attacks av, which is trash.

 

[breh]

leech seed should reject lead sash

substitute should reject lead sash

 

[Adeleine]

i kinda like lead sash + sub. great flexibility on starting position, can either go for sub or can attack confidently. had a toxicroak with it recently that helped a lot towards the win. maybe others like it less though, i don’t know

 

[DracoRage]

Assault Vest Duraludon is a decisively trash set - you can try to change my opinion tho, at least it hits hard, unlike the other Assault Vest trashmon - Blastoise. With Rapid Spin, Scald, Ice Beam and EQ and 80 offenses, this set barely hits anything hard, unless the opponent is stupid enough to stay/switch into something that is hit 4x by those moves. At least with leftovers you can toxic something.

Early Bird Defog Shiftry. I can kindaaaaaa understand that Defog is a good move (though not in Shiftry IMO), but Early Bird does absolutely nothing for Shiftry. It's already immune to the powder moves, and Hypnosis is the only other move that hits it with sleep. Dynamax with Heat Wave gives you the Clorophyll boost and you can hit hard in a pinch (for leftovers sets) or become a wicked setup sweeper (in nasty plot sets).

 

[pisxel]

Unfortunately, Jolteon doesn't get Signal Beam due to it being dexited much like Hidden Power which leaves Jolteon at a place where it has little coverage. However, I don't think + Choice Specs should even have a chance of being a thing. Instead, it could get Hyper Voice, which while it is Normal-type, is still better than a one time Toxic and switch out. Happy to hear any criticism on this.

 

[Zaide]

View attachment 226625

Unfortunately, Jolteon doesn't get Signal Beam due to it being dexited much like Hidden Power which leaves Jolteon at a place where it has little coverage. However, I don't think + Choice Specs should even have a chance of being a thing. Instead, it could get Hyper Voice, which while it is Normal-type, is still better than a one time Toxic and switch out. Happy to hear any criticism on this.

The thing with hyper voice is that it really doesn't add much to ghost/electric coverage, to which only Diggersby is immune. Only Shiftry, Hydreigon, Heliolisk, Drampa and Morpeko resist that coverage. Obviously, Hyper Voice means it would get perfect neutral coverage (allowing it to hit the 6 above mentionned pokémon), so that's a thing going for that.

Another option that I was thinking about, instead of toxic, was yawn. While I understand it lacks synergy with electric terrain (assuming you dynamaxed and used an electric type move), you're basically forcing your opponent to switch while you also switch. But still not sure it would be better than either toxic or hyper voice overall.

 

[pisxel]

The thing with hyper voice is that it really doesn't add much to ghost/electric coverage, to which only Diggersby is immune. Only Shiftry, Hydreigon, Heliolisk, Drampa and Morpeko resist that coverage. Obviously, Hyper Voice means it would get perfect neutral coverage (allowing it to hit the 6 above mentionned pokémon), so that's a thing going for that.

Another option that I was thinking about, instead of toxic, was yawn. While I understand it lacks synergy with electric terrain (assuming you dynamaxed and used an electric type move), you're basically forcing your opponent to switch while you also switch. But still not sure it would be better than either toxic or hyper voice overall.

Ah I see what you mean by that, really is unfortunate that Jolteon lost most of its coverage. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[DracoRage]

Why is Eldegoss without Rapid Spin a thing? This guy is basically a joke mon in randoms format, at least with spin it can do something on your team, aside from MAYBE putting to sleep something.

 

[Adeleine]

Given the power of sleep powder, rapid spin, and aromatherapy, charm is probably worth removing unless there's a reason for it I'm unaware of.

Forcing a mon to have hazard removal as a slot would make it very situational, but removing charm would increase the chance it gets RS and/or one of those other two powerful support moves.

 

[DracoRage]

Kyurem is lately getting ice beam instead of freeze dry. Ice Beam is an inferior option 90% of the time, the added damage isn't worth it being locked into, instead of hitting Water/Flying mons like Gyarados and Mantine super-effectively.

 

[tennisace]

- zen mode galarian darm shouldn't be choice band, since when you switch out you lose zen mode and you're back to reg darm which is inferior to gorilla tactics. change it to something like sub/belly drum/ice punch/fire punch @ salac or smth, basically eiscue with fire type. it's a gimmick but at least give it the one set gorilla darm can't run.

- thievul should be unburden, i just got stakeout and theivul's "best" use is to be super fast NP sweeper. np/dark pulse/psychic/grass knot @ a berry works.

- every time i see life orb conkeldurr i want to delete this world, why isn't guts + flame orb like a 100% drop rate

- PLEASE give steelix curse > dd on the rock head sets, DD does not let it outspeed anything even remotely fast. like, a vaporeon outsped it at +1. it's pathetic and a waste of a teamslot.

 

[Tmi489]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8randombattle-1079257075
A latias? (is this a bug or intentional)

- thievul should be unburden, i just got stakeout and theivul's "best" use is to be super fast NP sweeper. np/dark pulse/psychic/grass knot @ a berry works.

idk randbats that much but stakeout could force a switch from a psychic, allowing theivul to cripple/ko an otherwise faster mon without activating an item

 

[breh]

stakeout theivul can be valuable because if you bring it on something that it threatens, you are really restricted wrt switching around it cause it maims or OHKOes whatever switches in. it's a weak pokemon and it needs whatever power it can get. unburden berry sounds good in theory but I don't see it working well in practice when you're basically using liepard with GK and psychic. what do you even use? short of sitrus it's all inconvenient to proc and ultimately you're dropping a LO boost that makes a very weak mon using a low BP STAB move less awful.

for reference, its damage output with dark pulse is comparable to that of titans like meowth using double edge.

LO guts conk is a great status absorber, but I'm not gonna miss it too much if it's removed

I still like dd steelix because against teams that are sufficiently bad at handling it, worn down, or very slow, steelix at +2 can sweep, or at least break a couple pokemon on its way out, and getting to +2 is not unrealistic (switch in on an electric type or something that can't /really/ hurt it, dd as they switch, dd again as their check doesn't KO because randbats teams are not ideal, then pray your opponent has nothing over 200 speed). if you really want to remove it just remove it entirely without replacing it with curse, which is kind of shit

 

[Adeleine]

Kyurem is lately getting ice beam instead of freeze dry. Ice Beam is an inferior option 90% of the time, the added damage isn't worth it being locked into, instead of hitting Water/Flying mons like Gyarados and Mantine super-effectively.

Disagree that ice beam doesn't deserve a slot. Being able to spam 135bp (after stab) good coverage move is really useful on a specs mon with no other spammable buttons (draco, focus, earth power? i think not). 105bp is not quite the same. and water/flyings are taking huge damage from specs ice beam anyway.

- PLEASE give steelix curse > dd on the rock head sets, DD does not let it outspeed anything even remotely fast. like, a vaporeon outsped it at +1. it's pathetic and a waste of a teamslot.

I remember getting curselix in... gen7 rands i'm pretty sure? i also remember it uniformly dropping in two hits to whatever special attacker(s) opp had handy. steelix has a tendency to be a waste of teamslot no matter what it does (except for SR), being slow and weak and specially vulnerable. but i think posing a long-term threat in 2-3 turns is better than rarely being more than special attacker bait as curse

I don't really understand LO conk either, doesn't flame orb set absorb status just as well? and prevents it from getting a more crippling toxic/para

 

[DracoRage]

Disagree that ice beam doesn't deserve a slot. Being able to spam 135bp (after stab) good coverage move is really useful on a specs mon with no other spammable buttons (draco, focus, earth power? i think not). 105bp is not quite the same. and water/flyings are taking huge damage from specs ice beam anyway.

I picked water/flying mons as a simple example. There's more prominent targets, and particularly, ALL WATER TYPES to be worried about when you're locked into ice beam. In random battles strong coverage > strong moves 100% of the time.

 

[Fractal-Knight]

Currently my biggest complaint comes from SWSH Random battle formats using pokemon and moves that are unreleased... having sets you can't even make in Nat Dex format leads to a lot of losses from moves that you legitimately can't use yet...

Like Scald on Raikou... Nasty Plot Tornadus... you can get swept or lose a key pokemon because of a move that you have no way of knowing existed...

If you're going to allow them in Random Battles you should rename it from SWSH Random to HOME Random or something of that sort to indicate that it's not just SWSH only pokemon but sets you can have in HOME, and allow the updated movepools in Nat Dex so players will be able to see what the possible movesets will be

 

[breh]

can gmax lax just be removed